Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Lithuania: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 18:24, 12 September 2006 editLysy (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers21,125 edits →Naming of towns ← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:26, 12 September 2006 edit undoLysy (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers21,125 edits →Naming of towns: moved section to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Lithuania/Conflict resolution per requestNext edit →
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	:Maybe we should categorize towns/vllages not by county but by district (and these by counties)? This would be more appropriate IMO.--] 16:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)		:Maybe we should categorize towns/vllages not by county but by district (and these by counties)? This would be more appropriate IMO.--] 16:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
	::I think it's over-categorizing. Counties work just fine right now. ] 16:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)		::I think it's over-categorizing. Counties work just fine right now. ] 16:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

	==Naming of towns==
	I have a question and a request of you. Please note that ] notes ''Augustavas'', ] notes ''Sejny'', . ] will note German ''Settin'', ] will note German ''Teschen'' and Czech ''Těšín'', ''Białystok'' will note Belarusian ''Беласток (Biełastok)'', Lithuanian ''Balstogė'', and even Yiddish ''ביאַליסטאָק''. All Polish cities follow the proposed ], which allows the use in lead of other well known and popular names, and there are no conflicts if sb want's to add a (used, popular, historical) name. And non only Polish cities follow that rule: Latvian ] has Russian and Lithuanian, ] has German, Lithuanian, Russian and Polish spellings, ] notes Polish ''Kircholm'', Belarusian ] notes both Polish ''Grodno'' and Lithuanian ''Gardinas'', ] lists Russian, Lithuanian and Polish too, Russian ] has Polish ''Kłuszyn...''. This is even followed outside of our little part of the world: ] (French) has German ''Straßburg''. Therefore one would reasonably expect that if a city was called with a Polish name for several centuries (as most Lithuanian cities were in the times of the PLC) and that name would be relativly popular in English publication (Google Print search) we would note that in the article; same with German or Belarusian or Russian or other applicable names. Yet in vain one can look for a mention of ''Wilno'' in ], ''Troki'' in ''Trakai'', or ''Kowno'' in ], ''Kłajpeda'' in ], even through the Polish names are commonly used in English texts about history of that region (, and especially compare vs ). I understand capitals are a special case, and the reference to ] is good style, I ask for nothing more in this case. But please tell me (this is my question) why are Polish, Belarusian, German and other names often removed from articles about Lithuanian cities (, , ). No edit summaries, no explanation - just removal from the article any mention that it used to have a Polish (or other names). A cursory Google Print search will show that often those names are very popular, thus they should be used if for no other reason that to avoid confusion when a person unfamiliar with geography and history of Europe types, let's say, ], into our search engines and finds himself at ] with no explanation for name change... Therefore my request is to think if having foreign names is really so irritiating, and if you could yourself restore relevant names to articles that are now missing them. And please note I am not asking for anything exceptional, but rather for what is normal on Wiki - and note that the glaring difference between the Wiki customs and practice in Lithuanian cities simply looks strange and raises some eyebrows. Thank you, --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</span></sub> 15:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

	:My oppinion is presented in the ] and it is thought to be clear for everybody. I support attempts to remove alternative names from the lead (except some specific cases) in general. This way, i support the same action when it's done by, say , Dr. Dan. I also see the bad sides of the remowing, especially when alternative information isn't inserted in exchange. Just one thing may be seen to be strange here: The same Dr. Dan has evidently different reasons, removing the names, than the mine. His reasons seem to concern a keeping of equality between Poland and Lithuania or something similar. Looking formally every reason to participate in the Misplaced Pages is welcomed but not every action. Looking however more deeply the reasons, that are far from the goals of Misplaced Pages, often raise something like barriers in our work. It's impossible to segregate users, but we can see some results of such "pollution". The whole month we discuss complexes of the opponent more and more, not taking in account many things that are important here in Misplaced Pages. By the way, our complexes are personal not collective, especially when not everybody in our teams is a Lithuanian / a Pole. ] 16:28, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

	P. S. I support moving this discussion to some other place. ]

	Well, let's move it away, because it seems this gonna take some time to discuss this matter, and it is gonna simply disturb normal work rythm of a project talk page.--] 16:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
	:As I believe it is not releated to the conflict issue (this is an enyclopedic content issue), I don't think it should be moved; this is an important issue that should be debated by the members of the Lithuanian WikiProject (as it was some of their members who have been most active removing the alternative names and thus creating an exception to the Wiki customs).--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]\|]</span></sub> 16:48, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
	:: at least mine answer you will find in different location (sooner or later), I also urge other editors answer there also. ] 17:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

	I on the other hand would support having the alternative (including foreign, where applicable) names mentioned in the lead. I think it is informative and does no harm. It would be of course different if someone tried to rename the article from say Vilnius to Wilno. I, too, would be interested to learn why the foreign names are removed from the articles of Lithuanian towns. --]<sup>]</sup> 17:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
	::Lysy, take a better look in Vilnius article lead. ] 17:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
	:::Sincerely, I would like to know the answer to the question posed. Maybe you need to ask the question yourself ? Sadly, no answer is an answer as well. --]<sup>]</sup> 18:24, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:26, 12 September 2006

New topic - new section please. It would be much easier to communicate and not mix things.

Lithuania-myth-stub

IMO it is needed, because there are about 50-60 stubs, that in my opiniuon are deadends, and now they clog up Lithuania-stub place, and are only relatively related to it.--Lokyz 14:42, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's one thing... I really believe all those stubs should be merged into one article/list because 95% of them are destined to be stubs forever (just there is no info about those reconstructed deities) and all of them have dubious claims. It would be much easier to find out any wrong statements in one big list than in 60 sub-stubs.

If merged, mythology stub is not needed. Renata 17:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration of the week

is it needed, will someone participate?--Lokyz 14:57, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe it's a bit too early for that. First, let's get the whole project up and going. It's a good idea, but now right now and right here. Let's better think what is needed for the project to become alive? Here are some thoughts:

Category tree to explain/plan future categories
Article index - list of all existing articles about Lithuania and what needs to be done to them; at the same time articles could be assessed (stub-ok-featured; not important-very important). I might attempt to compile the list of articles (more or less from my watchlist)
Article talk template - "this article is part of WikiProject Lithuania" (btw, P in wikiproject is capitalized)
Compilation of missing articles
Comprehensive resource page

That's just some basic ideas. Renata 17:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

also adding on going votes related with LT M.K.

So this is next step:) Anyone should free to edit/make this page structure better. For now it is as programmer call it - in early alpha. Altoug, I do have feeling it could become tool.

sorry I still not see vote issue, could you please point me directly; I do not find it :)M.K.

Discussions ... - if you need a separate section for vote add it, altough, IMO it would seem as a conspiracy untill this page is not official. We could mark this feature as a will be enabled out of beta. Would this satisfy you? because i'm not so eager to vote, I've stated it before.--Lokyz 21:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

eee... I mean to notify editors which article related with LT is going a vote procedures like Jogaila was and etc. i'm not so eager to vote, I've stated it before. -sorry but I did not recall this your statement, maybe I missed some issues...M.K. 21:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Tasks for the weekend

So, let's decide what we are going to do over the weekend.

First, I think, we need to decide if we want to do article assesment on quality (see, for example, {{Grading scheme}}) and/or importance. See for example existing template on Talk:Audrys Cardinal Bačkis. Should we have one like that? If so, start developing rating standards, rating template, categories, etc.

Second, start compiling a list of missing articles. Start with really important ones.

Third, since Lokyz seems to be the most involved with categories, you could make some sort of category tree to show existing categories and categories that might be needed. (btw, to link a category, you should put : in front of the word category. example: category:Lithuania) Renata 11:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Assessment is good thing, just IMO it's a bit early to think about it. Importance - yes, it would be really helpful to make important articles better, also template indicating that this article belongs to WP:LIT is good thing (or should we wait until this WP will get official status?).

I just dunno how much time I'll have on weekend, so can't promise a lot, but I hope I'll participate.

Should we create a subpage for requested articles and/or turorial and/or references?----Lokyz 13:16, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Persondata

Should we use this Misplaced Pages:Persondata ? It is stated it's for automated collection of data for Misplaced Pages.--Lokyz 21:27, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Images

Maybe we should build some sort of Lithuania related image data base? M.K. 21:32, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

It would be great. Added image request section.--Lokyz 21:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Um, simpliest way would to properly inventorize/categorize whatever images are on commons, here and on lt wiki. Easiest way - transfer all free images on commons. Renata 22:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

That's what M.K was talking about - not create separate, just to collect into commons a propper amount of pitures to use both in Lithuanian and English version of Misplaced Pages.--Lokyz 22:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

btw what is procedure to upload alredy existing in EN or LT etc. wiks. pictures in comm.? Does another editor could do it (not 1 editor, who uploaded these images)?

maybe we need and some sort Articles needing copy/edit also? it would be very handy at least to mine articales for sure :P M.K. 10:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

one more note, near article which, is in the Requests for article part, to avoid collision when two editors work on same articles, we should sign near the article who will take to write about it e.g. in the list- is request for Kolduneliai - I have appropriate info etc. so I will take it and near the name Kolduneliai I sing to inform others that I will work on this issue. M.K. 21:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: images. I created category Category:Images of Lithuania so please "dump" all images there. When uploading an image from EN or LT to commons you need to give as much info as possible on the original uploader. See for example this image uploaded by Knutux to commons from Lithuanian WP where it was uploaded by Algirdas. Renata 21:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

so what we should do with remaining old images when they are placed in comm. tag with speed del. or just leave in one peace?

Restructure

I did some work. IMO it looks much better now (what do you think?), but I am not quite done with resources part. So hold on, I just run out of time. Renata 15:31, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

So I moved it myself... We are official now :) And of course, help make Lithuania beter so it can pass GA nomination. Renata 16:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

GA issue should be the 'top importance matter now to us! M.K. 09:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

AK

M.K added suggestion to look for references to Armia Krajowa article, but it is rather political, and calm head recommended. No need to start another one WW on this issue. At this state article is rather acceptable and allmost balanced thanks to Piotrus. No need to spoil this balance. So evaluate sources very carefully.--Lokyz 10:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

WPBS

Please join WikiProject:Baltic States by going to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject/List of proposed projects. íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 14:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Userbox

We need a userbox. íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 14:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd add we need Template.--Lokyz 14:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I am against a userbox. Talk page template is the first thing on my to-do this weekend. Renata 17:04, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll make one, I guess. íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 17:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Userbox is redundant. No need for it, unless someone just can't live without toys.--Lokyz 19:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

That's me. :P íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 19:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok: So create at least 5 decent Lithuania related stubs, and then we'll discuss this issue(later)--Lokyz 19:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll do it tommorrow when I have time. íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 20:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's one. I'll do the rest later. íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 15:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Are you still going to do the userbox? If not, I wouldn't mind giving it a shot... Andrius 19:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I have created one at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Lithuania/Userbox:

This user is a member of Lithuania WikiProject

Renata 04:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Sweet! Thanks. íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 14:06, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Welcome

BTW, we need to modify {{welcome}} to Lithuanian users, to invite them to the project, etc. Renata 11:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

featured picture

Maybe we should add featured picture related with Lithuania?? M.K. 18:56, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Portal Lithuania might be OK, but there are not enough of pictures. So everyone march to the store and buy yourself a fotocamera:)--Lokyz 19:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Pro memoria

Some people just go, therefore IMO it would be great to remember them and to say at least a few words by creating at least some stub. I happened once to be a pupil of Gintaras Beresnevičius and I think He deserves to be mentioned in this great enciclopedia.Lokyz 23:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Lithuania Music stub ?

Who created this witout a request {{Lithuania-music-stub}}? For stub categories there are strict rules, and they should be requested, not created at will.--Lokyz 15:33, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

sorry, that was me. íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 22:37, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

no need to be angry to Hurricane, he/~~she~~ just wanted to help! M.K. 13:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

He. íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 16:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I hope you don`t leave this project, do you? M.K.

I'm not gonna leave. íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 19:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Assessment

Ok, guys, we have some serious work to do. I have just finished creating Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Lithuania/Assessment. What you need to do is to take {{WikiProject Lithuania}} and paste it on talk pages of Lithuania-related articles. Add quality and importance ratings as per assesment guidelines. Short version is presented bellow. Please leave comments on what should be improved to reach better quality rating. Also, if the article is 1-3 sentences in length add substub=yes. Pretty simple really. See Talk:Dubingiai Castle for example. Questions? :)

(Stolen from Mathematics Wikiproject)

FA	Featured article
A	Article is well written, reasonably complete and referenced; possible featured article candidate.
GA	This is a good article
B	We have a decent article, but it needs further editing
Start	Significant cleanup or expansion needed.
Stub	Article is miserable or a stub.

(Stolen from India WikiProject)

**Need:** A measure of an subject's importance, **regardless** of its quality
Top {{top-importance}}	Subject is a must-have for a print encyclopedia.
High {{high-importance}}	Subject is exceptionally important.
Mid {{mid-importance}}	Subject contributes a depth of knowledge.
Low {{low-importance}}	Subject fills in important details.

Renata 16:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Isn't GA supposed to be #ccffcc? íslenska hurikein #12 _(samtal) 16:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Dunno, not really important. Changed to {{GA-Class}}. Renata 16:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

So, say for example right now I'm filling all the red links in List of cities in Lithuania, should I put the template in the new articles? And what importance would those stubs be? Andrius 23:41, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

The template goes on the talk page. Importance does not depend on quality. For cities, I would use population/political status as indication of importance. Say, 10 county capitals are top importance, other 50 municipality capitals are high importance, other cities are mid importance and cities with population with less than 2000 is low importance. That's rough guide, feel free to disagree. Renata 00:18, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Have question. Do you personally should add and rate this on your own written articles or you should wait for other person to do so as third side? M.K. 14:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

i see nothing too wrong about rating yourown articles. Renata 18:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

If article is FA this means you have to rank it as FA also? M.K. 17:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes. GA too. Those are deternimed by the community. (Well, some GA could be A-class) Renata 18:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Articles that need attention

Somehow I think this section Articles that need attention should be placed several positions on top, if not the main one. M.K.

Top Priority

Since Lithuania is now a GA, what's gonna be the top priority? Andrius 13:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Let's just finish filling up list of cities?--Lokyz 06:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Icon for footieclub stub

Shouldn't we do something outstanding and for Lithuanian football club stub use a bit different icon than in eurofootie stub? Any proposals are welcome.--Lokyz 06:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Navigation box

do we nedd something like this Template:Ukrainian_topics?

I don't like it. Not needed clutter. Renata 10:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Cities are done!

Bravo! All the city articles have been created! The two people we really have to thank is Lokyz and Andrius. Way to go guys! Now let's un-stub them!:) Renata 23:37, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

History of Lithuania

This article is miserable... and we should clean it up. First we need to break it down to smaller periods. I porpose something like this:

History of Lithuania (before 1218)
History of Lithuania (1218-1377) → not 1385 because the whole of Jogaila belongs to Kreva
History of Lithuania (1377-1569)
History of Lithuania (1569-1795)
History of Lithuania (1795-1918)
History of Lithuania (1918-1945)
History of Lithuania (1945-1989)
History of Lithuania (since 1989)

Objections? Renata 13:23, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

nope, just all the articles would be very small... Probably we should work on categories as well, split it into smaller parts.--Lokyz 13:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Huh? (the first part). Categories can wait. Renata 14:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd suggest to add section History of Lithuania (1939-1945)--Lokyz 19:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

See my first half of #2 at user:Renata3/1219-1377. Comments welcome! Renata 16:32, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Another one idea - prehistoric Lithuania-1009, then mythical Lithuania 1009-1218 --Lokyz 22:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Such subarticles worked very well for the History of Poland.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 15:33, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Minister Cabinet of Lithuania

I'd suggest that we create one article (probably two (three) - interwar period, and again independent Lithuania (by third I mean Lithuanian SSR also deserves mentioning as being specific form of government)). And if a need emerges, split it into more specific articles (be it the 1st or the 11th). not sure whether separate articles for ministers are needed. (Maybe joint- minister/ministerium would be useful). Or at least list for a start - every list encourages anyone who visits it to fill red links:) Another one suggestion - reserve Minister Cabinet of Lithuania for current cabinet,and use navigation box to access former cabinets. (A little evaluation of cabinet's deeds would be useful, don't you think?) Also list of ministeries would help. --Lokyz 14:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

First of, it should be Cabinet of Lithuania as per Category:National cabinets. Renata 01:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Kudos for your wikiproject!

First, let me congratulate you all on this splending WikiProject, something which I will want to emulate with the creation of Polish WikiProject and would greatly appreciate any advice or help here.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 15:33, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Interesting video

Thought this might be of interest to some people - a video on Google Video consisting of nazi, soviet propaganda, videos of war (WWII), and basically an overwiew of Lithuanian occupation. Click Here. BTW, it's 54 minutes long. Andrius 21:29, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Really cool! Thanks, Andrius! Renata 21:51, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Another video (unrelated to the previous one) - this is a video of the Baltic Way Click Here, should it go into the external links of the Baltic Way article? Andrius 20:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Moved out

Guys, if you are missing your discussions "let's be friends": see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Lithuania/Conflict resolution. Please keep this talk directly related to the project itself and for planning of present and future collaborations. Thank you. Renata 03:45, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Reorganize

I just moved new article announcements to new sub-pages for cleaner look and less clutter. Add these two to your watchlists: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Lithuania/New articles & Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Lithuania/New sub-stubs. Renata 04:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Towns

Maybe we should categorize towns/vllages not by county but by district (and these by counties)? This would be more appropriate IMO.--Lokyz 16:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it's over-categorizing. Counties work just fine right now. Renata 16:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)