Misplaced Pages

Johann Wolfgang [ T ...C ]

04:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

These links might interest you.

- Ganeshk (talk) 06:34, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Open tasks in History of India project

Just to update you on the current status of the project, here's a list of the current open tasks. Please contribute towards completing them, and feel free to add more to this list. deeptrivia (talk) 04:22, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the Indo-Greek Page

Hello Vastu,

Thank you for raising the topic of the map of the Indo-Greek kingdom with PHG. I have also been concerned about the possible misrepresentation of it (i.e. extent, whether Demetrius of Bactria was even on that side of Hindu Kush, etc)and have previously discussed it with him. While there is a dearth of maps online, the maps that I have seen in books to-date have been more conservative in treatment (at best utilizing arrows to denote the campaigns of Menander--which were not lasting), and rightfully so. There is, after all, very little certainty that we can apply to this period, and thus, this warrants cautious treatment and not wishful thinking. The main contributor to the page appears insistent on maximizing all possible Greek conquests and contributions on the subcontinent. While they undoubtedly had possessions in parts of South Asia (Afghanistan and the Trans-Indus) and contributions (coinage and art), even the recognized scholar in this subject would not treat the extent of these holdings with such certainty, dotted line or not (last I checked, Sassanid maps don't go to right upto the outskirts of Constantinople). I noticed that your correspondence with him ended about a month ago, but I do think this issue should be raised once more, as his map has been disseminated throughout the web. After all, this map isn't even a recognized one in the academic world, but one amateur historian's take on what kingdom looked like. Moreover, you will note that there is an insistence on reducing the domains of the Sungas even when there are literary references (which this contributor selectively relies on) and archeological evidence (inscriptions in Jalandhar) to point out periodic Sunga rule upto the Indus. Let me know what you think.

Regards,

Devanampriya

I agree with you, I was not very happy with his final deicision. If an Indo-Greek state had ruled that much of north India for a notable time, and not simply held it briefly in some territorial war, we would today no doubt have hellenic ruins scattered across India and Pakistan - yet the most there is is a couple of shrines. The historical sources that he has claimed are being taken at face value by PHG, when that period of history was not exactly well recorded, even by the Greeks. I think the Indo-Greek kingdom's borders were more along the lines of the Greco-Bactrian kingdom. Most importantly, while I am no cultural chauvenist, I find it annoying that his bold-border map has now circulated the internet and influenced many people into thinking India was dominated by some Hellenic state, when the reality is they havent left much more cultural impact than would have been gathered through trade. I support whatever you wish to do about it. It would be a good argument if you could describe the more conservative maps you have seen in hsitory books, and perhaps argue that a think lined border gives totally the worng impression when such books mearly mark vague campaigns - if you could scan a map from a book, that would be ideal Vastu 00:02, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Mauryan dates

Hello,
What source is being used for the dates of the Mauryan Empire and its emperors' reigns?

Because Roger Boesche gives dates shifted four or five years later than those that appear in Misplaced Pages, i.e. Chandragupta Maurya (c. 317–293 BCE), Bindusara (c. 293–268 BCE) and Aśoka (c. 268–232 BCE).

Regards
CiteCop 01:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Devanampriya,

Thank you for your reply. (I'm totally digging your username by the way. Who better to ask about Mauryan dating than Devanampriya?) As luck has it, you happened to reply while I was in a library which has several of Kosambi's books. Here's what he says:

Kulke and Rothermund concur with Kosambi's date for Candragupta Maurya's accession.

However, the dates Kulke and Rothermund give for the reigns of Bindusāra and Aśoka agree with Boesche's.

What concerns me is that the works of Boesche and Kulke & Rothermund are more recent. The third edition of Kulke & Rothermund's History of India was published in 1998 and Boesche's work on the subject was published over 2002 and 2003.

Was there any development in the scholarship of Mauryan history since Kosambi that would have pushed the dates for the reigns of Bindusāra and Aśoka forward by four or five years?

Thank you again and best wishes,

CiteCop 03:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

P.S. John Marshall, writing in 1951, dates Bindusāra's

Hello Citecop,

   Thanks for the compliment. I must admit, I am a little enamored with the username myself. Anyhow, to answer your question, I presently am not aware of any such recent development. As you may know, it is often very difficult to construct a definite chronology in the annals of Indian history. Unfortunately, I no longer have ready access to sizeable libraries to do some research at this stage.  Perhaps at a later date I could do this topic more justice.  Based up on what I've read in Thapar's, Shastri's, and Kosambi's works though, that date seems the way to go. I think the date of 317 might be more appropriate for the Indian reconquest of Taxila (which you already have on the article). Seems like you have all of that and the macedonian denouement in Taxila documented in the article as well.
   An avenue to consider however, would be to refer to the works of Klaus Karttunen. I contacted a professor of Sanskrit and Indic studies a little while back to see if he could clarify some questions I had. He referred me to Klaus Karttunen, a finnish scholar, who is considered to currently be the foremost scholar on the greeks in India. Since you have access to what appears to be a research university library (seems like you're either a student or professor--if the latter, I apologize for my temerity), you might want to refer to "India and the Hellenistic World". It's a relatively recent work having been published in 1997. This might be of more help.  

Regards,

Devanampriya

Maurya Empire

Hi Devanampriya. I appreciate your contributions and editing, but please do not delete referenced material by well-known scholarly sources. Should you wish to balance their view with other scolarly material, you are very welcome. But please do not delete them just because you have different opinions. At Misplaced Pages, we are not supposed to decide what the truth is, rather we should report what various studies have been done on a given subject, and then let the reader decide for himself. Regards PHG 06:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Devanampriya. Very simply: it is not for us to decide which theory is right or wrong. A published analysis by a major writer has the right to be mentionned in a Misplaced Pages article, whether we like it or not, or whether we doubt its historical factuality. There is a great way for you to react to something you think is biased: do not erase the quote, or the reference (because it will still exist to the end of time), but do describe alternative theories and references. Most of the time, history is about a debate of opinions and interpretations, based on slim facts and clues fading into the past. Regards PHG 07:56, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

You are in danger, if you haven't already done it, of violating the WP:3RR. Also, remember that removing sourced material is considered vandalism. Now it's up to you to chose: respect the rules, or continue breaking them and pay the consequences (that is, getting blocked).--Aldux 16:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)