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Japanese name of the North Korea-aligned high school in Tokyo

I heard there was the "Korean Junior High and High School" in Tokyo that is North Korea-aligned. What is its Japanese name?

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 10:20, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

There are a number of Korean schools in Tokyo. I don't know which if any are North Korea-aligned, but there is a list at ja:朝鮮学校#関東. – Margin1522 (talk) 22:28, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for posting this! There are certainly North Korean-aligned ones, and for a time there were more of them than South Korean-aligned ones. That may have changed recently but I'm not sure WhisperToMe (talk) 15:07, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Readings of 「八ヶ夕」 and 「六ヶ跡」?

Can anyone help me with the proper readings of 「八ヶ夕」 and 「六ヶ跡」? They're from the names of series of prints by Utagawa Toyoharu. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 00:23, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't get a single google hit for either one of those. You're sure they're correct? --Cckerberos (talk) 00:54, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Possible useful references for articles, free from the Met

The Metropolitan Museum of Art has over 400 art books free online (you can read them online or download PDFs). Here is the link for the Japanese ones. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:16, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Mukashi mukashi

Is むかしむかし (昔昔) a relevant separate topic apart from once upon a time? There's a merger notice about it at once upon a time, while the Japanese article is solely a dicdef. -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 04:23, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Merge sounds like a good idea to me. I would be bold and just do it. But there was an objection in the past to a redirect, so I created a discussion section at Talk:Once upon a time. If there are any comments they could go there. – Margin1522 (talk) 07:20, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Ogi "ji" ma or Ogi "shi" ma

I requested renaming of two Japanese islands at Talk:Ogijima and Talk:Megijima because you can know how they should be spelled at this official site of Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism. 男木島(おぎしま) should be Ogishima, and　女木島(めぎしま), Megishima. It is difficult to know whether a "島" is spelled as "shima" or "jima"; I don't know whether there are any more Japanese islands that is not correctly named.　I'd be very appreciated if anyone would check the names of Japanese islands. Thanks.--miya (talk) 16:42, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Moves done. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:04, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Flag of Ryukyu

Please consider joining the feedback request service. An editor has requested comments from other editors for this discussion. This page has been added to the following lists: History and geography Politics, government, and law Society, sports, and culture When discussion has ended, remove this tag and it will be removed from the lists. If this page is on additional lists, they will be noted below.

User:Nanshu has labeled File:Flag of Ryukyu.svg as a Misplaced Pages hoax, however he then provided three sources (from 1854, 1873, and one around the beginning of the Meiji period) that prove that the flag wasn't just made up by some random editor. He has now gone through multitudes of articles and a template with the sole edit summary of "DEL Misplaced Pages hoax". Even though this flag has been recorded 261 years ago as the "Ryukyu Kingdom flag", is it a "Misplaced Pages hoax" or should its use be restored where it was removed? ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 00:27, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

• Bankoku hakki zufu 萬國舶旗圖譜 by Matsui Nantai (1854),
• Naigai kishō chikyū kokumei 内外旗章地球國名 by Katayama Tsutomu (1873), and
• Naigai kishō binran 内外旗章便覧 by an unknown author (undated).

References

1. Matsui Nantai 松居南岱 (1854). Bankoku hakki zufu 万国舶旗図譜 (in Japanese). Retrieved 2 April 2015.
2. Katayama Tsutomu 片山勤 (1873). Naigai kishō chikyū kokumei 内外旗章地球国名 (in Japanese). Retrieved 2 April 2015.
3. University of the Ryukyus Library. "Shin shūzō Okinawa kankei shiryō no shōkai 新収蔵沖縄関係資料の紹介" (in Japanese). Retrieved 2 April 2015.

• Restore - per above. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 00:27, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Are you doing this simply to demonstrate that you have no talent for historiography? Go to a bookstore, pick up a book on the history of the United Stats, and you cannot find the Stars and Stripes. That's what's happening here. You stick to George H. Kerr's Okinawa: The History of an Island People (1958) even though I warned that it was seriously outdated. Hey, which page is devoted to the phantom flag?
  • So, have you checked the catalogs I cited? They are all available online. You can find the 清道 flag listed as the flag of Korea (朝鮮國旗). Do you know what this means?
  • Although you ignore this, I explained at the Commons image description page why these catalogs were unreliable. Even if you don't trust me (I guess so), what do you think about Kina Daisaku, a part-time curator at Naha City Museum of History, who was aware of the undated Naigai kishō binran and still concluded that he was unable to find contemporary sources in which the phantom flag was used as a national flag? --Nanshu (talk) 01:59, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Sorry for the late response. What's wrong exactly with Kerr other than his POV of Ryukyuan pacifism? Besides, I have other sources to compliment Kerr. And none that I'm aware of (my copy is missing a few pages anyhow).
    • Yes I have, they're very interesting. And I'm guessing that the Qing flag being shown as the flag of Korea is a political statement by the author? Or do you mean that they're just wrong/ignorant? Either way, just because they got one wrong doesn't mean all of them are wrong.
    • No, I read your argument fully. For one, I'm not surprised that there aren't Okinawan sources before 1945. Another thing is, what do the "many other illustrated catalogs of flags" say about Ryukyu? And if you take the 1854 source, how would the author get "access to firsthand knowledge" on any of the flags in the catalog?
    • The reason I opened this RfC was because you removed the flag as a "Misplaced Pages hoax", however you've provided sources that show otherwise. Even if it wasn't a "national flag" (maybe stylization of the Shō crest), you still prove that it was not made up on Misplaced Pages. Removing the flag as a "hoax" is the same as removing content and calling it "vandalism". ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 02:18, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
      • First of all, you mix up two different aspects of the problem. At the Commons image description pages, I created two separate sections, "As a Misplaced Pages hoax" and "In search for truth." That this is a Misplaced Pages hoax has nothing to do with the new sources I added (the latter). By calling it a Misplaced Pages hoax, I'm not talking about whether this flag should be shown at Ryūkyū-related articles but about whether this incident is worth mentioning at articles like List of Misplaced Pages controversies and Reliability of Misplaced Pages. It's not unrealistic because we now have an external source that criticizes Misplaced Pages for spreading misinformation.
      • Leaving aside the meta-discussion, I think my point is clear. A national flag is something we can easily find in the literature. If all we can salvage after serious research is obscure references, it is not what we consider the national flag. Even if we decide to mention it in articles, we must not give undue weight.
      • That said, I will answer minor questions.

        You can find illustrated catalogs of flags not showing the phantom flag at the National Diet Library Digital Collections (e.g. ).

        清道 means to clear the road. The 清道 flag was flown at the front of the procession of a diplomatic mission in order to get rid of people for passage (see ). In the catalogs I added, you can see this flag is referred to as 國旗, which we translate as "national flag" today. Apparently, the authors of these catalogs had considerably different notions of 國旗 from us.

        Kerr's book is seriously outdated. You may think that there is no significant progress in archaeology and historiography in the last half century. That's totally wrong. Major archaeological discoveries were triggered by the construction boom after Okinawa's return to Japan in 1972. Sai Taku's edition of the Chūzan Seifu was discovered in 1972. It is a missing link between the Chūzan Seikan and Sai On's edition of the Chūzan Seifu, and we now have a far deeper understanding on how Sai On rewrote history. Anyway, what I mean by mentioning Kerr's book is that it should have mentioned the phantom flag if it was what we consider the national flag.

      • --Nanshu (talk) 16:23, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
        • I didn't mix them up, the latter contradicts the former. How can the flag be a Misplaced Pages hoax if 1) the flag preexists Misplaced Pages (and the Internet) 2) there are at least three sources that explicitly say this was the national flag of Ryukyu.
        • And I wouldn't call these sources "obscure". Also, the catalog you just provided a link to has two major problems: it also uses the 清道 flag for the flag of Korea, and it doesn't use the "phantom" flag because there is no entry for Ryukyu. Please point out the Ryukyuan flag for me, because double checking failed me.
        • No, I know a lot came out in the 60s and 70s. But again, I don't only rely on Kerr. And yes, I suppose he'd at least mention a flag. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 02:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

If there are only vague historical references to the flag, I think we should stop using the image for WP:RYUKYU, regardless of its factuality. Images associated with a WikiProject should be a strongly associated symbol of that topic, such as the treble clef and note for WP:MUSICIAN or the extreme deep field for WP:COSMOLOGY. How can we say that flag represents the Ryukyus when barely anyone has heard of it? I suggest something like Shuri Castle (it's the image used for 'history of Okinawa' and the Chinese Ryukyu wiki project already) or a shisa design. --Prosperosity (talk) 03:00, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

This isn't about using the flag to represent the WikiProject, it's about its use as the national flag of the Ryukyu Kingdom on Misplaced Pages, which Nanshu claims was never the national flag is a Misplaced Pages hoax and therefore should be removed entirely. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 03:24, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Have there been any attempts to ask for input from Japanese-speaking Wikipedians on the ja:Misplaced Pages:Chatsubo? Especially since this is a Commons-related issue too. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:06, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

There was some discussion on the talk page of ja:琉球王国 back in 2008 . Apparently the flag was on the page at that time, but it was later removed. Michitaro (talk) 01:29, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I have never claimed that the phantom flag was never the national flag. That's probatio diabolica. --Nanshu (talk) 16:23, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I rephrased it. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 22:52, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

• I call for third opinions. Expecting Sturmgewehr88 to use common sense is found to be fruitless.
• Just for clarification, I have no opinion on the use of the phantom flag in the Ryukyu task force. I'm not a participant and probably will never be. I just feel that it ironically symbolizes the nature of the task force. --Nanshu (talk)

Common sense? Common sense says (after you provided sources) that the flag isn't a Misplaced Pages hoax, therefore it shouldn't be removed as a hoax.

I'm actually surprised that you only removed the flag from a couple dozen pages and not completely removed it from Misplaced Pages. But how does it symbolize "the nature" of the task force? ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 22:52, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

I notified the Japanese Misplaced Pages that there needs to be input from editors who are able to read and interpret the sources. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:44, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Per WP:NOR, please avoid original research. I'm happy to consider other points of view and if you've actually read the "discussion on the talk page of ja:琉球王国", you'll notice that what i said is true. In fact, no treatises in refereed academic journals have reliable opinions about the Flag of Ryukyu, and these bibliographies should not be regarded as a reliable source that can check the information. --Infinite0694 (talk) 14:19, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Articles on Japanese sojourners in the USA

I'm not sure if these fit with "Japanese Americans" or not, so I'd like to post these Japanese-language articles and see where they should go:

• Agatsuma, Toshihiro (我妻 敏博; Division of Special Education (上越教育大学障害児教育講座)). "The Educational Circumstances of Japanese Handicapped Children in the U.S." (在米日本人障害児の実状(その1) : 日本人学校,補習授業校,私立の在外教育施設に対する調査; Archive). Bulletin of Joetsu University of Education (上越教育大学研究紀要) 21(1), 163-172, 2001. Joetsu University of Education. See profile at CiNii. See profile at Joetsu University of Education Academic Institutional Repository (上越教育大学リポジトリ). English abstract available.
• Minami, Yasusuke (南 保輔; Seijo University). "Cultural Identity and Socialization Experiences of Japanese High School Students in the U.S.A. : From a Communication Ecology Study Using Interviews and Time Management Records" (アメリカの「日本人」高校生の文化アイデンティティと社会化経験 : コミュニケーションエコロジー調査から; Archive). Communication Studies (コミュニケーション紀要) 21, 1-34, 2010-03. Seijo University. See profile at CiNii. See profile at Seijo University Library (成城大学リポジトリ). English abstract available.

WhisperToMe (talk) 05:22, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Also I would like to have feedback on whether this article is relevant enough to "Hoshū jugyō kō" or if there is a better place for it:

• Langager, Mark W. (マーク・W・ランガガー; International Christian University). "Supplementary Education as a Biliteracy Acquisition Medium: The Case of Japanese Sojourners Balancing Two Academic Languages" ( バイリテラシー習得媒体としての補習教育：二つの学習言語を両立させる日本人海外子女の事例; Archive). Educational Studies (教育研究) (52), 17-28, 2010-03-31. International Christian University. See profile at CiNii. See profile at International Christian University Repository (国際基督教大学リポジトリ). English abstract available.

WhisperToMe (talk) 09:21, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages requests for comment