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Revision as of 16:22, 30 April 2015 editAbecedare (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators33,231 edits →Recent additions: new section← Previous edit		Revision as of 19:45, 30 April 2015 edit undoEshwar.om (talk \| contribs)1,654 edits →Recent additions Next edit →
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	# ''']''': and are even more clearly undue, given that the text is primarily dedicated to ] and only contains an opening invocation to Ganesha (the wikipedia article already notes the fact the Ganesha, as the lord of beginnings, is commonly propitiated at the start of ventures and ''Tirumandhiram'' is just one example amongst thousands of this). Also note that the cited sources are irrelevant/being misrepresented/unreliable in that the two that two of them discuss ''Tirumandhiram'' w/o mentioning Ganesha (not surprising given the focus of the text); while the , which is a non-scholarly English translation of ''Tirumandhiram'' by an "Internationally known Indian economist and planner" and published by sectarian, religious publisher, is a primary and unreliable source that doesn't even contain the Tamil text added to the article.		# ''']''': and are even more clearly undue, given that the text is primarily dedicated to ] and only contains an opening invocation to Ganesha (the wikipedia article already notes the fact the Ganesha, as the lord of beginnings, is commonly propitiated at the start of ventures and ''Tirumandhiram'' is just one example amongst thousands of this). Also note that the cited sources are irrelevant/being misrepresented/unreliable in that the two that two of them discuss ''Tirumandhiram'' w/o mentioning Ganesha (not surprising given the focus of the text); while the , which is a non-scholarly English translation of ''Tirumandhiram'' by an "Internationally known Indian economist and planner" and published by sectarian, religious publisher, is a primary and unreliable source that doesn't even contain the Tamil text added to the article.
	It would really help if ] would discuss (substantial) future additions to the article on the talkpage, since his edits are getting ]. ] (]) 16:22, 30 April 2015 (UTC)		It would really help if ] would discuss (substantial) future additions to the article on the talkpage, since his edits are getting ]. ] (]) 16:22, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
			:Anything added from ] or Southern India side then your saying ],].Have u read fully about ],].Let me know?!]] 19:45, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

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Images Removed

Images:

Removed as hands, ears, attributes broken. No addition to iconography.
Too long; layout disturbed. Images in next section move down and are disturbed. Image crowding.

--Redtigerxyz 04:15, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

User:Eshwar.om, please respect WP:IQUEUE ("Articles may get ugly and difficult to read if there are too many images crammed onto a page with relatively little text. They may even overlap.") and STOP adding images that disturb the layout. Due to image crowding in the first section (addition of File:WLA lacma Tamil Nadu Ganesha.jpg), the first two images in Iconography are being displaced.--Redtigerxyz 08:19, 17 July 2014 (UTC) User:Redtigerxyz, WP:IQUEUE(If a contributor believes such a queued image to be essential to the article, despite the lack of text, he or she may decide to put it back in. However, he or she should not simply revert the article to its previous state, but make an attempt to re-size the images ).File:WLA lacma Tamil Nadu Ganesha.jpgnot disturb the layout too.Eshwar.om 08:39, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

User:Eshwar.om, can you please justify why this is essential to the article? Now, we have four images from Tamil side, a very loop-sided image selection.

Celebrations of Ganesh by the Tamil community in Paris
Ganesha, Karpaka Vinayakar Temple, 400 CE, Tamil Nadu.
Ganesha, 12th century,Tamil Nadu, India.
Tanjore-style painting of Ganesha

Redtigerxyz 09:58, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Please dont say like tamil side ,they are from differnt time scale.Even Ancient combodia and Thailand,java,Indonesia, srilanga also Tamil influenced.but they are not same country. Please dont say again like 'Tamil side'.UP,MP are different states.but hindi is common mother tongue for both.so the files from various dynasty and also various place .they spoken tamil language means what we do?we will not neglate that?am i correct?if all hindu people speaking same language then will we neglate all files.no right?!in other hand i am not telling all hindu people knows tamil.but the files from different place and diffent period.telungana and Andra shares same language and also same state before but now separate like tamilnadu and kerala.so simply saying tamilside which is not acceptable.Eshwar.om 10:39, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Chaple In England Turns Ganshesha into a christian Gargoyle and hangs it up next to a rat with a ear on its back

Could we add a new section here in which list the missuse and the tainting of the artistic expression of the character Ganesha for the purposes of others which cause offense to hindus and bring awarness to this on wiki?

So far i found the following...

1.Ganesha Gargoyle in a chaple in England 2.Australia beer label ganesha 3.Urban Outfitters Ganesh socks

http://www.merinews.com/article/hindus-upset-at-mounting-of-lord-ganesha-grotesque-on-windsor-chapel/15902320.shtml http://ibnlive.in.com/news/australian-brewery-juxtaposes-ganeshas-face-lakshmis-body-on-beer-bottle/432993-79.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/16/urban-outfitters-ganesh-socks_n_4454077.html 92.236.96.38 (talk) 13:07, 26 November 2014 (UTC)Caplock

Highly WP:UNDUE. Redtigerxyz 05:05, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

UNDUE Per Redtigerxyz. These incidents do not even meet WP:NOTABILITY criteria for a separate article. Gizza 00:57, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Thai and Sri Lankan names of Ganesha

The sentences about Ganesha's name in Thai and Sinhalese are unsourced and not in the original FA version. The Burmese name is sourced but was also not in the original FA. I think the worship of Ganesha in Southeast Asia is important to know but the names in their languages is undue and excessive per WP:Summary Style. For comparison Jesus is widely worshipped in many countries and has different names in many languages but not all of them are stated on the main article. Maybe Names of Ganesha can be created for detail. I personally think the Sanskrit, Buddhist Tantric and Tamil names is enough, just like in the FA. Gizza 01:03, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

minor editing notes for average readers

While this article on Ganesh was well researched and footnoted it seemed so focused on etymology it failed to miss in the first 5 paragraphs that Ganesh is widely known as the God of Wisdom,Learning, Success, and yes, The Remover Of Obstacles ( and the faith that we can remove obstacles). I am no expert but an editor doesn't have to be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.170.199.39 (talk) 17:14, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

File:Ganesh, folk art, Bharatiya Lok Kala Museum, Udaipur, India.jpg Suggestion

Hi, I suggest to include this image, which is of much better quality than File:ShriMayureshwar Morgaon.jpg. I can't find the name of the other characters. Any idea? Yann (talk) 12:37, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Mayureshwar has much more encyclopaedic value as the icon of one of the most famous Ganesha temples, which is the centre of his Ganapatya sect. --Redtigerxyz 17:58, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

ownership

i believe that users some time thinking owner of the article.they wont allow modify,re insert missed files— Preceding unsigned comment added by Eshwar.om (talk • contribs) 19:51, April 28, 2015

I assume you are referring to me and my reverts of your following three edits:

First edit, which added an image with caption "400CE,Karpaka Vinayakar Temple,Tamil Nadu, India". Note that that unsourced claim in the caption is a WP:REDFLAG claim, since it is inconsistent with scholarly sources already cited in the article. Those sources refer to Ganesha carvings, arguably dating back to ca 400CE, in the Jain cave temples/monasteries at Udayagiri, but Karpaka Vinayakar Temple is not even mentioned as far as I can tell.
Second edit, which re-added the claim, citing a self-published book that copies content from wikipedia.
Third edit, which added the temple's own website (an unreliable, self-published source) as a citation. Eshwar also removed a sourced quote from the article in which the A.K. Narain, an emeritus professor at University of Wisconsin and Banaras Hindu University and a well-cited expert in the area, had said that in his opinion, "there is no convincing evidence of the existence of this divinity prior to the fifth century." Removing this, while adding dubious inconsistent content, is pure POV-pushing.

If there are reliable sources dating the Ganesha idol at Karpaka Vinayakar Temple, those can be discussed here, but the edit-warring, POV pushing and use of poor quality sources in an FA must stop. Abecedare (talk) 20:31, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

I will provide reliable sources .even Adi vinayaga temple like human face form of very ancient ganesha temple also there in south indian state of Tamilnadu .i am wondering that are all not presented in the article.might be removed?!.iam not sure.Eshwar.om 21:15, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Eswar, if you consider only the content discussion... there is no ownership issues here, I think you are just a little upset at not having your way. Have a discussion and then make edits the way you want... when you have taken others in confidence. --AmritasyaPutra 06:51, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

karpagavinyagar file added by me in the month of july 2014.file removed in the month of december 2014 by user BOt.reason is file was deleted from commons.from july 2014 to dec 2014 there are no of edits done by various users.user Abecedare also did the edits 4 times b/w the particular period in various times.but his eyes opening only now when i am adding the file again from common.may i know the reason why he is not allowing me to edit the first appearance sec of this article?!i am wondering!:)Eshwar.om 18:57, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

may i know the reason why he is not allowing me to edit the first appearance sec of this article? I did just that in the edit-summaries, on my talkpage and right above. In short, the problem is that you don't have reliable sources for the claim you are adding.

Aside: there may also be copyright issue with the image being added. Eshwar, can you explain, how you created this image that you have marked as your "own work"? Abecedare (talk) 19:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

if files faces any copyright issues then this is not a place to discuss. i hope do you know that.Eshwar.om 22:00, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

The file you were adding to this article did turn out to be a copyvio along with a dozen others you had uploaded as "own work". They all have been deleted from commons (where your account is currently blocked). Is there anything more to discuss here at the moment? Abecedare (talk) 22:21, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Again your talking unnecessary things here.that is wikipedia commons.your only saying i am blocked there.do you thing blocked user can discuss about his own work in wiki commons until the block period get to finish.is it possible?if you know then let me know.thank you.Eshwar.om 00:42, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Recent additions

Some notes on material that was recently added to the article:

Adi Vinayaka: This iconographic representation may be worth noting in the article, but doesn't need a section of its own (or details, unrelated to Ganesha, such as "According to 7th century Saiva Nayanmar saint Campantar,the Nandrudayan Vinayaka Temple is one of the oldest Hindu temples in Tiruchirappalli city,Tamilnadu He also sung the songs for this temple. For the past 83 years annual music festival conducted here"). Also needs better sourcing both for verification and for deciding on due weight. I have condensed and copy-edited the material, and tagged it with with {{Better source}}. We need to research scholarly literature on the subject to provide beter context and determine whether this information is important enough to retain, or is just trivia.
Vinayagar Agaval: This is poorly source, and undue given the number of hymns composed praising Ganesha. At a minimum, we would need secondary scholarly sources attesting to the hymn's importance to Ganesha worship (not the other way around, since notability is not a symmetric relation), in order to include this in the article.
Tirumandhiram: This and this are even more clearly undue, given that the text is primarily dedicated to Shiva and only contains an opening invocation to Ganesha (the wikipedia article already notes the fact the Ganesha, as the lord of beginnings, is commonly propitiated at the start of ventures and Tirumandhiram is just one example amongst thousands of this). Also note that the cited sources are irrelevant/being misrepresented/unreliable in that the two that two of them discuss Tirumandhiram w/o mentioning Ganesha (not surprising given the focus of the text); while the third, which is a non-scholarly English translation of Tirumandhiram by an "Internationally known Indian economist and planner" and published by sectarian, religious publisher, is a primary and unreliable source that doesn't even contain the Tamil text added to the article.

It would really help if User:Eshwar.om would discuss (substantial) future additions to the article on the talkpage, since his edits are getting tendentious and disruptive. Abecedare (talk) 16:22, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Anything added from Tamil Nadu or Southern India side then your saying undue,tendentious and disruptive.Have u read fully about undue,tendentious and disruptive.Let me know?!Eshwar.om 19:45, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

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