Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 01:51, 21 June 2006

• /Archive 1: Ruth Kelly, Chomsky, Feminism, Cuba

Deletion

Hi Zleitzen I was just wondering how I nominate this rubbish article for deletion. How to I put a delete tag on it and bring up a Votes for Deletion page for it? Rusty2005 16:38, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Looks like you found out how, Rusty. Good spot! --Zleitzen 17:47, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Re: Cuba

Hi Thebainer, I saw your comments about mediation on Adam's rfc page. It would be a great boost if you could persuade Adam to constructively comment on the content and drop his "robust" tactics". No one’s asking Adam to concede his beliefs, it’s just that we feel he should be more inclusive, respect others and share editorial control. A cup of tea would suit me fine!  ;) --Zleitzen 17:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the slow reply, I've been rather busy lately. What I meant on that page was that I'd be happy to mediate the content at Cuba, I find that it's usually easier to try to fix the content rather than trying to fix behaviour. It tends to work fairly well by taking away the basis for arguments. --bainer (talk) 14:51, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

RE AdamCarr - Well, we will have to see where it goes from here. I won't take any premature actions at this point unless it is absolutely necessary. --Jay(Reply) 21:32, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that no premature action be taken, but it's coming to something when Adam's incivility is making the newspapers!

I find Bruce and MichaelW to be far more incivil. Zleitzen, I'm hoping to put together my thoughts on the Cuba/US relations article soon. Glad to know that you are willing to contribute as well. I'm looking forward to it. --Mcmachete 19:22, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

That could cover a lot of the things we haven't got room for on the main page, which should strictly describe basic stuff like Cuban geography and brief history etc.--Zleitzen 19:32, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Frivolous Side-Bar

I've been editing the page on the Architect (from the Matrix). I've been going through parts of the 2nd and 3rd movies for a few hours now verifying what people did or didn't say. ugh.

Time to eat. Anyway, I wondered what you thought of the edits. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/Architect_%28The_Matrix%29 )

(Antelope In Search Of Truth 22:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC))

Hi Antelope. Funnily enough, although I've spent years involved in media and film theory I know virtually nothing about the Matrix. I'm more of a Battle of Algiers person myself (if you've ever seen that film you'll know I'm no fun at all when it comes to movies). The edits seem fine to me, I bet it's great editing a non controversial topic for a change. I should give it a go! The dispute I'm involved in is making the newspapers , I guess I should count myself lucky I don't get a mention!! --Zleitzen 02:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

-shrugs- Oh I don't know, a good "historical film" can be good.  :)

As for non-controversial, well.... the Wachiowski Brothers went out of their way NOT to explain what *they* meant, thematically, in the trilogy because they didn't want to invalidate what others would take from the movies. They have said they were interested in getting people to question things, not decide one way or another. So I was trying to stick to what objectively happened in the movies, without interpreting the "why" of it. That's where I expect opposition; someone who has a pet theory about what something meant and saw what he wanted to see and needs the article to reflect that.

-sigh- It's an epidemic, and I'm not immune, though I do try to check myself whenever possible. I guess I was hoping you had seen them and maybe analyzed them and had a grip on some of the nuances. Alas......  ;)

I stopped by that article that is making the newspapers. Didn't really see what I could do there. The debate was a bit of a mess, but it appeared at the time that it was winding down a bit. I guess I might be wrong if it made the newspapers?

(Antelope In Search Of Truth 20:56, 4 May 2006 (UTC))\

Re. Cuba - Funny; my full time job as well, though I don't normally brag about it, nor do I assume I am without bias. No personal slag intended there - but I get very concerned when anyone assumes they are themselves unbiased.Bridesmill 22:14, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Fair point, Bridesmill, I would have the same concerns myself if I read that from an editor. Nobody is totally unbiased, it's human nature. But everyone should aim for that here and recognise the filters and layers involved. The proof is in the pudding as they say!--Zleitzen 22:39, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

You know, I was planning on apologizing

I was planning on apologizing but then I came to this page and realized everything I wrote here had been deleted. Darn dude, lets make sure that we never cross paths again, you have really managed to rub me the wrong way. Whereas I respect your investigating ability, your selective choice of what belongs on your talk page and your other pet pages I find repugnant. Travb 07:37, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if me organising my talk page rubs you up the wrong way, and you find it "repugnant". I've no idea why you're so worked up about this, and I assure you that you have got you're wires crossed as to why I have done this.--Zleitzen 12:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Cuba Human Rights

I agree that the Human Rights section that Adam wrote was not all bad. Though, it was to POV too. I attempted to rewrite it to get it NPOV, but ran out of patience. Instead, I just fell back to the last NPOV version of the section in the history, my intention was to do something quick to allow the last POV dispute box to be removed. That said, I would support 'harvesting' the good parts of Adam's rewrite, (just leave out the POV slant). As a baseline, sticking with the main point outline of an neutral international organization, like perhaps Human Rights Watch, or similar. By that measure, the Gay rights issue, does not make the cut and should be put in the Human rights in Cuba instead. BruceHallman 20:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Cuba

Communist State is a term widely used to describe a nation ruled by the Communist party. I understand that no country like that ever refers to itself as "Communist" since that remains unattained. However, "Communist State" is most accurate and significant, this is the term most often used in the West. We can add that Cuba considers itself a socialist state if neccessary. CJK 22:07, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Human rights in the People's Republic of China

Hi, I am wondering if you could cast vote in the POV dispute survey of Human rights in the People's Republic of China. Thanks. Coconut99 99 22:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are asking me to do or what talk page you mean.

Ask Maester mensch what happened. He stated clearly in his comments how he tried to undo the damage done by the person who removed all the material. And he tried to explain to the person why it was so damaging. I saw what Maester mensch wrote to him, and as far as I know, that person has not responded.

That person (whose name I can't spell and if I go find it, I'll lose this page) is trying to move two sections in Fidel Castro to the Cuba page (according to his comments on Cuba talk). I've been trying to figure it out myself. Maester mensch accidently discovered what happened when I asked him for help with a link this afternoon and he couldn't find the link because the section the link was in had suddenly disappeared. When I learned that from mensch I looked at Fidel Castro and the comments on the watchlist. Then I saw what had been done to Fidel Castro. In a short period of time half the material had been removed.

I'm not interested in participating in Fidel Castro anymore, given what has happened today. No one has consulted with me about any of this except mensch who has been very helpful. He knew I had written most of what has been removed.

If you can, explain it to me. I'm new at Misplaced Pages but I've never had an experience like this before on other Misplaced Pages copy edits. Always before people have been very kind. KarenAnn 04:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry, KarenAnn. I had a look at the page and it looks like you've done some really good work on the Castro page so far. Don't let Teemu's comments discourage you, although other users are bound to tweak little things etc - I changed a couple of links etc. I didn't understand Teemu's comments about moving stuff around myself. I'm also not sure if he's up to speed with subject matter. Would you mind if we reinstated your work soon so users can carry on improving the page? And you're more than welcome to carry on if you're willing to stick at it, it's good to see an editor who is dedicated to sources and citations.--Zleitzen 05:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I am not into the politics of all this. Most of what I wrote is gone completely now and apparently not able to be retrieved. I've put too much work into Fidel Castro to do it all over again. I don't mind people making changes (tweaking and such); it's the whole sale slaughter that demoralizes me. I'll move on to something new where I can get intellectually interested again. Today burned out on Fidel Castro, at least as far as this project is concerned.

I am a professional writer/copy editor/researcher and I guess (unreasonably) I expect people to act professionally (or at least civilly). I don't like this way of working. Teemu accused me of being biased but his examples lead me to believe he doesn't understand the English language very well. (The English language is my profession.) He also doesn't seem to grasp the essence of Castro, which doesn't have to do with political arguments over words. It is the man and how he gets things done that is so fascinating. I don't enjoy working in this kind of atmosphere whereas I do enjoy the intellectual challenge of writing clearly and factually. I think I'll move on to greener pastures at Misplaced Pages where I can take pleasure in what I do and let you guys fight it out. But thank you for your kind words, and I did enjoy the last few weeks before all this came down. KarenAnn 06:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I know, I was appalled when I read the Cuba page. ("I was accused of bias for writing 'Cuba is prone to devastating hurricanes'"!} Too bad it's devolved into such ideological fluff, because historically Cuba is fascinating in so many ways. And, ironically, my personal belief is that Castro's strength is that he is not an ideologue but rather a pragmatist, a skillful, charming pragmatist, doing what he believes is necessary for survival. I was trying to show that in the article -- that he deals with things, he gets stuff done, he skillfully modifies his tactics to fit a changing world. He runs a country of 11 million people, a drop in the bucket, and he practically has rock star status. And it is through pure force of personality, intellect, and uncanny intuition that he is so effective. I think I'll work on Frank Pais for a while -- no one cares about him enough to harass me. I'll give your Ubre Blanca article a look. That's the secret -- choose an obscure or erudite subject and you'll be left alone to explore it as a facet of the universe! KarenAnn 06:59, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Wish you would not restore my work on Fidel Castro

I am ashamed that I was so naive as to put all the work I did into that page and can't even look at Fidel Castro anymore. I wish you would take my stuff out of it. I know that's not correct Misplaced Pages thinking and that I can't be proprietary, but what is the point if hard work is not respected and can be wholesale trashed (we are not talking "tweaks" here) with no one saying one word to me.

No one mentioned to me that they did not like what I was doing or gave me any suggestions or guidance of any kind regarding the page, although I asked for some. I would have accepted, in fact welcomed, feedback of any sort. And yet is is obvious that there was much silent criticism. Having no power, I can only plead with you to remove my work so bad memories will not abound and my faith will be restored that there is some sort of respect here for people who are trying to do the right thing. KarenAnn 22:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry KarenAnn, I asked other editors what they thought and they seemed to agree that your work had improved the page significantly. I felt it was important for the direction of the page to restore your material, there was too much good research in there to be lost. Apologies if that was not your wish. Unfortunately one of the down sides of this type of group editing is that certain users feel it neccessary to "trash" other users work - it's a failing on their part rather than the original editors. I've been editing on Cuban matters for a couple of months and am very familiar with the subject matter, but I didn't see any reason why anyone would criticise your work. Please reconsider your request, at least for the sake of the page itself.--Zleitzen 23:20, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

You say the other editors "seemed to agree", whatever that means. The page itself is a misuse. That's why I don't want to be a part of it. I looked at it just now and it is awful. The motivations there are not good. I'm not reconsidering my request. But what does it matter? You guys have all the power and my work will be used for your own purposes. KarenAnn 00:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

re: Adam Carr..again

Thanks for pointing that out once again. --Jay(Reply) 01:18, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Ubre Blanca

Z: as far as I can tell, Castro has appropriated work on dairy cattle from researchers out of Cuba, even the "miniature" cattle are far from being a novel concept. What is novel about Castro's ordered research, is that it almost always tends to fail because of micromanagement. Will look into it further when I get a chance. El Jigue 5-24-06

Z: The trouble with NPOV one cannot readily apply it to a dictatorshipe where all official documentation, and all documentation within the reach of the dictator is co-opted. El Jigue 5-24-06

Fidel Castro

"Hi Maester mensch, you should be congratulated for your excellant work on the Fidel Castro page under difficult and often trying circumstances! Well done.--Zleitzen 18:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)"

Thanks for your support! Certainly appreciated. :-) mensch • t 21:41, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Cuba's Democratic Socialists

Z: I know very little about them, after reading I would not put much trust in them. It seems that it is group seeking power in Cuba after Castro is gone, the denunciation of Cuban exiles could be interpreted as proforma protection against too much Cuban government interference. However, if real it seems intended to seek power without much democratic restraint or input. I would not trust them... for not only are they almost certainly infiltrated by Castro's agents but they already appear to have a program to rule... Still I will withhold judgement until I know more. Strange and sad how often when slaves are liberated they copy the actions of their previous masters. El Jigue 5-31-06

England and Germany football rivalry

Thank you very much for your nice words about my work on this piece, you're very kind! Angmering 18:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Socialist republic

Hi, Fidel Castro has a long talk page so I am not sure to what part you are referring. However, most English-speaking academics when dealing with governments refer to a "communist state", i.e. a state in which a Communist Party has fully enshrined legal control. I believe that is most appropriate here as well, despite self-descriptions (example: Democratic People's Republic of Korea). Has there been any attempt to vote on this? Thank you. Contrarrevolucionario 03:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I understand your points, but it was established on the Cuba page - see this from the talk page . --Zleitzen 03:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I see what you mean, yes, but where can we give a reference to the obvious fact that Cuba is referred to as a communist state and that it is important in the history of communism? This is not denied by anyone that I know of. Thanks. Contrarrevolucionario 03:34, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

It's important to have the "socialist republic" term in that introduction paragraph but elswhere you have free range as far as I'm concerned. I generally don't like to get involved in his article - it's just for across-the-board consistency with Cuban articles I request that we keep to the formal terms in certain areas. One of the unique problems with that article is because of Castro's longevity, we end up with a lot of duplicated material appearing in other Cuban articles. So there needs to be a degree of consistency. Anyway, all I ask is that we keep the "Socialist republic" in that first paragraph. Good luck!--Zleitzen 03:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Psephos

Hi, since you have edited Elections in Cuba I thought you may want to weigh in at Talk:Psephos where some people dispute as "original research" my contention that the Psephos website is "not entirely neutral" when it says flat-out that "Cuba has no elections". Margana 03:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Much as I find the Psephos article interesting, I feel it would be better for the poor bloke if I stayed away from his pet project and accompanying article. Though it may interest academics at the University of Essex, an institution perhaps unwisely mentioned, as it is one of the world's foremost centres for the study of the Cuban democratic and electoral process! Good luck! --Zleitzen 15:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Chavez

Thanks! It's a huge task: it needs a lot of work, but I'm hesitant to move too fast, since everyone is behaving so Wiki-nicely, and consensus is essential. Sandy 02:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Response

First, I agree that Sandy was cutting down extraneous material, looking for consensus, and improving the article. (I wish Sandy would extend this same civility to me. I was new to the discussion, and by coincidence I happened to support a major revision by another editor the morning after my first edit to the page. I was not the one to make this major edit without discussing it with Sandy, so I don't know why Sandy is so caught up on berating me.) Since the article had deteriorated so dramatically after it had been featured on the main page in December and before Sandy began his/her work, it made more sense to roll back the edits made in 2006, as opposed to following Sandy's strategy. Wgee came to that decision earlier today, writing in his edit summary: Restored the last 10 December 2005 version, as that was the day it appeared on the main page. This version offers a much better platform for improvement. The current version is just a mess. Sandy should not take offense to my decision to support Wgee's edit. Perhaps Wgee should've discussed it earlier; perhaps I should've discussed my support of Wgee's edit before beginning to edit the December 10 version. Still, the decision was right, and the article was dramatically improved as a result. Second, regarding my initial edit concerning the 2002 coup, I was aware of SandyGeorgia's points, but unimpressed. All major news media outlets refer to the events as a coup. To disregard their naming conventions, I believe, brings us into the original research realm. Third, you accuse me of "demanding blocks on editors without due cause"; I strongly reject this charge. You've weighed into several instances when I've requested indefinite blocks on three users: Sgrayban (talk · contribs), Cognition (talk · contribs), and Comandante (talk · contribs). In each of those cases, blocks were well-deserved; and Misplaced Pages is much better off with Sgrayban and Cognition gone for good. Forth, as for my comment about "young" contributors who idolize Castro, Guevara, and Chavez, I was not referring to you. Finally, please don't respond to this post on my talk page. If you object to my edits, I'll be happy to discuss them on the Chavez talk page, as you are, despite my editorial disagreements with you in the past, a legitimate editor with expert knowledge on Latin America. Otherwise, I wish to get back to content editing, rather than engaging in interpersonal disputes. 172 | Talk 05:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

On the Chavez issue I said pretty much said the same thing to Sandy myself. But it's a collaborative process, productive contributors like Sandy should not feel like they want to abandon the site because they haven't been treated well, there's too many cranks and vandals around as it is. Although I'll give you the benefit of having had a far longer tenure, I appreciate that frustration can set in and actions can appear more curt than perhaps intended. By the way, I was calling for ScottGrayban to be blocked even before you were for his abuse to you early in the Cuba dispute which I didn't like at all, and was pointing to this when the talk of an unblock came up. Cognition and Commandante I know nothing about.--Zleitzen 06:22, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

My long tenure on this site notwithstanding, and all of Sandy's comments saying that I 'bite the newcomers,' I'm actually the newcomer on the Chavez article. I still don't know why this user is so upset. Is it because I archived the talk page? If so, I'll restore it. I just started my work. I wish he/she would cut me some slack. Regarding the blocks, if ScottGrayban, Cognition, and Comandante were not the ones to which you were referring, I'm not sure what you meant earlier, unless you meant my support of the two recent blocks by PMA. 172 | Talk 06:32, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

It would have been wiser to pass those dubious blocks to other administrators and/or help PMA to calm down, is what I'm referring to here. Anyway, you're the newcomer on the Chavez page - within 24 hours you have supported a reversion removing weeks of painstaking rebuilding work, accused an editor of making tendentious edits, archived the talk page, told a user where they can and can't make comments etc. And you wonder why you are engaging in interpersonal disputes rather than content editing? If you could just raise the standard of your bedside manner to the standard of your editing skills then you wouldn't be defending yourself here. Be nice.--Zleitzen 06:58, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

PMA's blocks were correct. Let's drop the issue, though, because I am not interested in debating it. Yes, I have supported a total revision of the article and challenged another editor on the word choice regarding the events of April 2002. The job was done efficiently, and now the article is better as a result. And if I could stand to be nicer, so could you and Sandy. 172 | Talk 16:25, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I responded on my talk page Since you aren't going to apologize, 172, I encourage you to move along, put this incident behind you, and get busy fixing the article. Cheers, Sandy 12:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

RE: moniker

He has been indef-banned though has attempted several times to get unblocked, the results of which remain unclear at present. I have been open about my intentions when asked. Thanks. 72.65.80.34 13:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

1. I have a dynamic IP, so I do not control what my IP address is; it is misleading to say that I am "utilising a multitude of IP addresses", giving an intended impression that they are fast and loose.
2. The ban of PatCheng is currently being disputed and the outcome is unclear, as I already explained to you.
3. Anonymous editing is not forbidden.
4. I am not violating policy.
5. Though Connolley was well-intentioned, the block was lifted because it was a pedantic charge leveled by ROX in order to escalate an edit war and bring it to talk pages.
6. I did not edit while the block was in effect, and in fact left Misplaced Pages entirely for a period of time.

If you have a dispute with my behavior, kindly bring it to me, rather than skulk around in private. 151.205.36.69 03:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

My mistake about the block and the dynamic IP - my apologies as I know nothing about computers. I just have a problem with the various addresses on all the Cuba pages, and the confusion this causes - I would frankly prefer it if you consistently stick to one address as you're actively involved in large disputes. If PatCheng resurfaces for any reason be sure to alert me immediately and I'll assist in any way I can.--Zleitzen 03:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the earnest apology - this seems to be rarer and rarer in Misplaced Pages, where most would rather adopt a reflexively defensive position over even the most egregious of behavior than come clean.

As I said, I have a dynamic IP, which means that the address changes every time I log off and back on, which usually occurs around once a day. However, I have been careful not to unduly cross or misrepresent identity paths and have not mislead anyone about my intentions, much less violate policy (e.g. any double votes and so forth). I don't believe individual addresses have confused anyone as to the identity of a party in the dispute, and believe me if you comment to anyone involved I will likely see it. The most frustrating thing about the PatCheng ordeal is articles, several of them at once, get caught in the crossfire of summary reverts leading people to assume malign intentions on my part, which I believe caused you to object on one such page, where I explained some edits. I am always open to discussion on edits (when I have the time), but that is not PC's intention, and he is disruptive. In fact, I attempt earnest compromises on the most tendentious of issues, but this does not necessitate that I abandon ground if I feel that accuracy, quality, or neutrality is sacrificed, hence reverts. I would be much obliged if you did monitor potential stalking issues you happen to come across in such articles, and I hope any existing content disputes can be settled civilly and with respect, as is my intention. Thank you. 151.205.36.69 03:51, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Zleitzen, I just want to point out that User:72.65.68.229, User:151.205.36.69, User:141.153.90.177, and various other IP addresses appears to be the IP addresses of User:TJive and User:YINever (he admitted to being the same person). They both have the same editing patterns and a WHOIS shows they are from Reston, VA. Here he admitted it. --RevolverOcelotX 01:47, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Hum, RevolverOcelotX taking up PatCheng's harassment, surely out of his sense of justice. See now what I mean? 141.153.90.177 03:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

After looking at User:141.153.90.177 contributions and editing patterns, I suspect 141.153.90.177 (talk · contribs) is another sockpuppet of User:TJive, User:YINever, User:72.65.68.229, User:151.205.36.69, and various other constantly changing IP addresses. Perhaps another check user might be in order. --RevolverOcelotX 03:38, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

My apologies for speaking on your page, Zleitzen, he follows me everywhere. 141.153.90.177 03:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It would be helpful if 141.153.90.177 consistently stick to one IP address or username. He is actively involved in many large disputes with constantly changing IP addresses which causes much confusion. Editing with constantly changing anonymous IP addresses makes him look sneaky and many see it as a sign of work by trolls or vandals. --RevolverOcelotX 04:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Uncle Fidel

"Guided" would be okay if we were taliking about what he claims, but we can't just flat out state "guided" just because the Cuban Constitution, with all of it's contradictions, says so. CJK 00:00, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I know what you're trying to say and there is some value in it, but "Ruled" is incorrect though. Cuba is not governed or ruled by the Communist party nor Castro - it is governed by the Cuban constitution and Cuban law. Which states that the party is the "vanguard" and "guiding force" of Cuban society. Besides, being a member of the Communist party is not a pre-requisite for sitting in government. Castro himself has often subjegated the party and does not always see eye to eye, despite being president of that party also. Really, it's too complicated to say in one sentence and may be best left out entirely. --Zleitzen 00:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The reason I put it there is that we needed to note, in the intro somewhere, Fidel's Communist affiliation. If you read the intro without it, you'd be under the impression he was some sort of democratic leader. CJK 00:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Zleitzen,you are being so reasonable, I'm almost starting to forgive you. KarenAnn 00:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you f*cking kidding me?

Controlled is maybe more accurate, but it's still untrue. There are multiple conflicting bodies in the Cuban judiciary - and mass organisations that are unaffiliated with the Communist party that play a major part in Cuban governance.

Hey, KarenAnn - I am reasonable!--Zleitzen 00:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Could you name some of these organizations and their functions? CJK 19:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The National Assembly is made up of all kinds of characters including popular culture figures and "local heroes" - the Municipal Assembly is made up of housewives, farm workers, intellectuals, unaffiliated to the PCC. The main Trade Union CTC, which predates the revolution by 20 years is not officially affiliated to the PCC. The FAR - which has been the most influencial wing of the Cuban government since the revolution was a nationalist military organisation not directly affiliated with the modern PCC, which came into existence much later. etc etc... --Zleitzen 21:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you trying to tell me that the National Assembly is not controlled by the Cuban Communists and that the court system is not controlled by the national assembly? Because if you are, we have nothing further to discuss. CJK 22:50, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Anon

WHOIS says Amsterdam. I can't even recall any Dutch Wikipedians offhand. It seems he's objecting to KA's comments; on that, I don't know anything. --TJive 00:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Communism

Why do you have such communist views? Why must you be so impossible? Why dont you just go to China, join the PLA, and "liberate" Taiwan?El benderson 01:51, 21 June 2006 (UTC)