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Revision as of 14:00, 21 August 2014 editWorldedixor (talk | contribs)3,590 edits →Crank conspiracy theorists← Previous edit Revision as of 14:12, 21 August 2014 edit undoGreenC (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors128,735 edits →Crank conspiracy theorists: remove per NOTAFORUM and BLP - there is no evidence of this and this is not a talk page to discuss itNext edit →
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::Misplaced Pages(more specifically, ]) is not for discussing theories; we are here to write this encyclopedia, which is based on ]. This isn't a debate society or discussion forum. If you have ] which support your views(which would differ with pretty much the entire world and even ISIS itself, who hasn't denied anything) then please offer them; otherwise, please find the proper forum for what you want to do. ] (]) 10:24, 21 August 2014 (UTC) ::Misplaced Pages(more specifically, ]) is not for discussing theories; we are here to write this encyclopedia, which is based on ]. This isn't a debate society or discussion forum. If you have ] which support your views(which would differ with pretty much the entire world and even ISIS itself, who hasn't denied anything) then please offer them; otherwise, please find the proper forum for what you want to do. ] (]) 10:24, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

As I said (above and below):
Misplaced Pages needs a forum if Talk pages are not fit for purpose.
You still did not answer if the CIA and other similar intelligence agencies can be relied upon as primary sources? The majority of reliable sources reprint unvarifiable information from said agencies, for example the false information used to start the ongoing war in Iraq in the first place. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 10:37, 21 August 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::To everyone, Misplaced Pages is clearly ]. This has not changed. However, since the events depicted in the video raise many questions leading that it may be staged by actors, "common sense" discussion on the Talk page as to whether or not to accept such allegedly staged event in an encyclopedia is warranted. There are many clues and inconsistences in the video to analyze. ] (]) 13:51, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
::::Something else to consider. According to ], there appears to be a precedent of ''"A hoax beheading video by Benjamin Vanderford received wide attention by the American press. The creators of the video claimed to have released the video to point out how uncritically the mainstream media would accept an anonymous video (the video turned up on U.S. media outlets immediately)."'' ] (]) 14:00, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

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This page is not a forum for general discussion about about James Foley, if the video is fake, conspiracy theories and other tangential topics such as the credibility of the CIA. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about about James Foley, if the video is fake, conspiracy theories and other tangential topics such as the credibility of the CIA at the Reference desk.

Suggested change of name

I suggest changing the name of this article to "James Foley (photo-journalist)".

Perhaps we could also move the "James Foley" to "James Foley (film director)".

Then we could set the "James Foley" page to be the disambiguation page.
Aberdeen01 (talk) 03:52, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

I started it at this title because I initially saw reports about him using his full name and thought using that would be better than a career disambiguation, but I have no problem with using one if that's what users want. I don't know enough about the director Foley to know if that page should be moved. 331dot (talk) 09:11, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Others at Category:American photojournalists use this format. The director is hatnoted. — Wyliepedia 18:08, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Authenticity

I think there should be a section of the article dealing with the authenticity. In particular focusing on the authenticity of:

  • whether the man speaking is indeed James Foley
  • whether the captives are indeed ISIS ( aka IS)
  • whether the man is indeed killed

Aberdeen01 (talk) 03:55, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Death confirmed

It is inapproprite to list "cause of death" as beheading. It can be listed as a means of execution or murder but the graphic nature and the description beheading is not a standard way of listing cause of death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.7.102.58 (talk) 04:37, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Foley's family has confirmed his death. The family is the first to be notified. It would be a shame if this article became a monument to conspiracy theory and "what ifs" by the press and pundits. -- GreenC 05:12, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Why did the video show a still picture of the aftermath without showing the actual beheading? This is the first IS video that does not show the actual beheading which raises a reasonable doubt. Also, the alleged murderer in black spoke with a British accent which is not the norm for IS. The White House could not confirm and many news media are saying that there is a little chance that the video was fake.Worldedixor (talk) 08:40, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Why do you have the sick need to actually view the beheading itself? (Read WP:NPA). Considering that the video was released by IS through their "official" channels, we can conclude it is authentic. Additionally, the family members of Foley have confirmed his death. IS has beheaded more than just a couple of people, it appears to be their M.O. as of late. There is no reasonable doubt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.183.232.24 (talk) 12:10, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Clearly Misplaced Pages is not the place where people should publish there own theories, but when there is a debate we can report the debate. Are there some good reliable sources that can answer the following three questions:
* Was the American who spoke in the video James Foley?
* Was he killed?
* Was he killed by ISIS ( aka IS)?
Aberdeen01 (talk) 12:03, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Its not affirmed just yet. >> What James Foley's Murder Says About Islamic State. Also the deate doesnt have to be when it was reported by videoLihaas (talk) 15:00, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Based on up to the minute news from NSC, video and beheading have been confirmed. Worldedixor (talk) 17:17, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Slander/falsehoods about Foley

"Convicted and executed as a spy and assassin"? "Pedophile"? Who keeps posting this stuff? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.84.193.164 (talk) 15:08, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Vandals and trolls. WP:BDP applies, Biography of Living persons applies to the recently deceased, and those whose deaths may legitimately questioned (as in the bloomberg reference above). Martin451 16:17, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Live video of Obama statement on Foley execution

-- GreenC 16:36, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Confirmed dead by the President of the United State and the video is accurate as it appears. Please ignore sources saying otherwise. -- GreenC 16:53, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, only pay attention to authorities that lied to the public to start a war in the first place. That makes so much sense.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎188.220.31.204 (talk)
You are free to disbelieve President Obama, but the fact remains that he said it. We deal in verifiability not truth. 331dot (talk) 00:55, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
For your information:September Dossier — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎188.220.31.204 (talk)
I'm not sure what that is supposed to prove. As I stated, you can believe what you wish, but that does not change the fact that the statement was made. 331dot (talk) 01:03, 21 August 2014 (UTC) I'm not debating the fact that Obama has stated that he can confiem the death of Mr Foley is dead which is both tragic and a shame. Did Obama also state as quoted by Green Cardamom that the "video is as accurate as it appears"?188.220.31.204 (talk) 01:10, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Green Cardamon was not quoting the President, nor was he saying such a statement should be on this page; he was stating his opinion. Feel free to disagree. Or, if you know of reliable sources that have impugned the credibility or accuracy of the video, please offer them. That said, the National Security Council (answerable to the President) has found the video to be accurate. 331dot (talk) 01:17, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Do the CIA or similar intelligence organisations count as reliable sources?188.220.31.204 (talk) 01:37, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
On the question if the video is real yes they are reliable, since they report to the NSC. Please see WP:NOTAFORUM, this is not a soapbox to attack the credibility of the United States government intelligence community in general. -- GreenC 01:55, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

ISIS or not ISIS?

Intro:

"he was abducted and later killed by a fundamentalist militia in northwestern Syria...Foley is the first American killed by ISIS militia"

I understand that - at least earlier today, fill me in - it was unsure whether it was ISIS who did it. If it was, then the intro should say:

"he was abducted and later killed by an ISIS militia in northwestern Syria...Foley is the first American killed by ISIS militia"

And if we still don't know, then all references to ISIS in the lead should be removed unless they have a "reported" or "alleged" before them. '''tAD''' (talk) 23:16, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

He was killed by ISIS this is verified by the highest level sources per the article (see footnotes). Who abducted him in 2012 is open for discussion. -- GreenC 23:56, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

David Cameron

British Prime Minister David Cameron cut short a holiday to hold meetings after the murder, due to a strong likelihood that the murderer was British. Can this go in the article, or is that making it more an article on the incident (execution) rather than a biography? http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/20/isis-fighter-beheaded-us-journalist-james-foley-appears-british-hammond '''tAD''' (talk) 23:21, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

The murderer in question was described as having a British-sounding accent or apparently sounding British. That can and should be included if properly sourced. If it turns out that he is a British citizen, then by all means, no censorship. But I don't think it has been established yet for encyclopedic standards. Quis separabit? 01:42, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Religion RC Church

Wasn't he Roman Catholic as some site said he prayed the rosary in detention? See and 62.205.66.50 (talk) 02:51, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

I'll add it as I find several newspapers mention it too.--T. Anthony (talk) 04:19, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Crank conspiracy theorists

Right on cue and predictably with high profile events, crank theorists have shown up speculating the video is fake etc.. this is not the appropriate place to have that discussion see WP:NOTAFORUM (also known as SOAPBOXing) and WP:BLP (applies to recent deceased). There are no reliable sources that support that view and this isn't a forum to discuss or push personal opinions. Citizen journalism has its place, this is not it. -- GreenC 04:53, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages should have a forum as well as a talk page in this case as the rational debate and discussion of many topics is a good thing and will help improve understanding and critical thinking. Your use of defensive language and slander shines light and gives solid foundation to these views you oppose. It reflects badly upon you.188.220.31.204 (talk) 10:21, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages(more specifically, talk pages) is not for discussing theories; we are here to write this encyclopedia, which is based on verifiability, not truth. This isn't a debate society or discussion forum. If you have reliable sources which support your views(which would differ with pretty much the entire world and even ISIS itself, who hasn't denied anything) then please offer them; otherwise, please find the proper forum for what you want to do. 331dot (talk) 10:24, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
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