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Decline of Hinduism in Pakistan was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 25 August 2013 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Hinduism in Pakistan. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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No it is not, my friend

This is no cut, copy of any book, but material composed after much research

Edits by User:Siddiqui

Can someone look at this edit by Siddiqui (talk · contribs)? The Bangladesh Liberation War genocide was deleted, Siddiqui claims that "thousands Muslim religious places in India" were destroyed and other things.

Improvement

Hi All,

I ask that this article be improved - there is a problem about sources, potential pro-Hindu, anti-Pakistan, pro-Pakistan, anti-Hindu conflicts and factual accuracy issues. I created this article, but I need your help in improving it.

Jai Sri Rama! Rama's Arrow 18:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

this must be a cut copy, or a typeout of some book.

formatting nessisary.

No it is not, my friend

This is no cut, copy of any book, but material composed after much research

East Pakistan - Bangladesh

The East Pakistan - Bangladesh issue should be discussed in it's own page.

Siddiqui 22:20, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Sarasvati River

The Hinduism was created around the holy Sarasvati River and not in Indus Valley civilization. The Hindu scriptures only talk about Sarasvati River.

Siddiqui 22:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of Talk page

User:Siddiqui please DO NOT delete the talk page. And please don't delete anything without explanation on talk. Thank you.

agreed.--Dangerous-Boy 21:28, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Andy 04:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Iwill post the details of 1998 census later showing number of Hindus in every district and province.

"One of the smallest religions in Pakistan"

In what sense is this opening claim really true? Technically, Hinduism is still one of the largest! What I guess it means to say is that they are now very small in number, like all non-Muslim faiths.205.212.74.252 17:32, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Merging Pakistani Hindus into Hinduism in Pakistan

I think the stub, which was created later, has only three edits since March, and doesn't contain any information that wouldn't also belong here, should be merged into this article. Let's discuss. --skoosh (háblame) 11:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Red patch - not a false reference

The red patch in turbans bit is not a false reference. The article (dated:March 16, 2009) clearly states that:

Though there were no direct threats, the Hindu families were never left in any doubt about their minority status. Sometimes it would be a warning not to stare at Muslim women for long, at other times, it would be the subtle coercion of the local administrators to sell their land when the situation was still normal. The families were weighing their options until October when they were asked to wear a red patch in their pagadis (turban).

Please don't remove parts without reading the reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nshuks7 (talk • contribs) 06:01, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Oops, forgot to sign :) And here's the link to the article: No more safe at home, Pak Hindus flee to India. It would also do well to read:

• 'Your temple is a threat to our religion'
• 'Our neighbours are behaving differently today'
• 'I never got wind of what is coming'
• 'There has always been shadow of the Taliban'

Nshuks7 (talk) 06:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Apologies for jumping the gun. I was reviewing the edits made by a sock of a banned editor (Hkelkar). I skimmed half of it and skipped over the relevant paragraph in the source. However, the text attributed to that reference fails our policies regarding original research and synthesis. You're welcome to rewrite it of course. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 06:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

With all due respect, which part of the following text is "complete bullshit"?:

Reports from Pakistan indicate that Hindu minorities under Taliban rule in Swat are being forced to wear Red headgear such as turbans to make it easier for the Islamic militants to target them for discrimination. In light of these deprivations, Pakistani Hindu minorities have started fleeing to India.

In fact, there's a lot more to it as people have been forced to sell off their property for lower prices, local authorities are in cohort with the fundamentalists and places of worship have been evicted forcibly. It's all there in the article. Have you read it yet? I am reverting your "Undo" one last time. Please categorically state which parts of the write-up you have an issue with. Nshuks7 (talk) 06:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

How about Radio Pakistan urges Sikhs, Muslims to unite against Hindus Nshuks7 (talk) 07:07, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

"Islamic militants". Please familiarize with Hkelkar at least. This guy was banned for being an extreme pro-India POV pusher. Regardless of the way it is sourced, it's quite clear that his edit was meant to be inflammatory towards Paks. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 16:02, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to rewrite and expand this section to provide readers with more of a context for anti-Indian attitudes in Pakistan. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 16:17, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Latest Nonsense from Indian media, paying Indian Hindus to pose as "Hindus from Pakistan"

Now the Indian media is paying Indian Hindus to pose as "Hindus from Pakistan". Pakistan has literally no Hindu/Sikh/Jain population, at maximum the estimate would be around 0.4% or 0.6%. The tiny group of Hindus who remained in Pakistan and chose not to go during the population exchange between India and Pakistan at independence converted to Islam a long time ago because they found Islam much more sensible than Hinduism. The Indian media is angry that there are no Hindus/Sikhs/Jains in Pakistan so they are paying actors to pose as "Hindus from Pakistan". Indian media should not waste its time in nonsense and concentrate on helping the poor people in India. Please obsess over some other country thanks. PakiMania (talk) 10:47, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Indian media is ALWAYS crazy. Now they are claiming that pakistan fired on indian posts when in fact you turn to pakistan news and you get the truth that drunk indian soldiers fire into pakistan and pakistan has to retaliate. This is the same indian media that said pakistan during mumbai bombings and then when the truth came out from other sources they had to shamelessly agree that there were hindu fanatics involved. The reality is it irks them that pakistan is busy developing and does not care about india whereas india has long gone past any hope of developing and is riddled with poverty. They also claimed that indian muslims were involved in the train burning of pilgrims only to later shamelessly admit when the truth came out that hindu fanatics were involved. Indian media is really absurd.... Mighty Azeem (talk) 00:30, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Persecution

my friend who write this article i will tel in hare Pakistan all people are equal. in education, low, politics, etc are equal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.178.81.20 (talk) 07:27, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I added two references from reputed Pakistani newspapers, that is "Hindu temple guard gunned down in Peshawar". http://newsweekpakistan.com/hindu-temple-guard-gunned-down-in-peshawar. AG Publications (Private) Limited. Jan 26, 2014. Retrieved 29 January 2014. {{cite web}}: External link in |website= (help) and "Mob ransacks temple in Nowshera". http://www.dawn.com/news/145745/mob-ransacks-temple-in-nowshera. DAWN MEDIA GROUP. June 30, 2005. Retrieved 29 January 2014. {{cite web}}: External link in |website= (help). Why is it being removed?—Khabboos (talk) 16:17, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

That is a form of original research and its not allowed on Misplaced Pages (you have broken other rules and have already been told to stop). This has also been said by another editor. The mob event is not exactly a form of persecution but a response to an alleged Quran burning (which was a very stupid act). Also could you please stop making multiple topics about the same thing? AcidSnow (talk) 20:15, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

That the "Pakistani Government has also done a deal with the Taliban to enforce the Sharia in parts of the North West Frontier Province of Pakistan" is supported by a citation. However the citation did not mention anything I could find that would support the statement that: "Terrorist organisations like the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and the Taliban in Pakistan, have been an influential factor in the persecution of and discrimination against religious minorities, including Hindus." I have changed the first sentence back to what it used to be - and that needs a fact tag.

Also I am not really sure how Sharia Law being enforced in the North West Frontier is connected to the claim that "this can lead to more persecution of minorities". They seem unconnected facts.--Toddy1 (talk) 19:43, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Hm... It might have been wise not to use the exact wording from the newspaper, but to paraphrase it. These are such important topics, to all of you; better try to use neutral language, lest everyone gets inflamed to soon. After all, we're all human beings, who try to do our best. All the best to all of you, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:03, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I am not quite sure what you mean by "the exact wording from the newspaper".

• CNN - "Pakistani government officials announced Monday an agreement with the Taliban to allow strict Islamic law, or sharia, to be implemented in parts of North West Frontier Province."
• Article - "The Pakistani Government has also done a deal with the Taliban to enforce the Sharia in parts of the North West Frontier Province of Pakistan"

Have I misunderstood?--Toddy1 (talk) 20:12, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

No, I mean the "mob" etc. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:56, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I misunderstood.--Toddy1 (talk) 23:53, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Joshua Jonathan why don't you add that sentence (about the mob attack) in the right way then?—Khabboos (talk) 17:38, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Reference dump

This section exists to clear any spare references from preceding discussions

Hinduism in Pakistan#Persecution

Please consider joining the feedback request service. An editor has requested comments from other editors for this discussion. This page has been added to the following lists: Religion and philosophy Politics, government, and law When discussion has ended, remove this tag and it will be removed from the lists. If this page is on additional lists, they will be noted below.

I added a sentence, 'In 2005, a mob ransacked a temple in Nowshera, Pakistan' with this as a reference: "Mob ransacks temple in Nowshera". http://www.dawn.com/news/145745/mob-ransacks-temple-in-nowshera. DAWN MEDIA GROUP. June 30, 2005. Retrieved 29 January 2014. {{cite web}}: External link in |website= (help). The reference says the same thing as my sentence, but User:AcidSnow is reverting my edit repeatedly, so I request others to add that sentence in the wikipedia article on Hinduism in Pakistan in the 'persecution' section.Khabboos (talk) 18:54, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Khabboos, AcidSnow has been more forgiving with your edits than I would have been. Your references are reliable, but they do not make the connection between the attacks and "persecution". That is coming from you, and is thus WP:Original Research, specifically Synthesis of materials. Articles like this tend to be troll magnets, and become a dumping ground for every incident any ethnicity finds offensive. Unfortunately that's an incredibly bad way to write an encyclopedia. You have a noble goal, trying to inform, but we can't just read the news and decide a particular event is part of a group's persecution. If you want to expand on this section, you should begin by searching for information about "persecution of Hindus within Pakistan", rather than searching for events and labeling them so yourself. Keep in mind that in a search like this, opinionated sources are OK, so long as they are by experts or notable figures. And I bet you will find a lot of that. Your research methodology up until now has been backwards, and I completely understand because I used to do the same thing. Hopefully if you decide to take my advice, you can produce some more balanced and legitimate material. PraetorianFury (talk) 19:40, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Your right PraetorianFury, but after seeing him try to get me banned, insulting me, and ignoring my responses instead of discussing anything I don't see why he should be allowed to edit here let alone me being so forgiving to him. AcidSnow (talk) 19:50, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

PraetorianFury, AcidSnow and Toddy1 - you know that I'm a wikipedia novice (rookie), so please tell me how to insert that sentence, 'Mob ransacks...........' properly (I want it in this article).—Khabboos (talk) 08:28, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Fake citations

An editor has added some citations.

The Taliban in Pakistan have been an influential factor in the persecution of and discrimination against religious minorities, including Hindus and Hazaras.

Let us examine them.

• 1. This article does not mention the Taliban. Nor does it mention Hazaras.
• 2. This article does not mention the Taliban. Nor does it mention Hazaras.
• 3. This is a dead URL. I do not mind dead URLs that were live when they were posted. But posting a new reference to a dead URL is not acceptable.
• 4 This 14 June 2001 news report really does mention the Taliban - however it deals with alleged persecution of Hindus in Afghanistan. It is not relevant to an article on Hinduism in Pakistan.
• 5 This is another 2001 news report - when I tried the URL, it was a dead link.
• 6 This article is about persecution of Hazaras by the Taliban in Afghanistan. It is of no relevance to this article.
• 7 This is exactly the same URL as No. 6.

Since the only citations to the bit about the Taliban are all fake, I am going to remove the reference to the Taliban from the article, just as I warned the editor in question I would. As there are no citations to link the Taliban to Hinduism in Pakistan, it is not relevant that the Pakistan Government has done a deal with the Taliban over Sharia law, so that can go too.--Toddy1 (talk) 19:31, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Toddy1, the Taliban is one unit, although they are operating in both Afghanistan and Pakistan and if they're doing something in Afghanistan, they are doing it in Pakistan also, so I hope you can leave the sentences in question intact (please read the article on the Taliban).—Khabboos (talk) 19:39, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Like I said earlier, I am not the only one that has a problem with your disruptive edits. "so I request others to add that sentence", are you reading anything we have said so far? It does not seem like it at all after reading this. Not just that, but could you please stop forum shopping? AcidSnow (talk) 19:43, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:No original research says: "you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented". The citations provided were either dead links or were irrelevant to the topic of this article. (A dead link is perfectly acceptable if it is live at the time of posting - but it is not acceptable if it is dead at the time of posting.)--Toddy1 (talk) 19:56, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Here is some more rubbish about the Taliban that was in the article. If you compare the source from Rediff.com with what was claimed, it does not really stand up.

Hindu minorities, under Taliban rule in Swat, were forced to wear red headgear such as turbans as a symbol of dhimmi.

• First of all, the Rediff.com article says that what is being talked about with in the Orakzai Agency Area, whereas the Misplaced Pages sentence says Swat. If you look at the map, you will see Orakzai and Swat.
• Secondly, the Rediff.com article is very weak in its claims. Rediff.com does not actually say that the story is true. It merely states that some guy who "who says he is a Pandit from the region" made some of the claims, and another guy "who is now in Amritsar with his family" made another of the claims.
• Nor does that article state that anyone actually wore the red patch in their turban - merely that some people were asked to.
• Nor does Rediff.com claim that anywhere is under Taliban rule.

--Toddy1 (talk) 23:37, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Use of blog as source for girl-kidnapping and conversion

Here is another statement in the article, which I think we ought to discuss:

The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan came out with a report in 2010 stating that at least 25 Hindu girls are abducted in Pakistan every month.

One thing to note is that the sources says: "An activist and council member of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, Amarnath Motumal, stated that at least 20 to 25 girls are abducted and converted to Islam against their will every single month." i.e. It was not a report, it was an activist and council member. Though there are references to a report in the source - but the statement Misplaced Pages made is not attributed to the report in the source. And the source did not say not "at least 25" it said "least 20 to 25" (so it might have been 21).

But big problem is at the bottom of the source, which reads: "The opinions expressed within this article or blog are the personal opinions of the author. The Chakra News is not responsible for the accuracy, completeness, suitability, or validity of any information on this blog. All information is provided on an as-is basis. The information, facts or opinions appearing on the blog do not reflect the views of The Chakra News and The Chakra News does not assume any responsibility or liability for the same."

Misplaced Pages should not be making a strong statement of fact on the basis of a source that has this disclaimer. In my opinion, the statement should be modified to "It has been claimed 'that at least 20 to 25 girls are abducted and converted to Islam against their will every single month.'" with the part from "that" to "month" as a quotation in inverted commas. It would probably also be useful to try to build on this by finding other sources (if they exist), so instead of building a hate-piece as now, we try to explain why girls are being allegedly-kidnapped and converted.--Toddy1 (talk) 00:01, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Toddy1, I read administrator Callanecc's post on your Talk page at User_talk:Toddy1#Arbitration_enforcement_request and wonder if your objections are right. However, as I mentioned that I am a wikipedia novice, may be you can cite the wikipedia rules that you want for your removal of the sentences that you feel had made this article a 'hate-piece' (minorities are really persecuted in Pakistan).—Khabboos (talk) 08:43, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I found these on the internet: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/24/opinion/pakistans-persecuted-christians.html?_r=0, http://www.persecution.org/category/countries/asia/pakistan/ - can we have these references in this article to highlight the persecution of minorities in Pakistan?—Khabboos (talk) 08:54, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

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