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LED opposition to Schiavo?

I respectfully disagree with an anon's edits saying Wasserman Schultz has LED the opposition to the Schiavo case in Congress. I am a congressional reporter on Capitol Hill and I can tell you that she has not LED the opposition -- a freshman does not LEAD much of anything. Anyway, that being said, this anon clearly feels that she has, so I'd like to see proof that she has LED the opposition. I don't want to get into an edit war with anyone, but if the anon can't prove their statement I will once again change the edits. Katefan0 16:19, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

If not for the trio of South Florida representatives: Wasserman-Schultz, Davis, and Wexler, the measure to provide relief for Mrs. Schiavo would have passed by unamious consent. Wasserman Schultz decided to stand up and say NO. At the press conference on capitol hill, she was the second one to talk. She was the second speaker on the house floor to speak on her side. She was also the second-to-last speaker for her side, the last to speak before Whip Stoyer spoke. As a state legislator, Wasserman-Schultz had to deal with this case. Therefore, she provided fellow Democrats with appropriate evidence pertaining to the case. She impressed many, many democrats on message boards with her convincing remarks. She was the first representative to point out the hypocrpicy of the other side, by showing that when Bush was Gov. of Texas, he signed a law allowing for termination of life, even over the objections of parents.

I know she's a freshman. That's what made her actions to lead the opposition so memorable. She was on all three news networks speaking. Debbie Wasserman Schultz had the courage to lead the fight against DeLay's measure when most were afraid to do so. justy329

• (Looks like Justy329 is the same as the anon user.) Respectfully, once again, this does not prove that she was the LEAD. There were many people who spoke against the bill, many people who issued press releases and held press conferences (who were more senior than her) and spoke about the issue. I am unconvinced. I also question how unbiased you can be about this article, since you have inserted several POV statements (which I have removed), not to mention these two links to movie files of her speaking that you added today. Katefan0 20:10, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)
  • I have added a Request for Comments from other Misplaced Pages users on the RFC page. Katefan0 20:46, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

This article shows how Debbie led the fight against Congress' tactics to intervene in Schiavo case: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-cwasser22mar22,0,5767540.story?coll=sfla-news-sfla I kindly request you remove npov tag. Thanks

• • That's better than nothing, but I am still not convinced. The Sun-Sentinel is covering this story as a local paper would. Papers without a national reach often play up the involvement of their local delegation because that's what their readers want to read about. Show me a national story that says she led the opposition and I would remove my objections. Also, can you please sign your comments? It's easy, just type the tilde sign four times and it will fill in everything for you. Thanks. Otherwise it gets confusing. One more thing -- you never answered me, but are you on her staff or otherwise involved with her office? Katefan0 21:48, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

• • Debbie Wasserman Schultz has been the face of the few Democrats willing to stand up against DeLay's tactis. She has been on Today, FoxNews, CNN, and MSNBC. Debbie was the only speaker except for those managing the debate to SPEAK TWICE DURING THE SPECIAL SCHIAVO SESSION. Is the Miami Herald a "national newspaper?" http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11196972.htm

Read this: "Sitting in the drive-through lane of a McDonald's in Washington, D.C., U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz was still fuming Monday over Congress' intervention in the case of Terri Schiavo.

During three hours of debate late Sunday night, the freshman Democrat distinguished herself by repeatedly challenging those who tried to misstate the facts surrounding Schiavo's health."

Debbie has been one of the few Democrats quoted in the New York Times about this matter. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/22/national/22bush.html

I do not work for Debbie or her staff. I just happen to be a political junkie. Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a rising star. History will remember it was her leadership, knowledge and "chutzpah" during the Schiavo affair that catapulted her fame and influence. --24.184.16.201 23:03, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Normally I'd say yes, Miami is a national paper, but since this is happening in Florida I'd say in this instance, not really. Would prefer to see a big non-Florida paper that refers to her as "having led the opposition." I agree that she's been a strong VOICE in the debate, but the leading one? Her fuming in the drivethru, speaking twice during the session, being quoted in the NYT etc., doesn't make her the lead on the issue, because other people have done the same. Anyway, but I would support a sentence something like: "WS was heavily involved in protesting Congressional involvement in the Schiavo case, including..." and then cite some of the things she did that are pretty ballsy for a freshman. Can you live with that? Katefan0 23:10, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

• • I added this quote from the Miami Herald, "During three hours of debate late Sunday night, the freshman Democrat distinguished herself by repeatedly challenging those who tried to misstate the facts surrounding Schiavo's health." If you wish, you may remove the word "led" and remove the NPOV tag. Make I ask why you are so commited to this Debbie Wasserman Schultz page? --24.184.16.201 23:14, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• • • Beyond a general desire to have Misplaced Pages be the best, most trustworthy source of information it can be, I suppose because I'm the one who created the page originally. I'm also a reporter who covers Congress for a living so this is my bread 'n butter. Thanks for being a good sport while we've debated. I agree that WS so far has been impressive for a freshman, but I am committed to the article remaining unbiased. Also if at some point you come across some source material that says she led the debate, I'd want the page to reflect that. Katefan0 23:20, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

• • I thank you for contributing to this site. I actually set up a whole page devoted to Debbie, also. I thought her real name was "Debra." So, if you check the history, you will find a few months ago that LOTS of information was added to merge the two article into the correct one we have today. In any event, I will go ahead and make the changes we agreed on. --24.184.16.201 23:26, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Experience not clear

How many years and terms of experience in congress does she have?????-65.170.106.249 —Preceding undated comment added 17:56, 20 February 2007‎

30 something working group

Instead of a text dump from their website (which could be considered a copyvio), I added a link to the site for anyone interested enough to find out more on their own, and paraphrased what the working group is about. Katefan0 17:16, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

• • Thanks for that. I just corrected that the 30 something group is more about just Social Security, it talks about issues facing younger people in general. --24.184.16.201 17:57, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • I don't mean to sound like a bitch, but almost every substantial addition you make to this article seems to have some sort of POV problem; I think you are too close to this person to be neutral perhaps. Just something to think about. I have an issue with this statement:

" Veiled negative references to Wasserman Schultz's Judaism. "?!

This piece says "her opponent Margaret Hostetter made veiled negative references to Wasserman Schultz's Judaism. "

But what exactly were those 'veiled references'?? You know, it wasn't too long ago that a Washingtonian got fired for making racist comments when all he did was use the word 'niggardly'!!

You should either SPELL OUT the supposed anti-semetic comments and let the reader decide or leave this charge out. It seems very 'smeary' to Margaret Hostetter, not entirely relevant to the article and lacking any verifiability. - 04:55, 14 September 2005 BigDaddy777 (talk)

Hearing on Limits of Executive Power: Debbie W. Schultz

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz's questions during the House Judiciary Committee hearing on the constitutional limits of executive power. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQScXo7lawQ&feature=related Oversight by the congress in the first 6 years was noted for its absence. Presidential signing statements, and provisions of law, have been close to 1100 and interpreting law. A line item veto in government. Historical context. Unpresidented use in volume and audacity. Impeachment is a remedy and also the withholding of appropriations. Bruce Fein suggests control through the purse. - 08:48, 27 July 2008 RoddyYoung (talk)

Issues: Chair of the Democratic National Committee

It has come to my attention that this section of the article has several issues. I don't believe that neutrality has been established here. Please discuss the problems below: -TheCaliforniaKansan (talk) 07:10, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

As noted on my talk page, I recently reached the same conclusion about overall NPOV that you mention above, but that's not the issue here. The immediate issue is the contested addition of a paragraph that, even without the BLP issues, needs to achieve consensus under BRD. The fact that these are contentious BLP claims clearly not supported by a reading of any of the listed reliable sources makes their removal mandatory. Cleaning up the rest of the section is a longer effort.

ETA: Again copying from my talk page to expand on the "clearly not supported" description: While an op-ed by an aggrieved candidate is not a reliable source, the others would be – if they actually said anything like what was added. Which they don't. For starters, it's highly unlikely, even before reading them, that Huffington Post and Guardian writers were so prescient as to be able to criticize her fall 2015 actions in articles written in 2011 and 2012. And, not surprisingly, reading the articles shows that they didn't. Similarly, I find no mention of Chuck Todd calling for her resignation in the Daily Kos article cited for that claim, and no evidence that Hillary Clinton criticized her for anything, let alone supposed mistreatment claimed by Lessig, in the Washington Post article. I acknowledge not having listened to the entire 47 minute NYT interview with Obama on the Iran nuclear agreement, but given the lack of accuracy in the other citations, the actual topic of the interview, and the absence of any mention of Wasserman Schultz in the NYT's article covering the interview, there is scant reason to find that claim any more credible than the others.

2600:1006:B161:D0D4:DDF:6999:A965:B6F6 (talk) 07:39, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Can you quickly specify BLP and NPOV? --TheCaliforniaKansan (talk) 07:41, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I don't understand exactly what you're asking. Can you clarify please? 2600:1006:B161:D0D4:DDF:6999:A965:B6F6 (talk) 07:56, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Never mind, neutral point of view and bibliography of living persons -TheCaliforniaKansan (talk) 07:59, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

From my NPOV, I believe that the specified section needs subsections, such as "Controversies" or "Criticisms." Again, I do agree with you that part of the section is op-ed-like. Can you revise without removing all the information? -TheCaliforniaKansan (talk) 08:02, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Even though you'll see them peppered throughout the project, "Criticism" and "Controversy" sections are somewhat deprecated (not sure if it's a guideline or an essay) as magnets for non-neutral additions.

As to the Lessig paragraph, it's not that it reads like an op-ed; it's entirely based on an op-ed written by Lessig himself. This type of advocacy piece is not considered RS for a BLP (and most likely not for facts in general). With none of the other sources even mentioning the issue, there's not really a lot to salvage. Unless someone comes up with some secondary coverage of the "dispute", that paragraph really has to go. 2600:1006:B161:D0D4:DDF:6999:A965:B6F6 (talk) 08:18, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

I have removed the information. The IP makes a good point that sources from 12 can not support information about 15. Gain consensus before adding again. -- GB fan 09:03, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Controversy Section

The entire section desperately needs a rewrite. It reads like an angry editorial against Wasserman Schultz and her role in the 2016 Primary. For example: "Debbie Wasserman Schultz has not only abused the power of her office to stack the deck for her favored candidate, but has overwhelmingly failed as leader of the DNC. In addition to losing the 2014 midterm elections for both U.S. House and U.S. Senate seats, Schultz has also run her party’s finances into the ground."

As it stands, there is no way this section passes neutrality requirements.

Much of the controversy section is covered in the section about her tenure as Chair of the DNC and I would recommend further consolidating it down.

Thoughts?

Fish nr (talk) 19:12, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Fish nr, I concur that the section needs to be reworked, for the following reasons: a) it is a WP:COPYVIO taken essentially verbatim from this source; b) it is WP:UNDUE-ly detailed for a biography; c) to the point of being a WP:COATRACK; d) therefore failing WP:NPOV; e) and consequently failing WP:BLP.
On the basis of these issues, I am removing the section. Editors wishing to include a section on this subject, should develop phrasing which does not fail the policies & guidelines listed. - Ryk72 23:17, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

I agree, I recommended reducing and neutralizing the content, but thanks to Ryk72 it is clear that the whole section is a copyright violation, so the only possible option is deleting it as he did. --Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 23:43, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Ryk72 for tracking that down. --Fish nr (talk) 07:01, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Allegations that Obama attempted to fire her

Can someone add verbiage to the section saying that anonymous sources on politico reported that Obama was going to try to fire her but was deterred from doing so by threats of calling him misogynistic and anti-semetic? This allegation needs context. Most importantly the information that the chair of the DNC is not appointed by the sitting president so that Obama does not have the power to fire her. A short explanation of how the DNC chairperson is selected ( by vote of the 440+ member democratic national committee ) goes a long way to deflating that conspiracy theory.

Also noting that the shape of the accusation is archetypal of complaints about political correctness would be nice as well. Insisting without evidence that a woman or minority is incompetent and then explaining their position as being held under threat of being called a bigot is a stock scaremongering story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SaikenW (talk • contribs) 19:08, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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CHAIR or CHAIRPERSON

Why are we having inconsistency on these recent DNC & RNC leaders? Some are using chairperson & yet only chair is being pushed here. GoodDay (talk) 02:37, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

So use "Chaiperson" or "Chair" depending on what their actual title is. Chairman/woman (which you're reinstating against consensus here) is not correct - it's not their actual title, and it violates the MOS. Fyddlestix (talk) 02:43, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

I changed it to Chairperson & yet you still reverted. Also, why have you Chairman in the Tim Kaine article & Chairperson in the Donna Brazile article? GoodDay (talk) 02:47, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

I oppose "Chairperson" for Schultz because that is not, and never has been, her actual job title. Per pretty much every RS, she is the Chair of the DNC. Fyddlestix (talk) 02:52, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Why haven't you done the same for Kaine & Brazile? GoodDay (talk) 02:52, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't watch and have never edited those articles so that's neither here nor there - but I'd caution you about assuming that this needs to be consistent across every article. Different individuals and orgs use different terms, we should go with what their actual title is and with what the RS say in each individual case. Fyddlestix (talk) 02:57, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

I concur with Fyddlestix in this. This is actually a subtle issue. WP:MOS says we should use the form used most in reliable sources; if it's a tie, use the form preferred by the individual or group. I think "chair" is the common term for Schultz and "chairman" is the common title for Reince Priebus in media sources. I would like to see evidence of this, though, and welcome evidence contradicting this. GRR edit conflicts! MisterRandomized (talk) 02:58, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Why is Dean a Chair, Kaine a Chairman, Brazile a Chairperson & Schultz a Chair? GoodDay (talk) 03:03, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

I've made changes to the Dean, Kaine & Brazile bio articles. In hopes of bringing consistency to these articles. GoodDay (talk) 03:09, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

I would again caution you against assuming that consistency is the goal - maybe Kaine is described as "chairman" because that's how reliable sources like President Obama and the New York Times described him, and the title that he actually used? The same is not true for Schultz. You need to have some flexibility here. Fyddlestix (talk) 03:15, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, if reliable sources are inconsistent, and predominantly used "chair" for Schultz and "chairman" for Kaine, we need to follow the sources. I enjoy consistency too, and hate the word "chairperson," but policy takes precedence, and we should follow common usage, at least where there is a most common form. MisterRandomized (talk) 03:39, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

DNC Leak dump shows this page edited by DNC

https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/13236 - Not much else to add, but we should be vigilant about neutrality. q (talk) 04:34, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

BLP issues

The info removed here does not have sufficient sourcing nor is it appropriate, per WP:DUEWEIGHT, for a BLP. People file frivolous lawsuits all the time. If something actually happens with these lawsuits, then we can put this in.Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:54, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

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