Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 06:02, 5 March 2014

Template:UserTalkArchiveBox

This user is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries.

Hello and welcome to Misplaced Pages! We appreciate encyclopedic contributions, but some of your recent edits, such as the ones to the page User:Adjwilley, do not conform to our policies. For more information on this, see Misplaced Pages's policies on vandalism and limits on acceptable additions. If you'd like to experiment with the wiki's syntax, please do so in the sandbox rather than in articles.

If you still have questions, there is a new contributors' help page, or you can write {{helpme}} below this message along with a question and someone will be along to answer it shortly. You may also find the following pages useful for a general introduction to Misplaced Pages.

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• Help pages
• Tutorial

I hope you enjoy editing and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to write a note on the bottom of my talk page if you want to get in touch with me. Again, welcome! ~Adjwilley (talk) 16:26, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Request for third party comment

Hello Adjwilley, I was wondering if you can bring in a third-party view to the editing and discussion that is happening at Huqúqu'lláh and Talk:Huqúqu'lláh (and actually a lot on my own talk page, which I'm trying to get onto the talk page of the article). The discussion is on the use of primary source material, as well as the removal of views which have secondary source citations, with them being replaced with views which have no secondary source citations.

It would be helpful if there can be some other viewpoints brought into the discussion. Warm regards, -- 10:07, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I will have a look at it. ~Adjwilley (talk) 17:00, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for commenting; can you keep the page and the discussion on your watch page for a while to see if you think my edits are heavy-handed or not. The anonymous editor is removing a well sourced sentence from secondary sources, with either his understanding of the primary source, and/or a statement that is not collaborated by the secondary sources. Warm regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 19:48, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Yep, I've watchlisted the page. ~Adjwilley (talk) 19:54, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Concern/query

Hello Adjwilley. I am concerned about this note Srich recently left on Carolmooredc's talk page:

This looks to me like Canvassing or Meatpuppetry with respect to the Arbcom request. Am I mistaken? Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 22:26, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm not Adjwilley but I can address this: Yes, you are mistaken. Canvassing is trying to recruit likeminded editors to support one's side. Meatpuppetry is having another editor edit secretly on one's behalf and at one's direction, to avoid scrutiny of one's own edits. In the linked diff, SRich was expressing concern about the length of Carolmooredc's comments at the ArbCom request, and suggesting that she hold off on providing detailed diffs until the case is opened. There is no element of recruitment by SRich; Carolmooredc was already participating at that case request when the comment was made, so it cannot be canvassing. There is no element of secrecy or proxying either: the comment by SRich was made openly on Carolmooredc's talk page and was not couched in terms of doing anything on SRich's behalf, but rather a benign bit of advice that could have been offered by anyone. alanyst 23:01, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, we've also got this: in which @Carolmooredc: solicits @Binksternet: to consider adding certain diffs to his Arbcom statement. I'd hate to think that WP dispute resolution is about team play. SPECIFICO talk 23:42, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

So did Binksternet follow the supposed solicitation? No. Binksternet (talk) 02:16, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Alanyst. @Specifico, I pretty much concur with the above. Both look pretty much like people giving and receiving advice. I've made similar talk page edits many times myself. The second could potentially be read as a request to file a report, but it was just as much a request for advice and opinion, and I commented on the thread myself yesterday with my 2 cents. Either way I think that stirring this pot is probably not the most productive path forward. Thanks for dropping by. ~Adjwilley (talk) 02:44, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

It didn't even occur to me that that would be anything like canvassing. And I did add it myself when it became relevant. Mea culpa if it was bad. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 00:15, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

You're fine Carol, I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's good to be careful in situations like this, as it's easy to misinterpret others' intentions during a prolonged disagreement, but I understand your question was in good faith. ~Adjwilley (talk) 00:39, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Decision regarding Murzyn

Hello, thank you for your comment regarding Murzyn and the problem there. I will try to get along with VM, but to be honest I've tried to steer clear of him over the last two years following (what I still claim was) his outing of me to another Polish editor, but he edits Murzyn, Racism in Poland, and other pages which I started so it is hard not to come into contact with him. I do feel hard done by his gaming of the system - telling me not to post on his page then emailing me (he did it twice, not once as he claimed). He was previously banned for off-wiki activity (the infamous EEML) so it would seem part of his MO, as would passing on my email address and name. Anyway, I can assure you there was no hounding of him by me. I was the one who almost left WP due to the unpleasant atmosphere. Regards, Malick78 (talk) 10:27, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the note. I am on my phone right now so I won't be able to give a complete response, but I just wanted to say that I didn't mean to imply that you had actually hounded him, only that he may have felt that way. I am sorry for your experience as well ~Adjwilley (talk) 18:18, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Malick78, I would very much appreciate it if you stopped lying. If you stopped lying about me outing you, which I never did, and if you stopped lying about stuff that happened five years ago, stuff you weren't at all involved in (or were you? Either you're lying or you were involved but under a different username. These are the only possibilities). You are of course free to believe whatever fantasy pops into your head but you are not allowed to make these kinds of fantastical accusation without proof. Do not accuse me of outing you again.

As to I can assure you there was no hounding of him by me - the fact that OTHER users had to instruct you to leave me alone belies that statement. And let's recall that you did in fact use your talk page to allow anonymous users who were harassing me in real life, to post all kinds of nonsense about me. In fact you were downright gleeful about it. There's very few things as disgusting and distasteful as when an abuser tries to play the role of the victim. Volunteer Marek (talk) 18:53, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Bleh, not sure how much I want to get involved here, but Volunteer Marek, please. You complain about Malick78 making "accusation without proof" and in the same breath accuse Malick78 of "lying" four times and siccing anonymous editors on youentertaining the accusations of abusive anons...without proof. Please, both of you, try to leave the past behind you and avoid each other in the future.

@Malick78, I appreciate the thought behind this post, but you don't need to defend yourself on my account. If you're up for a little light reading, I highly recommend this Meatball essay. ~Adjwilley (talk) 03:30, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

You complain about Malick78 making "accusation without proof" and in the same breath accuse Malick78 of "lying" four times... ......without proof. Sigh. Well, yes. Please think for a second. He accused me of outing him. Without proof. I denied it. He accused me of it again. Without proof. What exactly am *I* supposed to "prove" here? That I didn't out him? Am I supposed to prove that I didn't kill John F. Kennedy too? If I say somewhere "Adjwilley beats his wife!", and you say "no, that's not true", then I say it again somewhere, "Adjwilley beats his wife!", then you say "you're lying!", would you really expect others to *require* you to prove that you're not in fact beating your wife? Like I said, think for a second first. It is up to a person making allegations and attacking others to back up their claims, not to the person being attacked!

Nevermind that what he is calling "outing" wouldn't even be "outing", even if it did somehow happen, which it didn't. How about I "accidentally" email you under my real name, then for the next couple years I'll go around telling everyone that Adjwilley "outed" me.

If you want proof of him enabling (not "siccing") the anon IPs you can look through the history of his talk page yourself.

Unfortunately, that "meatball" essay works only in functional communities. Not dysfunctional ones, such as ones, for example, where baseless accusations are cheap, and it's those who are being baselessly accused that are required to "prove" their innocence. Sheesh.

Goodnight. Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:42, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

VM, I believe the Meatball essay applies to you too, though your point about the "ideal" community is well taken. I think though that in practice it is possible to follow the essay most of the time. (I try to do it myself, and other than the occasional clarifying when someone has misunderstood my intention, pointing out a lack of evidence, or correcting a particularly bad accusation, I think I do a pretty good job. And I do occasionally beat my wife at Chess, Settlers of Catan, and Bananagrams, by the way.) Anyway, and this is just my opinion, you shouldn't have to defend yourself against the "outing" accusations, other than to say that you didn't do what he thinks you did when the occasion demands (like at AN/I). You certainly shouldn't go on the offensive by calling him a liar.

Re: It is up to a person making allegations and attacking others to back up their claims, not to the person being attacked! I agree 100%. You don't have to prove anything when he's making accusations about you, but if you start making allegations about him (enabling anons, lying, possibly socking...) then it's you who needs to start linking diffs. But I'm not asking for diffs here...especially if some of these issues are as old as 5 years. I really think both of you need to let this go. ~Adjwilley (talk) 07:40, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Adjwilley, thanks for your time and thoughts. I did try to put the past behind me but I started the Murzyn page and if VM edits it by mis-citing sources that were correctly quoted and then being rude when I ask him to desist, then problems are bound to happen. Over and out and thanks once again. Malick78 (talk) 23:13, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

On African American vs. Black American...

Okay what we need to understand is that the United States was formed on the basis of White Supremacy. Therefore, the entire cultural and historical identity of black people in the U.S. was formed by victimization by white supremacy/race/racism.

So the descendants of slaves in America are "Black Americans." "African American" is still useful as an umbrella term to refer to them AND African immigrants to the U.S., but "Black American" is us. "Black" is what we are now. This is how we think of ourselves, and that's what we call each other. "African American" is technically correct, but it's not our name.

See, "black" exists outside the U.S. as well, in the UK, there is an article for "black British." They have a different history.

We we don't REALLY identify with "African" except in name. It's really a PC name shoved on us without consensus. We call each other "black" but since we're in the U.S, we can be reasonable certain we're all black Americans. "Black" can either refer to the race, more internationally, or a local ethnic group.

But PLEASE get rid of "African American." It's really grinding my gears. And it also gets frustrating when people are too scared to call us what we are, or use "African American" when they're not even talking about people in the U.S. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DPhBeast (talk • contribs)

Hi DPhBeast, thank you for the message. That's good to know. Is there a particular article you had in mind when you were writing this? Some use of the term somewhere you'd like me to fix perhaps? ~Adjwilley (talk) 05:27, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

On the name of the article "African Americans," I'd prefer it to be named "Black Americans," but I don't have the authority to do so. Also, on the article on African Immigration to the U.S, I think it may be best to name that article "African Americans," then qualify on that article that the term can also be used to describe black Americans and/or those who have integrated with them.

Crossing vs. deletion

I'm puzzled by your comment apparently saying I shouldn't be concerned about this. First, I believe that crossing is generally (and strongly) encouraged over deletion in a talk page type setting. Second, in this particular case, another user has admitted that two of her allegations of misrepresentation against me were based on false statements. (all of them are, but those two were particularly easy to falsify.) Deleting the accusation, or rewriting it with a completely different rationale, is not fair to me, because it renders my (correct/conceded) accusations of misrepresentation in the evidence unintelligible. Steeletrap (talk) 20:51, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

As I understand it, strikethrough is encouraged in threaded talk page discussions when you're editing your own comments that others have already responded to. Carolmooredc's edit was to Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Austrian economics/Evidence which is not a talk page, nor is it threaded. What I don't know is whether it was responded to on the evidence page before she removed it, but I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference whether it's stricken or removed completely. I imagine the arbs are most interested in the evidence itself, not so much the process in which the evidence was compiled. (A stricken diff that's not evidence on the evidence page isn't very helpful to anyone.) Like I said on the talk page, if you think Carol's mistake is serious enough to be used as evidence, you can add it to your own section. I commented because it seemed that Carol was acting in good faith and the strong language in the section heading ("...attempt to cover-up (admitedly) false allegations...") and subsequent piling on seemed out of proportion to what Carolmooredc actually did. ~Adjwilley (talk) 05:46, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on changes to the AfC mailing list

Hello Adjwilley! There is a discussion that your input is requested on! I look forward to your comments, thoughts, opinions, criticisms, and questions!

If you wish to opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself from the mailing list or alternatively to opt-out of all massmessage mailings, you may add Category:Opted-out of message delivery to your user talk page.

This message was composed and sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of {{U|Technical 13}} 18:18, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Articles for creation March 2014 Backlog Elimination Drive

Hello Adjwilley:

WikiProject AFC is holding a month long Backlog Elimination Drive!
The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from March 1, 2014 to March 31, 2014.

Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive.
There is a backlog of over 1700 articles, so start reviewing articles! Visit the drive's page and help out!

WP:AGF

Your criticisms of "stalking" are not only hypocritical (since they omit Carol, who admits to having followed me to pages recently) but false. It makes little sense that I would "follow" Carol to an article she hasn't frequented for a year. On the other hand, it makes a lot of sense that I (someone who has previously edited pages on anti-Semitism and the BLP of Alan Dershowitz, and is a proud Ashkenazi jew) would correct a misrepresentation of Dersh's criticism of an anti-Semitic book. Carol just happened to be the one who distorted his criticism. She frequents pages on jewish subjects and tendentiously pushes for the inclusion of 'anti-Zionist' themes (was one of only a few regular editors to the deleted page "Allegations of Jewish Control of the Media", and pushed against its deletion until changing course after criticism. She also is incompetent. So while it is a coincidence that she was the one I reverted, it was hardly an unforseeable one. Steeletrap (talk) 06:02, 5 March 2014 (UTC)