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Talk:Planescape: Torment: Difference between revisions

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I've removed the commented-out list of extra resources. Comments are not for policy violations which editors want to sneak into articles. See http://meta.wikimedia.org/When_should_I_link_externally for recommendations on when and what to link, which says that one or two reviews might be a good idea. Five glowing ones isn't. ] 10:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC) I've removed the commented-out list of extra resources. Comments are not for policy violations which editors want to sneak into articles. See http://meta.wikimedia.org/When_should_I_link_externally for recommendations on when and what to link, which says that one or two reviews might be a good idea. Five glowing ones isn't. ] 10:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
:And again I've removed them from the talk page. This is the most immature agenda-pushing I've seen in some time, and if it didn't before it certainly qualifies as "lame" now. ] 09:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC) :And again I've removed them from the talk page. This is the most immature agenda-pushing I've seen in some time, and if it didn't before it certainly qualifies as "lame" now. ] 09:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

===External Links===
These are the links which the evil Chris Cunningham has removed from the article because he has no idea of their significance to the fanbase. Everything was better before he came along and ruined it all.

====General Info/Strategy Guides====
* , from ''The Spoiler Centre''
* at ]
* at ]
* {{imdb title|id=0187405|title=Planescape: Torment}}
* {{moby game|id=/planescape-torment|name=''{{PAGENAME}}''}}
* , covers all CRPGs

====Fan Sites/Webrings====
* , has both the complete ''Planescape: Torment'' soundtrack and a fan-made fix pack that resolves the bugs not fixed by the official patch available for download
* , extensive coverage at Sorcerers.net
** , an extensive resource site
* , extensive coverage at GameBanshee.com
* , a file resource center
* , a source of info
* , a list of sites dedicated to PS:T and other Infinity Engine games

====Literature/Artwork====
* , a downloadable PDF/DOC of a novelization of the game
* , includes pictures of the various faction leaders

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Correct Dialog options?

Here's another quibbling point:

It has been argued that the wordy nature of the game turned many potential players off from the game, realizing that the bulk of the game often focused on picking the "correct" answer out of 1-6 presented conversation sources

The vast majority of the presented dialog options are "correct"--which one you pick is a reflection of your character's worldview/alignment and will advance the story in its own ways. When there are "wrong" choices it tends to be pretty damned obvious, and much like the battles, there are only a handful of "crucial" dialogs that you must deal with a certain way.


The line about the game's 'wordy nature' being a possible issue is apt, as both Urquhart and Avellone have suggested this in interviews, but I tend to agree the wording of the latter part should be changed to make it clear that, as you say, responses are not divided into 'right' and 'wrong'. There are only two points in the game that I can think of at which a dialogue response results in TNO's quest ending finally and absolutely by virtue solely of dialogue choice, and in both cases, it's made fairly clear you're choosing the fate in question by doing so. It's arguable even those two cases don't constitue a 'wrong' choice if that's how you want the story to resolve itself. --Yst 21:42, 31 July 2005 (UTC)


Alright, well, I rewrote the bit about the selection of 'correct' dialogue options, clarifying the situation. I also changed the "four" required combat encounters to "three", as, unless someone can correct me, I maintain that Ravel, Trias and Ignus or Vhailor (depending on alignment) are the only three. --Yst 04:02, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

The zombie in the mortuary needs to be killed to get the key to leave the first room. —shoecream 05:21, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
Heh, good point! You've got me there. Though now I'm not sure which is closer to the truth, as the Zombie's a trivial semi-tutorial sort of encounter. Well, if anyone cares to change it back to "four" in recognition of the zombie, feel free. I don't know that I can find grounds to favour one over the other --Yst 06:09, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Four Battles

Maybe a quibbling point, but I'm somewhat doubtful of this part

"There were very few (four) required battles throughout the entire game, as all others could be avioded through the correct choice of dialogue."

Trias, Ravel and either Ignus or Vhailor must be fought. But that only makes for three compulsory battles. Whether or not Curst Prison is considered a 'battle', it can be beaten without fighting. Is there a fourth I'm missing? --Yst 00:45, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Why do you say Ignus _or_ Vhailor must be fought? As far as I know Ignus must ALWAYS be fought, whereas Vhailor is an elective combat...
If TNO's alignment is Evil, Vhailor must be fought rather than Ignus at the FoR, though under identical circumstances. It's one or the other, but not both. --Yst 21:19, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
Guys, I think you have some mistake... first of all, you also need to fight a zombie to leave the preperation chamber in which the game begins. However, you don't have to fight Ignus nor Vhailor if you don't take them with you. If they weren't members of your party when you entered the Fortress, you don't fight any of them. So, there are three battles - the zombie at the beginning, Ravel, and Trias. As for Curst Prison, I don't think it can be considered as a battle. Tamuz 17:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
I think it is 4 though, because I freed Ignus, but didn't take him in my party. Furthermore, I killed him just to see if I will be fighting him at the Fortress of Regrets. It turns out that he will be revived anyway be the Transcendant One and you will have to do battle with him. I also talked Vhailor into killing himself, so even if you end up getting both Ignus and Vhailor killed, they will be revived and you will have to fight either one of them depending on your alignment.
Well, I'm quite sure that when I freed Ignus and Vhailor and didn't take them with me, I didn't have to fight either in the fortress... Probably because I didn't kill them. I don't have my CD of the game right now, but I'll check it out sometime and I'll let you know. I'll leave it as 4 battles for now. Tamuz 12:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
You also have to kill a guard that carries a key you need in the Curst prison, AFAIR. --Illythr 01:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I wonder, why was the synopsis cut down to such a short fragment of its original length? Victor Gijsbers 01:28, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I noticed that most of the other synopses on the wiki were much shorter than the one I had originally written, so I cut down on its length to match the precenedent. If you feel that the information is not enough, feel free to edit it--after all, it is a wiki. Shoecream 04:00, Mar 28, 2004 (UTC)

Maybe build an external web page and link to it? Goblin 08:23, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)

Why is this game called Planescape: Torment as opposed to just Torment? Nobody refers to Baldur's Gate as Forgotten Realms: Baldur's Gate or to The Temple of Elemental Evil as Greyhawk: TToEE... --Anym

  • Because Planescape: Torment is the name of the game. That's what it says on the box, and that's how it's known. Baldur's Gate is set in the Forgotten Realms, but its full name is Baldur's Gate, and not Forgotten Realms: Baldur's Gate; this is just how it might be called, for consistency. Complain to Black Isle Studios if you disagree. :-) Articles should be named according to the most common use, and while the game is often simply named "Planescape", "PS:T" or "Torment", the full name is the most common. Google if you don't believe me. It may just have to do with the unwieldiness of long names for BG and TToEE, but nevertheless, the full name of PS:T is the most commonly used. --Anon
The 'actual' name of the game is Torment. The first part of the full name is the setting/universe. However, since no other game was ever published in the Planescape setting, you can as well use the full name without being ambigous or redundant. Compare with 'Vampire:The Masquerade:Redemption', for example. The name 'Vampire' was usually used for the game, until the second one, 'Bloodlines' was published. Now they're referred to as just 'Redemption' and 'Bloodlines'.

So, my point is: Duh, whatever... :-) --Illythr 01:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

trivia

While considered one of the greatest computer role-playing games ever made — I have objections with this bit. Specifically, it sounds like a weasel phrase. Perhaps it would be better to omit this portion entirely. --Shoecream 03:10, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)

I changed the wording slightly --Anym 19:10, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Planescape actually sold nearly 400,000 copies worldwide, and Diablo sold several million. In fact, Planescape sold far more copies than the Fallout series.
Yes. This "Planescape is the most underrated game ever" meme is quite persistent, however. Taking total sales into account, it didn't do all that bad. Of course it still deserved to have sold much, much more... but that's POV. :-) --Anon
Yep, CRPGs were never a large market, after all. In CRPG terms, by any era's standards, Planescape sold fairly well. Only in the shadow of BG's then quite recent virtually unprecedented success and unheard of CRPG sales figures does Planescape seem a poor seller. --Yst 14:38, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Infobox

Does anybody feel up for making one of those nifty infoboxes for this article?

Done. --Goblin 11:28, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)
I need to make an infobox for Forgotten Realms, but I don't know how to do it (i read the instructions, but it made no sense). More info. — Reply to David Latapie 01:56, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Morte Rictusgrin?

Can you please tell me where morte's last name is mentioned in this game? I don't recall bumping into this name although I've finished this game several times. Yuval madar

is a mirror of the official Torment site. Scroll to the bottom and you'll see his last name. —shoecream 19:02, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

Open Source/Improvements

Something I would really is to have this game come open source in one way or another. Not that I am interested in the game engine, but some plot could be improved. For instance:

  • The object you find on the Glabrezu corpse is bugged—it doesn't give you the abillties it is supposed to give you
  • When you come back to the Mortuary, you can speak with a skeleton that seems to have been killed by Ignus. That would be great if you could reply something like “I am Ignus' master“, even better if the events could change if you are travelling with Ignus.
  • I guess there would be a lot of thing to do with Adahn's appearance.Reply to David Latapie 09:29, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Do you have any idea who sould I contact?

Black Isle still exists on paper (unlike some of its parent companies) and owns PS:T insofar as anyone owns it, but all the most important personalities to its development have moved elsewhere. I'd say there's less than no chance of source ever being released. Having said that, a lot can be done with Infinity Engine game content and scripts without having access to the source itself. Platter has traditionally been the big kahuna in that department, but hasn't been very active lately. For IE modding info and discussion, you might consult the Gibberlings3 forums --Yst 14:19, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

I've tried to clean up the article so there's less POV, less weasel terms, and a clearer and more focused plot summary concentrating on themes and such, as opposed to random factoids, bland storytelling, and incorrect (but barely noticable) information. Who knows, maybe I might even succeed. —shoecream 07:05, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

I made text flow corrections and such, but I do prefer this version of the article. --Sn0wflake 20:04, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
Minor change in the name of greater semantic clarity: I changed "Black Isle (which disbanded in 2004)" to "Black Isle (closed in 2004)", as the prior appears to suggest or at least leaves open the possibility that Black Isle closed itself, i.e., of its own volition, subject to an internal decision, whereas in fact it was closed by Interplay subject to an external decision by that parent company. The latter seems to me to better reflect that reality, while not belabouring a rather peripheral point. --Yst 07:35, 29 August 2005 (UTC)


Final Fantasy?

I removed the reference to Final Fantasy X, as it had no place within the article. The spells in PS:T aren't at all comparable to the Aeons in FFX, and PS:T predates FFX by several years.

Hm, there was an in-game reference (credits) to FF8, not FFX. Also, it's the general appearance of the spells, that's comparable to those in FF: the "timestop" during casts, the movie sequences (high-level), and the general 'epic' look of magic. Compare Torment with BG for instance. Magic from P:T looks better by far than even those in BG2. --Illythr 01:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Diablo Analogy

I removed

The Modron Maze is arguably a spoof of the popular hack-and-slash game Diablo.

This seems to contradict developer comments on the modron cube, most recently by Chris Avellone, indicating that, as seems evident, it's merely a parody of D&D/RPG clichés in general. --Yst 06:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Misc

I added a bit of information about the Incarnations faced at the end and also of Deionarra's background. This is as far as i can figure out based on what was revealed in the game. I did some research, but i could have para-phrase certain points. All in all, i think they are fairly accurate, feel free to change and edit what is incorrect and any inaccuracies.


"Goth"

I changed the word "goth" to "mature", as goth is a meaningless term, whether you like goths or not. The term "mature" seems more NPOV.

Lame extlinks

That the game rocks does not mean that a dozen websites about it need to be added as extlinks, especially when they have lame advertising text next to them. Chris Cunningham 10:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

The related Planescape page has many more links than this, so that may be a good reason for you to attack it, too.
I can't do everything at once. I'll have a shot at reducing the links in there later if you'd like. Chris Cunningham 13:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I was being sarcastic. You should NOT touch the Planescape page. --Jesse Mulkey 14:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
As was I. Someone braver than me will have to fade through that particular swamp, much of which should be shifted to the sub-pages. Chris Cunningham 14:16, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
These are not "lame" (which is most certainly NOT N.P.O.V., I might add)
It doesn't need to be NPOV, it's not in the article. The content might not be lame, but sticking it in Misplaced Pages is: WP is _not a link repository_ and links to resource sites don't make articles any more encyclopedic.
The list of sites presented is merely the smallest fraction of sites existing, and are considered the "cream of the crop." --Jesse Mulkey 14:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Some of them are merely less famous, but are useful resources nontheless. I removed the "advertising" you percieved, though. --Jesse Mulkey 13:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
There are over ten extlinks on this article now. They can't all be uniquely useful. Please try to cut some of them out. The Underdogs and mobygames links are especially worthless, and I suspect the one which used to have "gave it 9 out of 10" is too. Chris Cunningham 13:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
The list of sites presented is merely the smallest fraction of sites existing, and are considered the "cream of the crop." --Jesse Mulkey 14:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

If you're not willing to do it, I will. Misplaced Pages is not a link repository, this article is not a portal and game review sites are not suitable further reading to be linked to from an encyclopaedia. Chris Cunningham 14:16, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. I'm not averse to these links pointing to more fitting sources, but I am averse to random websites being tacked on. External links should be *rare* on Misplaced Pages, and I'm unhappy with fan portals being linked anyway, but so long as the list remains concise it's not that important. Chris Cunningham 14:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Just so people can still find these sites, I will put the link information here. --Jesse Mulkey 18:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as you keep sticking it back in the article, it doesn't need to be in here. Doesn't need to be in the article either, but I'm not yet irritated enough to seek arbitratrion. Please justify individual parts of this before continuing to throw it all back in. None of it is at all useful to the article. Chris Cunningham 16:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Stealth links

I've removed the commented-out list of extra resources. Comments are not for policy violations which editors want to sneak into articles. See http://meta.wikimedia.org/When_should_I_link_externally for recommendations on when and what to link, which says that one or two reviews might be a good idea. Five glowing ones isn't. Chris Cunningham 10:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

And again I've removed them from the talk page. This is the most immature agenda-pushing I've seen in some time, and if it didn't before it certainly qualifies as "lame" now. Chris Cunningham 09:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

External Links

These are the links which the evil Chris Cunningham has removed from the article because he has no idea of their significance to the fanbase. Everything was better before he came along and ruined it all.

General Info/Strategy Guides

Fan Sites/Webrings

Literature/Artwork

Categories:
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