Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:29, 12 February 2014

You can help expand this article with text translated from the corresponding article in Persian. Click for important translation instructions. View a machine-translated version of the Persian article. Machine translation, like DeepL or Google Translate, is a useful starting point for translations, but translators must revise errors as necessary and confirm that the translation is accurate, rather than simply copy-pasting machine-translated text into the English Misplaced Pages. Do not translate text that appears unreliable or low-quality. If possible, verify the text with references provided in the foreign-language article. You must provide copyright attribution in the edit summary accompanying your translation by providing an interlanguage link to the source of your translation. A model attribution edit summary is Content in this edit is translated from the existing Persian Misplaced Pages article at ]; see its history for attribution. You may also add the template {{Translated|fa|کوه دماوند}} to the talk page. For more guidance, see Misplaced Pages:Translation.

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Mountains Top‑importance Mountains portal This article is part of WikiProject Mountains, a project to systematically present information on mountains. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see Contributing FAQ for more information), or visit the project page where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.MountainsWikipedia:WikiProject MountainsTemplate:WikiProject MountainsMountain Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Volcanoes Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Volcanoes, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of volcanoes, volcanology, igneous petrology, and related subjects on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.VolcanoesWikipedia:WikiProject VolcanoesTemplate:WikiProject VolcanoesWikiProject Volcanoes Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Iran This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Damavand in Afghanistan?

Isn't there a mount in Afghanistan also named Damavand?

First ascent

Data on first ascent needs referencing. Abjad 21:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Still needs referencing:

Damāvand was climbed by Iranians thousands of years ago, by shepherds and such.

I believe you. Is there evidence? Haakondahl 13:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I updated this info, basing on SummitPost site. The article there references to other sources, which are not available to me. Would be great if someone double-checked it. Emesik (talk) 18:24, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Elevation

In most records the elevation of Mount Damavand is 5671m, if you serch "Damavand 5671" you will see hundreds of thoes.http://www.summitpost.org/image/326701//damavand-5671m.html I give you some examples: http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view_rec.php?id=17099

http://www.hommes-et-montagnes.fr/pages/voyage-iran-monts-elbourz-et-ascension-du-damavand-(5671m).htm http://www.mountain-bookshop.de/de/dept_978.html http://alpinum.at/viewtopic.php?t=1687 http://pagesperso-orange.fr/toulaho/damavand/damavand2.htm http://www.zone-2000.net/arhiv/05/240damav/doc11.htm http://pagesperso-orange.fr/toulaho/damavand/damavand2.htm http://alpinum.at/viewtopic.php?t=1687 http://www.diamir.de/reseller.php? .... Do you need moor facts to beleive that the Damavand elevation is more than 5610 m ?!

Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.198.61.94 (talk) 09:12, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Damavand is not higher than 5610m and that's all there is to it. 5671m is on websites that copy the traditional elevation, based on older measurement. The primary sources, official Iranian, a 2007 GPS measurement by a very experienced GPS user, and SRTM data all agree that 5610m is more accurate. See the footnote at Mount Damavand. Viewfinder (talk) 19:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

-Usualy the facts and figures by Statistical Centre of Iran is not so accurat and relaiable.

-Your extrnal link1 is broken ,if you mean this Mt.Damavand GPS measurement link , it does state that Damavand elevation could be up to 5660m which is much higher than 5610m and it is not a copy of the traditional elevation, but the latest measurement 31 Aug 2007 .

-We better believe on more accurate and relaiable sourses like NASA , which indicates the elevation of Mt.Damavand is 5670m.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.198.52.186 (talk) 11:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

It is not so fair to use the expression like "The most frequently given elevation on the web, 5,671 m, is definitely wrong" in the footnotes , it sounds that you would like to dictate your words to wikipedia , and by deleting others posts it means you do not like to listen to any other views !! I believe that we should have the right to answer your post in any page you comment about Mount Damavand Elevation, otherwise it looks like a censorship media and not the Misplaced Pages ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.198.52.124 (talk) 15:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I have deleted the copy of the above comments that was added to the main article. The right place to discuss the elevation is here. I would rather trust what appears to be an official Iranian information site, which is probably based on an accurate and up to date measurement by the Iranian national survey, than trust web sites that simply copy the older elevation. Neither of the external links are broken. From the first, click on GPS Landmarks. When I created the link, it stated only the 5626m GPS reading. The 5645m reading was added subsequently. The 5671m is not based on any GPS reading. The second link is to a report by a hiker who has used GPS to measure hundreds of mountains around the world. This report supports 5623m (5612m when adjusted to the Caspian Sea reference point) and clearly discredits 5671m. Finally, 5671m is incompatible with NASA SRTM data, where the highest three arc second cell is less than 5600 metres. This is not consistent with a high point of significantly more than 5610m, and definitely not consistent with 5671m.

Therefore, my sources are primary sources, containing information based on modern measurements. The websites that support 5671m are copying each other and the older elevation. There is no evidence that they are based on any up to date primary source or accurate measurement. Viewfinder (talk) 18:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Incidentally, if you search on "Ulugh Muztagh 7723" you will get many hits, even though Ulugh Muztagh was accurately measured in 1985. Viewfinder (talk) 19:32, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone tell me when and how Mount Damavand was measured at 5671 metres? It was measured at much closer to the official 5610 metres by a Norwegian professor and GPS expert in 2007. Viewfinder (talk) 15:47, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

The 5671 metre elevation for Damavand is one of many old and inaccurate measurements that have been disproved by modern GPS measurements, but, like viruses, continue to get reproduced on the internet by authors, including authors who work for NASA and the CIA, who copy each other but supply no primary sources. These elevations should not by supported by Misplaced Pages. If we incorporate 5671m into the infobox, we will have to restore inaccurate values to many other mountain infoboxes, that would not be right. Still, there may be a case for making the footnote more neutral. On the specific subject of Damavand, I think there may be some vested interest in the claim that Damavand is higher than nearby and similar Mount Elbrus. Viewfinder (talk) 09:27, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I have checked for further GPS readings from the summit.

• http://www.ii.uib.no/~petter/mountains/5000mtn/Ararat/damavand-trip.html (12 August 2007; 5623m on summit, -17m at nearby Caspian Sea which has an accepted height of -28m)
• http://damavandmt.blogspot.com/2006/07/damavand-mt-south-face-by-gps.html This link was sent to me in 2006 and now appears to be dead, but I downloaded it at the time and it showed a summit GPS reading of 5626m
• http://damavandmt.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/damavand-elevation.html (31 August 2007; 5630m and 5645m on two separate devices.)

The third site strongly upholds the 5671m reading but gives no primary source; the NASA sources are not primary and have been copied from other sources by NASA employees. NASA's SRTM and ASTER data are both consistent with the official 5610m. The average of the two readings is closer to 5610m than 5671m.

So we have 4 GPS readings: 5623m, 5626m, 5630m and 5645m. The first three are in fairly close agreement; the fourth is out of line. The first suggests that there is a consistent 10m error in the geoid model used by hand held GPS devices in this area, implicitly upholding the official 5610m.

The 5610m can no longer be found at http://www.sci.org.ir/portal/faces/public/sci_en/sci_en.Glance/sci_en.land, this is now dead but still appears on this official site. I cannot find any geographic information at the new ISI site. Viewfinder (talk) 12:31, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I have checked Misplaced Pages in several other languages, and almost all of them have accepted 5610m and hence the reliability of the given sources. Please don't let's revert to 5671m, which is less compatible with the GPS readings given at than 5610m. The 5645m GPS reading claimed by the above link is out of line with 3 other GPS readings and should therefore be regarded as suspect. Viewfinder (talk) 16:49, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Based on my own measurement, 5610 meters is 100% wrong. Surely it is 5671 meters. Farhoudk (talk) 11:36, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

When and how did you measure it? Viewfinder (talk) 18:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Protection

I've full protected the article for three days due to the ongoing edit war. Please discuss the issue instead of continually reverting. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:34, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I have discussed the issue in some length on the talk page. The problem is that my adversaries do not care to respond. They care only to edit both the main article and several others on which the height is mentioned. Viewfinder (talk) 16:53, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 6 January 2014

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please switch
and the highest peak in Iran, has a special place in Persian mythology and folklore.
with
and the highest peak in Iran, and has a special place in Persian mythology and folklore. buffbills7701 00:38, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Done — Mr. Stradivarius 06:51, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Why dont change the wrong and old information to the true and new information ??!!!!

Please convert this false and shameless information of damavand elevation to the correct and new elevation that's NASA and so many competent organizations that have been calculate that .

(( 5610m is false and 5671m is correct ))

Horamantarh (talk) 12:23, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Horamantarh, the reason why you've been reverted repeatedly (and the page protected) is that you are not supplying a source for your change. Please read WP:CITE to see what is needed. If you can reply here with a source for your information then you and other editors can discuss the difference of opinion regarding the height. Please also see the discussion in the sections above this one, other editors are looking at sourcing accurate height readings. CaptRik (talk) 10:08, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

A primary source is required, with a reference to when and how the figure you claim was measured. Sources that have merely copied other sources are insufficient. Viewfinder (talk) 12:02, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

OK , these are some of reliable and main sites for true elevation of mount damavand

http://www.damawand.com

http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Damavand

http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/debrief/Iss010/topFiles/ISS010-E-13393.htm

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=5267

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080503.html

+ ....

are those sufficient for converting the false information to reliable information ????!!!!

--Horamantarh (talk) 12:14, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

In my opinion these are not sufficient, because none of them are primary sources, they have simply copied the elevation from other sources. Even people who work for NASA's websites do this. None of them tell us how and when Damavand was measured at 5671m. Modern GPS measurements and NASA satellite data support the lower and official Iranian elevation, which has been accepted by many other editors, both on English Misplaced Pages and those in most other languages. PS: please sign your edits with four tildes. Viewfinder (talk) 17:04, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Here are NASA's SRTM data. The cell spacing is 3 are seconds (about 90 metres). The summit of Damavand is not nearly steep enough to be 76 metres higher than the highest cell. Viewfinder (talk) 17:22, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Damavand was measured by a Norwegian professor and experienced GPS user on 14 August 2007. He states here (summit day) "that all references to an elevation of 5671 meter should be changed, this is absolutely wrong". None of the other sources supplied, no matter how many there are, should take precedence over this primary source. Viewfinder (talk) 17:35, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Dear viewfinder

all of viewers see our reasons and decide that what's of them are true ( your opinion or reliable sources!! ) , your main source that you appointed your reasons on it is this link that be named with you ((( official Iranian site ))) and linked to this site : ((( http://iranembassy.com.my/en/?page_id=15 )))

But this is only one of the iranian embassy's sites in the world and this is iranian embassy site in malaysia !!!!

So please put your other and reliable source links as those links that i put them in up , ((( viewers are smart )))

HoramanTarh

--Horamantarh (talk) 11:37, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

My principal source is the measurement by the Norwegian professor and GPS expert. Please calm down and find me an official Iranian site that supports 5671m and a source which tells us HOW and WHEN the summit was measured at 5671m. Viewfinder (talk) 13:22, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

After that your main and first link was about informations of iranian embassy in malaysia that any viewers laugh to that i went and saw your other link that is from norwegian professor , do you see that once ?!! this page is about the trips and travels that professor was going to those lands and writes in this page and one of his workes was measuring the elevations without any photoes and registeres or approveds . !! really is this source reliable for finding true information about mountain's elevation of the world or NASA and DAMAWAND and more reliable sites have true informations ??!!

Yes we see all of the reasons and pay attention to them for knowing TRUTH .

please see again your cited site , (when viewers see that for first time know truth and ...)

--Horamantarh (talk) 17:10, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I have supplied an Iranian government site that gives a height for Damavand. Perhaps it is not reliable but sites of US government agencies are also not reliable. You can see that the Norwegian professor is an experienced GPS user who carefully measured Damavand. Hand held GPS is reliable to within 15 metres. I have repeatedly asked you for a primary source. How can you be so sure that 5671m is correct when you supply no information about how and when the mountain was measured? Please can you also find someone to help you with your English. Viewfinder (talk) 17:33, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Meaning

Damavand means in old Persian

Dam - breath

Avand - vessle

It means the "vessle or holder of breath" because it is a volcano. It holds the breath of earth. I am surprised it has not yet been mentioned.

Elevation dispute

Based on my own measurement, 5610 meters is 100% wrong. Surely it is 5671 meters. Farhoudk (talk) 11:36, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

When and how did you measure it? Viewfinder (talk) 18:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

• All unassessed articles
• Start-Class Mountain articles
• Top-importance Mountain articles
• All WikiProject Mountains pages
• Start-Class WikiProject Volcanoes articles
• Top-importance WikiProject Volcanoes articles
• All WikiProject Volcanoes pages
• Unassessed Iran articles
• Unknown-importance Iran articles
• WikiProject Iran articles