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If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction. Discussions should be civil, calm, concise, neutral, objective and as nice as possible.

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• This is not a court with judges or arbitrators that issue binding decisions: we focus on resolving disputes through consensus, compromise, and advice about policy.
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We are always looking for new volunteers and everyone is welcome. Click the volunteer button above to join us, and read over the volunteer guide to learn how to get started. Being a volunteer on this page is not formal in any respect, and it is not necessary to have any previous dispute resolution experience. However, having a calm and patient demeanor and a good knowledge of Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines is very important. It's not mandatory to list yourself as a volunteer to help here, anyone is welcome to provide input.

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:MLS Soccer Sunday#July 2015: This article needs additional citations for verification. (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Mikeylito (talk · contribs)
• Walter Görlitz (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

There is a disagreement about the use of date formats in the article.

I'm also not happy with the tone of the talk page discussion. I feel it was less than civil.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Once I was clear on what required cleanup, I went and resolved the issues with one exception which I addressed on the talk page. However, with explanation, I did revert the dates to dmy format as I originally posted the article.

How do you think we can help?

I am seeking additional opinions on what took place on this incident. I'm particularly disturbed because rather than explaining my original question on the talk page, the other editor just made wholesale changes without continuing the talk page discussion.

Summary of dispute by Walter Görlitz

The subjects, both the league and networks, are American and so should use MDY per WP:STRONGNAT. That's the format I applied: mdy. WP:DATERET takes a back seat to STRONGNAT as is seen from the second sentence of DATERET.

As for civility, my tagging of the whole article was questioned so I removed the general tag and tagged specific sentences. I was then questioned as to why I changed date format and a lengthy response was made, which showed what I believed to be a misunderstanding of the MoS. I simply responded that STRONGNAT applied, as it does. No insulting. No edit warring. No incivility.

I made no wholesale changes and I did continue talk page discussion. I made three explained changes:

1. per WP:INFOBOXFLAG, WP:OVERLINK and WP:REPEATLINK
2. General formatting by script which is essentially MOS:TIME and WP:DATERANGE
3. Added {{refimprove}} tag to article (TW)

Only after these changes were made did discussion start on talk page. I then changed the general tag to specific ones as described above, and realizing that the date format was wrong for the subject, applied the correct date format. I read the lecture incorrectly asserting DATERET and replied, then MDY again . I'd be happy to see revert whatever wholesale changes I made without discussing after I see what they are.

I don't understand any of the complaints. I would suggest complainant read WP:OWN. Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:41, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Talk:MLS Soccer Sunday#July 2015: This article needs additional citations for verification. discussion

• The Manual of Style is pretty clear on which date format to use. "Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the date format most commonly used in that nation. For the United States this is, for example, July 4, 1976; for most other nations it is, for example, 4 July 1976." As MLS is an American league, the MoS is pretty clear to use 'month day, year' here. Scorch (talk | ctrb) 06:27, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

• @Mikeylito: Firstly, this noticeboard cannot discuss the conduct of another user. It is possible that user:Walter Görlitz was incivil during the talk page discussion, but we cannot address conduct here. We will only address the content dispute. A good place to go for incivility during a discussion is ANI. Now, for a chance to reiterate here and explain a bit further, why do you feel that dmy should appply over mdy? Scorch (talk | ctrb) 20:14, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

•  Note to participants: I'm going to go ahead and place this case on hold until Mikeylito returns. He hasn't edited in some days. Regards, Scorch (talk | ctrb) 03:26, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

48 hr closing notice

• I'm going to close this dispute in 48hrs if Mikeylito does not respond. Regards, Scorch (talk | ctrb) 11:16, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Royce Gracie#Royce Gracie BJJ matches (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• SubSeven (talk · contribs)
• CrazyAces489 (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The (BLP) article in question is Royce Gracie, a former mixed martial arts athlete. The other party in the dispute, CrazyAces489, has been trying to introduce a large number of edits to this article over a long period of time. All of these edits. without exception, are in some way discrediting to Royce Gracie. I have opposed all of these edits as I find them to be unsourced or very poorly sourced.

Some of the edits are rather straightforward content disputes while others will be more esoteric to an outsider as they involve additions to fight records. The Wikiproject WP:MMA has established a very clear consensus on the source to use for MMA fighters' records and I am only arguing to adhere to that source.

CrazyAces489 is also trying to add a table for a 'BJJ record' (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu) to the article, which is not at all customary in MMA fighters' articles, and my stance is that his sources are far too weak to place in such an authoritative context -- i.e. a fight record table. This issue has been discussed ad nauseam on the talk page.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Many discussions on article talk page and user talk pages

How do you think we can help?

Weigh in on whether CrazyAces489's contributions to the article represent a proper application of WP:RS, WP:BLP, WP:NOR, and WP:NPOV

Summary of dispute by CrazyAces489

Talk:Royce Gracie#Royce Gracie_BJJ_matches discussion

• Question: @SubSeven: "The Wikiproject WP:MMA has established a very clear consensus on the source to use for MMA fighters' records" Could you please link to where this consensus was formed? I believe it would be helpful for the moderator taking this case. I am neither taking nor declining this case at this moment. Regards, Scorch (talk | ctrb) 02:23, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
•  Note to participants: CrazyAces489 is semi-retired and hasn't edited since July 9. Regards, Scorch (talk | ctrb) 19:01, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Zindagi (TV channel)#Moving forward (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)
• List of programs broadcast by Zee Zindagi (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (discussion at Zindagi talk page)

Users involved

• Manoflogan (talk · contribs)
• TheRedPenOfDoom (talk · contribs)
• Divy(a)95 (talk · contribs)
• Rockcommer (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The article in question List of programs broadcast by Zee Zindagi. The other party TheRedPenOfDoom has been trying to remove all the edits because he feels that any wiki page of networks that does not broadcast any original content should not exist. This is inspite of the fact that wikipages of networks that broadcast syndicated content are allowed to exist. The examples of that are AXN_(India)#Programs_aired_on_AXN_India ,] and List_of_programs_broadcast_by_TV_Land

"TheRedPenOfDoom" thinks that they violate WP:Coatrack. In discussion WP:Articles_for_deletion/Lists_of_programs_broadcast_by_networks, nowhere does it mention that a wiki page containing a list of syndicated shows should not exist.

For your reference, I also include his revisions https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=List_of_programs_broadcast_by_Zee_Zindagi&oldid=673316739. I request you to weigh in as to whether his constant vandalism is justified. I would also like to point out that "TheRedPenOfDoom" has been engaging in a constant edit war on numerous pages. See User_talk:TheRedPenOfDoom talk page for more details about this. I would also like to point out that he has indulged in similar behaviour in the past on far more controversial topics WP:Talk:Gamergate_controversy&diff=639886639&oldid=639885634 and so an action like this is not new for him.

Edit: Zee Zindagi is notable because it chose to broadcast programs from Pakistan. India–Pakistan_relations have been fraught with tension, wars and disputes from the time of its existence. Indian channels and content are officially banned in Pakistan and vice versa. See Indian_soap_operas_in_Pakistan and http://www.firstpost.com/india/stop-broadcast-banned-pakistani-channels-india-delhi-hc-centre-1789341.html from Pakistani and Indian perspective respectively. Zee Zindagi is the first Indian network to broadcast content produced in Pakistan to Indian audiences. That makes it notable in itself. I agree that it is a network owned by Zee Enterprises. But that does not mean that the wiki pages or wiki pages listing programming content should not exist. This is evident in the fact NBC_Sports is a wing of NBCUniversal_Television_Group. The wiki pages of each of wing of the NBCUniversal_Television_Group is allowed to exist. Many channels that broadcast syndicated content have a wiki page with a list of programs List_of_programs_broadcast_by_USA_Network#Syndicated. I have no intention for the Wiki Page to violate television guide. If "TRPOD" objects to any entries violating the rule, he can delete the entry with an appropriate comment, but it does not make sense to delete the entire wiki. Given that the other wiki pages listed above are allowed to exist, lists displayed in List_of_programs_broadcast_by_Zee_Zindagi should be allowed to exist as well. From the edit logs, it appears that only "TRPOD" seems to object, and no one else. He keeps continuing to edit the pages on the grounds of notability. He is the only wiki person, who thinks that the entries ought to be deleted because they are not "notable". Other users such as "CyphoidBomb" have updated the page. The user's only comment was all the entries should be referenced. I have no objective to that. I only object to the fact that "TRPOD" should have not have the authority to determine what entries are notable. All the entries have been listed with proper references. I have done that.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Based on his requests, I have included numerous references in my latest edits https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=List_of_programs_broadcast_by_Zee_Zindagi&oldid=673123283. I was going to add more references until he deleted all the content on the page and added a redirect to another page. I offered alternate options in the talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Zindagi_%28TV_channel%29#Moving_forward, but he would not consider any other suggestion.

How do you think we can help?

I would like you to weigh in as to whether List_of_programs_broadcast_by_Zee_Zindagi wiki page content should be allowed to display a list of programs broadcast by the channel. I believe that it does not violate any rules or standards, given the evidence that other wiki pages are allowed to stand. Manoflogan (talk) 22:01, 28 July 2015 (UTC)ManOfLogan

Summary of dispute by TheRedPenOfDoom

I have added Divy(a)95 (talk · contribs) and Rockcommer (talk · contribs). I am not interested in participating in a discussion to settle applications of policy and scope with one editor only to have it undone by others.

As stated on the talk page, Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia and provides encyclopedic information as validated by reliable third party sources. Much of the content being pushed into the articles fails basic Misplaced Pages content policy inappropriately being a WP:COATRACK about programs from which the supposed subject of the article has had no impact other than rebroadcasting, and in general turning Misplaced Pages into a free webhost and television guide for Zindagi , which itself has not really established that it is notable on its own, rather than being a wing of its parent company. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:51, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Divy(a)95

Summary of dispute by Rockcommer

Talk:Zindagi (TV channel)#Moving_forward discussion

Volunteer's Note: Welcome to the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. I'm neither "taking" nor opening this discussion at this time as we are waiting to see if TRPoD will choose to participate by adding a dispute summary above (and I would remind the parties that participation in moderated content dispute resolution is always voluntary, not mandatory). I note, however, that notice and discussion appear to be adequate. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:08, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

I've notified the two additional parties. — TransporterMan (TALK) 14:18, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

• 24 hour closing notice. @Manoflogan, TheRedPenOfDoom, Divy(a)95, and Rockcommer: This thread will be closed in 24 hours unless Divy(a)95 and Rockcommer indicate they have an interest in participating. A party has indicated that these users' participation in the discussion is essential to building legitimate consensus, and I agree given the circumstances of the case. If the discussion is closed and more parties are interested in reopening it at a later date, this is certainly permissible. North of Eden (talk) 22:43, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Spiro Koleka (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Burridheut (talk · contribs)
• Zoupan (talk · contribs)
• Alexikoua (talk · contribs)
• Resnjari (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The dispute is about these points:

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

1. They write that "Himara is a predominantly Greek region" This is incorrect, I gave official links to the National Census disproving it. Less than 25% are Greek. BUT, besides being incorrect, this is totally irrelevant and unrelated to the article. This article is neither about Himara nor Greece. It is about a man that was borth in neither of these two places. Therefore the two above-mentioned users were asked to remove this text as irrelevant, but they did not, they only used "Undo" after I did following their failure to provide historic backup for the contested references that they use. (Too easy to click "Undo" for them it seams)

2.They claim (from 4 books authored by the same person - Mr. Petiffer, a so-called expert on Balkan matters.) that Spiro Koleka was born in a ethnic Greek family. But this is entirely incorrect! His gravestone is written in Albanian letters and word-forming (not Greek), in addition there is a page on a peer-reviewed scientific encyclopedia (The Encyclopedic Dictionary of Albania, 1985, http://imgur.com/f7kLRxs) that explains that Spiro was born in a patriotic (meaning native) family. Also two more newspapers articles corroborate the same story. One written by a childhood friend and long time colleague (http://imgur.com/mAN9iW1 and http://imgur.com/gz1Srfm) and one written by the leaders of the political party he was a member of. They knew him better than someone that does not even care about minute details like this (Mr. petiffer). He also does not have any references in his books on the source of information about Spiro Koleka. I also challenged the two users mentioned above to go to the village of Vuno facebook group and ask the members (1300+, many are elderly people) there of the ethnicity of Spiro Koleka. This is not scientific, but if they really want to know the truth and don't believe that I am a family member (as if I collect marriage certificates from dead people born 107 years ago...)

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

I have provided links to official sources (government websites), I have made pictures of Spiro Koleka's gravestone, I have provided scans of scientific publications (Encyclopedic material), I have scanned and posted Spiro Koleka's marriage certificate, scanned old newspaper articles from different sources and have discussed in great length providing knowledge and reason on the subject matter.

How do you think we can help?

Remove any text that is inaccurate. Do not consider material that has no official/historic references. This is a biography, the simple historical facts (birthday, birthplace, fathers name, ethnicity) about a man are not up for negotiation. They are what they are. If after studying the evidences provided, the dispute resolution board is unable to decide, then the texts that are controversial should be removed. These are easy to spot as it has the word "Greek" in it.

Summary of dispute by Zoupan

Burridheut (talk · contribs) thinks he WP:OWNS the article. He is anti-Greek, downplaying the community in Albania, and most often uses terms such as "separatist propaganda". He claims four different references were written by one person, but has not proven this, or most importantly — refuted what they say. He thinks that the dubious 2011 census and the grave stone's lettering are WP:RS for WP:SYNTH.--Zoupan 13:13, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Alexikoua

Summary of dispute by Resnjari

The issue is roughly this. Spiro Koleka was a politician who held various high ranking positions within Enver Hoxha’s communist regime. Within the article it is stated that Spiro Koleka was of Greek origin. The sources used such as James Pettifer and others (which also cite Pettifer as a source origin) base this upon Koleka having been born in Himara (town) and due to the ethnicity of that town being Greek have drawn the conclusion that Koleka was Greek. Also the collection of villages (Orthodox Greek and Orthodox Albanian) in this small coastal region also colloquially bear the name of Himara due to Himara town being the biggest settlement (However in Albanian the region is known amongst Albanian speakers as Bregdet or the Coast by the Sea). Koleka was however born in Vuno village. This village in peer reviewed material is identified as being an Albanian Orthodox village or inhabited by Albanian Orthodox speakers (Nitsiakos and Kallivretakis, sources provided in Spiro Koleka talk page). And it is here where the dilemma lies. The main bone of contention, for editor Burridheut for example is that apart from originating from Vuno and having Koleka a relative, he feels that the sources have misinterpreted or simply just gotten the issue wrong regarding Koleka’s ethnicity. For Greek editors such as Alexikoua and Zoupan, the matter is that as Pettifer has published this material in peer reviewed works and as such those works referencing Koleka’s Greek identity should remain. They have said to Burridheut to provide peer reviewed sources that can be additionally added to say that other sources also state he is Albanian.

Burridheut has not provided sources that would pass Misplaced Pages guidelines for determining a good source (e.g. a page about Koleka from an Albanian encyclopedia published during the Communist era. Communist era publications need to be treated with caution and one a one by one basis according to author and also due to regime interference at times in scholarship). I have said to Burridheut to get Albanian sources (post 1992) that can be additionally added and hence the Albanian position can be represented and it goes for other Albanian editors (If time is needed then fine and the issue can be revisited later only with those sources provided however). Burridheut though does not want any reference to Greek origins to remain in the article, however no peer reviewed literature has been provided at this point in time to correct the error and call Pettifer into question. Nor has Pettifer retracted in any of his works this statement about Koleka (and probably wont as it might call into question his scholarship). However from my part, the Greek origin material can remain as it is from a peer reviewed source and is thus in accordance with Misplaced Pages guidelines. My issue with the article is this part of the sentence. "Himara, a predominantly Greek region" because it comes after the Vuno and implies that Vuno is inhabited by Greeks (when peer reviewed literature does not say this) especially when some of the sources have mixed Himara town with Himara region regarding Koleka's birthplace which was Vuno. If it stays however, the additional "Orthodox Albanian village (Kaliivretakis +Nitisiakos)" for Vuno needs to be added so neutrality is maintained considering that the sources are problematic regarding even Koleka’s birthplace. Beyond that things are fine as they are in line with Misplaced Pages guidelines.Resnjari (talk) 03:39, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Spiro Koleka discussion

• Volunteer note - I am neither accepting nor declining this case at this time. There has been extended discussion on the article talk page. I have added an editor to the list of parties and have notified the non-filing editors. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:01, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
• Volunteer note - I will be checking on the status of this case at least every 24 hours. I expect every other editor to check on its status at least every 48 hours.

Beginning of discussion

I am accepting this case for moderated discussion. I don't know anything about the subject matter other than the article is the biography of a former Albanian communist politician. There appear to be questions about what to say was the ethnicity of the politician and what to say was the ethnicity of the region of Albania that he resided in. Are there any other questions? Would each of the editors please state briefly what he or she thinks is the issue? Be civil and concise. Comment on content, not on contributors. Do not reply to each other at this time. Address your summary to me as the moderator. Once we have better identified what the issues are, perhaps we can talk about improving the article. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:32, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

There appear to be two statements that are being challenged. The first is that he was born in a predominantly Greek region. The second is that his family was ethnically Greek. Both statements are sourced. If editors disagree, I have two suggestions. First, provide an alternate source that states otherwise, in which case maybe the statement can be removed. Second, if the sources are questioned, the issue of their reliability can be raised at the reliable sources noticeboard (and discussion here can be suspended while the sources are being checked). Any further comments that refer to an editor will be collapsed or hatted as content on contributors. Please be civil and concise. Comment in this section, not above. Do not reply to each other (at least not at this time). Robert McClenon (talk) 14:38, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Please reply to the above questions. There are statements that the politician was born in a predominantly Greek region, and that his family was ethnically Greek. These statements are sourced. If other editors have different sources that disagree, we can state that there is a controversy, or we can take issues about the reliability of sources to RSN. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:55, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Robert. Thank you for volunteering. There are three disputes, kindly see below.

1. Unfounded/undocumented Greek ethnicity of Spiro Koleka. There are no records to prove this, not a single evidence. This is pure speculation. Spiro was considered a patriot among Albanians, meaning a person notable for their deeds to their fatherland. You cannot call an ethnic Greek as an Albanian patriot, or an ethnic Albanian as a Greek patriot. You are a patriot when you serve your country, not your neighbors country. I have posted three scanned publications from different sources that talk about Spiro, ref. talkpage please.

2. Inclusion of the text "near Himara, a predominantly Greek region,"; This text is not relevant at all. It is like adding to this "part of Europe, an island in the pacific". This is provocative and not a constructive edit.

The footnote links to a report that states: "The coastal Himara region of Southern Albania has always had a predominantly ethnic Greek population." If this is irrelevant, or, as you imply, absurd, please indicate how it is irrelevant or absurd. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:56, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

It is irrelevant because Spiro was not born in Himara and he never lived there, so it is a comment out of place. It is also provocative because the word "predominant" means more than 50%, but the Greek presence in the Himara city has never passed the 25%. Here included the people that are 1/2, 1/4 or 1/8 Greek. Burridheut (talk) 16:03, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

3. This third dispute is not relevant for this article IF the text from dispute#2 is removed. Otherwise it is about the expression "predominantly Greek". Predominantly means in "for the most part" (see merriam-webster dictionary). Now, I want to see one single piece of evidence that Himara has over 50% Greek population. No such record is ever given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Burridheut (talk • contribs) 20:46, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

So far no decent arguments have been presented against his Greek origin & why the 2 works of Vickers&Pettiffer can be considered incorrect. Even if we ignore the ethnic cpmposition of Himara, Koleka's background is essential for the article.Alexikoua (talk) 19:29, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Plenty of arguments have been provided, by several users. I suggest you read carefully the talk page. Burridheut (talk) 21:42, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes but not a single decent one. Especially the references you provided lack any trace of credibility (publications of a communist-party organ & tottalitarian regime tertiary? off course fail wp:rs). To sum up Vicker&Pettifer claim should stay so far, being well aware of the quality of the arguments provided to contradict the above authors.Alexikoua (talk) 05:41, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I am requesting the other editors to reply within 24 hours, since I originally requested input 48 hours ago. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Second statement by moderator

We will have to try sectioned discussion, because the editors so far are talking past each other rather than to the moderator. There are sourced statements that the subject was of Greek ethnicity. There are sourced statements that the subject was from a predominantly Greek region. Why should these statements be accepted, or why should they be removed? Be civil and concise, and comment on content, not on contributors. If these questions are not addressed constructively within 48 hours, this discussion will be closed as failed. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:54, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, are there any other issues besides ethnicity? Robert McClenon (talk) 14:55, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Second statement by Burridheut

The source of Spiros alleged Greek identity is Mr. Pettifer. He has copied himself regarding this topic in all his books, included books coauthored with Mrs. Vickers. So there are several books of him stating the same, sometimes verbatim. So the source of this "news" is only one. That would not be a problem if the author was referring to something that is common knowledge, but this is not and he fails to provide any official records for Spiro coming from a Greek family. Not only there are no official records, but this information is used to build a whole theory as if Spiro Koleka was a rare species that survived and thrived through the Albanian communism despite being Greek. This is totally unfounded by any facts, it is a myth. I demand proof and there is none whatsoever.

Second statement by Alexikoua

My thoughts can be summarised in the following points:

1. His Greek origin is well established by 2 peer reviewed works of Pettifer&Vickers and they are in English. Thus everyone can verify them.
2. The fact that his home place wasn't Himara (the region's municipal center) as stated by Vickers&Pettiffer, but a tiny village Vuno, c. 2-3 kms from Himara, can't be considered as an error. Its not a serious argument to question the credibility of the authors.
3. The issue of the region's (as well as each village's) demographics, isn't excactly related with the subject and should be better dealed in the correspondent articles.
4. The policy of "tokenism" as stated by V&P, which is related to the subject and his Greek background, is an essential part of this biography.Alexikoua (talk) 19:32, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Second statement by Zoupan

The subject belonged to the Greek minority, which was openly suppressed (Albanianized) by the Albanian government. Despite this, individuals of the community rose to notable ranks in Communist Albania. As a representative of this circumstance, explicitly stated, I see absolutely no reason in having this removed. Alternate (speculative) views have been welcomed and encouraged in the discussion. There has been attempts to synthesize an "Albanian theory" into the article, however. The whole discussion has been disregarded by Burridheut, who was just blocked for personal attacks and edit-war, which is the main problem in this "dispute", halting constructiveness in the discussion.--Zoupan 20:59, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Second statement by Resnjari

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I will be the mediator for this dispute. Thanks, The Editor of All Things Misplaced Pages 09:25, 8 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Editor of All Things Misplaced Pages (talk • contribs)

Ok so there is a problem here. The person who filed the case and who is the only party on his/her side is not going to be here for a week and expects it to go their way without them. They basically gave permission for the decision to be made without them or their representation assuming that it will go their way. I have looked it over and keep in mind I am NOT taking sides but Capuchinpilates version is an interpretation, no doubt about it, it is not relative or anything, it is plainly an interpretation. And Misplaced Pages's rules do not allow interpretation and those are just the facts. So I am pretty new at this so I am going to take a bit to think about how I can help both sides come to a compromise and be pleased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Editor of All Things Misplaced Pages (talk • contribs) 09:31, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Alright. I have two main goals, One, to help the both sodes reach consensus, and two, reach a result that benefits the encyclopedia. That comes from two sources, "Consensus does not mean that all the parties are fully satisfied with the resolution, it merely means that all the parties can live with the resolution as that is the nature of compromise." And from, "The purpose of mediation is to secure a result that benefits the encyclopedia—not to ensure fairness for any one contributor. Mediators work with disputants but for the encyclopedia." Now keep in mind, I am not personally taking sides. I am ensuring that what each side wishes meets the standards of Misplaced Pages and if it technically doesn't, I have to help make a compromise that meets Wikipedias standards or help the side that doesnt meet the standards, live with the other sides version prevailing. I have decided that factually, NOT based on opinion, thatCapuchinpilates' version does mot meet the standards and rules of Misplaced Pages. Now if anyone takes Capuchinpilates' side, we can begin mediation about it. If not, we will begin in a week. I think that if we end up starting in a week, the primary focus should be either both sides coming to a compromise as far as a plot version that is original and different than both and meets the standards, or seeing if Capuchinpilates can live with the plot staying as it is now. I am not attempting to take sides and am just disapproving of Capuchinpilates version because it TECHNICALLY does not meet the standards and because I cannot knowingly let Misplaced Pages contain biased infornmation, there is nothing I can do about it. If anyone is on Capuchinpilates' side, let me know and we can start mediation right away, if not, lets wait a week and follow the plan I created. Thanks everyone The Editor of All Things Misplaced Pages 09:53, 8 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Editor of All Things Misplaced Pages (talk • contribs)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Balochistan#Recent changes (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• EdwardH (talk · contribs)
• Rashidzaman786 (talk · contribs)
• Zmaghndstakun (talk · contribs)
• BoogaLouie (talk · contribs)
• Cyphoidbomb (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

On July 23rd, BoogaLouie expanded the "Governance and Political Disputes" section (diff). This was reverted by Rashidzaman786 and Zmaghndstakun, saying it violates WP:NPOV and WP:COATRACK. I, BoogaLouie and CyphoidBomb have tried to ask them to give more details on why they think the content violates those policies and how the edits can put into an acceptable form. We have received just one short reply from Rashidzaman786, on July 31st, which was insufficient.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

None

How do you think we can help?

By prompting Rashidzaman786 and Zmaghndstakun to explain, in detail, why they do not agree with the original edits and to help us turn the original edit into something acceptable.

Summary of dispute by Rashidzaman786

Summary of dispute by Zmaghndstakun

I had a talk page disscussion over balouchistan Pakistan where my position was oposite from User Cyphoidbomb. All ended with a concensus. Now for another article Baluchistan I am here with User Cyphoidbomb on this DRN, but with out being relevant to another article's (Khyber Paktunkhwa) dispute (between me and User Jasimkhanum 10 on maintaning pre dispute version of article), Cyphoidbomb started persanol revenge game. 1. He misrepresented me on ANI read https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FEdit_warring&type=revision&diff=675320060&oldid=675310006 2. He deleted pre dispute version of Khyber Pakhtunkha and took Jasimkhanum 10 side and voilated WP principle that in case of dispute a pre dispute version will be maintaned. Zmaghndstakun (talk) 03:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by BoogaLouie

Basically agree with EdwardH and Cyphoidbomb. I should also say it is very frustrating to spend time and energy doing research, finding citations, and writing a section, cleaning up the article, see it reverted wholesale, spend more time asking questions on the talk page and then get essentially no response from Rashidzaman786 and Zmaghndstakun except wiki policy-jargon (WP:NPOV and WP:COATRACK). (Here is a comparison of the original version and mine.) The irony is I was prompted to work on the Balochistan article by a suggestion from Zmaghndstakun (see here). --BoogaLouie (talk) 22:38, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Cyphoidbomb

This is a continuation of a dispute that began at the Balochistan, Pakistan province article, which I became involved in in my capacity as a Wikignome. An IP user wanted to introduce content in that article about insurgencies, human rights violations, and economic strife. This was an irritant to some of the other regulars at this article, because they felt the user was pushing a POV. In this edit I took a stab at introducing this content in a neutral tone. After a series of edits by other users, my version eventually got removed. The IP started a RfC. After the IP was found to be a sock operator, the regulars started crossing out the IP's comments, which made the RfC a mess. In spite of the IP's sockpuppetry, I felt that his argument had merit and should be discussed—if human rights violations, economic strife, and insurgencies were affecting this province and could be reliably sourced, there should be a mention of this. I closed the RfC as a procedural issue (all of the strikethroughs made the RfC incomprehensible), opened a new RfC and copied all the non-sock responses to this new RfC. I notified a number of related WikiProjects: WikiProject Human Rights, Central Asia, Geography, History and so forth, to get the widest range of input. Users Rashidzaman786 and Zmaghndstakun, who didn't have many edits outside of this subject area, showed up and expressed their opinions at both RfCs, and became the most vocal opponents of this content, even when the regulars seemed to agree that some version of this content was appropriate for inclusion.

Both editors, who I again mention have very few edits at the project but who have taken to throwing around terms like WP:COATRACK, made proclamations about the sort of content that was appropriate for inclusion: Rashidzaman wrote This is an administrative province article and should expand on the History, Government, Geography, Fauna / Flora, Climate, Culture, Sports, Religion, Demography and Administration of the province. POVs being discussed do not belong to this article. The information about Baluchistan insurgency is already covered in Balochistan conflict. When I pressed this user to explain why we should exclude insurgencies, economic strife and human rights violations, which all seem intuitively tied to History, Government, Geography, Culture and Demography, the user never adequately responded. Zmaghndstakun? The same thing. Balochistan should covers gest of Greater Balouchistan movement/conflict and poverty of the region etc. However Balochistan,_Pakistan should not include and just follow the pattren of administrative unit details such as History, Government, Geography, Fauna / Flora, Administration, Districts, Climate, Culture, Education, Economy,Religion, Sports and Demography. When pressed to explain how these topics were not consistent with History, Government, etc., the user never replied directly to this point. Both seemed to say that because content existed at Balochistan conflict and Human rights violations in Balochistan, that no mention of this content belonged at Balochistan, Pakistan. That argument made zero sense to me. "Should we not mention Citizen Kane at Orson Welles?" I asked. No reply.

As for the debate about this content at Balochistan, Zmaghndstakun said explicitly at the RfC, Best solution would be to cover it in page Balochistan's section history as @Mar4d: sugested, specially human rights violations by anti-state militant groups to show WP:NPOV. He also wrote, Balochistan should covers gest of Greater Balouchistan movement/conflict and poverty of the region etc. and I have no objection if it is added to Balochistan (Total region). Rashidzaman wrote, A brief in History section of Balochistan region could also be fine, and Thanks BoogaLouie/Cyphoidbomb for understanding others point of view that greater Balochistan region should include summary of what is already covered in detail in Balochistan conflict. But apparently when BoogaLouie tried this, he got stonewalled by these very same editors, who have taken to policing these articles in spite of having virtually no experience editing here. That's where we are today. These SPAs are basically stonewalling any inclusion of unsavory content, and it doesn't seem constructive to me. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:18, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Balochistan#Recent changes discussion

• Volunteer note - There has been adequate discussion at the article talk page. The filing party is required to notify the other editors on their talk pages. The template {{Subst:DRN-notice}} is normally used for the purpose. Robert McClenon (talk) 13:53, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

I didn't know about that. Thanks for pointing it out! EdwardH (talk) 12:49, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

• Volunteer note - Although there has been discussion in the talk page, I don't find them 'extensive'. Because, the opposing party have not explained why/what part of the material (which the supporting party added) fails WP:NPOV and WP:COATRACK. DRN requires the dispute be discussed by both parties in detail. I feel this is a case for WP:AN/EW unless the opposing party is willing to discuss the issue on the talk page/here. Please wait for another volunteer's suggestion, and do not take actions solely based on my suggestions. Regards--JAaron95 05:56, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
• Volunteer note - Zmaghndstakun please refrain from making comments on user conducts. Noticeboards such as WP:AN3,WP:ANI (or) WP:ArbCom maybe used for this purpose. I don't see consensus, when your opinion is opposed by 'three' other editors. My question on why/what part of the content fails WP:NPOV and WP:COATRACK still remains unanswered. Please respond with a proper summary of dispute (on the content not on the contributor). I would also like to know if the editors Zmaghndstakun, EdwardH, BoogaLouie and Cyphoidbomb have any issues continuing this case leaving back Rashidzaman786? Regards--JAaron95 16:00, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

@Jaaron95: Would we able to reach a binding level of consensus without him? EdwardH (talk) 16:08, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

@EdwardH: I must make a note that consensus made here are not binding. If an editor does not agree with the consensus here and continues to make his point, then it is considered a conduct issue and can be reported to appropriate noticeboards--JAaron95 16:18, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi Jaaron95 I'm not sure I understand the question. Continue the DRN without Rashid's participation? If neither editor wishes to explain their objections sufficiently, or come up with a compromise, or describe what their ideal version of the article would include, then I don't know what we're doing here and I think we should focus on the open AN3 case. We're here to resolve a dispute. Their lack of participation just strikes me as more stonewalling with no interest in finding a reasonable middle-ground. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:26, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: I mean, if Zmaghndstakun comes up with reasonable objections, would you (and others) be willing to continue the case without Rashidzaman786? Regards--JAaron95 16:31, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Jaaron95 If both users are going to tag team to prevent changes to the article, then I think both users should be tasked to explain in detail what their reasonable objections are. I will point out that Ceradon just sanctioned Zmaghndstakun with a 3 month topic ban from articles related to Pakistan, India and Afghanistan. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:54, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Volunteer note - Following the reasonable objections by other involved editors, it is required that both Zmaghndstakun and Rashidzaman786 make their statements (on the content) in their respective dispute summaries. Failing to do so in 48 hours, will have this case closed as failed. As for Zmaghndstakun, being under a topic ban (which construes his editing of articles relating to Pakistan), may still participate in this case and (or) discuss the issue in the article's talk page (per WP:ABAN). Regards--JAaron95 17:11, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Cyphoidbomb the problem with Indian editors like you is that you have a coward approach. On Balouchistan Pakistan Talk page when Mard4 and Paksol opposed your anti Pakistan edits you got them edit ban. Then RFC or RFC redo to force your anti pakistan edits. I opposed it then you filed SPI to proof me sock of Paksol where you failed. Even on Baluchistan Talk page you tried the same. Then you started monitering my contribution and got me topic ban just like Mard4 and Paksol. My fault was that I was trying to maintan a pre dispute version to which even edit worrier Jasumkhanum10 also agreed finally but you guys misused that situation to get me topic ban. If all greater baluchistan have sepratism elements then why you guys from india want to show Pakistani Balouchistan in bad light? Now you guys will get banned Rashidzaman786 also because he is also opposing your efforts. A poor coward approach of deceptive cheatness. Zmaghndstakun (talk) 17:37, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm not Indian, and I have never asked for anyone to be topic banned. More red herring nonsense. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:44, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Then what was that ? https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FEdit_warring&type=revision&diff=675320060&oldid=675310006 Zmaghndstakun (talk) 17:49, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi, I will be your mediator for this discussion. I will come to the talk page. Thanks, The Editor of All Things Misplaced Pages 00:19, 8 August 2015 (UTC).

User:Theeditorofallthingswikipedia, I appreciate your willingness to help out. I must point out, however, that so far I have seen no mediation taking place. So far you have come down solidly on one side of the issue in your first posting on the subject, and when questioned have become a bit bothered. I'm not attacking you; I'm simply suggesting that this is not mediation. Omnedon (talk) 02:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I am sorry that you do not agree with the way I have handled things but keep in mind thay this is not mediation not because you dont agree with how I handle things but because there has been no discussion about the topic at hand other than my quick synopsis of my findings. And due to the lacking of actual mediation, I have not had a chance to exhibit my methods of mediating between multiple parties, therefore it might be a little premature for you to judge me. If you have continual problems, please come to my talk page to talk it over. And keep in mind that I have no final say or decision on the topic at hand and even if I had a tendentious point of view which I dont (I personally believe that this topic is insular and it wouldnt matter to me if it went either way.), as long as I am not promoting it or treating others without it unfairly, it wouldnt matter. I am going to do my job which is to make sure both sides dont rip each other apart, make suggestions, and managing compromises. Thank you for your concern. The Editor of All Things Misplaced Pages 04:13, 8 August 2015 (UTC) TO: Omnedon

This is not mediation? But you have stated that you're the mediator. I'm not sure what you're saying here. As far as suggestions are concerned, the only one I've seen so far is, "Of course you can continue to argue but I dont think that that will be productive in this case as it is so clear cut." When do you plan to begin mediation then? I just want to know what your process is here. Omnedon (talk) 04:16, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

User:Theeditorofallthingswikipedia, for the record, I realize you're quite new to Misplaced Pages, and I in no way wish to make you feel unwelcome. It may be that you jumped into dispute resolution too quickly, albeit from the best of motives. Keep in mind that dispute resolution involves dealing with parties that disagree, and once it reaches this noticeboard, there is already some degree of conflict. Making a call on which side is right, in your very first post on the subject, is probably not the best way to start. Omnedon (talk) 04:25, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Please do not be argumentative Omnedon. I meant that there has been no discussion about the topic at hand since I have taken this on so no real mediation has started yet. The two main parties of the case havent even commented yet. Secondly, I just stated a set of facts that pertain to the case and those facts back up one side better than the other, if that came off as biased to you, please take it lightly and wait for the actual mediation to start and dont just critisize me because I am new. Please read this article: Misplaced Pages:Please do not bite the newcomers as I believe that you are currently referencing this one: Misplaced Pages:Please bite the newbies. You might also consider placing this:

This user enjoys biting newbies and vandals.

userbox on your user page. Before posting another negative or argumentative comment against me, wait for me to handle the mediation at hand and realize that this is going to go nowhere as I am not dropping the case. Thank You The Editor of All Things Misplaced Pages 05:30, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello Theeditorofallthingswikipedia.
      I join Omnedon in expressing disappointment and displeasure with the way you have handled this DRN case so far.  I do not expect you to mediate before there is any actual discussion to mediate.  But neither do I expect you to flagrantly take sides and even make your own arguments in favor of one side.  I'm referring to your statements on Talk:Miss Cleo#WP:NPOV issue such as:

• "It seems pretty clear cut to me....."
• "There is no need to put that she claims she is psychic because already a psychic is a person who claims to use powers."
• "Of course you can continue to argue but I dont think that that will be productive in this case as it is so clear cut."

You are clearly arguing your own biased opinions; which would be fine if you were a participant rather than the actual moderator.
      Please give me a direct straightforward yes/no answer to this question:  If the moderator of this DRN discussion is clearly demonstrating seriously biased behavior, do I have the right to request that a different moderator be assigned.  If the answer is "yes" then I am making that request as of right now.  If the answer is "no" then you might as well close it right now so it can proceed to RFC.
      I do ask an indulgence of you (and all others involved):  I am often away from my computer for periods of 24 hours or more; so I might not always be able to give prompt replies.  But I definitely will reply to all messages and/or postings that call for a reply.
Richard27182 (talk) 07:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, you always have that right regardless of behavior. I will recuse myself as Im not going to participate in this back and forth anymore. I will mark it back to open. The Editor of All Things Misplaced Pages 07:13, 8 August 2015 (UTC) To: Richard27182

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Astrology (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs), specifically here

Users involved

• Cantelo (talk · contribs)
• AndyTheGrump (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The book 'Secrets of the Last Nazi' is a best selling book in the UK, and cites lots of supposed 'evidence' that astrology is true. Since it is providing a major source of information for the UK public to present the case that astrology is true, I believe it deserves mention in the 'Astrology in Literature' section of the wikipedia page on 'Astrology'. My addition included references which established that the book was indeed the best selling spy novel in the UK, and referenced data from the book which allegedly 'prove astrology is true'. On the talk page, as requested, I provided several further mainstream and separate references confirming this. The alternative view claims that the book's best seller status does not matters, and to mention this status would be promotional. Further, it demands that, even though I have provided copious sources which provide mainstream validation that the book is about astrology, they are insufficient.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Discussed it on the Talk page, at length, failed to reach an agreement, then gone here.

How do you think we can help?

I want several experienced Misplaced Pages editors to look at this. They should look at the evidence in my original post on 'Astrology', and some/all of the external links provided. If they can come to a consensus on whether this is sufficient, or what further information and/or references is required, then they should say what it is. Then the paragraph on the book can be added to the Misplaced Pages entry on Astrology.

Summary of dispute by AndyTheGrump

This request for dispute resolution is misguided on so many counts that it is difficult to know where to start. The assertion that the book is a 'best seller' has only so far been sourced to Amazon - on pages selling the book. No credible source whatsoever has been cited that states that the book is " a major source of information for the UK public to present the case that astrology is true" - unsurprisingly, since the book is a work of fiction. Blogs are not mainstream sources for anything. There has been no evidence presented that the book even meets Misplaced Pages notability standards, never mind evidence that it is relevant to a discussion of astrology in literature - the only legitimate grounds for inclusion. The astrology article discusses Chaucer, Shakespeare, Spenser etc in this regard - and cites secondary sources which discuss the topic in depth for the analysis. Adding WP:OR about random newly-published books to the section just because they include material about astrology would be entirely undue per WP:WEIGHT even if properly sourced, and would turn a good article into a collection of trivia. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Astrology discussion

I'm seeing more than enough discussion to begin a thread here, and am happy to moderate it. I see that Astrology is a good article; it's therefore quite important to make sure its content is proportional to coverage in reliable sources. My impression is that the literary and artistic works mentioned in the article are highly noteworthy and have received significant coverage for their astrological ties (e.g. Holst's The Planets). In other words, it isn't just a compilation of any work that has to do with astrology. Given this, our issue seems to be how, and indeed if, the "Secrets of the Last Nazi" book ought to be included in the article. Looking forward to hearing more from the parties. North of Eden (talk) 17:47, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, North of Eden. There is a case for including it - or at least a mention - because it shows that the literary tradition around astrology has continued to this day. No-one is saying 'Secrets of the Last Nazi' is Shakespearian, but it is an important indication that astrology still features in modern literary. (By analogy, no-one claims 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' is literary genius, but it still has a place in a page on Holy Grail lore) Cantelo (talk) 18:18, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is based on material verifiable in material published in reliable sources - it is not based on contributors own personal evaluations. Accordingly, you need to cite a source which states that this book is "an important indication that astrology still features in modern litera". AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:54, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I believe this group of sources (below), taken as a group, satisfy your criteria of importance and proving that astrology still features in modern literature:

Sam Kiley of Sky News, who is quoted as saying 'This is a remarkable and chilling book - a clever blend of addictive fiction and astonishing revelation.'

Guardian columnist David Boyle, who says ‘Iain King has come up with a thrilling plot and an ingenious idea that has the possibility to turn everyone's ideas upside down and back to front.’

There is part of a quote from The Sun (United Kingdom), which sells 2.2m papers a day, and which reviewed the book. The quote says 'A BRILLIANT but unconventional academic races shadowy agents, a deranged killer and power-mad priests to expose a vast conspiracy... romps along at a ferocious pace.' I can't find an online source for the Sun from when this review was printed, so I can't get the whole review.

This blog from a literary critic which says "King introduces facts and dates to substantiate his thesis making this a mesmerizing novel with the distinct possibility that it introduces new truths in a world of science previously debunked as fakery... backed up by research that brings new ideas into the possibility of reality."

"The Esoteric Codex: Nazism and the Occult" By Hans Tridle, ISBN 978-1-312-99589-5 which on page 7 says "Secrets of the Last Nazi by Iain King examines the Third Reich's fascination with astrology and predicting the future". (This quote is verifiable on google books refers to 'Secrets of the Last Nazi'

The Men Reading Book's website, which says "It was obvious that King had done some significant research into planetary effects on human behavior and offers copious references at the end of the book."

Amazon best selling charts (there are several, including this one (Amazon webpage) showing the book in the number four position, and the tweet which showed it had earlier been in the number one position, thereby indicating cultural impact.

Author Renita D'Silva, in this interview, says, "Secrets of the Last Nazi by Iain King - It is fabulous. Turns everything you have believed on its head."

Surely those together answer your requirement: they provide an important indication that astrology still features in modern literature, through the book, 'Secrets of the Last Nazi'. Cantelo (talk) 20:31, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

No. Not remotely - you aren't providing proper citations for the first three quotes, we don't cite blogs we don't cite Amazon and none of the material you have cited does anything to establish that this book has any particular significance concerning the literature of astrology. Unless and until you can provide properly-sourced and relevant material, I have nothing further to say here - I'm not interested in engaging in repetitive and time-wasting discussions with someone who clearly refuses to acknowledge Misplaced Pages policy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:58, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Cantelo and AndyTheGrump: Generally, interpreting the result of a group of sources as an explicit conclusion, when none of those sources make that conclusion themselves, is original synthesis and verboten. Also, it seems that only fictional works that are recognized by reliable sources as having a notable connection to astrology are supposed to be in the relevant article section. Would it be satisfactory to simply say something that "Astrology is often discussed in contemporary fiction; novels such as , , and feature astrology as a plot element"? If such a statement could be reliably sourced, perhaps this novel could be included as an example? North of Eden (talk) 21:12, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I think that's a bare minimum, North of Eden. When a book is outselling all the others in its genre because it has astrology as the main theme, that indicates more than a plot element, and more than just 'contemporary fiction'. It indicates suggestions concerning the truth of astrology still attract strong interest, and that astrology still features strongly in modern culture because of 'Secrets of the Last Nazi'.Cantelo (talk) 21:23, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Cantelo, what you think is 'suggested' is of no relevance whatsoever to this discussion. Without sources discussing contemporary fiction in relation to astrology, we can't include anything, and without sources discussing this particular book as a specific example of such, it isn't going to be included. WP:OR policy isn't open to negotiation. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:03, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

North of Eden - or someone - you're going to have to step in here. My words (eg 'suggested') keep being twisted, and implications drawn which aren't relevant: no-one's trying to renegotiate WP:OR, nor is it remotely relevant in this case. Please let's communicate in good faith! Note that I have provided sources, including a book and a Sky News reporter (and plenty of others) which surpass requirements made by AndyTheGrump; and those requirements aren't even what really matters in this case. Cantelo (talk) 22:48, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• • @Cantelo: It is important that all editors assume good faith, and that's what I'm seeing so far -- I think it's understandable for a content dispute to become a little heated. I agree that almost all of your references are reliable sources. That said, WP:OR is relevant here. From what I'm seeing, the sources you've provided state two things. Some of them state that the book is about astrology; others state that the book has gained widespread notoriety, and is a bestseller. However, a statement that the book reflects public interest in astrology can't rely on those sources. Instead, to avoid original synthesis, it has to be backed up by a claim of its own, as it introduces a completely new connection into the equation, one that isn't mentioned in the other sources. North of Eden (talk) 23:02, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

You be being side-tracked, here, North of Eden. The addition would come under the sub-section in the Astrology page on 'Cultural Impact'. By agreeing, as you just did, that the book is about astrology, and that the book has gained widespread notoriety, cultural impact has been demonstrated. In other words, the test is not whether we can find a single source which proves public interest in astrology (that should be clear from the number of people who read horoscopes!). The test - which seems to have been applied to other examples in the Cultural Impact section - is whether astrology has impacted on culture. This book is demonstrably popular culture (as you have just agreed), astrology has clearly impacted on it (as you have also agreed), therefore it goes in. And note that, since these are two criteria, we can very easily provide a single (or more) source to prove each one. Cantelo (talk) 23:15, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Since it has become self-evident that Cantelo hasn't the slightest interest in providing the necessary sources to justify inclusion of the disputed material, I am withdrawing from this voluntary dispute resolution proces. The material concerned isn't remotely justified, and inclusion would violate multiple Misplaced Pages policies - notably WP:RS, WP:OR and WP:WEIGHT. If it is added again without prior agreement, and without the necessary sourcing, I will report the matter. I am not interested in participating in this facile time-wasting nonsense any longer. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:22, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

So, I've won the argument but the person I've been arguing with has decided to withdraw from the process, thereby refusing to accept the outcome. What happens now in WP:DNR ? Cantelo (talk) 23:34, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

You have 'won' no argument. Participation in dispute resolution is voluntary - and I have made it entirely clear what will happen if you violate Misplaced Pages policies by misusing an article to promote a book based on nothing but your own irrelevant opinions. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:38, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, so we can agree. I will do as you say, and not promote a book based on nothing but my own irrelevant opinions. Instead, I will add to the 'Cultural Impact' (of astrology) section by noting that astrology still impacts on modern literature through 'Secrets of the Last Nazi', providing references which confirm the book's notoriety (which have already been endorsed by North of Eden and references that astrology has clearly impacted on the book (also the book endorsed by North of Eden). Agreed?Cantelo (talk) 23:52, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Nothing has been agreed by anyone. Add the book, and I will call for you to be blocked from editing. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:56, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Per AndyTheGrump's withdrawal, I will close this discussion as unsuccessful. Please note that I have not endorsed any position, save to say that I didn't see sufficient WP:RS to indicate a connection between the book and public interest in astrology. If editors wish to return here at a later date, I'm happy to resume the discussion, but I have a feeling that we won't be back at this particular forum. North of Eden (talk) 00:38, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Mark Regnerus (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Cityside189 (talk · contribs)
• Nomoskedasticity (talk · contribs)
• Roscelese (talk · contribs)
• Nat Gertler (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

I found an error in the use of a word, offered discussion, waited, then made the edit. It was un-done by one user who did not contribute to the talk page, and I reverted my work. It was then undone by another user who "agreed" with the first opinion, who at that point had not used the talk page for this edit. With my insistence, the second user posted some discussion but did not rely on facts, only opinion, and refuses to utilize a neutral point of view with regard to the item content. Since I am new and do not want to get into edit warring, I tried hard to use the talk pages but the group of users "watching" the page are in collusion to keep the word as it stands because it fits their emotional position on the topic. I can't keep reverting to my earlier work because I will be banned for edit warring. If these two users and their co-horts will agree to use neutral POV and allow the word change to stand, it will allow other users to weigh in on the matter as well, as long as they read and contribute to the talk page before undoing the work.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Left messages on their own talk page to invite more dialog, researched the factual definitions of the word, advised users not to change the edit without seeing the talk page, and researched the dispute resolution procedures on Misplaced Pages.

How do you think we can help?

Please admonish the users to allow edits that better position a neutral POV. Advise them that using factual information will aid all of us in making Misplaced Pages a better, more respected place, and that maintaining an emotional position using false information is not what Misplaced Pages is all about.

Summary of dispute by Nomoskedasticity

Nat Gertler captures my sense of why "disclaimer" isn't the right word. I suppose we could use a quote, but I think it's not necessary (& undue, perhaps), and I still don't see the problem with disavowal. Not sure DRN is necessary to sort this out -- and it certainly won't result in other editors being "admonished"... Nomoskedasticity (talk) 16:35, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Roscelese

Talk:Mark Regnerus discussion

As an editor who is regularly on the page but who has not yet weighed in on this disclaimer/disavowal topic: the material being discussed is not the sort of boilerplate disclaimer that the complaining editor points to (i.e., boilerplate that indicates that this person speaking is not there to represent the point of view of the organization he is being represented as), both because this is being done after the fact and because it takes the step of putting information to contradict the claims being made (i.e., the ASA stance). Had it been the ASA making this statement (or had the school represented the ASA statement as their own stance), this would be a full-throated disavowal. (As it is, it's an oddly passive-aggressivish sort of move; "you don't speak for us, but hey, that guy over there sez you're very wrong. Just sayin'. But hey, it's a free country, everyone can make up their own opinion, amiright?") Plus, merely stating that it is a disclaimer does not state what it is disclaim. "Not intended for use as a suppository" would also be a disclaimer. As such, if we must avoid the word "disavowal", we do it by being more specific, not less. This includes Regnerus's department at the University of Texas-Austin issuing a statement that Regnerus's views "do not reflect the views of the Sociology Department of The University of Texas at Austin" and that the American Sociological Association "takes the position that the conclusions he draws from his study of gay parenting are fundamentally flawed on conceptual and methodological grounds and that findings from Dr. Regnerus’ work have been cited inappropriately in efforts to diminish the civil rights and legitimacy of LBGTQ partners and their families." (Note, I have shifted the statement from being made by the department chair to being made by the department, because that's what's marking this an "official statement" does; it's the opposite of the disclaimer, it is someone speaking in their official position to speak for the department.) I am also going to suggest that we link to this version of the statement, as it is dated earlier and thus better reflects when the statement was actually made, rather than it was reposted; I would've just made this change myself now; but I don't want normal editing to be mistaken for trying to address the core of this dispute in some way. --Nat Gertler (talk) 15:14, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, despite your claim that you will be a "mediator", this is not WP:mediation. --Nat Gertler (talk) 17:13, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the dialog and understanding. I understand now to notice the users involved in a dispute and also that this dispute request may have been premature. I admit I became unsettled and perhaps did not understand as clearly as I do now that "there is no deadline". Thanks for you patience with my learning trajectory.

Disavowal used in the article context is used to mean "Regnerus' own department thinks his research is crappy". But looking carefully at the department statement, it conveys three things. 1. "the research is the author's work and not ours", 2 "the ASA thinks it is crappy and that it's being used to hurt people", and 3. "whoever reads this statement should decide for themselves whether the research is crappy". To condense this three-pronged statement into the word "disavowed" is to sock-puppet the department into supporting the still-contested idea that the research is crappy. If the department said it was crappy, then the article should say that. But the department appears to have sidestepped calling it crappy. Because it has, the Wiki article should be equally careful not to summarize the department's position into a word that carries the negative sentiment. As the department has said in #3, it's up to the reader to decide for themselves. So while there is considerable effort here and elsewhere to affirm the conclusion that this research is all crappy and perhaps an equally active advocacy that the research is not all crappy, the Wiki should stay out of that mess and just report neutrally on the fact of the department issuing the statement. The department's statement is being used on both sides of the crappiness debate to corroborate their specific POVs. I suggested "disclaimer" to replace disavowal because disclaimer allows distancing without judgement, while disavowal generally means that the thing being disavowed is against their views.

I included Roscelese in my dispute because in her words, she prefers disavowed which suggests her own bias and non-neutral POV. She also deleted my inclusion of his study in another article calling it a "bad study". (am I allowed here to comment on her behavior in another article??). Anyway it illuminates my point that some editors prefer the word disavowed because it fit's better with their opinion of the study. I guess we are all free to think as we choose but we should not hijack the department's words and use them to support a particular view. For example I didn't try to summarize that "the department felt pressure to respond to the debate so it carefully crafted a statement that would not disaffirm the research because it still believed in it". If I said that they I would be the one trying to use the department's statement to fit my POV.

Nat's statement is a good one, with additional edit: This includes Regnerus's department at the University of Texas-Austin issuing a statement that Regnerus's views "do not reflect the views of the Sociology Department of The University of Texas at Austin" and that the American Sociological Association "takes the position that the conclusions he draws from his study of gay parenting are fundamentally flawed on conceptual and methodological grounds and that findings from Dr. Regnerus’ work have been cited inappropriately in efforts to diminish the civil rights and legitimacy of LBGTQ partners and their families, and suggests that society as a whole to evaluate his claims".

Finally, I learned about Coatracking. This article may fit the definition, specifically the example "But it's true!" I think my discomfort and distress also arises from the fact that this article is supposed to be about a living human being , but most of the text in the article is devoted to a debate about his work, and then moves on to another debated topic about the study's funding source. It really doesn't conform to the sentiment of a biography. Critics in the debate have personalized the author, and here we are in Misplaced Pages contributing to this. There is much more to this man than his work, but somehow editors have used his biography page to raise (and then try to settle) debate about his work. Perhaps the best way to resolve this current dispute is to correct the word choice and then this entire section should be pulled out and linked over to a place set aside specifically for the debate of the research, such as: https://en.wikipedia.org/New_Family_Structures_Study.

I hope I have illustrated my points with care and diligence and not offended anyone or broken any more rules.

Cityside189 (talk) 21:47, 8 August 2015 (UTC)Cityside189 (talk) 22:49, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

References

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Coatrack#.22But_it.27s_true.21.22
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/Portal:Biography

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Equatorial Guinea#Portuguese in EQG (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Ukabia (talk · contribs)
• Luizdl (talk · contribs)
• Template:Uer

Dispute overview

User:Luizdl has added Portuguese as an official language of Equatorial Guinea citing government sources that, to me, seems vague about whether Portuguese has become official. No other governmental source like UNHCR (2012) and CIA World Factbook (2015) has listed Portuguese as an official language. Users have previously removed Portuguese translations from the article most recently in July 2015 by User:Moalli here with the note "Portuguese is not official, it has only been suggested by the president. Constitution doesn't recognise it yet. Certain users keep inflating figures/presence of Portuguese". User:Luizdl has cited this, which says it will be official, but we still have no solid source that says it has been. There is another source from their UK embassy that I've found here which says it has become official, but I'm still wondering if this is in the constitution as User:Moalli had noted, or if this may be the governments lip service in order to join the CPLP, like some of the criticisms they've received in the press.

The question may be whether wikipedia is the only source of information with Portuguese as an official language of EQG because of some government news posts, or whether we wait to see if this is actually verifiable.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

We have added sources which were out of date or were not focused on the official status of Portuguese, but entry in CPLP. Added another source confirming a presidential decree declaring Portuguese an official language: http://www.dn.pt/inicio/portugal/interior.aspx?content_id=1622890 Aflis (talk) 13:43, 9 August 2015 (UTC) How do you think we can help?

By giving a final word on whether the sources User:Luizdl had used to back the official status of Portuguese in EQG are valid enough considering now other country information sources don't say the same, or we wait to have/find more concrete sources that Portuguese is actually recognised in the fullest capacity as an official language in EQG, and therefore preventing further edits that add Portuguese translations and so on in the article.

Summary of dispute by Luizdl

Talk:Equatorial Guinea#Portuguese_in_EQG discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Goshen High_School_(Indiana) 

Users involved

• Jrobeck59 (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Someone keeps changing the mascot "Redskins" to read other than what it is currently! The problem is I have NOT been involved in it, but your website says I am??? I have sent an email to your contact page also explaining this!This is what the page reads when I pull it up: You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. I have NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN IT, but agree with the person that says "Redskins" is our current Mascot until 2016!

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

NONE - I DID NOT START THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you think we can help?

Leave it alone , LOCK it until January 1st, 2016! It should read this way! "Redskins"! STOP BLAMING ME FOR THIS SO CALLED DISPUTE!!!!!!!!!!!

Summary of dispute by

Goshen High_School_%28Indiana%29 discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Valery Kaufman (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Wmsf1101 (talk · contribs)
• Cannolis (talk · contribs)
• RA0808 (talk · contribs)
• Materialscientist (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The dispute is over Valery Kaufman’s legal name, which is incorrectly listed as Valeriya Kiseleva. The dispute is documented in Talk, in the “Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2015” and “Valery’s real birth name” sections as well as throughout the Edit page. Valery Kaufman’s legal name is Valeriia Kaufman, not Valeriya Kiseleva. This mistake is attributed to a post on a small French blog which incorrectly states “de son vrai nom Valeriya Kiseleva.” Valeriya Kaufman is, instead, a Russian actress. Ms. Kaufman and we have separately repeatedly attempted to correct her legal name, but all edits to her name have been changed back to Valeriya Kiseleva. Misplaced Pages has now blocked Ms. Kaufman from making any changes.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Through both the Talk and Edit pages, the editors were notified that Valery Kaufman’s legal name was being edited because it was incorrect and was referring to a Russian actress. Cannolis responded on the Talk page and asked for a reliable source that contradicts the French blog. In response, a scan of Ms. Kaufman’s Russian passport was provided. However, RA0808 rejected the scan because it is “not an acceptable source” and reverted the changes.

How do you think we can help?

Rule that the statement by Ms. Kaufman and her legal counsel that her legal name is Valeriia Kaufman, which statement is supported by Ms. Kaufman’s scanned passport, is more reliable than an unsourced French blog and allow her page to be corrected.

Summary of dispute by Cannolis

Summary of dispute by RA0808

Summary of dispute by Materialscientist

Talk:Valery Kaufman discussion

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Waitrose (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Erzan (talk · contribs)
• Redrose64 (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Whether the area served by Waitrose should be Great Britain or Britain, or remain South of Scotland, England and Wales.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Provided links to support the case that Waitrose is serving the North of Scotland and urged users to use the website to see for themselves.

How do you think we can help?

Decide and explain, if not every single part of Wales or England has to have a store (or have goods delivered to it) for both constituencies of Britain to be stated, why treat Scotland separately?

Summary of dispute by Redrose64

Talk:Waitrose discussion

• Volunteer note - While there has been brief discussion on the article talk page, it has been perfunctory. There does not appear to have been extensive discussion. While I am not declining or accepting this case, I am recommending that it be declined pending further discussion on the talk page. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.