Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 05:49, 15 August 2006

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Category_talk:Pseudoscience

Hi KV, I appreciate your recent comments on pseudoscience on User_talk:Jefffire and elsewhere. You may want to check out Category_talk:Pseudoscience as well. best regards, Jim Butler 05:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Thought field therapy

KrishnaVindaloo wrote:

Hi Super. I made some changes to NPOV the art. If you have any particular recommendations to keep it neutral, please don't hesitate to post.

Exactly which article are you referring to? — Super-Magician (talk • contribs • count) ★ 22:09, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

hi again. I mean the TFT (thought field therapy) article. Cheers KrishnaVindaloo 04:48, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I looked up the article without capitalizing 'field' and 'therapy'. Anyway, I think the article is a bit better. However, I'm not sure you'll get anywhere simply by changing 'claims' and 'claimed' to 'says' and 'said'. I did see your edits further down the page, and they seem fine. However, I'm not really the one you should talk to about improving the article. I simply replaced a box with the proper template. — Super-Magician (talk • contribs • count) ★ 14:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, Super. I'll keep working on it. KrishnaVindaloo 06:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Integration of subjects i the Pseudoscience article

In keeping with this comment of yours.....:

"Well, now (or else continue a reversion war) it seems the only option is to make the issues more concrete and recognizable to the reader by integrating examples of pseudoscientific subjects into the article text." KrishnaVindaloo 06:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I have been wondering how to couple the list and integration of the subject into the article. I think that if an item deserves listing, the reasons should be documented by inclusion in the article. I have a non-standard idea that might work, it just needs the proper heading.

We could use the references' code, with a proper heading. Then the explanatory notes, with references and links, would automatically appear in a section that provides explanations and documentation.

That way, if an item's documentation and references aren't good enough, removing it from the list automatically removes all mention of it.

What do you think of the idea? I know it's not standard practice, so another way might be better, but more cumbersome. -- Fyslee 07:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes Fyslee. I believe integrating into the narrative of the article will be fine, and also a list will help readers to search. There may be different reasons for placing an item into a list, or into the text, so reasons (or excuses) for removal from each may be different. Things right now are a bit too hot for reasonable normal editing. So I suggest normal editing be postponed until censorship due to agenda is less prevelant. So, I believe it would be more appropriate now to integrate certain examples into the text of the article. The section on characteristics of pseudoscience certainly needs expanding, and the piece on protoscience needs minimizing. So lets just get on with explaining pseudoscientific subjects with reference to specific pseudoscientific subjects in order to help the reader. We will no doubt be able to add a list of fields considered to be pseudoscientific later on (as that is what NPOV policy tells us clearly we can do). Explanation and clarity are the goal. But lets try to avoid triggering the censors and promoters of various interests. KrishnaVindaloo 08:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi agian Fyslee. There's definitely more work to do on the category talk of pseudoscience cat also. Right now its written as if there is a definitive list of pseudosciences somewhere (which is nonsense). The reader needs to be able to browse a good list of pseudoscientific subjects in order to understand the subject of pseudoscience. It can be a lot more extensive when good sources are given. KrishnaVindaloo 09:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Nuanced thinking

We seem to be editing a number of articles together. I would encourage you to embrace nuanced characterizations rather than making issues "black and white".

I seem to notice you getting into a rather a lot of polarized discussions. I personally find it helpful to start by acknowledging as much as possible of another person's contribution - to work to find common elements - and then to raise remaining points of difference with the expectation that a compromise might be viable. None of us has the one truth; each of us sees a refracted view of the world, one point of view on the totality.

Best wishes, Hgilbert 10:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Sure, HGilbert. I am interested in the shades of grey. The facts need to be presented, and the reader needs to make up their own mind. KrishnaVindaloo 01:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Chiropractic

KV, after reading your comments about your plans, I feel guardedly comfortable with intentions concerning adding the pseudoscience elements to the chiro page. I agree with you that chiropractic has the history and even some current activities that can be described as pseudoscience. And I trust in your neutral tone and ability to bring it out in a NPOV way. If successful, we will have succeeded in creating an article that is probably the most complete and accurate description of chiropractic to date. I am only hopeful that you are able to help us illustrate how chiropractic is not the practice it was 100 years ago. 90 percent of people go to chiropractors for neck and low back pain. That is different than the perceived epistomology that chiropractic's competition would like scientists and the public to believe. They would like them portrayed as quacks. There is strong opposition to any edits that shed chiropractic in any form of positive light. We have yet to be able to present any research that is not deleted as insufficient or biased, no matter who performed it. I know this is really not your concern, as you will move on to other things. So please be careful and I will continue to work with you for a complete and balanced article. --Dematt 12:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Dematt. Do you have any sources on "chiropractor's competition"?. Sounds intriguing. KrishnaVindaloo 04:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

These are sites by an MD and physical therapist. Both fields are competitors and both website owners are editors here at WP. I'm not sure healthy skepticism is a good description, but you can decide for yourself as I am certainly POV in the other direction. As far as pseudoscientific qualities of each field, I do not have a reliable source that would call them pseudoscience, but I don't have access to any of the books that consider this subject. Perhaps you do;) --Dematt 04:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh I see. Well, they both refer to science and pseudoscientific ideas one way or another, so I think they are both reliable to read for yourself. But Chirobase seems to be the more relaible for Misplaced Pages. The other one looks to be a personal website. KrishnaVindaloo 04:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

3RR

KrishnaVindaloo, I would be remiss in not letting you know you are already up to four reverts on pseudoscience. Three different editors have disagreed with your assertions on an issue that has been extensively argued on the talk page. Any further reversions on the issue of chiropractic in that article will perhaps result in a block of your access in accordance with WP:3RR. ... Kenosis 05:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Kenosis. I understand the 3RR. My last edit was a correction, and not a revert. Re-parenting is not mentioned by Lilienfeld. Lilienfeld classes chiropractic as pseudoscience and he criticises chiropractors for using spinal manipulations for such "ailments" as mental "imbalance", the vapours, add, dyslexia, mental trauma, and increasing "human potential". Your so called extensive discussion is completely unclear, as is the description and title of the section in question in relation to the entries already there. Plus, in order for you to be consistent with your deletion of chiropractic, you must delete other entries from the list. Now, if you are interested in being even halfway convincing, perhaps you would like to discuss and refer to the literature in question. KrishnaVindaloo 05:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)