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Revision as of 15:09, 1 July 2014

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Ideal sources for Misplaced Pages's health content are defined in the guideline Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Alcohol (drug). PubMed provides review articles from the past five years (limit to free review articles) The TRIP database provides clinical publications about evidence-based medicine. Other potential sources include: Centre for Reviews and Dissemination and CDC

Moved article

My first edit in this article was moved from Alcoholic beverage#Drug were I wrote about it first. --David Hedlund (talk) 04:12, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Alcohol is a drug

The name of this article, alcohol (drug), will hopefully improve Misplaced Pages articles significantly by using a link that clearly states that alcohol is a drug.

Drug facilitated sexual assault (DFSA) is one of many articles that missed this point at several places. For instance, the lead said: "Drug-facilitated sexual assault (DFSA), also known as predator rape, is a sexual assault carried out after the victim has become incapacitated due to having consumed drugs or alcohol." In fact, alcohol is the most commonly used predator drug in DFSAs. --David Hedlund (talk) 05:09, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

 Added I replaced "alcohol or drugs" with "alcohol or other drugs" in over 100 articles. --David Hedlund (talk) 08:13, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Based on what sources David? In every one of those 100 places did you also add 1-2 good secondary sources supporting this? Note, I do not disagree with you. The point is, your opinion does NOT matter, on this or other subjects; editor opinions do not belong in Misplaced Pages. If you continue to see WP as a place for you to promote particular opinions without providing a firm basis in scholarly citation—as opposed to the opinions of subject matter experts, whatever those opinions might be—you and we are in for real trouble. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 10:29, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Mostly I linked alcohol (drug) in articles whose context was drug-related, medicine-related, sobriety, related to religious laws or alcohol laws, or if the point was to consume alcohol in general, rather than alcoholic beverages in particular. --David Hedlund (talk) 05:26, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

A new article headed in the wrong direction

I will make 3 simple suggestions, so that I do not have to become a scourge to this article:

• Absolutely no more added text to this article, unless it is drawn from a reliable secondary source—scientific review, advanced undergraduate or graduate textbook, book chapter or monograph. To put in unreferenced material, or to put material in based on a primary source, is against WP:Verifiable and WP:OR, respectively. I will, as I see, start to revert additions of factual, non-common knowledge text that is added without proper verifiability.
• The editor(s) that added most of the text that is unreferenced should immediately add the citations from which he or she drew the material, or he or she should remove the unreferenced material until he can properly source it. The approach of "Just trust me, it is true." is not how Misplaced Pages works. The fact that there are many other bad articles here does not make it good, or wise, to add another weak article.
• No more bare URL citations, or other poor web citations. Web pages are a benefit if they allow easier access to an already good source, and you can give the details of that source, so if the link fails, it can be relinked. Being able to access something online, by itself, does not make a source acceptable. The site "chemises.com", and other non-refereed/non-scholarly websites are NOT acceptable sources for encyclopedic content about scientific subjects.

All I have to say on this. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 10:24, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

PoV flag

I have opened a discussion at wp:ANI as I am concerned by the widespread editing of articles ranging from Andy Rooney to Sleep. Looking at the statement about the creation of the article for the purpose of making it clear that the Alcohol is a drug, it seems clear that a PoV (one I think I probably would support, but that is entirely a personal point of view) push is the stated intention of the article and associated widespread edits.Unfriend14 (talk) 23:33, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Should be "Ethanol", not "Alcohol"

The article repeatedly uses the term "alcohol" - even in the lead! - incorrectly. "Alcohol" is the name of a class of chemicals. It includes hundreds of compounds, most of which are not consumable. For example, methanol (wood alcohol) is an alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) is an alcohol. The word "alcohol" should be changed to "ethanol" in the lead, and in at least enough other places to illustrate that we know what we are talking about. I see that this article has been controversial, so I am not going to boldly change it right now; I'd like input from others about how Misplaced Pages uses the word "alcohol". --MelanieN (talk) 16:06, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

If experts agree on this then it should be changed. I have made some changes in the article but don't know whether they will be well received. The article is confusing. Wahrmund (talk) 16:44, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the good faith edit, but I reverted it. In CHEMISTRY, an alcohol is an organic molecule with an -OH group on it. Most have no psychoactive effect and are not even consumable. It's only in MEDICINE that "alcohol" is considered a psychoactive drug. Overwhelmingly this is ethanol, although I see the author has provided a few poorly-sourced claims that other alcohols can be included in the category. I'd like to make that clearer in the lead - that when we say "alcohol" in this context we are talking about ethanol - but again, it may be that Misplaced Pages allows the use of "alcohol" as synonymous with "drinking alcohol" so I'll wait for more input. --MelanieN (talk) 17:35, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree this must be clarified. Alcohols are a diverse group of organic compounds characterized by having one or more -OH functional groups. That therefore includes glucose and many other sugars, glycerol, phenol and many other compounds that have no "drug" implications whatsoever, some of them essential constituents of our diet. The article needs to be totally clear about what alcohol (drug) means in this context. Plantsurfer (talk) 18:14, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Let's work on a better wording for the lead. Here for reference are the current lead sentences: In medicine, alcohol, colloquially known as beverage alcohol, or drinking alcohol, is a class of chemical compounds with anxiolytic, euphoriant, depressant, hypnotic and sedative, and physical dependence effects. Alcohol is one of the most commonly abused drugs in the world (Meropol, 1996) and part of the drinking culture. How about something like this, feel free to edit. --MelanieN (talk) 18:43, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

(draft lead sentences) Some alcohols, usually ethanol which is commonly referred to as "alcohol" in this context, are consumed for enjoyment, for recreational purposes, or for their anxiolytic, euphoriant, depressant, hypnotic and sedative effects. The most common mode of consumption is the drinking of alcoholic beverages; it may also be consumed via inhalation or other routes. Alcohol is one of the most commonly abused drugs in the world. (Meropol, 1996)

ok, but still lacks balance. It still allows the interpretation that other alcohols are significant drugs. Overwhelmingly, the alcohol used as a drug is ethanol. The drug use of all other alcohols is trivial by comparison. Plantsurfer (talk) 18:55, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

OK, let me try again. I agree with you BTW. --MelanieN (talk) 18:58, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

(draft lead sentence 2) Ethanol, commonly referred to as alcohol in this context, is widely consumed for enjoyment, for recreational purposes, or for its anxiolytic, euphoriant, depressant, hypnotic and sedative effects. The most common mode of consumption is the drinking of alcoholic beverages; it may also be consumed via inhalation or other routes. Alcohol is one of the most commonly abused drugs in the world. (Meropol, 1996)

Better. I would say is widely consumed, but otherwise ok. Plantsurfer (talk) 19:10, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I like that; added. Anyone else want to chime in, or shall I go ahead and make the change? I don't want to drag out the discussion because the article is controversial and is getting a lot of attention right now. --MelanieN (talk) 19:17, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and add it. It may not be perfect but it's a lot better than what is there now. Further input welcome. --MelanieN (talk) 20:38, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I like the current version even better. --MelanieN (talk) 14:03, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Fusel Alcohol

This sentence is misleading and is not supported by the cited book:

However, in other beverages, such as Korn, vodka, and lagers, the presence of alcohols other than ethanol is considered fusel alcohols.

1. The book does not specifically call out the three alcoholic beverages shown, so listing them is WP:OR,
2. More importantly, the wikilink to fusel alcohol misrepresents what the book has to say about fusel alcohol:

• The wiki article states that fusel alcohols are byproducts known in German as "bad liquor" that may or may not contribute to hangovers.
• The book states that fusel alcohols are called that because "their formation from amino acids are in conformity with each other" and "are considered to be important aroma factors".

I believe the sentence should be deleted. JoeSperrazza (talk) 16:09, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Template:Drugclassbox

Can anyone please add Template:Drugclassbox to the article? --David Hedlund (Talk) 15:08, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

1. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1010220-overview
2. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1010220-overview
3. Cite error: The named reference ReferenceB was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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