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Administrative discussions

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive367#Close challenge for Talk:1948 Arab–Israeli War#RFC for Jewish exodus

(Initiated 27 days ago on 13 December 2024) challenge of close at AN was archived nableezy - 05:22, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Sander.v.Ginkel unblock request

(Initiated 25 days ago on 15 December 2024) voorts (talk/contributions) 00:55, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

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Requests for comment

Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/In the news criteria amendments

(Initiated 94 days ago on 7 October 2024) Tough one, died down, will expire tomorrow. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 459#RFC_Jerusalem_Post

(Initiated 73 days ago on 28 October 2024) Participation/discussion has mostly stopped & is unlikely to pick back up again. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

 Note: This is a contentious topic and subject to general sanctions. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed.  22:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Genocide#RfC: History section, adding native American and Australian genocides as examples

(Initiated 64 days ago on 6 November 2024) RfC expired on 6 December 2024 . No new comments in over a week. Bogazicili (talk) 15:26, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Team Seas#Re: the ocean pollution additions

(Initiated 55 days ago on 15 November 2024) Clear consensus that the proposed edit (and its amended version) violate WP:SYNTH. However, the owning editor is engaging in sealioning behavior, repeatedly arguing against the consensus and dismissing others' rationale as not fitting his personal definition of synthesis; and is persistently assuming bad-faith, including opening an ANI accusing another editor of WP:STONEWALLING. When finally challenged to give a direct quote from the source that supports the proposed edit, it was dismissed with "I provided the source, read it yourself" and then further accused that editor with bad-faith. The discussion is being driven into a ground by an editor who does not (nor wish to) understand consensus and can't be satisfied with any opposing argument supported by Misplaced Pages policy or guidelines. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 22:30, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Israel#RfC

(Initiated 48 days ago on 22 November 2024) Legobot has removed the RFC notice. Can we please get an interdependent close. TarnishedPath 23:08, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

 Note: Ongoing discussion, please wait a week or two. Bogazicili (talk) 14:08, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#RFC_Science-Based_Medicine

(Initiated 33 days ago on 7 December 2024) slowed for a while Bluethricecreamman (talk) 06:14, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Wicked (2024 film)#RfC on whether credited name or common name should be used

(Initiated 30 days ago on 11 December 2024) Participation mostly slowed, should have an independent close. Happily888 (talk) 10:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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Deletion discussions

Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 20#Category:Belarusian saints

(Initiated 21 days ago on 20 December 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 23:10, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

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Other types of closing requests

Talk:Arab migrations to the Levant#Merger Proposal

(Initiated 107 days ago on 25 September 2024) Open for a while, requesting uninvolved closure. Andre🚐 22:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Winter fuel payment abolition backlash#Merge proposal

(Initiated 73 days ago on 29 October 2024) There are voices on both sides (ie it is not uncontroversial) so a non-involved editor is needed to evaluate consensus and close this. Thanks. PamD 09:55, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Israel–Hamas war#Survey

(Initiated 64 days ago on 7 November 2024) Looking for uninvolved close in CTOP please, only a few !votes in past month. I realise this doesn't require closing, but it is preferred in such case due to controversial nature of topic. CNC (talk) 10:44, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

•  Note: I'm happy to perform the merge if required, as have summarised other sections of this article already with consensus. I realise it's usually expected to perform splits or merges when closing discussions, but in this case it wouldn't be needed. CNC (talk) 20:28, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:Shiv Sena#Merge proposal

(Initiated 43 days ago on 27 November 2024) Discussion seems to have stopped. As the proposal is not uncontroversial, and I, as the initiator, am involved, I am requesting an uninvolved editor to close the discussion. Arnav Bhate (talk • contribs) 11:02, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

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Authority to topic ban?

An admin can topic ban a user at their own discretion if and only if discretionary sanctions have been authorized for the topic; see the banning policy's section "Authority to ban". If there are no DS, topic bans can only be done via consensus on AN/ANI, which is in practice pretty difficult to achieve, even in cases where … well, never mind, forgot what I was going to say. Anyway.

I bring this up in relation to a situation where I have blocked a user for two weeks for personal attacks and battleground editing on and around a certain article. The user has requested unblock and unambiguously offered to stay away from the topic for six months in return for being unblocked to work in other areas: "I would like to be unblocked on the condition that I stay away from and related pages (for at least 6 months)." My whole TLDR block rationale and all details can be found here and the complete unblock request here, but they don't really matter, as this is a question of principle. I would like to comply with the request, but I would need to be sure of the status of such a topic ban. I need it to be as tight as a T-ban as defined at WP:TBAN; the user's proposal is made in good faith, no doubt, but I still don't want to end up with an unenforceable ban. Can the user's own offer give me the authority to topic ban them, which I don't otherwise have per WP:BAN? I hope so; it would presumably make the user happy, and me also. In any case I'm not going to request a community topic ban, it's too much of a hassle and timesink and would make far fewer people happy. Bishonen | talk 20:34, 2 November 2014 (UTC).

In theory, no, in practice, it's not that uncommon for a user to accept an informal ban in order to get unblocked. Given the user has suggested the condition, I don't think community ban discussion would be that big a deal -- don't see why anyone would oppose it. NE Ent 21:07, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

From my experience, any sanction given as a condition of unblock is an enforceable sanction, as long as the user agrees to it before being unblocked. Because they are voluntarily accepting it, you are just acting on behalf of the community by inacting it Like all admin actions, it would be subject to review and the community could override or revert your decision, but again, that is true of everything you do as admin. This would be a self-imposed sanction in lieu of remaining blocked. If you KNOW the community would accept it, then there is no controversy and you are just saving the time of the community. Just as when you block a vandal, you know the community would vote to block them. While it isn't written down in policy this plainly, the spirit of policy supports it, so WP:IAR backs you. It isn't extremely common, but it is done somewhat regularly for serial edit warring and the like. I would log it like any other tban. Dennis - 2¢ 21:39, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

While I agree with NE Ent above (technically no, in practice yes), I bet we can get community consensus that any topic ban voluntarily accepted as a condition of being unblocked is authorized by the community (maybe with some maximum time limit). That would solve it in theory as well going forward. --obsidi (talk) 22:18, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't think this is tested frequently enough to be confident that the analysis by Dennis would always apply—my feeling is that a wikilawyer could justifiably say that an unblock cannot include a logged topic ban. However, it's a model unblock request and I recommend simply accepting it with a request that the user follow their offer to stay away from the topic for six months. There is no need to point out there would probably be a bad outcome if there were a future problem regarding the topic in less than six months. That is, a voluntary offer accepted with an unblock is as good as a topic ban in practice. Johnuniq (talk) 22:34, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Bishonen should not worry that much about an unenforceable ban. What if Elvey happens to make a positive contribution to that topic? The user may be playing with fire, but it is possible; would an administrator block because of positive contributions? Let the user make a disruptive edit and the decision will be easier. 84.127.82.127 (talk) 00:13, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

As a practical matter you can warn an editor not to do X, because you are afraid that if they do X, they will get themselves into trouble. If the editor then does X in a harmless way, you ignore it, but if they do anything slightly malicious, you can be very strict. Effectively, this functions like a topic ban, but I recommend not calling that or you'll get people riled. Jehochman 01:05, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Bishonen unblock away. The agreement isn't going to be binding as a topic ban though. Blocks are for short term disruption. "Promising to end the disruption by staying away from the topic area" is an unnecessary added condition to just "promising to end the disruption." On it's face, it appears that the editor is offering more but in reality is offering less ("I won't edit war or personal attack in that Topic Area"). Really, the unblock should happen on a general promise to stop disruption and the bar for reblock would be very low for the behavior, not the topic. Don't even bother with the topic area as it's really just a reason to appeal a future block for the same behavior in a different area. I like the idea of the conditional topic ban offer and it should be tracked so that future disruption is a very low hurdle but in the end it's a simple block for disruption. --DHeyward (talk) 01:38, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

DHeyward, the user offered to stay away altogether from the topic area for at least six months. The other things they wrote — I'll AGF, I'll be civil, etc — clearly referred to their future editing elsewhere. (The small topic area we're talking about is far from being the user's only interest on Misplaced Pages). Anyway, I've offered them an unblock on the conditions they themselves suggested. Thank you all for your input, it was helpful. Going to bed now. Bishonen | talk 01:52, 3 November 2014 (UTC).

As an alternative take on this; admins were elected to represent the disciplinary will of the community. When an editor makes an offer of a voluntary topic ban and the admin chooses to accept the offer and unblock based on the strength of that commitment, it should be viewed as a community endorsement of the topic ban and that violations of said topic ban should be dealt with in the usual way. Blackmane (talk) 23:08, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

• This unblock request has a negotiable, voluntary covenant. The user has agreed to a set of conditions for their unblock. If they violate the conditions, the unblock is void by their own agreement. There's no harm in returning the block when they violate their own agreement. No one is making them agree to the terms; they're quite allowed to just stay blocked. Doubly so when they proposed the conditions of the covenant themselves. Unblock, and if they violate their own proposed terms, block them back again. Simple as that. --Jayron32 01:29, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

  No, that is not right. I have seen time and again editors violating their bans with some absent-minded gnomish and trivial change. To say that the editor has voluntarily agreed to a set of conditions for their unblock fails to recognise that it is under duress. It just becomes an end run around the restrictions on placing bans. Hawkeye7 (talk) 20:00, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

  "My word is my bond", If an editor agrees to a contract and then breaks it, then (s)he is not acting in good faith. I think the original block should be reinstated with interest for the breach of good faith. -- PBS (talk) 10:07, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

• I believe the authority here is the user's own word and their own account. This was particularly iffy with regards to self requested blocks, because they show up in the block log and cannot be expunged. However, in this case, it is a self requested action--with guise to unblock so the authority comes from the user's responsibility and urge to be unblocked, and your willingness to AGF in that action. They themselves take up the restriction, which does bring some accountability on what policy to enforce it upon, a weird conundrum... Tutelary (talk) 01:27, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

  Yes, but in all fairness, if an editor later has "buyer's remorse", they shouldn't violate the agreement, they can always appeal it at WP:AN. So they can refuse to agree to begin with and try to discuss an unblock with another admin, plus they can choose to have it reviewed at any time. It isn't like they don't have options. This is why I was saying that in the past, I've noticed the community seeing these as reasonable, as long as the terms by the admin are reasonable. To be honest, they may get a better deal by calmly working one on one with an admin rather than putting it at ANI for a drama debate. At least they can talk back and forth and try to reach a compromise, such as a time limit on a topic ban. Dennis - 2¢ 01:58, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Editor requests speedy G7 after dispute

RGloucester recently created House of Assembly of Jamaica. I added a couple of templates, categories and a see also to it. He then removed one of the templates, which I restored. He then deleted it again. After I posted on his talk page, he then nominated the article for speedy deletion via WP:CSD#G7. I contested the deletion, but he has reinstated the speedy request.

Several questions arise here:

1. Can an admin decline a G7 request if it's clear the topic is notable
2. Would my addition of categories, templates and see also count as "susbstantial content" and nullify the G7 rationale
3. Was RGloucester allowed to reinstate a CSD request after it was declined
4. Can I delete the article and just start a new one with the same text?

A quick answer would be appreciated. Cheers, Number 57 21:54, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Page design is important, and I refuse to be associated with poorly designed pages. I wrote all the "content" in the article. Adding a template hardly counts as content. I want the page deleted, per that criteria and WP:KIBOSH. Then, Mr Number 57 can add whatever templates he liked, without my name being dragged through the mud in the process. I hope Mr Number 57 realises that he was acting as an editor on that page, and that that means he is "involved". God, please chastise me for recently reading a book on Morant Bay, and having the gall to create a page on the House of Assembly of Jamaica. RGloucester — ☎ 21:59, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

@RGloucester it says at the bottom of each edit page:

By clicking the "Save page" button, you agree to the Terms of Use and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL with the understanding that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient for CC BY-SA 3.0 attribution.

RGloucester you write "I refuse to be associated with poorly designed pages", but it is not permissible under the licence to claim copyright like this, or WP:OWNERSHIP of a page in this way. If you are not willing to allow you contributions to be mercilessly edited and redistributed, then you should not edit in Misplaced Pages article space (Misplaced Pages:MERCILESS is one of the five pillars of Misplaced Pages).

@Number 57 as you point out it is debatable if G7 applies as you too had made what could be seen as substantial contributions to such a small article. However I do appreciate that that in itself is a matter of judgement. I think a more critical issue is that the recreation of the article without its history, as AFAICT this is not allowed for copyright/licensing reasons (see WP:ATTREQ and WP:RUD and the section following RUD called "Userfication"), so I suggest that the simplest course of action is for you restore the full history to the article. -- PBS (talk) 00:11, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

An admin can decline a G7. I have declined them in the past. G7 is not an absolute right. The content that is in the current article is a copy of the content that is in the deleted. It is technically a copyright violation and needs to be attributed to the original author. GB fan 00:37, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

The smart thing to do is delete it, and rewrite a new two-sentence blurb, which should take no more than three seconds. RGloucester — ☎ 00:39, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

The smart thing to do is leave the article as written and restore the attribution to that version. GB fan 02:48, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I too have on occasion declined G7 when it appears that the material is helpful to the encyclopedia, or the person is not the sole substantial editor. Certainly nobody has the right to refuse to be associated with an article if others edit it as well. The only way to avoid being connected with an article is to never edit it. The word "irrevocable" in the TOS is pretty unambiguous. DGG ( talk ) 06:57, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Fair points. I have restored the whole history. Number 57 09:50, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

This is a sad day, indeed. It seems mandarins conquer, and poor peasants whimper. RGloucester — ☎ 13:28, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

There is now an RfC on the original dispute. Number 57 20:07, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Nigger of the Narcissus

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Please create a redirect from this page to The Nigger of the 'Narcissus'.

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All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 17:37, 7 November 2014 (UTC).

 Done Mfield (Oi!) 17:49, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

RFC close review Talk:2014_Iranian-led_intervention_in_Iraq#Iran.2C_Hezbollah_Reaction_to_American-led_intervention_in_Iraq

I've discussed this with the closer on their talk page. I question if this is a reasonable summation of the consensus as it is not a reasonable clear determination. The support for the inclusion seems to be based on the poll. -Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 07:31, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Article taken from sandbox

Without sounding overly dramatic, what is the process when somebody steals an article from your sandbox? I'm talking about Jack Harper (footballer) which has been entirely lifted (via C&P) by Meeneunos10 (talk · contribs) from User:GiantSnowman/Jack Harper. GiantSnowman 16:53, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

It's still in your sandbox. The other fellow merely copied what you had & beat you to creating the article. GoodDay (talk) 16:56, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

And in the process, 'merely' omitted to note the source, thereby violating copyright. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:59, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Precisely my issue, Andy. GiantSnowman 17:43, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

A histmerge should be performed. I've tagged the article. --NeilN 17:09, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

I have merged the histories of these two pages but I would like to hear GiantSnowman's opinion. You must have had a reason to keep the draft in your sandbox without publishing it, so maybe it should be moved back? De728631 (talk) 17:38, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

It remained in my sandbox because he is not (yet, in my opinion) notable... GiantSnowman 17:43, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

I'll be surprised if he replies. In all his edits he's only posted once to a talk page. I'm not fond of non-communicative editors. Dougweller (talk) 17:52, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Neither am I, and I don't approve of copying content from other people's user space without asking for permission. As to notability, I'd say Jack Harper is borderline notable given that he's been covered by multiple reliable sources. But I wouldn't mind an AfD either. De728631 (talk) 18:33, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Could WP:CSD#G7 apply here? GiantSnowman 18:47, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Why not just move it back to your sandbox and delete the redirect? Number 57 18:53, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm a bit flummoxed by this, so for clarification - Has this guy just nicked a draft article from Mr. Snowman and passed it off as his own? Are there no policies about this sort of thing? Can't we give him a good slapping behind the bike sheds? -Roxy the dog™ (resonate) 18:57, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

It was copyvio. I've been bold and moved it back (and fixed the categories so they show but don't add the article to the categories). Hope I haven't upset anyone but I think that's the best solution. Dougweller (talk) 19:29, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

No, that's what I thought should be done, but I wasn't sure (hence why I raised it here - and when it happened previously, with a different user, we went through AFD). GiantSnowman 20:21, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

NeilN left a good msg to him, I've upped that ante, so they should get the message. Dennis - 2¢ 20:23, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Good job, Doug. I think this is the best solution. But just like GiantSnowman I was thinking along the lines of an AfD. The latter should then preferably have resulted in a move back to user space. But if we can spare some bureaucratic act then that's all the better. De728631 (talk) 08:43, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

More generally, if editor A writes a drat in their sandbox, and editor B thinks it is ready to be an article, or that they can contribute to it, editor B is perfectly entitled to move it to user space, or to draft space, or to edit it further. Nobody owns an article. All contributions to WP in any space are irrevocable ,and anyone may use it for any purpose, including the creation of a wikipedia article. sandboxes and draft space are there for protection of incomplete articles against deletion, not to create a private space.

Attribution is of course necessary, and is best provided by moving the page. We routinely move drafts from user space to draft space (formerly, to AfC). I have a number of times moved user sandboxes or unsubmitted drafts to article space if I think they are ready, but the user is not working on them. (It is ofcourse courteous to inform the user if the user is still active)

If the move is by copypaste, the attribution can easily be provided inseveral ways ; a history merge is preferred from a sandbox, because the earlier material might be deleted. DGG ( talk ) 09:02, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, this is correct... but I think there ought to be a behavioral standard that calls for at least a user talk message prior to moving a draft someone's written entirely themselves to mainspace. Sometimes editors sit on drafts for awhile, for instance because of sourcing concerns, and may even start working on something else (while this has happened to me, I'm not complaining about any specific instance since I'm ultimately fine with the choice of the editor who made the pagemove). I just think that, particularly where the creator is active, and the draft isn't so old as to be G13-eligible, the creator's input (though not necessarily permission) should be sought before moving it out of userspace. —/Mendaliv//_Δ's/ 11:19, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I stumbled on this thread, excuse the intrusion. Unfortunately the discussion has taken my rather irrational but troubling article creation phobia to a whole new level. It was my understanding that a sandbox was a private user space, a workshop, a garage, where one could create and tinker in peace on work. Editors may not "own" articles but individual editors create the article concept. That is an individual, not a collegiate process. So one could one be working on an article, have the cites, pics, text 90% ready, and then it is taken? How does this explain the scores of "Articles I have created" lists on the talkpages of some of our most prolific content-creators?. There does appear to be an original conceptual "ownership", until an article is released onto mainspace, where it does indeed become common intellectual property, to be worked on by all. I find this concept mildly disturbing. Irondome (talk) 13:20, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

@Irondome: is that a thinly veiled accusation of OWNership aimed at myself? GiantSnowman 13:40, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

No. Irondome (talk) 13:48, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I quote the intro to WP:OWN — Even though editors can never "own" an article, it is important to respect the work and ideas of your fellow contributors. Yes, you have the legal right to copy someone's sandbox into mainspace, but you absolutely must attribute it, and if you don't (e.g. this situation), you've committed copyright infringement. Copying it to mainspace, with proper attribution, is legal, but it goes against our community norms, and in most cases it's definitely not respectful. The answers to "Is X legal" and "Is X appropriate" are very often significantly different. Nobody's likely to complain if you move content to mainspace from the sandbox of a user who's been inactive for a long time, but (1) you still ought to leave a talk page note, in case the user comes back, and (2) that's because good content ought not be forgotten simply because the user's no longer active. This is quite different from when the user is still active; even if you think its writer has forgotten it, you should simply leave a talk page note, not copy the content to mainspace. Nyttend (talk) 18:44, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

As I said on the user's page, moving something from someone else's user space "is like a stranger walking up and eating food from your plate at a restaurant, without asking." Even if done with attribution, it is still a rude act. While it doesn't break any copyright policy if done properly, as a behavior, it should be discouraged. You should ask first unless you know the user is no longer active. While none of us owns our user space, there is no question that we each are granted a higher degree of control over it, and this should be respected. Dennis - 2¢ 19:32, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Nominations for the 2014 English Misplaced Pages Arbitration Committee elections are open

Nominations for the 2014 English Misplaced Pages Arbitration Committee elections are officially open. The nomination period runs from Sunday 00:01, 9 November (UTC) until Tuesday 23:59, 18 November (UTC). Editors interested in running should review the eligibility criteria listed at the top of Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2014/Candidates then create a candidate page following the instructions there. Mike V • Talk 00:57, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

More admins at CFD, please

WP:CFD has a major backlog - going as far back as early August. Some help out there would be useful. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:58, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I second this. A couple of admins spending an hour or two on this would clear it today. Lugnuts 18:30, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Requests for Comment/User:PBS - Admin misconduct

I'm short of time and need to leave on a trip where will not have any internet. I put an RFC together on my talk page with the precious few minutes I have. I'm several hours late departing for a fairly long sabatical and did not have time to do the whole process. Please be kind, I don't deserve the treatment I've received.~Technophant (talk) 19:19, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

In my absence I authorize my friend and esteemed colleague User:P123ct1 to edit this RFC/U and answer question on my behalf. He has over 25% of the total edits to the ISIL page and has been instrumental in helping me curate this article since we both started in May of this year. (If this RFC/U could get transferred to it's proper place that would be best.) Bye for now.~Technophant (talk) 19:56, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand the urgency or timing of this request, honestly. If you're leaving, and won't be able to even edit for several days, a week, or longer, why the rush to have interaction bans imposed in your absence? As near as I can figure out, that's all you're requesting. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:10, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I was not consulted about this. I only learned of this RfC/U half an hour ago via an email from Technophant and this delegation of responsibility was not mentioned. I have been given a responsibility I was not asked to undertake. This will have to wait for his return. ~ P123ct1 (talk) 20:18, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure that policy permits one person to speak for another anyway, at least to this extent. WP:Power of attorney is a redlink.... Dennis - 2¢ 20:25, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be better to come back from your trip, then start a Rfc/U & avoid proxies? GoodDay (talk) 20:30, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Given P123ct1's unwillingness to be the proxy, it won't be possible for this RFCU to happen. And I agree, it would be quite a bad idea for us to have some sort of POA system. "Can you do X for me" is appropriate if you're asking someone else to take responsibility, and I doubt if anyone would complain (on principle) if you say "Can you copy/paste what I wrote", but making one person responsible for another person's actions is confusing and really ought not be done. Nyttend (talk) 20:49, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't see much problem with it. You're going on a trip and can't edit Misplaced Pages in that time frame, so you make sure someone trusted--who you know shares your concerns drafts it--that's fine. He's not blocked, so it's not 'proxying', he's asking someone he trusts to edit the page with the concerns since he feels it's urgent enough to warrant it. No problem with that, and I don't know of any policy/guideline that prohibits it. Tutelary (talk) 21:26, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Tutelary: Have you read my comments? I was not asked. ~ P123ct1 (talk) 21:34, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Even with your acceptance, it wouldn't matter. Speaking hypothetically, what if you then go and vandalize articles, make personal attacks against a bunch of people, then delete the front page, and claim you were doing it on his behalf? That is the problem, the concept itself is completely flawed and will never see the light of day in any policy here. Dennis - 2¢ 21:42, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

No, that's outside of the view that the user tried to guise him to do. There's a whole difference between that is 'Hey, I'm going away for a few days and I believe that this RFC/U is urgent enough and I need someone to draft it for me. X user has permission to do so.' versus blatant vandalism, personal attacks, and the like. How so, Dennis? You're going to the maximum extreme in this sort and I don't like it. It's common sense. When you tell a user to draft something for you, and they then go vandalize and try to blame it on you, that's a Competence is required problem, not a 'who can I pin my trollish antics on' problem. And yes, P123ct1, I did, I was referring to the general idea of it. Tutelary (talk) 21:47, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Extremes are used to demonstrate points. The main point is that no where at Misplaced Pages is another editor allowed to speak on behalf of another. Even with his permission, no policy authorizes it. Dennis - 2¢ 21:55, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

...no policy disallows it either. Tutelary (talk) 21:59, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

FWIW, there is a rather slight precedent for having other individuals presenting information in another person's name, even to ArbCom. I did that once myself regarding an arb regarding an editor named Mattise or Mattisse or Matisse or something along those lines. Granted, I have no direct knowledge if it has ever been done any other time though. John Carter (talk) 22:02, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

There is a difference is relaying information/text (something I've done myself) and making decisions without their ongoing knowledge for another user. That has no precedent that I know of, and I can't see the community remotely allowing that to happen. Dennis - 2¢ 22:09, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I was restraining myself in my comment. The behaviour is unethical. ~ P123ct1 (talk) 20:59, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you; your opposition to the idea (as opposed to simply not feeling like helping) was evident in your first sentence, and I agree with you. If you want someone to undertake something big for you, by all means you need to get the person's consent well beforehand, rather than asking at the last moment and assuming a "yes" answer. Nyttend (talk) 21:13, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I repeat, I was not asked, and the RfC/U itself was never discussed with me before it appeared either. ~ P123ct1 (talk) 21:20, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

The RFC/U isn't set up appropriately. If not certified in 48 hrs it would be deleted. He list it as certified on his talk page but it doesn't seem to be so.It seems he feels it's active.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 21:26, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

It isn't a proper RfC/U. However, I'm not sure an Admin has the power to say "You are not to discuss Gregkaye's behaviour in any other Wikipeida forum." (for 24 hours). User:Nyttend, User:Dennis Brown, User:TenOfAllTrades, what do you all think? Can this be done under General sanctions? Dougweller (talk) 21:45, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh no do not get me wrong, I'm only mentioning that it wasn't set up properly. I'm just mentioning this so that if in 48 hours nothing changes in regards to it it can be deleted.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 21:49, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

In the immortal words of a fellow editor, I'm out of here! ~ P123ct1 (talk) 21:54, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

We could say it properly, e.g. "Your behavior has been so disruptive that you are not...forum, or I will block you". Of course it's easily overturnable by any other admin, not to mention commmunity consensus. Never got into general sanctions (whether requesting, enforcing, being subject to, etc.), so I can't speak to that. Haven't looked at the RFCU page, so I can't comment on the substantial bits. Nyttend (talk) 21:57, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

As Technophant say (s)he has gone way on a fairly long sabatical then as far as I can tell, there is no need to keep the ban in place as I only imposed it to reduce the tension between two editors. So I intend to lift the ban on both of the editors immediately. -- PBS (talk) 22:21, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I lifted the ban at 22:34, 9 November 2014 (diff) Technophant makes an edit at 22:52, 9 November 2014. -- PBS (talk) 23:03, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

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