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:::::Roughly half of world doesn't recognise the independence of Kosovo and still regards it as Serbian province under UN/interim administration, so in order to archive neutrality over this issue, we must either present both sides, or be careful and only present the undisputed facts. If the countries are European, I see no connection to it, I honestly didn't understand that argument. ] (]) 02:05, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
:::::Roughly half of world doesn't recognise the independence of Kosovo and still regards it as Serbian province under UN/interim administration, so in order to archive neutrality over this issue, we must either present both sides, or be careful and only present the undisputed facts. If the countries are European, I see no connection to it, I honestly didn't understand that argument. ] (]) 02:05, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::A lot of reliable sources say also that Kosovo '''is not''' a country in Europe. You cannot just ignore some sources that you dont like. Kosovo is disputed, its not even a UN member, and it must be treated like that. You must be neutral here, everyone. --'''<font face="Perpetua" size="3">] (])</font>''' 11:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
::::::A lot of reliable sources say also that Kosovo '''is not''' a country in Europe. You cannot just ignore some sources that you dont like. Kosovo is disputed, its not even a UN member, and it must be treated like that. You must be neutral here, everyone. --'''<font face="Perpetua" size="3">] (])</font>''' 11:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
To everybody, there are numerous as yet unmentioned problems with the category for ''countries in Europe''. I will address those specified in the summaries.
*One states in its first part: ''Regardless if a country is partially recognised or not, it is still a country''. This is in tune to arguments posted above stating that Kosovo meets all the criteria to be sovereign regardless who does not recognise. I confess that to these points I cannot comment, however, if that is correct then the category should also include ], ], the ], and if you define them as Europe, ] and ].
*Then the same summary mentions: '' for example Cyprus or Armenia which both lack recognition''. I am sorry but there is absolutely no way in this world Kosovo can be considered similar to Cyprus or Armenia. I would question any editor's ] if he cannot distinguish between states that do not have diplomatic relations with others, and states whose sovereignty is disputed. No country refuses to recognise Armenia or Cyprus as a result of either being a breakaway from the state in question, they are merely examples of states involved in internal territorial disputes. If an entity exists with which we can realistically compare the Republic of Kosovo then this would be the ] (which lacks a "countries in" listing). Kosovo has fewer diplomatic recognitions than the ] which stands at 135, yet this too has no "countries in" listing, and therefore has no special status over any other unrecognised territory.
*Another summary is: ''can't we just follow the sources? http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/kosovo/overview''. The World Bank is an institution that happens to recognise the Republic of Kosovo. It is not a paragon of irrefutable reference to what makes a country or not. Besides, the job of an editor is to identify neutral positions in disputes, and having any disputed territory in a "countries in" category violates ]. Its absence is by no means an indication that it is recognised as being within the state to claim it. For what it is worth, the State of Palestine is eligible to become a member of the World Bank. Also, when the original editor added the category, he was not going by that source, so it is not a case of following the World Bank website.
*Kosovo is already listed in ]. I have checked several left-hand side entries and no other state has a "countries in" category and this includes ] which is the article for Republic of China, itself having once stood on the UN Security Council. So unless I have missed something, I see no special reason Kosovo outranks the states listed in this post. --] (]) 16:11, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Revision as of 16:11, 23 May 2015
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The opening paragraph to the article was decided upon, by consensus, following lengthy discussions. It is based on reliable sources, providing a neutral point of view. The first sentence, in particular, must call Kosovo a "country", reflecting the consensus found in the RfC held in the spring of 2023.
Kosovo is part of WikiProject Kosovo, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Kosovo on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Misplaced Pages visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.KosovoWikipedia:WikiProject KosovoTemplate:WikiProject KosovoKosovo
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Serbia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SerbiaWikipedia:WikiProject SerbiaTemplate:WikiProject SerbiaSerbia
Kosovo is part of the WikiProject Albania, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Albania on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Misplaced Pages visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.AlbaniaWikipedia:WikiProject AlbaniaTemplate:WikiProject AlbaniaAlbania
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Unrecognized countries, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Unrecognized countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Unrecognized countriesTemplate:WikiProject Unrecognized countriesUnrecognized countries
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Eastern Europe, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Eastern EuropeWikipedia:WikiProject Eastern EuropeTemplate:WikiProject Eastern EuropeEastern Europe
The contents of the Republic of Kosovo page were merged into Kosovo on 23 May 2014. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.
According to CIA Factbook, Population
Ethnic groups: Albanians 92%, other (Serb, Bosniak, Gorani, Roma, Turk, Ashkali, Egyptian) 8% (2008) --12:45, 27 November 2011
And bullet 2: "2. Turkish, Bosnian and Roma languages have the status of official languages at the municipal level or will be in official use at all levels as provided by law. " Stevetauber (talk) 22:32, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Every document in Kosovo is written all three languages. ID card, Passport, bills etc. Road names, company info is written in all 3 languages, warning signs etc. You can register your company in all three forms Sh.p.k , OLK, LLC etc. all goverment sites are written in three languages etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Memedhe (talk • contribs) 22:19, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
The officialdom of language lies within a constitution or statute. In light of the fact that there is no permanent significant English speaking population in Kosovo there is little chance of it being named, just as it has no local population to serve. From having lived in Greece for 22 years of my life, I recall 99% of road signs and documents being published in Greek and English (including my driving licence since that is where I passed back in 1987) but this is more for international-friendly circumstmaces (Greek on top in yellow, then English in white to avoid all confusion), just as the pilot on the plane speaks in English when telling the cabin crew to take their seats for landing, even if the operator is Montenegro Airlines. In Europe you'll find English is only official in Malta. --Vrhunski (talk) 19:20, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
British Passports are also in French as well as English, it doesn't mean that French is an official language of the UK. English is used in Kosovo at International level and Business level because the English language is an international and business language, not because it is an official language of Kosovo. IJA (talk) 23:08, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2015
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Author-editor recommends addition to sources of internationally recognized balanced work with translated essays from all sides.
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} 03:03, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Redundant note
Somebody just tried to add that boilerplate Kosovo-note to the article. People, I'm sure we've discussed this before, that template is obviously only for other articles that deal with Kosovo in passing, not this main article. Everything that note does is already said right at the top of the article lead. Besides, it wasn't even used properly; there was no "status" text anchor that linked to it, so it was technically quite useless too. Fut.Perf.☼20:09, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Agreed; it's redundant. However, there are still a few redundant transclusions of that template on other pages, which have been left behind since its biggest fan stopped editing. bobrayner (talk) 21:58, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Kudos
I was doing some research for my job, which included learning more about the history of Kosovo from the breakup of Yugoslavia to present. I found this article to be quite well-written and informative. I just wanted to congratulate those you who have worked hard on the article, including resolving disputes, and to tell you that your sustained efforts are appreciated. Good job! -- Mark D Worthen PsyD21:06, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Categorisation
Reliable sources (example) say that Kosovo is a country in Europe. We shouldn't even need to worry about sourcing for such an obvious statement. Why, then, do some editors insist on removing Category:Countries in Europe? Eventually, articles on Kosovo will be brought in line with what reliable sources say, but FkpCascais' reverts make this a very slow and difficult process. bobrayner (talk) 18:40, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
It seems like some people feel that being diplomatically recognised by every other country in the world is a prerequisite for being defined as a country, but it's not so. If it was neither the People's Republic of China, the Republic of China (Taiwan) or Israel would be countries. Kosovo is a sovereign state by all normal definitions of it, and thus a country, whether some people like it or not. So I strongly suggest FkpCascais, now blocked user Muffi and everyone else who is removing the category and all mention of Kosovo being a country stop their reverts. Thomas.W20:47, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Saying current Kosovo is sovereign is challenging per se (is there a consensus from the past to include the link sovereign state in the lead of this article that I missed?). Also, comparing Kosovo, which is considered independent roughly just by half countries of the world, and still territory of Serbia by other half, is far from being comparable to the mentioned cases of Israel, PR China or Taiwan. FkpCascais (talk) 21:06, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
And WP:NPOV starts by saying "All encyclopedic content on Misplaced Pages must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.". I personally don't give a rat's arse about whether the country-category or other mention of Kosovo having the status as a country is in the article or not, but reliable sources regard Kosovo as a country, which is what matters. So since many reliable sources regard Kosovo as a country, and a large number of countries, particularly in Europe where Kosovo is situated, have recognised Kosovo as a sovereign country, you and the others cannot remove all mention of it, without violating WP:NPOV. Period. Thomas.W22:04, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't give an arse about European countries neither your "period", understand sir? So while you don't show a willingness to fairly archive consensus, the clearly tendentious category will be removed. Period. FkpCascais (talk) 01:36, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Roughly half of world doesn't recognise the independence of Kosovo and still regards it as Serbian province under UN/interim administration, so in order to archive neutrality over this issue, we must either present both sides, or be careful and only present the undisputed facts. If the countries are European, I see no connection to it, I honestly didn't understand that argument. FkpCascais (talk) 02:05, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
A lot of reliable sources say also that Kosovo is not a country in Europe. You cannot just ignore some sources that you dont like. Kosovo is disputed, its not even a UN member, and it must be treated like that. You must be neutral here, everyone. --Ąnαșταη (ταlκ)11:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
To everybody, there are numerous as yet unmentioned problems with the category for countries in Europe. I will address those specified in the summaries.
One states in its first part: Regardless if a country is partially recognised or not, it is still a country. This is in tune to arguments posted above stating that Kosovo meets all the criteria to be sovereign regardless who does not recognise. I confess that to these points I cannot comment, however, if that is correct then the category should also include Lugansk People's Republic, Donetsk People's Republic, the Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic, and if you define them as Europe, South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Then the same summary mentions: for example Cyprus or Armenia which both lack recognition. I am sorry but there is absolutely no way in this world Kosovo can be considered similar to Cyprus or Armenia. I would question any editor's Misplaced Pages:COMPETENCE if he cannot distinguish between states that do not have diplomatic relations with others, and states whose sovereignty is disputed. No country refuses to recognise Armenia or Cyprus as a result of either being a breakaway from the state in question, they are merely examples of states involved in internal territorial disputes. If an entity exists with which we can realistically compare the Republic of Kosovo then this would be the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic (which lacks a "countries in" listing). Kosovo has fewer diplomatic recognitions than the State of Palestine which stands at 135, yet this too has no "countries in" listing, and therefore has no special status over any other unrecognised territory.
Another summary is: can't we just follow the sources? http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/kosovo/overview. The World Bank is an institution that happens to recognise the Republic of Kosovo. It is not a paragon of irrefutable reference to what makes a country or not. Besides, the job of an editor is to identify neutral positions in disputes, and having any disputed territory in a "countries in" category violates WP:NPOV. Its absence is by no means an indication that it is recognised as being within the state to claim it. For what it is worth, the State of Palestine is eligible to become a member of the World Bank. Also, when the original editor added the category, he was not going by that source, so it is not a case of following the World Bank website.
Kosovo is already listed in List of territorial disputes. I have checked several left-hand side entries and no other state has a "countries in" category and this includes Taiwan which is the article for Republic of China, itself having once stood on the UN Security Council. So unless I have missed something, I see no special reason Kosovo outranks the states listed in this post. --Oranges Juicy (talk) 16:11, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —