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Spartaz (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

I'm a long term user (first edit 2006) and have been an admin on or off since 2007. When we first started there was so much idealism and we really had no strong policies about inclusion except a desire to have some level of sourcing. As time moved on we became more structured and around the time I became an admin in 2007 we were grappling with the concept of collapsing non notable articles into lists which I was at the forefront of as a regular afd closer and constant presence at DRV. I had a lot of patience once and for that reason was regular DRV closer for a long time after GR Berry left the project. Sadly, my patience was degraded over time and getting involved in the PORNBIO wars pretty much washed out a lot of the good faith that policy and courtesy quite rightly requires us to show. This was again a major change in our approach to content and one of the first SNGs that was deprecated in favour of a more rigid approach to proper sourcing. Since then our content in this area has become much better and we are seeing similar struggles now in the sports arena where SNGs are slowly giving way to GNG level standards.

I have always taken a very legalistic approach to closing discussions that I recognise does not fit well to the current community standard, where low participation level allowing more brigading of votes or allowing more non-policy based arguments. For this reason I'm not really closing discussions but will still happily review old closes. Otherwise I mostly review and nominate unsuitable content as a BLP is a serious matter and needs to be properly sourced.

i am willing to userfy deleted articles for improvement as long as there is a reasonable likelihood that they can be saved. If you are challenging a deletion, do you have three good sources?

Useful Links:

• Deletion Review
• Articles for Deletion
• Unblocks

Please don't leave talkback templates as I always watchlist pages when I edit and I'm perfectly capable of looking for a reply myself.

You may want to increment {{Archive basics}} to |counter= 20 as User talk:Spartaz/Archive19 is larger than the recommended 150Kb.

Madison Ivy

Hey there, you deleted Madison Ivy a few weeks back and listed "Recreation of a page that was deleted per a deletion discussion" as the reason. The last time the article was deleted was over a year ago, and in this time, a lot has happened, qualifying the article for Misplaced Pages. WP:PORNBIO lists

• Has won a well-known and significant industry award. Madison Ivy has von an XBIZ Award in 2014 and has been nominated for a number of XBIZ, AVN and other awards, which definitely qualify as "significant" Y
  
• Has made unique contributions to a specific pornographic genre, such as beginning a trend in pornography; starred in an iconic, groundbreaking or blockbuster feature; or is a member of an industry Hall of Fame such as the AVN Hall of Fame, XRCO Hall of Fame or equivalent. Ivy is the only female contract star for pornographic production company Brazzers, has starred in many groundbreaking productions (e.g. This Ain’t Beverly Hills 90210 XXX, Slutty and Sluttier, etc.) and has the most viewed video on the Brazzers site. Y
  
• Has been featured multiple times in notable mainstream media. A quick look at the articles sources shows, she has given many important interviews and has been featured in various magazines multiple times: XCRITIV ], Fox Magazine ], Hustler ], 88 Miles West ] and many more. Y
  

The article clearly qualifies all the points, so I would kindly ask you to restore it. Thanks in advance! --Rayukk (talk) 12:40, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

• I'm afraid you must have read an older version as PORNBIO as the current guideline makes it clear that scene related awards don't count and neither do nominations anymore. I don't recognise being a contract star or having lots of video views as meeting #2 and for your third point I don't see that any of these sources are reliable sources for notability by Misplaced Pages standards. My judgement was that Ivy still doesn't the GNG or PORNBIO and as such the previous deletion for lack of notability remains valid. You are welcome to try Deletion review if you like. Spartaz 21:51, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Alright, well I guess there is no point in arguing then... could you provide me with the version of the article it was in, before it was deleted? I would like to keep it on my user space, in case she really does meet the conditions one day, it was quite a bit of work :D... If you could, please move it here: User:Rayukk/Madison Ivy. Thanks --Rayukk (talk) 10:43, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

DoneSpartaz 16:33, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Science and technology

I suspect the people at AFD and DRV didn't really understand that "science and technology" is a general term of art not just the conjunction of two words. Anyway, the new Science and technology looks quite nice to me though I hope we don't do the same to Research and development or, indeed, Tom and Jerry. However, a bot has come along telling us we should disambiguate incoming links and I expect it will have consequences for articles containing the incoming links and for people adding links in future. I doubt whether changing the links to "science and technology" makes sense. Maybe remove these links entirely since we now have nothing to say worth saying. Do you know how all this will affect what DPL bot does and do you have any remedial suggestions generally? Thincat (talk) 20:36, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

• if you check the user page for the bot you can see the no bot syntax to add to the page. I have taken care of this. Spartaz 20:51, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Thincat (talk) 21:11, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

User:MrRee333/Marissa Roberto

I'm curious why, when you closed Misplaced Pages:Deletion_review#Marissa_Roberto_.28closed.29, you didn't delete User:MrRee333/Marissa Roberto? As far as I can tell, it's a clear violation of both copyright and BLP policy. Putting something in user space doesn't make it exempt from those policies. @MrRee333: @Bearcat: -- RoySmith (talk) 15:42, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Users are allowed to maintain "draft" versions of future articles in their own userspace, if the page still needs further work to become includable in mainspace — but, of course, those drafts aren't allowed to stick around permanently if they remain not up to snuff and/or violate Misplaced Pages's content policies. I have my sincere doubts that MrRee333 is actually going to be able to locate a WP:GNG-satisfying level of referencing for either Marissa Roberto or the other two past hosts of the same program whom I've also listed for AFD — but since he was informed of what the problems were with the original version and clearly communicated the intention to work on them relatively immediately, I remain convinced that it was appropriate to give him the opportunity to at least try to repair the problems. That said, he's only made one edit to Misplaced Pages in the entire week since I restored the page, and that was to the Jones/Lucas AFD discussion rather than any of the articles or drafts involved — so given that the page is still in a non-compliant state after the same amount of time it would have lasted if it were in articlespace and up for AFD, I have no objections to its redeletion. Bearcat (talk) 17:40, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

• What is the BLP vio? I'm seeing fancruft but nothing harmful. An unsourced bio is not by definition a BLP vio. My reading of the DRV was that the nom was referring to other pages being verbatim copies and this was deleted A7 not G12. Its gone now. Spartaz 11:23, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
• Well, perhaps not BLP, but certainly copyvio. In any case, thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:51, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Karl Geis

Can you move to Karl Geis (judo) to Karl Geis . Thank you. CrazyAces489 (talk) 16:37, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Moving a page during a deletion discussion can be considered distruptive but I'll happily do this if the page survives. Remind me after this closes. Spartaz 20:20, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Georgia Jones

I am confused as to why you must delete everything. I am working closely with Miss Georgia Jones the (pornagrafic actress) on building a factual wiki page. After I figured out the difficulties of actually getting through your redicules rules. Which I might add SEVERAL wiki pages have false information on them. WHAT EXATLY do we need to build her Misplaced Pages page. To not be deleted. She asked me to make it, I spent hours & finally got no alerts, woke up & it was gone. How much more reliable can you get when the info comes from her. She even posted in my please don't delete this page because I gave her my log in. I need to know where the pornbio rules are. & WHAT "NEW" info & "reliable" "source" qualifies to get her page up & stay on the Internet. Ok so I read books, magazines, videos don't count. Apparently all people care about is her relationship with Charlie Sheen. She herself is writing a short bio on that to add to the page. Being I am building the MOST RELIABLE wiki page out there because I'm getting all the info from Georgia Jones herself, I would appreciate any help & co ooeration to get this page made & NOT deleted. Being told I should just make a MySpace page was an insult. No one uses MySpace anymore & GJ wants a wiki page. I would rather have an email to discuss this so I can know EXATLY what we are doing wrong. I want this page, she wants this page & her fans want this page. She is actually writing info & I will do whatever needs to be done to get this page to stay active. This will be an official wiki page because all the Info is coming from her. Other than her Penthouse Pet Of The Month & contest wins & being certified in the actress industry & her work on the Fiat video along side Pitbull & Charlie Sheen & his name is on her SAG papers. I mean I need to know what to do to get this "certified" & not deleted because of redicules reasons. Thanks PLEASE HELP ME, poison8774

• Note that I replied to this and the user's email on their talk page. Spartaz 16:37, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

I am trying to understand the deletion process better. In your comments you refer to a deletion discussion. May I ask when this discussion was held? and is there an archive of said deletion discussion? Ncmikie (talk) 16:01, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Georgia_Jones_(2nd_nomination) Spartaz 16:37, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Our disagreement

Why are you attacking me? I've been nothing but civil throughout, I would rather any issues you with me mentioned here as it has nothing to do with the discussion. The time in past we have disagreed including a close of an AfD I made which had the same outcome regardless. If you think I am a poor editor please tell me why so I can improve. I would be more than happy to work with you. Valoem 21:37, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

• Its not an attack to call out a ridiculous or specious argument. You need to stop substituting emotion and attacks on other users laced with generous helpings of assumptions of bad faith for colleagiate policy based arguments. You cannot short cuircuit an established consensus building process because you don't like the first argument to try and suit yourself. Your ridiculous defense of blatant canvassing was something special though. Fix this and we can work together. Carry on and you are going to have a lot of problems around here. Spartaz 00:06, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

To jump on the argument because you claim a policy was violated is in conflict with WP:IAR, when I see a group of people flocking to a certain subject that they have all participated in the past voting the same it is only reasonable to asked the other side to participate. Regardless, my goal is to show that many established editors take my position. I find it odd, that you are so fixed on "the right channels" being used when clearly they have impeded the expansion of this encyclopedia. If you feel that the other side has due weight please by all means participate. It would be odd to think that you feel this article is notable and yet attempt to discredit me because "the right channels" were not taken. A good example of consensus not being determined is here Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Boyd Bushman. If the closing admin was acting as a vote it should be a clear no consensus, 11 keeps 10 deletes. However, in light of the argument presented he felt that policy overrode consensus. Sources, sources, sources, they simply weren't there. Now we are on the opposite side, incel has enough sources that the article should never have been deleted, arguments suggesting the sources are not reliable is simply wrong. No one has discredited any source by academic means and no one can. Based on policy it is a clear keep since AfD is not a vote. At a minimum this article should be closed as no consensus. Now a year later here I am, we use DRV to determine whether or not the close was right determined on basis of whether or not an article can survive AfD. The only way ... is to try. Valoem 00:45, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

To highlight Boyd Bushman shows you have absolutely no understanding of deletion policy. The article was deleted at AFD and endorsed at DRV. To say that this was without consensus means that you do not understand consensus. Spartaz 07:17, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Why are purposefully misinterpreting what I am saying? I am saying the opposite, Bushman was closed with consensus, because arguments for deletion were vastly stronger than for keeping. The sourcing on Bushman's article is poor. If AfD's were a vote, which it is not, then based on the votes it would be no consensus, but as I said, we do not do that, so the delete outcome is fine. In the case of incel, the arguments for keep are vastly stronger, the sourcing undeniable. So consensus would be based on the which policy based argument is more compelling. Valoem 09:29, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm finding it increasingly hard to follow what you mean. You said it was an example of consensus not being followed and now you say it is. Spartaz 10:12, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Please explain it to me

I don't believe you and I have ever disagreed, so perhaps you'll humor me with this request. (It's possible you !voted against my 2011 RFA.) Involuntary celibacy has never been determined by process to be deleted. Yet no article or subsection covering this subject exists. Second AfD outcome was not clear, but closer made a call of Merge. I respect that someone had to close it, and it's a not unreasonable outcome. Yet talk page discussion won't let the subject matter get merged into the only reasonable target, Celibacy. Valoem has not been part of the lengthy discussions on Talk:Celibacy, so that user isn't rehashing anything, just trying to get fresh eyes on the subject. Here I come to the situation with zero history, seeing it on AfD. What seems totally not understandable to me is a group of editors demanding a delete outcome for a subject which has never been closed as delete. I can on the other hand understand why Valoem is trying a IAR approach to reviewing the subject matter. A DRV can't restore an article which has never been deleted (especially one mostly populated by the same folks participating in the AFD and the talk:Celibacy discussions); it can only approve or disapprove the closing of the AFD (which was reasonable). IAR seems the only way to go here. Perhaps I'm never going to understand deletion processes satisfactorily. Please point out the weakness in my evaluation. BusterD (talk) 21:26, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

• AFD 1 was to delete but wasn't a very satisfactory outcome.
• AFD2 was to merge with Celibacy
• DRV 1 endorsed that
• RFC 1 at Talk Celibacy rejected the merged material and it was removed
• Article them back masquerading as a BLP of as researcher that was deleted at AFD
• DRV 2 closed with no consensus to restore
• and now we have a pseudo AFD/RFC in userspace that is irrevocably tainted by canvassing by the nominator in an admitted attempt to run round the previous discussions. I personally find this breathtakingly bad form by Valoem and I hope you will forgive me for not agreeing that after 5 detailed discussions on this material (excluding the poor AFD1) we should not just ignore all that consensus and IAR on the basis of a tainted discussion. I do realise that I'm starting to get a bit short and terse over this - but honestly if you read all the exchanges with Valoem and look at his behavior it would test the patience of a saint not to start getting exasperated with this. Spartaz 21:49, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I apologize if I've come close to pushing any buttons with you. Pardon me, but AFD 1 was a clear (and almost speedy) keep. And with due respect, lots of people on the (de facto) delete side are getting exasperated, yet delete is not an outcome previously determined. In this process I see at least myself, CorporateM, DGG, and BlueRaspberry asserting keep. I think the four of us are considered editors in good standing. None of us is angry or terse (though I'll confess I provoked Coffee more than I intended; I only intended to caution against the appearance of being the admin self-chosen to moderate this issue). Of the four of us, only DGG has participated in these discussions before, and David's been pretty consistent. If an AFD procedure is closed as merge and the pagewatchers at the merge target disallow the merge, where does that leave the material with no consensus for deletion but for recreation. If Coffee was as detached as that user claims, it seems to me there'd be no big issue with closer allowing recreation in userspace, exactly as Valoem has done, for the purpose of remeasuring consensus, exactly as done. I'm new to this discussion; I'm not rehashing and as is often said, consensus does change. It could reasonably argued that if the same cast of characters are tiring of this discussion, they might avoid participating and allow other members of the community to have a voice in this outcome themselves. Why are these few so adamant about defending this tiny corner of the wiki? What makes them so angry? I don't understand. BusterD (talk) 00:55, 24 March 2015 (UTC)