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	This article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 22, 2004.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 19, 2004 Refreshing brilliant prose Kept October 20, 2004 Featured article review Kept October 29, 2005 Featured article review Demoted February 21, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed August 21, 2010 Peer review Reviewed September 14, 2012 Peer review Reviewed Current status: Former featured article

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

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Infobox

why doesn't this page have an infobox? 118.92.70.16 (talk) 10:22, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

See past discussions. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:50, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Images

Mozart is one of the most well known opera composers worldwide - next to Verdi and Puccini. Three of his master pieces are ranking constantly among the Top 10 (Zauberflöte, Don Giovanni, Figaro). Of course this three operas should be featured in the biography, also with pictures of real live performances. An opera only lives on stage, the atmosphere and the constellation of the characters can not be described by words only. The intention of the Misplaced Pages photographers is to get access to the best productions worldwide. They have traveled to Salzburg and Edinburgh, to Oslo, Lyon and Dresden, to Graz, St. Margarethen, Bregenz and Linz, they took photographs in all major Viennese theaters and opera houses, in order to create emblematic images for all important operas. Just for Misplaced Pages. Please, don't be disrespectful toward this endeavor.--Meister und Margarita (talk) 19:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC) Upcoming productions:

• Tosca, St. Margarethen, directed by Robert Dornhelm
• Les contes de Hofmann, Bregenz Festival, directed by Stefan Herheim
• Fidelio, Salzburg Festival, directed by Claus Guth
• Der Rosenkavalier, Salzburg Festival, directed by Harry Kupfer
• La traviata, Musiktheater Linz, directed by Robert Wilson
• The Tempest, Staatsoper Wien, directed by Robert Lepage (coproduction with Québec City Opera Festival and Metropolitan Opera New York)

Isn't this a list of top directors and top productions?--Meister und Margarita (talk) 19:28, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

I would hardly want to be disrespectful to this endeavor. But I do think images for Mozart operas should be chosen with care. Opera production nowadays is a hugely controversial area because of the widespread practice of hiring stage directors who run roughshod over the intentions of the composer and his librettists. Since the article is about Mozart himself, it would be sensible to pick images from productions that Mozart would likely have found recognizable or sensible, particularly with regard to costumes. These should not be hard to find. Opus33 (talk) 15:39, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

IMHO, da Ponte and Mozart would be very happy with this production as it was both playful and thoughtful. Unfortunately we can't ask them to decide the dispute. As it is practically impossible to convince photographers and theaters to donate pictures of previous productions to WikiCommons (trust me: I tried it for several years, unsuccessfully), we must live with what he have. The two Misplaced Pages opera photographers have had to fight for more than two years to obtain access to major opera houses. And what do they get? Criticism, cynical remarks, blame. It costs a lot of energy (and money) to (a) convince theaters to open their doors, (b) to travel to the venue, (c) to take the pictures, (d) to make the selection and find accordance with the director or the theatre, (e) to upload the pictures on WC. This is an enormous workload, given as a gift to Misplaced Pages. Then: You never know in advance if the production will be a masterpiece or not. But you have to plan in advance as the photo rehearsal takes place two to seven days prior to the opening night. Therefore the selection of the productions to be photographed is tricky. In this case there was the choice between Salzburg (directed by Bechtolf) and Dresden (directed by Erath). Read the critics, my guess is that the decision for Dresden was the better choice. By the way, Wikimedia is covering a part of the travel expenses of the two photographers. Somehow it seems a little absurd to me that the one hand is sponsoring the production and the other hand enWP is deleting the results. If you have a suggestion for photographing a specific production: Please send me your proposal. I will forward it immediately. Best regards--Meister und Margarita (talk) 23:40, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, you have to concede that WP editors naturally will judge the pictures solely on how they contribute to the article, not on how difficult they were to obtain! I don't think that's being cynical. To give an example, one of the pictures evidently shows Figaro and Susanna dressed up as the Commedia dell'Arte characters Harlequin and Columbine. This is clever and cute, but it using it as an illustration to show readers what the first scene of "The Marriage of Figaro" looks like is very misleading. There is certainly no evidence that Mozart or Da Ponte wanted their hero and heroine to be portrayed in this way, nor that other stage directors are likely ever to follow this lead.

If I could try to make a constructive suggestion, I think pictures of controversial "Regieoper" productions would work very well for the articles about the stage directors, who often are famous (or at least notorious :=) ). Also, such pictures would be fine in articles about the singers -- some of the pictures you've posted capture the singers in vivid poses and facial expressions, which is great.

What productions might fit better in illustrating the Mozart operas themselves? Well, I've seen a few that I think would work well. The Glyndebourne La finta giardiniera of a couple summers ago seemed a fairly serious effort to produce a composer-faithful performance, and I also saw a Don Giovanni in Prague last summer which was quite overtly an effort to look like what the 1787 premiere there might have looked like. Sometime ago John Eliot Gardiner, royally sick of what stage directors were doing to his opera performances, staged his own composer-faithful Cosi fan tutte in Paris, which I've seen on DVD. Surely there are many more.

I hope this is helpful. Opus33 (talk) 00:35, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

We have this discussion about ″Regietheater″ and ″faithful to the composer″ also in the German speaking countries - and the two parties are not always nice to each other. Frankly, I think there are good/great productions in both fields. In 2012, Salzburg showed two horrible Regieoper-productions (Věc Makropulos, directed by Marthaler, and Die Frau ohne Schatten, directed by Loy). In both cases you didn't understand the opera. In 2014 Hermanis' Il trovatore and in 2015 Guth's Fidelio made both sense although there were transposed into the world of today. From the point of view of an encyclopedia: We should reflect reality, i.e. both sides. It would be great to have pics from al least six Cosí fan tutte productions: Salzburg (Rennert), Salzburg (Ponelle), Paris (Gardiner), Aix-en-Provence (Chereau), again Salzburg (Guth) and Madrid (Haneke). The sad reality until now is, that we do not have even one picture of any of these milestone productions. (In this case I did not go back in history as there was no proper theatre photography before the 1960s). In case of Figaro, I think that Mozart would have had fun with the commedia-del-arte-quotation - and I'm pretty sure he would have loved the playfulness and the bright colors of the production. I chose this image as it reflects two main characteristics of Mozarts opera: Figaro is an ensemble opera with many main roles. There is lot of confusion and quarreling going on. Thirdly, the Count stands in the middle between to rivaling parties. Furthermore: You see very well that it is a comedy and not a tragic story of murder and death. Regards--Meister und Margarita (talk) 09:05, 18 September 2015 (UTC) By the way: Unfortunately all productions you mentioned cannot be photographed any longer. Access to prague opera was denied till now. Suggestions can only be translated into photographs if they arrive at least four weeks prior to opening night - as the press office has to admit the photographers and travel arrangement have to be made.

• I agree, along with the folks on Talk:The Marriage of Figaro, that the Semperopera images have no obvious place in this article or in The Marriage of Figaro. There seems to be a consensus of that view. I have removed the image as distracting (jarring, even), non-helpful, non-relevant. Softlavender (talk) 04:53, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Religious views of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

Yes, its has it's place. That you brought up catholic is not the same thing as being a lifelong adherent. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you don't like his belief/views, but like his music, that your personal problem. Please do not try to create a Mozart that fits your own views or that of your own time. RudiLefkowitz (talk) 11:50, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Infobox?

What infobox would be appropriate for this article? It is need of one.

-- SpareKash (talk) 22:49, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

As Michael Bednarek said, just a few lines further up on this same page: See past discussions. I observe also that the "needs infobox" flag in hidden test in the Project Austria banner shell at the top of this talk page is marked "no".—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:59, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Give this an infobox.

This seems to be missing an info box. As you may see above. Give this page an infobox before it is nominated to be deleted. MetallicaMan800 (talk) 15:58, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Lacking an infobox is not a reason to delete a page or nominate it for deletion - see WP:DEL-REASON. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:04, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Mozart c. 1780, by Johann Nepomuk della Croce
Born	Johannes Chrysostomus Wolfgangus Theophilus Mozart (1756-01-27)27 January 1756 Salzburg
Died	5 December 1791(1791-12-05) (aged 35) Vienna
Works	List of compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Signature

It's missing an infobox because people disagree on this topic. A bit of history: the last one was in May and promptly reverted, before was in 2011, in 2010, in 2009, again in 2009, in 2008, again in 2008, in 2007, again in 2007. An infobox was reverted in May 2007 which had been in the article for more than a year. {{infobox writer}} (the 2015 choice) was not appropriate, but it could be {{infobox classical composer}} or {{infobox person}}. Following the models of Bach and Beethoven, it could be something like this. Note that persondata, which so far listed the data of birth and death, is no longer supported, and no prominent link is in the lead that points at a neutral list of his compositions. This might be an acceptable compromise. Image and all parameters are of course open for discussion. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:08, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

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