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Revision as of 00:57, 11 June 2014

In this world, hatred has never been defeated by hatred. Only love can overcome hatred. This is an ancient and eternal law. –Dhammapada (1:5)

Jimi Hendrix posthumous discography

Hello Viriditas, If you have some time (and the interest), would you mind taking a look at Jimi Hendrix posthumous discography? I nominated this as a FLC over six weeks ago and haven't gotten much useful feedback. I have the resources to do what is necessary to make it a FL. Your comments would be appreciated. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:43, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Ojorojo. I'll try to find some free time in the next few days. I'm definitely interested, but I've tried to remove myself from most Jimi Hendrix topics due to the persistent, how do I say this nicely, "eccentricity" of some of the more colorful people I've encountered there. I'm speaking, of course, of editors like User:Jameselmo (no, I won't ECHO him) who added lots of original research and a bit of added nonsense to Hendrix articles in the past. For this reason, I have to ask, have you vetted the entire article for accuracy? Viriditas (talk) 08:15, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Also, you may want to review the WP:FLCR criteria and check that meets each one. Is the list currently stable? Viriditas (talk) 08:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

That editor hasn't done much in the last year or so (whew). Jimi Hendrix and Are You Experienced are now featured articles and Axis and Electric Ladyland are nearly GAs. It seems that the will is there to keep them free of BS. Except for some disruption by a banned socketpuppet in July '13 and a newbie recently (who did the same to many other discographies), the two JH discographies have been stable. Beginning in Dec. '13, I have made substantial changes to both, reformatting and adding a lot of material, while weeding out a lot. I've verified all of the information with at least one source and am confident that whatever inaccuracies are left are minor. Before a final fact checking, I hope to find out if the scope and layout are suitable, etc. (nobody else has looked at this critically). Meanwhile, I'll go through the FL criteria and other FL discographies again and compare. (BTW, I recently read a bit about the Brotherhood of Eternal Love-Rainbow Bridge-Owsley-Leary connection; may explain some of those "eccentricities"). —Ojorojo (talk) 14:07, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

I've reviewed the criteria and several longer FL discographies (David Bowie discography, Metallica discography, Red Hot Chili Peppers discography) and feel that this compares favorably. Here are some thoughts:

• Even split into the Jimi Hendrix discography and this posthumous one, the Hendrix discographies are among the longest. Maybe they could be split more or differently: separate videography, discography as accompanist, live discography, etc. (Madonna has 3: albums, singles, and videos).
• The lead in many discographies start: "The discography of ABC consists of x albums, y singles, z compilations... They formed in 1999 with A on vocals, B on guitar" etc. (the Led Zeppelin discography begins with the fragment "The discography of the English rock band Led Zeppelin.") I don't think that adds anything, but maybe a different introduction would be appropriate.
• Nearly all have up to ten columns for various countries chart positions. I don't think this works so well for older releases, before rock became more international. Although Hendrix charted in nearly 20 countries, US and UK releases dominate and most of the rest only have a few. Picking 10 countries would be problematic (the same 10 for the whole discography or the 10 most popular for each section or ?) and would still leave many "–" in positions. The "Other" column seems to be a better solution and leaves more room for release details.
• The layouts for this and the other discographies consist of a series of charts for the different sections (studio albums, live albums, singles, videos, etc.). Maybe adding graphics/images/audio samples or section introductory text would break up the monotony and make it more visually appealing.

I started with the Hendrix posthumous discography as a FLC first, because it is more difficult. However, whatever is done should also consider the Hendrix discography as well. —Ojorojo (talk) 05:33, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll take a look later tonight/tomorrow. Viriditas (talk) 19:56, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Looks like I shouldn't have started with the difficult one. I'll work on the original discography and maybe it will get a better reception. Hope all is well. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:50, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

X-Men

While there is no Themes section as suggested, I did try to expand both the coverage and writing, particularly regarding the film's development. I tried my best to add references to the characters I could get info on, but some are too irrelevant and earned no results. Any way, I don't think it deserves a quick-fail, only that it needs a thorough review - or any kind of review given I'm waiting since March! igordebraga ≠ 04:28, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, I'm sympathetic to your position. I think you have added themes, but you added them to the cast section. Do you think any of the material in the cast section should be placed into a new section? Maybe you should go back and read the last GA review to see what I'm talking about. If you have irrelevant, unsourced material that can't be sourced, it's not going to pass GA, and the last reviewer talked specifically about this. Viriditas (talk) 19:58, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Native cuisine of Hawaii

I believe I once told you patience is a virture. I trust now that Candelabracadabara is now indef blocked, you Cullen, Northamerica1000, and Mark Miller can work on the article, as you all seem to have interest in it. I look forward to seeing the finished product. --kelapstick 11:50, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. Viriditas (talk) 19:53, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

BTW, if you squint your eyes, it looks like patience is a vulture. Think about that for a bit. :) Viriditas (talk) 04:29, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

That's probably because there is only one r in virtue, ha! Spelling has never been my strong suit, cheers, --kelapstick 20:42, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Hawaii Edit-a-thon

Viriditas, I've been looking at Hawaiian religion, mythology, and folk lore and it seems to me that there has been a desperate need for work to be done here. I think what we need to do is have an edit-a-thon. I'm thinking we should reach out to museums such as the Kauaʻi Museum and the Bishop Museum to provide coodination and help find interested editors and then try to arrange for the edit a thon to be a one of O'ahu's public libraries. The Aeia library is scheduled to open in July 2014 and this might be a great event for them to help advertise the new library. The library would be a great place to find books on Hawaiian religion and we could hold a quick tutorial on NPOV, sourcing, and editing style beforehand. Would you be interested in getting on board with that? I'm not sure which island you live on, would you be able to make it over to O'ahu?--v/r - TP 20:41, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi. My exact location in Hawaii has been posted on the project page since July 2005. I used to work closely with someone from the Bishop Museum on Misplaced Pages, but I don't believe they work there anymore. I think your ideas sound great, and you should know, there's a lot of good resources in the Islands to get your message out. For example, Hawaii Public Radio has a community events calendar announcement on either HPR1 or HPR2 several times throughout the day. There are also at least two technology-related programs that would be happy to have you on as a guest to talk about what you are trying to do, such as "Bytemarks Cafe" and "Tech Nation". And before you say, "nobody listens to radio", people are stuck in their cars in traffic on Oahu all the time. Thousands of people listen to those shows. Plus, they are also streaming online. I'm not sure how much help I can be as I'm quite busy with work. You sound like you know what needs to be done, but trying to arrange it in under a month is beyond my ken at this point. I think the Bishop Museum has an educational outreach program that might be able to hook you up with educators and their students. I think this would work really well for students. Viriditas (talk) 00:28, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps a month is too ambitious. Are you aware of any Hawaiian holidays ~3-6 months out that we might be able to do this for?--v/r - TP 03:23, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

FWIW, I think it would also be a good idea to check some of the standard reference books like the Eliade/Jones Encyclopedia of Religion. I think it has an article on Hawaiian religion, and some others on what might broadly be called Polynesian religions, with some at least decent reference lists. I seem to remember an older, maybe even PD, reference series of reference books on world mythology with some coverage of Hawaiian themes. I can check on that and if I find it maybe even upload it to Commons or something. And I imagine some of the editors with databank subscriptions from The Misplaced Pages Library might have more. I have myself access to a few databanks at least, and would be more than willing to help on this matter if someone reminds me when and if you all start. John Carter (talk) 21:59, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

• I've started a page Misplaced Pages:GLAM/US/Hawaii/2014_Makahiki_Edit-a-thon if you are interested in participating. You might also want to add yourself as a GLAM contact here. I'm reaching out to WMDC about support and a possible grant to pay for stationary, signage, and other coordination needs. If we get going on this, I'll reach out to some folks I know in public affairs and see if they can get me a POC with local radio.--v/r - TP 21:07, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
  • I think you should shoot for either "Bytemarks Cafe" or "Tech Nation", and I know from listening to both that they would love to have you on. Also, the hosts of "Bytemarks Cafe" are very much in touch with the main members of the technical community in Hawaii, so you should probably get in touch with them anyway, because they will connect you up with the right people. I've got too much on my plate right now to participate. Viriditas (talk) 21:14, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
    • Contact info. Viriditas (talk) 21:14, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Go Phightins! 02:57, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

DYK proposal

Please ping me when and if you ever get a proposal started about how to reform the DYK process. John Carter (talk) 22:00, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

John, can you help me identify the main areas of concern? For example, do you know if the current DYK guidelines adequately appeal to our main policies? So far, I see these specific concerns, but there are probably more:

1. WP:NOT: specifically WP:GRATUITOUS (offensive content), WP:NOTNEWS (unencyclopedic gossip), WP:INDISCRIMINATE (trivia of all kinds)
2. WP:NPOV: specifically WP:UNDUE (minority viewpoints), WP:IMPARTIAL (neither endorsing nor rejecting a particular point of view)

As you can see, many of these apply directly to our recent DYK issues. Viriditas (talk) 23:57, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

User:Casliber and User:Graeme Bartlett would probably be good people to help with this. SFAIK, some of our basic article guidelines can't be easily made to apply to DYK hooks, particularly regarding proponents of pseudoscientific or fringe or discredited theories or what some might call heresies. In a lot of cases, the best hook that can be made on some proponents of woo is something along the lines of "DYK that thought ?" Such a hook might be one of the best potential hooks for Arthur Conan Doyle regarding fairies, for instance, and for a lot of articles on early heresies or modern divergent beliefs. Applying GRATUITOUS, IMPARTIAL, and even WEIGHT in a lot of these cases might be a problem too, particularly for new articles. I remember one bio of a Russian saint I put together had as a hook that her biography said Stalin covertly came to consult her about the upcoming end of WWII, which I don't think is necessarily accepted by Stalin's biographers. NOTNEWS and INDISCRIMINATE would be easier to perhaps strengthen the application of.

That being the case, maybe it might work to make some focus on how the editors involved conduct themselves. Both Barney the barney barney and OccultZone in recent incidents seem to have had issues not with the hooks or their content, but with their personal conduct. Conduct issues could definitely be clearer in the relevant guidelines. Particularly useful would be having guidelines that someone with a distinct self-declared POV should abstain from discussing hooks relating to that subject, and something like that I think is doable.

Part of the problem is also do the lack of staffing at DYK, and the occasionaly time-consuming nature of examining hooks. I might propose an experimental period with a smaller number of DYKs which have received multiple positive reviews on the main page per day or period, and add a link to another distinct page containing a broader number of current DYKs. It might get more attention to the DYK process too, for multiple reasons.

Mind you, I actually hadn't given this a lot of thought before and a lot of what I said above is just off the top of my head. John Carter (talk) 16:46, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, this sounds like a good idea. I'll have a think too. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:41, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Ramones

		The Reviewer Barnstar
		For your excellent and thorough review of Too Tough to Die and for helping me fix certain problems (while leaving me some good advice for further improvements), I thought you might appreciate this. If you need help with anything or simply need a favor, please don't hesitate to send me a message. Thank you for your hard work! CrowzRSA 16:14, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Molly Crabapple

If you want. I have something else that I'm trying to get done this evening anyway. But what's wrong with the article? Nightscream (talk) 00:53, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Everything is wrong with the article. What's right with the article? The article is in terrible shape, covered in maintenance and cite needed tags, and is written in an unencyclopedic manner. Why do I even have to tell you this? Surely, you can see it? Just take a week off and let me work on it. Not the evening, the week. I say this because you and I do not work well together. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 00:56, 11 June 2014 (UTC)