Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:11, 19 July 2006

Regarding injury or death:

From: "Testimony of Representative Frank D. Riggs before the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime". Link provided below.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/35016.htm

" ... The results of monkeywrenching vary. Most of the time it causes the cessation of logging activities. Often times it causes property damage. In Ukiah, California, which is in my Congressional District, it killed a logger. Too many times these activities have caused grave injury and even the loss of life. Many a rigger, logger and treefeller have suffered injury because of a severed hydraulic line or tree spike. Yet the Earth First! website and the Earth First! Journal actually advertise and sell Ecodefense: A Field Guide to Monkeywrenching."

The conclusion also states this:

"The systematic, organized ecoterrorism of Earth First! and other militant organizations must stop. Lives have been lost. Too many communities have been damaged. Too much time has been wasted. These organizations are a threat to every American who dares to think differently than they do."

However, no specific names, dates or incidents are provided for verification. Further, the opening paragraphs put the Representative on record with industrial and business interests. Logging is characterised as follows:

"The North Coast is known for its abundance of Redwood and Douglas Fir forests. Today, as in generations past, men and women come to this place to make a living as foresters and loggers and mill workers. These environmental stewards manage the forests with love for the environment and rational science to provide wood for our nation and a future for their children."

I was raised in Coos County, Oregon. The experience there is that when the trees are cut down, the mills close and people are laid off. This was accelerated in the 80s by mass cutting and export of logs to Japanese customers who were stockpiling them in under ocean storage sites. For the last decade unemployment in Coos County has topped 20% due to the efforts of these "environmental stewards".

In my view, Representative Riggs is not a creditable source for allegations of death resulting from Earth First "terrorist" activities" without supporting specifics that are verifable.

user:mirwin

ABC

From an ABC new site, Heather Maher is presented as an investigative journalist who has investigated and written about ecoterrorism. She states no injury or deaths have occurred. Link to full chat below:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/chat_maherecoterror102799.html

Heather Maher at 2:16pm ET "ELF and other groups who practice economic sabotage to prevent the destruction of wild spaces have made it clear that they never want to harm a life, human or non-human. They plan their activities at night, when people are not around. Though a few incidents have come close to harming people, there has never been a human injury or death from any of their actions. As to whether or not a human casualty WOULD stop their plans, I'm not in a position to speculate, but I would think they wouldn't want that to happen anymore than we do."

user:mirwin

Essay

http://www.tidepool.org/hp/hpterror.cfm This essay seems to be written by an environmentalist opposed to terrorism tactics and also claims no injuries or deaths to date.

user:mirwin

Oregon

From: http://www.rdrop.com/~pjw/dianereport.html "Report on Terrorism and Task Forces 1/11/01 Diane Lane, Portland, OR"

"In September of 1999, the Oregonian did a four part series entitled, "Crimes in the name of the environment. Eco-Terrorism Sweeps the American West." According to this lengthy report, "Arson, bombings and sabotage in the name of saving the environment and its creatures have swept the American West over the last two decades and Oregon is increasingly the center of it all. At least 100 major acts of such destruction have occurred in the West since 1980, causing $42.8 million in damages." The newspaper based such statements on its examination of police, government, and court files. Most of the incidents involve arson, some using incendiary devices and pipe bombs to destroy property such as the Vail Ski Resort because of its plans to expand, which could have a harmful affect on the lynx. No one was harmed or killed in any of these acts of so called eco-terrrorism."

"It is interesting to note that although all of the law enforcement personnel, politicians and business owners interviewed and quoted in the Oregonian series expressed grave concern for the damage to property, there was no evidence of concern regarding the activists who were injured or killed in their quest to protect natural resources such as the death of David Chain, an Earth First! activist who died when a Pacific Lumber Company logger felled a nearby tree, and the bombing of Judi Bari. which shattered her pelvis and damaged her spine."

This article has a lengthy bibliography with many online links. Most dated within the last 5 years.

user:mirwin

Heck, the FBI even tried to claim that Judi Bari built the bomb that blew up under her in her car. See http://forests.org/archive/america/unmyjudi.htm -- Zoe

Would a reference to the Tom Clancy novel Rainbow Six (which featured environmental extremists), be appropriate? - erznegel

Edits

I edited the sentence that said To date no one has been killed as a result of an ELF or ALF action, though murders have been attempted by these groups. because this is impossible. The ELF and ALF explicitly state that killing or injuring human or non-human life is to be avoided, so if anyone did try to murder someone in the name of the environment (such as the unabomber) they could not claim to represent the ELF or ALF because they violated the basic guidelines of both groups. This is not to say radical environmentalists have not attempted to murder people (like alluded to above, the Unabomber did kill people), just that the ELF and ALF have not.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.142.238.53 (talk • contribs) 06:16, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

3 Cs

Michael Crichton is a novelist, and as such any use of his statements as criticism is the logical error rgument from authority, as he is not a qualified person but merely a known person. Even were that not the case, the article linked to stated quite clearly that he gave no cites or explanation for his figures - in other words, he pulled them out of thin air. This was not made clear in the addition to the article: Instead of "Michael Crichton said '(quote)' but it is clear this is complete bollocks and he is talking out of his ass" the quote was given as though there were some sort of substance to it. While this might be interesting trivia on the Crichton article, it is not relevant here.

Ann Coulter wrote a book criticizing Liberals, not Radicals, her book is not even close to germaine here.

The Religion and Nature pdf was not linked to directly, I'm guessing that was a decision for accessibility? At any rate, it is by Bron Taylor and this may indeed be legitimate criticism which merits inclusion. the paragaph which was supposedly sourced by this pdf mentions "those who profit from resource extraction of various sorts", along with a lot of names they call radical environmentalists. I see none of this in the pdf - if I am missing it, please let me know. The paragraph also mentioned "other environmentalists as well as a wide variety of religious actors, social justice advocates, and political theorists. " Bron Taylor is religious, but is he an "actor"? Please clarify what the heck is meant by "religious actor" because all that comes to my mind is someone performing in a Miracle play. KillerChihuahua 11:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Crichton is a published writer with a point of view on the topic. That makes him relevant. --Uncle Ed 14:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

1) Nonsense, this is false authority 2) your use of his quote is highly misleading. I note you have only addressed the novelist who writes techno-thrillers for a living, and not the other points. KillerChihuahua 14:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it's an appeal to false authority, and that is important if this was a discussion on the validity of radical environmentalism, but this is an encyclopedia. I'd say it counts as mentionable. I personally disagree with a lot of it, especially since (as mentioned above) he doesn't give any real evidence to support his claims. But he is notable, having written a novel about radical environmentalists and the link, however flawed the reasoning is, should be included. The Ungovernable Force 21:37, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I think, KC, you are confusing Misplaced Pages policy on citing sources with Appeal to authority: Allow me to quote from Logical fallacies:

• Referencing scientific research published in a peer-reviewed journal. "Science (in the form of an article in a prestigious journal) says X, therefore X is so".

If Misplaced Pages used this as a standard, there would be no articles on science. On the contrary, as Dr. C. points out (re: global warming) and FM points out (re: evolution and intelligent desigin), Misplaced Pages relies heavily on peer-reviewed journal articles for sources.

For matters less scholarly than hard science, any published author with a point of view may be sourced. --Uncle Ed 15:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not confusing them, I linked directly to the logical fallacies article. That a flaw in logic isn't a Wikipolicy does not suddenly make the logic flawless.

You're comparing apples to oranges when you compare a peer-reviewed journal being used as a source for a scientific article to using Crichton here. Crichton has no expertise in environmentalism whatsoever. He's not an expert. And the link is not to a "peer reviewed" or even reviewed paper anywhere, it was a toss-off comment that he made, with no explanation. He's a novelist not an expert. Umberto Eco is the only novelist I can think of who is an expert, and he's an expert medievalist. Crichton doesn't even have a relevant degree, let alone any expertise. KillerChihuahua 15:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)