Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 03:55, 28 December 2014

Jimbo welcomes your comments and updates. He holds the founder's seat on the Wikimedia Foundation's Board of Trustees. The three trustees elected as community representatives until July 2015 are SJ, Phoebe, and Raystorm. The Wikimedia Foundation Senior Community Advocate is Maggie Dennis.

This is Jimbo Wales's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

Archives: Index, Index, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252Auto-archiving period: 1 day

This user talk page might be watched by friendly talk page stalkers, which means that someone other than me might reply to your query. Their input is welcome and their help with messages that I cannot reply to quickly is appreciated.

Archives

Index –index– October 28, 2001 – April 12, 2004 April 16, 2004 – August 23, 2004 August 28, 2004 – December 8, 2004 December 9, 2004 – March 23, 2005 March 23, 2005 – July 24, 2005 July 26, 2005 – September 9, 2005 September 9, 2005 – September 24, 2005 September – December 2005 January 2006 January – February 2006 February 2006 February 2006, cont. March 2006 April 2006 – late May 2006 May 24 – July 2006 July 2006 – August 2006 August 2006 Most of September 2006 Late September 2006 – Early November 2006 Most of November 2006 Late November 2006 – December 8, 2006 December 9, 2006 – Mid January 2007 From December 22, 2006 blanking Mid January 2007 – Mid February 2007 Mid February 2007– Feb 25, 2007 From March 2, 2007 blanking March 2–5, 2007 March 5–11, 2007 March 11 – April 3, 2007 April 2 – May 2, 2007 May 3 – June 7, 2007 June 9 – July 4, 2007 July 13 – August 17, 2007 August 17 – September 11, 2007 September 14 – October 7, 2007 October 28 – December 1, 2007 December 2 – December 16, 2007 December 15 – January 4, 2008 January 4 – January 30, 2008 January 30 – February 28, 2008 February 28 – March 11, 2008 March 9 – April 18, 2008 April 18 – May 30, 2008 May 30 – July 27, 2008 July 26 – October 4, 2008 October 4 – November 12, 2008 November 10 – December 10, 2008 December 5 – December 25, 2008 December 25 – January 16, 2009 January 15 – January 27, 2009 January 26 – February 10, 2009 February 8 – March 18, 2009 March 18 – May 6, 2009 May 5 – June 9, 2009 June 10 – July 11, 2009 July 12 – August 25, 2009 August 26 – October 3, 2009 October 4 – November 20, 2009 November 20 – December 21, 2009 December 22, 2009 – January 25, 2010 January 22, 2010 – February 22, 2010 February 22, 2010 – March 17, 2010 March 17, 2010 – April 9, 2010 April 11, 2010 – April 24, 2010 April 23, 2010 – May 12, 2010 May 10, 2010 – June 4, 2010 June 4, 2010 – June 26, 2010 June 26, 2010 – July 22, 2010 July 22, 2010 – August 23, 2010 August 4, 2010 – August 28, 2010 August 28, 2010 – September 14, 2010 September 13, 2010 – October 6, 2010 October 6, 2010 – November 8, 2010 November 8, 2010 – November 21, 2010 November 21, 2010 – December 6, 2010 December 6, 2010 – December 22, 2010 December 21, 2010 – January 17, 2011 January 16, 2011 – February 10, 2011 February 6, 2011 – March 19, 2011 March 16, 2011 – March 26, 2011 March 26, 2011 – April 22, 2011 April 22, 2011 – May 16, 2011 May 17, 2011 – June 9, 2011 June 10, 2011 – July 1, 2011 July 1, 2011 – July 15, 2011 July 16, 2011 – July 26, 2011 July 26, 2011 – August 15, 2011 August 14, 2011 – August 23, 2011 August 21, 2011 – August 31, 2011 August 30, 2011 – September 7, 2011 September 4, 2011 – September 25, 2011 September 26, 2011 – October 19, 2011 October 16, 2011 – November 5, 2011 November 4, 2011 – November 12, 2011 November 11, 2011 – November 24, 2011 November 24, 2011 – December 6, 2011 December 3, 2011 – December 14, 2011 December 10, 2011 – December 16, 2011 (RFC about the Stop Online Piracy Act) December 15, 2011 – December 30, 2011 December 27, 2011 – January 9, 2012 January 9, 2012 – January 18, 2012 January 17, 2012 – January 30, 2012 January 28, 2012 – February 12, 2012 February 7, 2012 – February 25, 2012 February 19, 2012 – March 4, 2012 February 27, 2012 – March 18, 2012 March 17, 2012 – April 2, 2012 March 31, 2012 – April 13, 2012 April 12, 2012 – April 18, 2012 April 18, 2012 – April 26, 2012 April 26, 2012 – May 6, 2012 May 2, 2012 – May 22, 2012 May 19, 2012 – June 9, 2012 June 4, 2012 – June 20, 2012 June 18, 2012 – June 28, 2012 June 26, 2012 – July 12, 2012 July 3, 2012 – July 22, 2012 July 19, 2012 – July 29, 2012 July 25, 2012 – August 9, 2012 August 7, 2012 – August 30, 2012 August 29, 2012 – September 13, 2012 September 13, 2012 – September 27, 2012 September 26, 2012 – October 5, 2012 September 24, 2012 – October 20, 2012 October 9, 2012 – October 31, 2012 October 29, 2012 – November 19, 2012 November 17, 2012 – December 5, 2012 December 2–15, 2012 December 15–28, 2012 December 24, 2012 – January 12, 2013 January 13–31, 2013 February 1–10, 2013 February 11–28, 2013 March 1–16, 2013 March 17–27, 2013 March 28 – April 6, 2013 April 6–19, 2013 April 19 – May 3, 2013 April 25 – May 8, 2013 May 6–19, 2013 May 18–30, 2013 May 27 – June 16, 2013 June 17–30, 2013 June 27 – July 30, 2013 July 31 – August 4, 2013 August 4–12, 2013 August 13–27, 2013 August 28 – September 4, 2013 September 5–10, 2013 September 11–22, 2013 September 24 – October 6, 2013 October 7–16, 2013 October 17–27, 2103 October 28 – November 6, 2013 November 7–19, 2013 November 20–27, 2013 November 28 – December 5, 2013 December 6–24, 2013 December 25–30, 2013 December 31, 2013 – January 14, 2014 January 15–24, 2014 January 25–29, 2014 January 30 – February 10, 2014 Archives not yet dated: 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 This manual archive index may be out of date. Future archives: 184 185 186

This page has archives. Sections older than 24 hours may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 2 sections are present.

Check Your Fireplace

Mele Kalikimaka

Have a bright Hawaiian Christmas!--Mark Miller (talk) 16:49, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Now, there's a phrase I learned fom writing Christmas in Hawaii. Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (remark) @ 22:42, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Like Christmas in Hawaii is a unique experience for sure.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:58, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy Holydays and the New Year 2015!

Dear Jimbo, Happy Holydays and the New Year 2015!

Now sorry again that I have a difficult question for you. It is about Draft:Igor Janev. Igor Janev should be classified under WP:NPOL person, since he was Special Adviser of the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Macedonia in 2002. See more from data base Macedonian Emigration Agency (national government source:"Специјален советник на Министерот за надворешни работи" in eng. Special Adviser of the Minister of Foreign Affairs) in Macedonian lang. . In any country Special Advisor to the MFA is WP:NPOL by definition of Misplaced Pages. See Special Adviser status.183.86.209.161 (talk) 17:34, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Good first try at an article. Welcome to Misplaced Pages.

The entire process for new people creating new pages is fucked up.

If, instead of following 'best advice', you'd made an account, made 10 edits, and waited 4 days - you could have made a live page, then it'd be very unlikely to be deleted.

The easiest answer is probably to do that now. Otherwise you'll be swamped with well-meaning but largely useless advice.

If I had an account, I'd just make it a live page. That means making a user account and 10 edits (to anything) and waiting 4 days, and I can't be arsed. Maybe you can.

Misplaced Pages politics is bullshit.

Happy Christmas, new person.

Jimbo, in case you read this, please realise that the way 'drafts' (prev AFC) circumvent the prevention of new people making articles (post-Seigenthaler) is killing the wiki; AFC/drafts clearly can't cope with helping new people (check the backlog) - let 'em make articles, and let the (over)keen patrol admin-wannabe's who can't write for shit sort out the mess. Crap gets speedied within minutes because there's a hella lot more people out there who get their kicks from deleting things than making them (and, fair enough, can't write articles). Happy Xmas to you, too; I hope you might listen to this, and make the wiki much more friendly to new users by treating all new articles the same way, instead of the current fucked up 'drafts' v. CSD-warnings etc. 88.104.28.116 (talk) 01:10, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

P.S. I feel sufficiently strongly about the issue that I've made this account, I'll wait 4 days and copy it over to a live article (WADR to the wiki's perceived acceptable practices of links to prior publication).

Maybe Mr. Wales can think about how to fix this for all case, instead of some random annoyed person butting in.

The way new people get their intro to make new articles is really fucked up. Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 01:31, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

If new users ask for help, they might get a response in a couple of weeks - and it'll probably be telling them that the references aren't good enough;

There are 2,826 pending submissions in Category:Pending AfC submissions.

If they ignore 'best advice' and make a user account, 4 days later they can make a live article.

Of course it might then be speedy-deleted if it's utter crap, but if it isn't total crap they'll have a chance to fix it - and people will even help try to find sources (in AFD).

Fundamental problem: More people can use clicky-tools to 'tag for speedy deletion' and 'warn user' etc than can actually help 'em make new pages,

Answer: Treat all new users the same. Let 'em try to make articles, and wikipedia can try to help them.

What a wonderful world it'd be. Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 01:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

This thread from the Wikimedia Stewards Noticeboard archives may be of relevance here: . There were concerns that Janev is not as notable as was claimed. Articles on Janev have twice been deleted from the English Misplaced Pages. I think it is safe to assume that the sources in any new article on Janev will receive particular scrutiny. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:44, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

If it was made live, it'd likely survive AFD. As a draft, the new person just gets a shitstorm of rejection. Do you disagree?

(There is more to this than this article; it's really just a typical example). Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:02, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

It would be more likely to survive (as a draft or otherwise) if it had properly-formatted references. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:06, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps more importantly:

I made this account so that, in 4 days, I can copy the article live. Not to really make a point, but because - having discussed the specific case - I feel a need to give it a fair try.

The specific article isn't really the reason I'm intervening here; it's because of the blatant way that new articles are treated very differently from drafts.

In an ideal world, Misplaced Pages users would help all new users with their early articles.

Real world: there are not enough good editors to do so.

That's fine; that's just the way things are. OK, so, given that...we should at least treat everyone the same way.

Currently there are two very disparate systems;

A) DRAFTS - wait 2 or 3 weeks, get a review. Likely get rejected for 'lack of sources' with spam-template messages. At least you get some idea how to fix it.

B) Make live article. If it's complete crap, it gets speedy-deleted. Fair enough.

The problem I have is, a large number of good users spend their time trying to help A. But sadly, A is snowed-under, and full of spam.

A great many good-potential new users use B and get no real help at all, just spammed warnings (CSD, etc).

Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:09, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Andy, It would be more likely to survive (as a draft or otherwise) if it had properly-formatted references - so, fix them! That's easy for experienced users, but super-hard for new ones.

That is the entire point here.

New users need help, not spam templates.

"properly-formatted references" is just wikipedia internal crap. Formatting is just meh. And stops new users getting involved. Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:11, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I cannot fix references for material I cannot read. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:25, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

(Assuming you mean because it is in Macedonian)

Sure Andy, so, if you came across this as a live article elsewhere you'd leave it to others, right?

That's what I mean about this double-standard;

Live articles are 'good until proven bad',

drafts are 'bad until proven good'. Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:30, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

If I came across this article, knowing as I do that an article on the same subject had already been deleted twice, I'd find someone who could read the sources to see if they supported the claims made. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. And that's cool.

But, because it is just a draft, it doesn't get that treatment. It just gets 'rejected', so it is never even evaluated! Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 02:40, 28 December 2014 (UTC)