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*'''England''' - per Martinevans123 above. Giving Corbyn's pob as '], ], England' provides the reader with more information than '], ], United Kingdom'.
*'''England''' - per Martinevans123 above. Giving Corbyn's pob as '], ], England' provides the reader with more information than '], ], United Kingdom'.
:<small>...And less than '], England, United Kingdom' </small><span style="color:#000080">'''Wykx'''</span> 11:30, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
:<small>...And less than '], England, United Kingdom' </small><span style="color:#000080">'''Wykx'''</span> 11:30, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
::<small>... and less than '], England, United Kingdom, Europe, Northern Hemisphere, The Earth, etc'. '], ], England' is enough - the rest redundant. </small> ] (]) 11:45, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
*'''UK''' / '''United Kingdom''' sovereign state per AusLondonder. ] (]) 11:42, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
*'''UK''' / '''United Kingdom''' sovereign state per AusLondonder. ] (]) 11:42, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
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I removed 'United Kingdom' in the infobox, replacing it with the more specific and equally correct 'England'. Two users, Nomoskedasticity and Nonsenseferret, have now removed any reference to a country at all, claiming that it should be 'UK or nothing'. Why? Zacwill (talk) 22:48, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Why did you remove UK? "More specific" wasn't a good reason, imo. Is it an ideological thing? (For me it isn't -- I didn't replace UK, I just left out the country until something could be agreed.) Nomoskedasticity (talk) 22:56, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
This is simply to do with the geographical location of Wiltshire - it is not to do with his nationality or the guidance at WP:UKNATIONALS. Wiltshire is in England. His nationality is British (or UK), but what this concerns is his birthplace - which is, as a matter of simple and undeniable fact, within England. Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:07, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
There's nothing wrong with either UK or England, but it's nonsensical to have neither. England is more specific, and before he became Leader his infobox said England. There is no good (that is, non-political) reason to depart from that now. Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:30, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
England is a political choice here. It should clearly neutrally describe the state as UK just like David Cameron and many many other articles do. --ℕℱ23:51, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
If anything, 'UK' is the political choice. England is a geographical region, whereas the United Kingdom is a political nation state. Zacwill (talk) 00:21, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Agree with Ghmyrtle. Don't see why it has to be cast as "a political choice". In fact, as I'm pretty sure Ghmyrtle had no intention to make a political choice, how exactly can this be misconstrued as a political choice? Martinevans123 (talk) 00:02, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
I strongly favour having the country as UK, especially for a UK-wide politician. Wiltshire is undeniably in the UK. It's also clear that a lot of nationalistic and activist editors are seeking to remove all references to the UK from Misplaced Pages and replace everything with "England" and "English". AusLondonder (talk) 00:09, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
I think it's the other way round actually. Fifty years ago, it wouldn't have been remotely controversial to describe English things as English, but now everything has to be 'British'. Zacwill (talk) 00:21, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
The issue may be simply a matter of choosing either "normal postal usage" for address of birth, or "nation where nation may not be a normal postal usage". More to the point, most people speak of "London, England" than speak of "London, UK" it would appear. I do know that telling someone they were born in "Glasgow, UK" might well result in an impact being felt upon your nose. There is a quite noticeable amount in pride of individual country within the UK. To that end, I suggest we use "England" (or "Scotland" or "Ireland" or "Wales" or "Man") where the person specifically refers to himself or herself as "English" (etc.) and "UK" where they evince no such national identification personally. Collect (talk) 00:57, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
FWIW, concerning this topic, there's inconsistency across the infoboxes of the UK opposition leaders, who've never been prime minister. GoodDay (talk) 19:01, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
The inconsistency is enshrined and is well summed up in the essay I already mentioned, which specifically cautions against well-meaning attempts to enforce "consistency". Nothing good will come of it. --John (talk) 19:12, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
I've no intentions of changing this infobox's birth-country entry. That'll be up to other editors here to decide. I do recommend that the United Kingdom be added to all the infoboxes of UK opposition leaders, however. GoodDay (talk) 19:30, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
I agree with John that trying to enforce uniformity or consistency always ends in tears. Whatever it originally said, leave it at that. If I had a preference, it would be UK per GoodDay. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:31, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
To be helpful I to some extent agree with both User:Collect and GoodDay (I personally use the UK not England, as my birth nation), However David Cameron's page says ... Born David William Donald Cameron ... (snip) ...Marylebone, London, United Kingdom ... surely Corbyn as the Opposition leader in the of the same UK Parliament... it should be the same. -- BOD --13:58, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
… and Winston Churchill's page has his pob as Blenheim Palace, Woodstock, Oxfordshire, England. As has been noted above, there is no standard format. Also, the notion that infoboxes of politicians in the UK Parliament should have United Kingdom in their place of birth because it is the UK Parliament is a false analogy. Firstly, the articles are about the person, not the office. Secondly, the offices of head of government in many sovereign states have eligibility criteria that include a requirement to have been born in that state. The office of UK Prime Minister is not limited to those born in the UK. Daicaregos (talk) 15:12, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
We should also use United Kingdom for all the Prime Ministers aswell. Of course, this is a decision to be made by others. GoodDay (talk) 17:55, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm fine with "city, England, U.K." since U.K. is included. Wykx 20:59, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
But, I'm not so keen. As England is at least a country. And we also have counties, of course. I also now see that {{Infobox officeholder}} doesn't even mention UK - it's all US centric. So not much point looking for any advice there! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:06, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
From an international perspective, sovereign states prevail. Wykx 21:17, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Yes it says that. The first (and all the followings) example of Template:Infobox_officeholder/example is Lamar, Missouri, U.S.. We have even an example of London, United Kingdom for the death place.
I won't copy/paste here all the examples of Template:Infobox_officeholder/example please click on the link and you'll see the full list of examples. You can also go to Place of birth which states As a general rule with respect to passports, the place of birth is determined to be country that currently has sovereignty over the actual place of birthWykx 23:10, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Well, the version I viewed earlier on just before I posted said United Kingdom, so I can't help thinking it was changed to England just to support your argument. I'm going to change it back since I doubt it was done with consensus. This is Paul (talk) 21:15, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Ah, great. We just now need to check the infoboxes for all UK politicians, to find earliest form. And whatever the earliest one was, wins! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:26, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
UK - make decisions based on what is sensible, not whatever the first to edit arbitrarily picked. If the first edit said 'the milky way', would we stick with that - it is quite accurate, no reason to change. --ℕℱ23:35, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
UK / United Kingdom I strongly favour having the country (ie sovereign state) listed in the infobox. It is standard. The UK is a unitary state. Can you imagine US bios saying Born: "Houston, Texas"? Nationalism is a primary motivating factor here. Individuals born in the Soviet Union, almost without exception, list the country as Soviet Union. AusLondonder (talk) 08:07, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
England - per Martinevans123 above. Giving Corbyn's pob as 'Chippenham, Wiltshire, England' provides the reader with more information than 'Chippenham, Wiltshire, United Kingdom'.
...And less than 'Chippenham, England, United Kingdom' Wykx 11:30, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
I tend to be of the opinion that whatever country the article stated originally is the one that should stand. I note that David Cameron's birthplace is in the United Kingdom, but Ed Miliband's is in England. We need to develop a consensus on how to present the information as the argument about the UK and her constituent countries is one oft visited. This is Paul (talk) 19:18, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
I've been around long enough to know, we'll never get a consensus to use United Kingdom across all British bio articles infoboxes. It's likely that these things will need to be handled article-by-article. IMHO, we should use 'United Kingdom' here. GoodDay (talk) 19:25, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
You have a good point, particularly when it comes to Scotland and Northern Ireland. I am tempted to suggest we could use UK since we're talking about a politician at UK level, but again that couldn't be applied to everyone in the Commons, Alex Salmond for example, who is a member of the UK's third largest parliamentary party, but who would regard himself as having been born in Scotland rather than the UK. This is Paul (talk) 19:34, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
If it were up to me, I'd have Salmond's birthplace changed to 'United Kingdom', aswell. Now that he's a member of the British Parliament. But, that's a discussion for that bio article. GoodDay (talk) 19:37, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
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