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Guidance needed

Hi Dennis,

Where you see a content dispute (based on the diffs presented to you at ANI), I see a lot more diffs that have not yet been thoroughly organized and which I believe show a serious behavior breach of WP:ARBCC#Principles. My only interest is prevention, not punishment. In the event that I believe the alleged problems with this editor continue, I will likely spend considerable time organizing an AE complaint. The reason I'm writing you about this is to express my concern for what would probably become a claim of forum-shopping.

Obviously any future diffs would be eligible for inclusion in such an AE filing by me. But what about diffs prior to the current ANI? There are two subsets there - (A) those brought to attention in the ANI thread and (B) those that were not included in the ANI thread. If I organize a careful AE complaint under the climate case decision, and include any diff from any venue and time that I think shows the problem, would you personally believe that I was doing that in order to forum shop? As you consider your reply, rest assured, I have no current plan to file such an AE, and would only do so if new diffs added to the ones I already know about persuade me that sanctions are necessary to prevent future disruption.

Thanks for your input on this procecural question. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 17:44, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

• In my opinion, if you do a future filing that uses diffs prior to today in part, there isn't any issue. Often at ANI, the goal is just to get the cause of the problems to promise to stop creating problems. That part was accomplished, and in the least aggressive way. He admits the consensus is against him, which is significant. The fact is, he filed the report, he "saw the light" (or at least a twinkle) and asked to stop the process. He wasn't technically under examination and wasn't "acquitted" of any wrong doing. It is essentially a punt where I hoped it could just go back to the talk page because looking at that one issue in isolation, I didn't see a reason to block anyone today. That doesn't make it a formal ruling. Hopefully, you will wait a week or two and see if he lives up to his words, and if not, filing would be pretty reasonable. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:24, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 21:02, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

<gasp> thank god for that block. Although I did have a good laugh over edit warring closure of a sanctions discussion about one's self. Thanks for your thoughtful attention and dutiful followup. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 10:56, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Now that a block has been instigated, to reduce risk of additional chaos at ANI perhaps by a newcomer to the thread may I suggest adding the appropriate administrator-only closed templates to the subthread I started? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 11:44, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

It appears Euryalus closed the whole thing. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 12:57, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 13:02, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back

I just noticed you were back. Hope all is well, or as well as possible!--Wehwalt (talk) 20:35, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

• Better, still on the heal, it takes years. I think helping out here will do me some good, although I will still be hit and miss for a while. Moving back to a house I was trying to sell but just isn't selling. Lake front, which is kind of nice, so I guess I will keep my boat and catch up on some fishing. Thanks for the welcome back. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:38, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Dear Dennis, I know we have communicated recently, but I want you to know how very much your help and advice has, and will be again, appreciated over the years. Always here to support you. As ever, David, David J Johnson (talk) 20:45, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

I can't wear your head, so I don't know. All I can do is wish you the best, and healing.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:07, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

RFA question

Be my guest and remove mine, yours is better :P Kharkiv07 (T) 17:46, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

• No, that is fine, I will perhaps save a slot for a follow up. Quite obviously, that is a question worth asking due to his prior statement. This may take a few questions to clear up. Feel free to plagiarizer mine. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 17:47, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

ANI follow-up

I noticed you dealing with this yesterday on ANI and watchlisted the page in question as a result. Sadly, based on this, it seems that Akhil222 didn't get the message. I suspect there are language competency issues at work here, but the user needs to stop AFDing pages as "some reason." Valenciano (talk) 18:16, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

• Fixed. Thanks for the heads up. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 18:23, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Nothing urgent. BMK (talk) 21:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

• BMK, nothing received. I tested it myself and it works, but your's never arrived. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 22:30, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Caste system

I noticed your helpful comments at WP:ANI#Improper use of template:disputed at Caste system in India and at a user's talk, so am alerting you to what I regard as some trolling at ANI that I have removed (diff hmmm, perhaps I shouldn't have left my comment at ANI because it calls out for a response from those involved, and no comment might have been better). That was in an earlier section at ANI involving similar participants. An IP took the opportunity to attack an editor with some "clever" poking. If you have some time, please review my removal of that and either restore the text if you want (very unlikely!), or watch to see if I am reverted. Something needs to be done to stop harping on about "racism"—an accusation like that, as you know, should be aired once at ANI if wanted, then dropped. No problem if you don't feel like taking this on per your edit notice! Johnuniq (talk) 04:25, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

• I saw the deletion. I tend to overlook more than most, so I'm probably not the best guy for a threshold test. At ANI, I just shoot for settling things as best as possible and getting everyone OFF of ANI and back to articles. There is so much crap being thrown around, I probably would have overlooked a single trolling. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 01:11, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Hey

I'm so glad you're back. Drmies (talk) 04:32, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks Mies. I'm still going to be hit and miss, but I'm going to try to be a regular fixture as best I can. I'm in the middle of moving back to the lake house, need to get a renter or two, move on with life. I've been living in the hood (that is what they call it) for 6 months now, among crack dealers, heroin dealers, bootleggers and worse. I was the only white person in a complex of 100 units. I really didn't have to move here, but it made sense to for a short while and I took advantage of it by getting to know the people and the sub-culture. Being white, articulate, middle aged and having an assertive personality, most of the residents assumed I was an undercover cop. I told them I was a light bulb salesman, which might sound like a bad cover but technically, that is what I do. I need to write about the experience. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:08, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
  • These are trying times in America, especially for many whites in the South, since it's we ("us"?) who have to improve. Good luck with everything, Dennis, and even your light duty is much appreciated. Drmies (talk) 18:42, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Caste system in India

This is in reference to the article Caste System in India.In the talk page of the article i have made mention of the views of Harvard's Michael Witzel in connection with the Indian caste system. Would it be considered canvassing if i were to send an email to Dr Witzel to take a look at this article and then to consider giving his views (along with the references) on the caste system in general and on this particular wikipedia article in particular? If he agrees, but decides not to participate in the talk page of the article, i think the best thing might be for him to present his views in the form of an article on his home page or else for him to express his views in an email in a publicly viewable mailing list. (Full Disclosure: I have communicated with Dr Witzel in the past.)I know everyone is equal in wikipedia, but i think it might be fruitful to have Witzel's views on this wikipedia article--together with any references Witzel gives--to be placed in the talk page of the article. Also, if Witzel considers some of the references being given in the article (particularly in the lead) to be of a dubious nature--for instance, if Witzel says that the lead in the article is containing material that is substantially similar to the material that was debated upon and rejected in the California textbooks case-- then it might be fruitful to know about this in the talk page. Please advice. Soham321 (talk) 20:06, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

• My gut says that this isn't a good idea. It would probably look like canvassing to some people, but when you start bringing in "experts", you can easily cause problems. Experts in a field are seldom familiar with our policies, for starters, and they tend to have singular views and methods that aren't always conducive to Misplaced Pages's methods. Feelings tend to get hurt. At this stage, you might serve yourself and other better to get more eyes on it. Misplaced Pages talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics is just one place to try. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:58, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

All right.Thanks for the link. Soham321 (talk) 23:46, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Dennis, I have been informed by Soham321 here that this non-neutral message seeking support for his position was made on your suggestion. I had warned the user to revert and post something neutral, but have been told that it was made on your advice. Could you take a look please? —SpacemanSpiff 00:41, 22 June 2015 (UTC)