Talk:Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 19:42, 15 March 2016 editTobby72 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users37,876 edits comment← Previous edit		Revision as of 19:19, 18 March 2016 edit undoKalidasa 777 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users2,809 edits →Opinion study Next edit →
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	*This indeed was discussed a lot. One should simply check talk page archives. There are many different opinions and no consensus for inclusion. I do not think any polls should be included here at all. The opinion polls are only informative if conducted in countries were public was informed about the subject of the poll, with the freedom of information and discussion. This is not the case in Crimea. There is no any freedom of information out there, people disappear or arbitrary arrested and convicted. And it does not really matter which organization conducted the poll. For example, the opinion polls during ] would be informative and deserve inclusion, but the polls in North Korea would not. Here is more like the latter. ] (]) 15:54, 15 March 2016 (UTC)		*This indeed was discussed a lot. One should simply check talk page archives. There are many different opinions and no consensus for inclusion. I do not think any polls should be included here at all. The opinion polls are only informative if conducted in countries were public was informed about the subject of the poll, with the freedom of information and discussion. This is not the case in Crimea. There is no any freedom of information out there, people disappear or arbitrary arrested and convicted. And it does not really matter which organization conducted the poll. For example, the opinion polls during ] would be informative and deserve inclusion, but the polls in North Korea would not. Here is more like the latter. ] (]) 15:54, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

			::The opinion of the local population is a crucial point. Sourced information about it should not be excluded from WP. ] (]) 19:19, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of 2014 Crimean crisis was copied or moved into Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation with this edit on 10 March 2015. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Critique of the Thesis of an Annexation

Two German Scholars of International Law Reinhard Merkel and Gregor Schirmer disagree with the Thesis of an Annexation.--Jonathan van Arsendom (talk) 18:48, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Sigh. Another brand new account. Same old crap. Would that be the Gregor Schirmer who was one of the top dogs in the East German communist party before the fall of the Berlin Wall? Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:19, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Why do we refer to any scholars/articles when more than 90% of the population of Crimea do not consider the Rejoin with Russia as an annexation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.42.207.74 (talk) 11:37, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

And you know this for a fact because... you live elsewhere and follow RT(?). This is why comments from an anonymous IP completely undermine any pretensions to speaking from authority. You've given away where you are, and it certainly isn't Crimea... and that's why we follow reliable sources instead of WP:POV opinions. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:35, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

This article reads like propaganda

The mention of the referendum as "disputed" and "unconstitutional", buried deep within the opening paragraph, makes the article look silly. You might consider balancing it by mentioning that the coup d'etat in Ukraine which provoked the secession of Crimea was also "disputed" and "unconstitutional". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erin Bisson (talk • contribs) 17:31, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

It was indeed unconstitutional and declared invalid by United Nations General Assembly resolution, but I agree that it reads biased. Unfortunately, highly controversial subjects, such as that one, are difficult to fix in intro that must be very brief. My very best wishes (talk) 16:09, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

The main issue here is the military invasion and occupation of a part of Ukraine by Putin-Russia, universally condemned and "having no validity" in the words of a UN resolution. A faux and completely undemocratic "referendum" not recognised by the government of the country in question (Ukraine), or anyone else save the Putin regime, is not the main issue, and belongs somewhere below in the introduction, as is currently the case. --Tataral (talk) 02:36, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

2014 Russian take down of the Verkhovna Rada of Crimea

RGloucester, the article is not a duplicate. The take down of Verkhovna Rada was an important operation which is an anchor of many other events surrounding the further annexation. It also was not simply an administrative action, but rather involved quite a number of military personnel. I believe the article is more important than the 2014 Simferopol incident (the article name so ambiguous) and it needs to be expanded. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 14:36, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

The article's content is already contained here (including all the content about the "military action"), and anything that isn't here can be incorporated. There is no need for a separate duplicate article, which will simply confused the reader. That's not to mention that the title of that article is a nonsense. We don't need evermore content forks in the Ukrainian crisis topic space. This has been a real problem. I have never liked the "Simferopol incident" article, but that's not what we're discussing here. This new content fork needs to be merged. RGloucester — ☎ 15:59, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

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Correct x 1 + 404 captures only for x 1 ref, so removed and added 'cbignore'. Thanks, Cyberbot II. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 02:31, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Opinion study

I have restored the sentence about the opinion study. I think it is relevant and sourced as well as confirms the widespread opinion that while the Crimean referendum was falsified the majority of the population supports the annexation. If there is a criticism of the study or other contradicting sources on the population opinion I would rather include them then exclude the study.

I have also exclude Trolls from Olgino from "see also" section as I do not see the direct relevance. Alex Bakharev (talk) 01:57, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

@Alex Bakharev: The polls have been discussed ad infinitum if you care to check the archives here and on multiple other articles that deal with the annexation. For the last couple of years, Tobby72 has been POV pushing the same content over and over and over and over and over against consensus. Personally, I've had all I can take of his disruptive editing and intentional gaming. Much as I hate to have to trawl through the multiple NPOVN, RSN and other talk pages in order to find the diffs, it looks as if I'm going to have to do so. Enough is enough is ENOUGH. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:05, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

No consensus to delete. This has been discussed many times in past, see diff or Long-term pattern of tag-teaming ... -- Tobby72 (talk) 19:42, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm in favor of restoring the sentence. The poll is much more relevant than much of the article, for example, the sentence starting with the words "Another report by Evgeny Bobrov". Cause this is an actual poll, and the sentence I've mentioned as an example is just random calculations based on hearsay and speculations by some random people the author met. --Moscow Connection (talk) 12:03, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

This indeed was discussed a lot. One should simply check talk page archives. There are many different opinions and no consensus for inclusion. I do not think any polls should be included here at all. The opinion polls are only informative if conducted in countries were public was informed about the subject of the poll, with the freedom of information and discussion. This is not the case in Crimea. There is no any freedom of information out there, people disappear or arbitrary arrested and convicted. And it does not really matter which organization conducted the poll. For example, the opinion polls during Scottish independence referendum, 2014 would be informative and deserve inclusion, but the polls in North Korea would not. Here is more like the latter. My very best wishes (talk) 15:54, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

The opinion of the local population is a crucial point. Sourced information about it should not be excluded from WP. Kalidasa 777 (talk) 19:19, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

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