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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kayastha article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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Notable Kayasthas: Names removed

User:Sitush removed the following names form the list of notable Kayasthas. All very notable, all Kayasthas. Justification?

Sitush projects himself as an authority on the subject of castes of India.

• Nagendranath Bose
• Jaiprakash Narayan
• Aurobindo
• Subhashchandra Bose
• Dr. Shanti Swaroop Bhatnagar
• Nandalal Bose
• Maharshi Mahesh Yogi
• Sir Jadunath Sarkar
• Professor Amar Bose, founder of Bose

Malaiya (talk) 02:15, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

WP:V. - Sitush (talk) 14:40, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

@Malaiya Now they have been included. BTW no one is an authority here, we all need references to prove or disprove our edits. No original research is to be done on wikipedia --का.शि.. Kayastha Shiromani , The Second. (talk) 10:04, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Arbitrary heading

please delete this line because kayastha is highly status cast not a lower cast or mixed cast.Please don't make any false statement. this sentence degraded status of a highly status cast. "Kayasthas have therefore also been mentioned as a "mixed caste", combining Brahman-Sudra (lower caste) and sometimes Kshatriya as well." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dinesh11111 (talk • contribs) 13:31, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

It is reliably sourced and various viewpoints are given. Misplaced Pages is not censored. - Sitush (talk) 18:22, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Global and Broad View towards the caste "Kayastha"

" kāya " meaning is "Body" , " Kayastha " meaning is " Those who are born from Body " . "Kaya" and "Kayastha" are Sanskrit words. According to my opinion All living species and non living things are " Kayastha " .

Even "Earth" was born from Sun's body.

I am " Kayastha " .

At least I am the king of my Body. None others.........

Only for body , everything for body. Do not make differentiation between body and mind. Mind is produced from Brain which is the part of the Body.

Date : 15/04/2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.253.76.58 (talk) 15:20, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2014

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Names of many prominent kayastha personalities has not been included. They are Amitabh Bachhan, Sonu Nigam, Shanti Swaroop Bhatnagar, Mukesh (playback singer), Jay Prakash Narayan, Rabindranath Tagore, Bal Thakrey, S.N.Bose, Jagdish Chandra Bose, Padmsree Sharda Sinha, Ravi Shankar Prasad, Shatrughan Sinha, Sri Aurobindo, Manna De. Bhartiya 88 (talk) 12:23, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

The requirements for inclusion are:-

1. An article on enWikipedia
2. A reliable source confirming that the individual is Kayastha

In addition, the Bachchan family, have specifically rejected membership of any castes and therefore are not included in any caste articles

So, lets split your list up:-

• Mukesh (playback singer), Jay Prakash Narayan, Bal Thakrey, S.N.Bose, Padmsree Sharda Sinha - do not appear to have articles
• Amitabh Bachchan, Rabindranath Tagore, Jagadish Chandra Bose, Shatrughan Sinha, Sri Aurobindo, Manna Dey - do not mention Kayastha at all in their articles
• Shanti Swaroop Bhatnagar - mentions Kayastha, but has no source for this
• Sonu Nigam and Ravi Shankar Prasad - have sources, but I need to check on their reliability, before adding the names to the article

- Arjayay (talk) 12:49, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

OK - I have checked the sources and added Sonu Nigam and Ravi Shankar Prasad

I have removed Harivansh Rai Bachchan as per the note above, regarding the Bachcham family

I have removed Munshi Premchand, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and Subhas Chandra Bose as their only references were to Misplaced Pages and their articles do not even mention they are Kayastha

If you can find reliable sources for the names you have mentioned - or those I have removed, please add this information, including the detailed references, to their individual Misplaced Pages articles, before asking for their addition to this article. Arjayay (talk) 14:29, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

• Rabindranath Tagore was not a Kayasth, he was a brahmin. A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was not a Kayasth, he was a Suvarnavanik. Harivansh Rai Bachchan was a Kayastha. I have his autobiography.
• People are born in a caste. Caste is a birth based classification. That is why it is termed a "jati" (or "zat" in Urdu). It is not a club that people can join and resign at will. Nobel laureate Toni Morrison called Bill Clinton "the first Black president", and Bill Clinton loved being called "the first Black president". But being "white" is by birth. A white can marry an black (Harivansh Rai Bachchan's second wife was a Khatri), but would still be white. Malaiya (talk) 23:21, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

• Yes, these do have articles: Mukesh (singer), Jayaprakash Narayan, Bal Thakre, Satyendra Nath Bose How can people who are so famous not have an article? Provided the spelling is right. Malaiya (talk) 23:28, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
• I'm quite sure Munshi Premchand, Subhas Chandra Bose were Kayasthas. What do you need? (No, I cannnot get a notarized declaration from them stating that they are Kayastha).Malaiya (talk) 23:28, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Ironic: Real Kayasthas excluded and non-Kayasthas included

There have been quite a few Kayasthas of distinction. Unfortunately most of them had been excluded for reasons that seem quite frivolous. A few are included now, but most are still excluded.

Which is indeed ironic because the editors of the article have insisted on including a non-Kayastha Raja Todarmal, well known to have been a Khatri. A groups that includes India's first president Dr. Rajendra Prasad, the best known Hindu monk of recent times Swami Vivekanada and a national revolutionary Subhas Chandra Bose does not need a really need a Mughal courtier, specially one who was certainly not a Kayasth.

Some of the oldest known references to Kayasthas are specifically excluded because they happened to have been Buddhist. On the other hand the article dwells quite a bit on supposed questionable descent from Brahmins. For all that the Kayasthas have achieved, it is not necessary at all to claim descent from a "higher" caste.

Some of the active editors like Sitush, are unfamiliar with the Indian society, and thus can hardly be blamed. However some of them like Ekdalian are apparently Indian and presumably Kayasth. That is ironic. One would expect them to know. Malaiya (talk) 00:59, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Malaiya, please note that there is NO intentional bias here. Statement(s) you want to incorporate must be reliably sourced and relevant, that's all. Regarding notables, a standard is being followed, that there should be valid references referring to them as Kayasthas. And I have not introduced the same. And for your information, there are other editors involved as well. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 07:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Todar Mal is mentioned as Kayastha in reliable sources, although there is another opinion as well. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 09:01, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Discussion on current version of this Article https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Kayastha&oldid=618943617

Come discuss. Kayastha Shiromani, The Second. 08:41, 29 July 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kayastha Shiromani II (talk • contribs)

Pros of this version:

1. Discusses the family tree and various sub-castes which were missing in the previous ones.

2. Enumerates some of the very prominent Kayastha like Kashmiri King Lalitaditya.

3. Draws authority from various religious sources as well as secular ones like Kalhana's Rajatarangini.

4. Gives authentic refs. to various books including Shloka no. and chapters.

5. Gives a general description of traditions and customs.

6. List of Kayastha much more elaborate and representative of the achievements.

7. Deals with various sub-groups different social and ethnic diversity within the Kayastha umbrella caste.

8. Better than previous version which was weakly written and lacked information and references about the caste.

9. Though it draws too much from myths yet this is very relevant as caste are derived so in India with not much scientific laws to guide such things.

Cons:

1. Looks much like mythological fiction at a few places.

2. Pro- Kayastha bent.

3. More emphasis should have been given to secular achievers such as Dr. JC Bose, Dr. SS Bhatnagar etc.

4. Too intent on promoting Kayasthas as Brahmins.

5. The section "other information" not written objectively.

6. Dead references.

Kayastha Shiromani, The Second. 08:52, 29 July 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kayastha Shiromani II (talk • contribs)

does not cite secondary sources for claims of Kayastha origins at the Puranas, Smritis and Shrutis. The referenced historical "Origins" and "History" of Kayasthas are removed. WP:RS are removed and non-RS like and are used. "Unfortunate case of the Kayasthas of Bengal" are pure WP:POV and WP:OR. "Prominent Kayasthas", "The Family Tree" and "Origin legends" are completely devoid any references.Redtigerxyz 10:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

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