| Revision as of 19:54, 7 April 2016 editNishidani (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users99,544 edits →Do we need to add a mistaken opinion by a non-specialist on an issue like the impact of Korean movable type?← Previous edit | Revision as of 20:15, 7 April 2016 edit undoNishidani (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users99,544 edits →Do we need to add a mistaken opinion by a non-specialist on an issue like the impact of Korean movable type?Next edit → | ||
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| :I've removed this nonsense (scholastic!!!! oh really!) as well, the author clearly knows nothing of the history of printing in Japan. | :I've removed this nonsense (scholastic!!!! oh really!) as well, the author clearly knows nothing of the history of printing in Japan. | ||
| :<blockquote>According to the historian Ha Woobong, "the metal and wooden printing types taken from Korea laid the basis for the printing technology of the Edo Period in Japan and the development of scholastic learning."(Ha Woobong, "The Japanese Invasion of Korea in the 1592-1598 Period and the Exchange of Culture and Civilization Between the Two Countries," in The Foreseen and the Unforeseen in Historical Relations Between Korea and Japan, eds. Northeast Asian History Foundation (Seoul: Northeast Asian History Foundation, 2009), 228-229.)] (]) 19:51, 7 April 2016 (UTC)</blockquote> | :<blockquote>According to the historian Ha Woobong, "the metal and wooden printing types taken from Korea laid the basis for the printing technology of the Edo Period in Japan and the development of scholastic learning."(Ha Woobong, "The Japanese Invasion of Korea in the 1592-1598 Period and the Exchange of Culture and Civilization Between the Two Countries," in The Foreseen and the Unforeseen in Historical Relations Between Korea and Japan, eds. Northeast Asian History Foundation (Seoul: Northeast Asian History Foundation, 2009), 228-229.)] (]) 19:51, 7 April 2016 (UTC)</blockquote> | ||
| ::Well drop a note to Ha Woobong and tell him movable metal printing was dropped as too expensive after a few decades in Japan, and the book industry thereafter used woodblocks, as had Buddhist monasteries since the 9th century in Japan, a technology developed under the Sui in China.] (]) 20:15, 7 April 2016 (UTC) | |||
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Don 't quote 'stuff' because it backs a prejudice (confirmation bias). Understand the subject first.
TH1980 you added this nonsense: "Japan's present exuberant publishing industry can be traced back to the Edo period when Korean influence was instrumental to its flourishing It is reliably printed but I removed this telling you to ‘Learn to paraphrase the text correctly’.
By that I meant that if you reread the text (a) you would realize it was stupid (b) and by citing it you are indicating you know nothing of the topic since even if construed correctly to intuit the author’s intent, it happens to be silly.
The text as it stands implies that Korean influence from 1590s ‘was instrumental’ for a few decades accounts for the 'flourishing of (its=) Japan’s present exuberant publishing industry’. First of all that is plain dumb, and secondly false. Woodblock printing was far more important for the rise in Edo literacy and book consumption.Nishidani (talk) 13:07, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- I know what I am talking about. Etsuko Kang is hardly alone in understanding the role of Korean printing in Japanese publishing. I noticed also that historian Ha Woobong wrote an entire essay about the huge influence of Korean printing on Japanese printing during the Edo period. I will agree to include Machi Senjuro's opinion, but ultimately we should just begin by saying "According to Machi Senjuro", not "In fact", at the start of the sentence. Etsuko Kang and Ha Woobong represent the dominant point of view, and we should not put the words "in fact" in front of the minority point of view from an essay that only mentions Korean influence incidentally on one or two pages.TH1980 (talk) 19:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
- You have a long history of getting most edits wrong on several articles. What you can't perceive is that this subject is not supposed to be a rehash of the petty, ridiculous, fatuous rewriting of history by nationalists, Korean or Japanese. I only added Machi to show how silly Kang's remark on that was (her book is generally very informative, she wrote a sentence that is ridiculous in its implications which you use, not understanding how dumb it is). I'm minded to remove both Kang and Machi, but have no hurry. That you can read nonsense and take it seriously indicates that you know nothing of the topic. Moveable metal type once introduced quickly revealed its inadequacies for large scale publishing to cater for the merchant class and growing urban world of Edo Japan. It only worked with short print runs, and it was for that reason that the Japanese publishing industry reverted to woodblock printing as the dominant technology right down to the end of the Tokugawa period. Since you don't know that, you allow yourself to be convinced by a stray sentence or a silly nationalist. The Japanese book industry flourished because of woodblocks, not moveable type (until Western technology led to innovations in late Tokugawa early Meiji times) The dominant point of view is that of Peter Kornicki and numerous other serious scholars of the subject.Nishidani (talk) 20:45, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Do we need to add a mistaken opinion by a non-specialist on an issue like the impact of Korean movable type?
In my view, Etsuko Kang, though RS, is making a patently misleading indeed demonstrably incorrect assertion when she is quoted as saying what we have below. I glossed it with a more accurate account for a while, but obviously the piece is there because it backs a nationalist misperception, not because it is relevant to the historical facts. If anyone disagrees please discuss here.
Etsuko Kang claims that, "Japan's present exuberant publishing industry can be traced back to the Edo period when Korean influence was instrumental to its flourishing."In fact, the qualitative upsurge in Japanese reading, dated to around 1630 onwards, was related to the spread of woodblock printing, which, as opposed to metal-type printing of books in both Korea and Vietnamese, allowed for stable texts accessible to many because reading marks were added, that enabled Chinese style texts to be read as though they were Japanese.Nishidani (talk) 07:22, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- Etsuko Hae-Jin Kang, Diplomacy and Ideology in Japanese-Korean Relations: From the Fifteenth to the Eighteenth Century (1997) Springer reprint 2016 Diplomacy and Ideology in Japanese-Korean Relations: From the Fifteenth to the Eighteenth Century, (1997) Springer reprint 2016 p.108.
- Machi Senjurō, 'The Evolution of ‘Learning’ in Early Modern Japanese Medicine,’ in ,Matthias Hayek, Annick Horiuchi (eds.) Listen, Copy, Read: Popular Learning in Early Modern Japan, Rev.ed. BRILL, 2014 pp.163-203 pp.189ff p.191.
- The text quoted above amounts to WP:SYNTHESIS. A better solution would be to drop the disputed text. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:03, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- Only the part cited to Machi Senjuro was synthesis. The part about Korean influence on Japanese printing has been the subject of whole essays. Ha Woobong has contributed a number of peer reviewed studies on this very subject, and he's no nationalist either. The particular essay that I am citing came from a previous version of the article, but it's just one example of the same information.TH1980 (talk) 19:46, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- I've removed this nonsense (scholastic!!!! oh really!) as well, the author clearly knows nothing of the history of printing in Japan.
According to the historian Ha Woobong, "the metal and wooden printing types taken from Korea laid the basis for the printing technology of the Edo Period in Japan and the development of scholastic learning."(Ha Woobong, "The Japanese Invasion of Korea in the 1592-1598 Period and the Exchange of Culture and Civilization Between the Two Countries," in The Foreseen and the Unforeseen in Historical Relations Between Korea and Japan, eds. Northeast Asian History Foundation (Seoul: Northeast Asian History Foundation, 2009), 228-229.)Nishidani (talk) 19:51, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- Well drop a note to Ha Woobong and tell him movable metal printing was dropped as too expensive after a few decades in Japan, and the book industry thereafter used woodblocks, as had Buddhist monasteries since the 9th century in Japan, a technology developed under the Sui in China.Nishidani (talk) 20:15, 7 April 2016 (UTC)