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Uh, I just copied it from Belarus or something history and changed the words. Can you take care of procedure? --] 19:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC) Uh, I just copied it from Belarus or something history and changed the words. Can you take care of procedure? --] 19:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

== Incident ==

I was merely informing Boris of the horrible (now questionable) news. He was the only one who had significant contact with HRE, to not get contacted by ]. I obviously thought Boris would like to know if something had happened to him. I don't know why you'd want a checkuser, you all of all people should understand my message ( since it was written in Serbo-Croatian because you speak Serbo-Croatian). This has been my only edit since getting blocked, and it was to inform Boris of a something rather important, and that had nothing to do with Misplaced Pages, Serb-propaganda, Anti-Croatinism, or whatever the heck else, all these things are set aside when horrible things like this happen. I didn't want Boris to just stumble upon it days later after realizing HRE wasn't there anymore. I hope you understand, and let's hope HRE is okay. Are you we okay now? (Sorry I put a rather pissed off comment earlier on the RfA talk page, I've been accused more than Hipi Zhdripi, yet there are no new users editing any Serb related articles) ] 22:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

:: No problem. Have you heard anything new about HRE? ] 22:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Revision as of 22:54, 4 July 2006

Archive:

List of Croatians

Hello. Thanks for the message about the above. Unfortunately I would have to agree with the reply you received on WP:ANI that it's not a large amount of vandalism. One of the articles I have on my watchlist has the same problem, but, while slighty annoying, isn't too much trouble. So, for the moment, I would suggest continuing to revert any vandalism changes, if it gets bad (i.e. multiple people vandalising multiple times a day) then you can post on WP:RPP to request temporary protection.

Wrt the anon user, as it appears to be a static ip address, messages sent to the ip address talk page will be received by them. You mentioned that you think it mught be another user, this is only relevant in extreme cases (e.g. user evading bans and such like).

I must say, I'm not a great fan of list articles due to verification problems. To me a list should either be a) verifiably complete (e.g. football teams in X league) or b) comprised solely of notable (blue linked) items. Having an unbounded list with red links (like this one) is too open to abuse as it lacks sources. Take for example, "Antun Albini - architect" - there is no source given to show who he is, so other editors have no way of knowing whether the entry is valid or not. That's one of the reasons I'd hesitate to put it on my watchlist, as my preference would be to first remove all red links without sources, as per WP:V, and revert any new additions that were unsourced (either by not having an article or source). That to me, would be only way to deal with it fairly, as otherwise editors adding new material would have a valid critism of "why remove my unsourced material, when the unsourced material there is untouched".

I would suggest that a good thing to do would be find references for those people on the list, as if you ask for help stopping vandalism/unsourced info being added, you might find that more gets removed than you expected! Regards, MartinRe 09:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

More copyvio?

Compare Lora prison camp with http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR640022002?open&of=ENG-HRV --Ante Perkovic 09:54, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Certainly is - I've <blockquoted> it for now. I'm working on a complete rewrite of this article but life just seems to get in the way of wikipedia - Peripitus (Talk) 10:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
The Lora prison certainly deserves its page and I am glad that someone who is not from Balkans (I'm really sick of serbian propagandist here) will tako care of it. If you need some help in translation from croatian, feel free to contact me. --Ante Perkovic 10:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Your reverting

<copy>

You keep reverting the article Neo-Nazism without explanation. I am ready for discussion and have provided my arguments on the talk page, but you have not replied anything sensible. I do not intend to engage in an edit war. Therefore, I will give you a day or two to explain your position. After that, I will assume you are acting in bad faith and invite administrators to sort this out. --Zmaj 14:19, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Copied from User_talk:Zmaj:
As I said - you did not explain anything. To make you partially happy - I removed just two refereces. No need for re-wording the last paragraph--64.18.16.251 19:49, 8 June 2006 (UTC)<end copy>
Funny thing, You removed exactly those references that proves croatian police doing their work. Talking about NPOV... right.. like you are capable of ever writing something afirmative about Croatia. No, your prejadices are just to strong for that to happen.
Another funny thing is that one of the links is the one that I wrote you about (remember "thank you for proving my point" discussion?). --Ante Perkovic 08:22, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
The article is not about Croatian police - either, they are pretending working against the Ustashe. Anyway, I've put back the reference I removed before. Hope it'll make you happy.--64.18.16.251 13:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)--64.18.16.251 13:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

</copy>

Re: Croatian vandalism

The range 4.0.0.0 - 4.255.255.255 (16,777,216 addresses) is all the same ISP, see , so three of the four IPs are most likely the same person. The fourth appears to be a different ISP, but could quite possibly be the same person using a different service . — Jun. 9, '06 <freak|talk>

Croatian Serbs

I told you hundert times, cause it will confuse reader. Do you understand now? Luka Jačov 17:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I ask you 3 simple yes-or-no questions on your talk page. I don't see the answers. --Ante Perkovic

I c u r talking to yourself now. You have gone totaly mad. :D. Luka Jačov 20:04, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Block

You have been blocked for editing Misplaced Pages for next 24 hours for edit warring on Serbs of Croatia. As you can see here, as a result of last edit war there, I promised to block undiscussed reverts. Here you can find link to your undiscussed revert. After your block expires, you might wan't to join discussion here. --Dijxtra 15:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I did explain every possible edit I make and I was blocked because Dijxtra obviously didn't have enought time to analyse every possible edit related to this edit-war.

The text we are edit-waring about is this:

According to the Croatian census 2001 , most Serbs of Croatia declared that they speak Croatian. The opinion on the diaspora population has not been polled and the data for them is unavailable.

Luka Jačov is insisting that census data on language is irrelevant to Serbs of Croatia#Language because it will "confuse readers".

Let's make detailed chronology of edit war on. Since I (and Zmaj too, after a while) have been blocked for making "unexplained reverts", let's go back to my first revert and follow the story afterwords...

Timeline

  • 16:36, 26 May 2006 Dijxtra warns Next person that makes undiscussed revert will be blocked for 24 hours


  • 08:10, 8 June 2006 Luka Jačov explaines the change he is about to make with words "What they declare is merely political preference and this will only make confusion among readers."
  • 08:14, 8 June 2006 Luka Jačov changes the text and deletes part including valid reference to census results




  • 10:15, 8 June 2006 Zmaj returnes the referenced text, but removes some irrelevant bits
  • 10:15, 8 June 2006 Zmaj explaines the change he made


  • 12:57, 8 June 2006 Luka Jačov deletes disputed text
  • 12:57, 8 June 2006 Luka Jačov explaines its change with words "It is not cause we are talking about what they speak not what they declare."












  • 20:18, 9 June 2006 Zmaj returnes disputed text with comment "Estavisti, "come now really" is no argument; please go to the talk page to justify your reverts", without changing Talk:Serbs of Croatia. This was the reason for blocking.





  • 20:51, 10 June 2006 Luka Jačov, reverts page to his last version, effectively deleting Joy's usefull contribution to the last letter.

Comment

First, I must remind you that Dijxtra's rule was introdiced primarily because of Jacov's behaviour. Jacov was also responsile for blocking the article in the first place, see Talk:Serbs of Croatia#accuracy disputed (Luka Jačov deleting references)

After the page has been unlocked, Jacov started reverting changes without even trying to discuss it:

  • 04:43, 24 May 2006 Jacov reverted the article with comment "no time 2 disscuss"
  • 09:09, 24 May 2006 Jacov reverted the article with comment "I ll discuss it later"
  • 12:25, 26 May 2006 I warned him that he must discuss his changes

I called Dijxtra and this led to this new rule by Dijxtra.

Now, regarding the edit-war after setting the rule:

Technically speaking, I (Ante Perkovic) did, at 18:06, 9 June 2006, make revert without changing any talk page.

I must admit that Jacov did make a change to some talk page every time he made a change to the article.

So, technically speaking, I did break the Dijxtra's self-invented rule, and Jacov didn't.

Unfortunatelly, Jacov's "changes" were almost completely limited to reverting page to is last version regardles of the fact that, in the meantime, some people made considerable effort to improve the article. As an example, see his change from 20:51, 10 June 2006. This is not the first time he showed disrespect for other user's contributions.

Regarding commenting changes:

First, I must admit that I totally overlooked "Dijxtra's rule". I commented my changes not because Dijxtra told me to but because I do it anyway.

Since Dijxtra set the rule, I made alltogether 4 changes to Serbs of Croatia. First 3 changes were accompanied with alltogether 3 comments to Talk:Serbs of Croatia and additional 3 comments to User talk:Luka Jačov. Since Jacov kept ignoring my questions on his talk page (see timeline), I made one last (4th) revert without any comment on any talk page. I wrote the only reasonably comment I could think of at that time - "REV, Jacov keeps avoiding my simple yes/no questions"

On the oter side, Jacov decided to "play by the rules". He did remember the rule set by Dijxtra and decided to make a "trap" for me by making endless reverts with poor (but regular) explanation until I, having nothing to add without senslessly repeating myself, made a revert without actually changing any talk page (but, I did write a comment, by the way!). When that finally happened, Jacov quickly contacted Dijxtra and reminded him about his rule. Dijxtra had no choise, but to block a few users, despite his feeling of "being manipulated by Luka Jacov".

What strikes me even more here is that, if I just copied some of previous explanations to the bottom of the Talk:Serbs of Croatia, I guess I wouldn't be blocked! You must agree that this is absurd!

Regarding blocking of Zmaj, if we suppose that Jacov comments didn't answer any of questions, we can say that Zmaj didn't need to make any comments because Jacov's revert was unexplained in the first place, so he just reverted the page to last version that is supported by explanation.

You don't really expect every and each of us to repeat the same question to Jacov, while he keeps ignoring it, just to do some formal change to some talk page, because we are afraid of being blocked by Dijxtra???

About Jacov's behaviour

I would like to shed some light on Jacov's "rules-obiding" behaviour, so You can judge by yourself does he writtes in good faith or just "Gaming the system".

First, regarding his "regular discussion" on talk pages. I asked Jacov a simple yes/no question (User talk:Luka Jačov#I need some explanation of your edit that he still didn't answer. Instead, he decided to make unrelated comments just to avoid the answer. User:Joy wrote quite a good comment on Jacov's stubborn refusal to obey to the logic.

Gaming the system

Jacov's recent behaviour is called "Gaming the system" and is explained here: Misplaced Pages:Don't disrupt Misplaced Pages to illustrate a point#Gaming the system.

Let me copy that part of the text here:

Gaming the system is the use of Misplaced Pages rules to thwart Misplaced Pages policy. In many cases, gaming the system is a form of disruption.
A simple example would be obstinately reverting an edit exactly 3 times a day, and then "innocently" maintaining that no rules are being violated. The three-revert rule should not be construed as an entitlement to revert, and doing so is regarded as a disruption of Misplaced Pages operations. In fact, gaming the system in this way, over a prolonged period of time, is likely to lead to sanctions, and, in extreme cases, a permanent ban.

So, If you want to be a toy in the hands of a disruptive user who's only concern is to push his political preferences by "gaming the system", just go ahead. If You dont, read the part I bolded few lines above.

A story behind the edit-war - who is Luka Jacov

The story behind this edit war is simple. It's all about Luka Jacov's political preference and stubbornes. He is a keen supporter of reunification of Yugoslavia and he declared his mother language to be Serbo-Croatian (I have no problem with that). He showed many times that he is extremelly unwilling to accept any compromise on the issue of the language and he proved to be willing to disrupt wikipedia just to prove a point, no mather if he is right or wrong.

Example - he can't stand to see the language of Croats to be called Croatian language. For, example, few months ago, he lost te battle with Molise Croatian dialect that he wanted to rename to "Molise Slavic dialect". When he lost the argument, he still insisted on another vote. See Talk:Molise_Croatian_dialect#Requested_move_2. He is extremelly stubborn person and unwilling to change his oppinion after being proved wrong.

For more about Jacov, see his talk page, somewhere form this point all the way to the bottom.


My contributions to wikipedia

And, finally, I must express my frustration with my blocking. I am one of the most active users of croatian wikipedia and I made numerous interwiki links on croatian and english articles. I made simoultanious interwiki links on both wikipedias, so blocking my en-wiki account made this work impossible. This edit-wars are not my primary activity here (which couldn't be said for Jacov) and I spend less then 10% of my wiki-time on activities related to disputed articles.

Just see my contriutions. This numerous "+ hr" comments are marks adding interwiki links.

If you check my recent contribution, You will see I made great deal of effort to categorise Croatia-related articles just a few days ago.

I also must note that I'm not a nationalist and that I often revert vandalism of some idiotic croatian vandals on Serbia-related articles. Just today, I have been awarded my first barnstar by (pro-)Serbian user.

I wanted to continue this activities today, but, when I wanted to make my first edit, I realised that I was blocked for most exotic and most obscure reason that I could ever think of.

--Ante Perkovic 23:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar time!!!

For expressing NPOVness in all sitautions, for honoring every single Misplaced Pages rule and for such a talented work on Croat-related articles

For expressing NPOVness in all sitautions, for honoring every single Misplaced Pages rule and for such a talented work on Croat-related articles, I reward you this Barnstar. --HolyRomanEmperor 18:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Tjah...

Yeah, the fact is, I just worsened the situation by promising to block the person which makes undiscussed revert. And, yes, you have every right to be pissed off because I blocked you. But, please understand that I'm trying to stop this escalation of edit warring that's happening on Misplaced Pages. And it's not an easy job. I had some real nice interactions with you and I do not think you are a troll. But I had to act as I promised to act. And I agree that I did nothing useful by blocking you. But at the time, the idea of blocking undiscussed reverts seamed OK... What I'm trying to say here is that I understand that you are upset with the block and that I understand that the block maybe wasn't the most fair thing that I ever did. But I ask you to understand that I have to stick to my word if I wish to retrain my credibility. And being an administrator on Balkans related topics is not an easy thing but I try realy hard not to step on other peoples toes... and sometimes I don't have any other option. Sorry for the block, but I had to do that. No hard feelings. --Dijxtra 16:14, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

A quick note: I just noticed your edit on my talk page. I wrote this before I read it. I'll now read it and reply to it. --Dijxtra 16:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

User:C-c-c-c

See my talk page, and WP:AN. --ajn (talk) 09:03, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Thanks!

Well, one of the reasons why I gave it to you is just - the block itself. I think that you were unjustifyingly blocked - and this is not just for other admins/users to see when they come to your talk page, but also to make you chill off and not worry, as I know that you would be very frustrated by that block (I was right :) --HolyRomanEmperor 19:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Purger?

Hi,

If you are Purger, you broke 3RR. So, I'll have to ask you - are you user:Purger?

Avoiding to answer will only make you look guilty.

--Ante Perkovic 00:18, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

No, I am not - so, am I guilty now?
  1. Why don't you log? Trying to evade 3RR?
  2. Please, comment my proposal on talk page. --Ante Perkovic 00:32, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
No need to log in - it is perfectly legal to contribute and discuss anonymously. To talk to you - I'll use your talk page! I'll block myself for the next two days. Is it a deal?
What do you mean by block? Only admin can do that. And, plaese, comment my proposal. --Ante Perkovic 00:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I will not contribute anything within the next two days - this is a self-block. Your question: Why don't you log? My answer - I did not register myself under any name. It is perfectly legal to contribute and discuss anonymously. Happy now?

It is perfectly legal, but is also perfectly in bad baith, because this twarth normal conversation since I never know am I talking to one user or to 6 users. This is just an example of avoiding conversation in rder to have excuse for mindless reverts. --Ante Perkovic 07:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

anonymous question

Please see User talk:195.29.145.165. --Joy 10:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

It's me. --Ante Perkovic 11:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Ohladi

Napravio sam ono što bi ti sigurno napravio i meni a ti več mene cinkaraš dulje vrjeme. Na koji sam način ja to sam sebi? Pa nisam ja bio blokiran nego ti a ti se samo tješi. Druga stvar nisi ti taj koji određuje ko nam treba a ko ne na wikipediji. Da ti sad odgovorim na tvoje pitanje: odgovor na sva tvoja pitanja je da al samim time što je to više politička nego lingvistička kategorija odnosno ljudi koji su izjasnili jedno govore istim idiomom kao i ovi drugi pretvara popis prilično nerelevatnim po ovom pitanju. Ono što je prilično jadno od tebe da me prozivaš radi mojih političkih uvjerenja i na indirektan me način želiš zamoliti da se povučem iz rasprave. Ono što bi ja tebi mogo reč da prestaneš sa svojima kroatocentričnih ideja o nekom zasebnom hrvatskom jeziku koji je čvrsto odjeljen od srpskog jer taqe stvari nažalost prolaze u hrvatskoj al ne prolaze ovdje na wikipediji. nadam se da češ se urazumiti... Luka Jačov 21:42, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

E, moj, Luka, samo se ti tjesi. --Ante Perkovic 09:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Dobra! -- xompanthy 21:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Opet ti sam sa sobom pričaš. Luka Jačov 18:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Purger sockpuppetry

Please see my comments at User talk:Purger#Block period reset. Thanks for bringing this to my notice - let me know if he tries this again. -- ChrisO 18:55, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Personal attack

Hey! I dont know how to send message to users like Ante Pederkovic. Can somebody tell how to do? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hahahihihoho (talk • contribs) .

(I moved this text here and added the title --Ante Perkovic 11:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC))

Why did you feel the need to put a personal attack (if that) towards you on your talk page, when it wasn't there in the first place? Chuck 16:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
...it wasn't there in the first place? What are you talking about? Did you even chech the history? I just reverted blanking of previous attack! --Ante Perkovic 16:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
My apologies, no I hadn't checked the history. You wrote "I moved this text here and added the title" and I assumed that you had moved it here from another page. That was my mistake. The reason I was on your talk page in the first place though was b/c of the 3RR report you made against Hahahih.... I agree with you that he violated 3RR (who couldn't) but (not sure if you saw my comment on the 3RR page) I don't believe the comment above constitutes a personal attack. At the worst it could be considered incivil, but barely. Just be sure someone is attacking, rather than being rude, before accusing them of so. Chuck 16:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
No problem :). I agree that this wasn't a real persdonal attack, but more like being uncivil. I don't know all the nuances :). --Ante Perkovic 16:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Ante Perkovic:

What is your MSN? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hahahihihoho (talk • contribs)

Say what you need here. --Ante Perkovic 16:00, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

No, it is too unpersonaly. Everything is easier at MSN.

Well, my is dj_rov@hotmail.com What is yours? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hahahihihoho (talk • contribs)

I would have to be umbelievably stupid and masohistic to give an email to someone like you. So, say it here. --Ante Perkovic 16:38, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

reply

I warned him again. I realize you are annoyed, but you should also realize that there exist people who are simply rude and inconsiderate. It's not a big deal. --Joy 09:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Srebs in Kravica

Umm.. what exactly did I do? I though that Serbs were captured and killed in Kravica. Or is that another "Greater-Serbian" propaganda story, the "Butcher of the Balkans" made up... Just stay away from me, I don't want to talk to you/don't respect you. Go away, you nationalist. --serbiana - talk 16:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't play stupid, Boris. Some Serbs were killed in that area in war, but that part of article was aboutb Srebrenica masacre in 1995, not about massacres in 1991/92. I stated it clearly in my comment, I find it quite hard to believe that any missunderstanding of my words was possible. --Ante Perkovic 13:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Ivo Andric

Hi! I am concerned with the level of arguements, POVness and vandalism presented at Ivo Andric's article - now it doesn't even mention at all that he was a Croatian writer. Since You have been protecting it from Vandalism (as I see on its history), I would ask You to oversee my slight rewriting of the article. --HolyRomanEmperor 13:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Ante...

STOP CONTACTING ME, I OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOTHING TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT, JUST DO YOUR OWN STUFF AND LET ME DO MINE! I DO NOT WANT CONFLICT, AND I JUST WANT TO MOVE ON WITHOUT DEALING WITH YOU! YOU KEEP PROVOKING ME AND I HAVE LIMITS. I WILL NOT LEAVE MESSAGES ON MY TALK PAGE THAT I CONSIDER TO BE HARRASSMENT, AND YOU MUST STOP HARRASSING ME, OR I WILL TAKE FURTHER ACTIONS. EVERYTHING CAN END NOW, JUST STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ME, GOT IT? --serbiana - talk 19:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


OK. I'll move it here so I can find it later. I can only promise that no vandalism of yours will past unnoticed. --Ante Perkovic 19:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I hope you understand how close your statement is to Wikistalking, so I suggest you stop it. --serbiana - talk 19:55, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not stalking you. You just happen to vandalise pages on my watchlist (which is quite long). If you could stop vandalising pages, I would make no problem to you. It's up to you, just like I said. --Ante Perkovic 20:13, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I vandalize pages? I don't think so. First of all, I don't know which pages are on your watchlist, and don't frankly care. I just try to be fair and neutral, but some people just don't appreciate that and would rather simplify some matters... --serbiana - talk 20:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Croatian history stubs

Interesing thing you did there... You created Category:Croatian history stubs and put {{WPSS-cat}} on it, but you didn't obey what's written on it :-) You are supposed to propose new stub categories before creating them. In cases like this (when new category is created without discussion), categories are reported here, and I did just that with the one you created: here. So you know. --Dijxtra 19:43, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Uh, I just copied it from Belarus or something history and changed the words. Can you take care of procedure? --Ante Perkovic 19:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Incident

I was merely informing Boris of the horrible (now questionable) news. He was the only one who had significant contact with HRE, to not get contacted by User: Sad News. I obviously thought Boris would like to know if something had happened to him. I don't know why you'd want a checkuser, you all of all people should understand my message ( since it was written in Serbo-Croatian because you speak Serbo-Croatian). This has been my only edit since getting blocked, and it was to inform Boris of a something rather important, and that had nothing to do with Misplaced Pages, Serb-propaganda, Anti-Croatinism, or whatever the heck else, all these things are set aside when horrible things like this happen. I didn't want Boris to just stumble upon it days later after realizing HRE wasn't there anymore. I hope you understand, and let's hope HRE is okay. Are you we okay now? (Sorry I put a rather pissed off comment earlier on the RfA talk page, I've been accused more than Hipi Zhdripi, yet there are no new users editing any Serb related articles) C-c-c-c 22:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Have you heard anything new about HRE? C-c-c-c 22:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)