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This article was nominated for deletion on 22 February 2016. The result of the discussion was keep.

References to use

• Johnny Depp's White Forefathers at Wall Street Journal
• When white actors play other races at BBC
• Hollywood’s Anime Whitewashing Epidemic: Nat Wolff to Star in 'Death Note' at The Daily Beast
• Whitewashing? Hollywood under fire at The Straits Times
• Why Fans Want Scarlett Johansson Removed From this Upcoming Film at GOOD Magazine
• 'Pan' Flop Proves Whitewashing Doesn't Boost Box Office at Forbes
• An Examination of Native Americans in Film and Rise of Native Filmmakers – Whitewashing in Elon Journal of Undergraduate Research in Communications
• Are Biblical Epics Epically Racist? in The New York Times
• Is it time to boycott movies guilty of "whitewashing"? at Little White Lies
• 'Gods of Egypt' renews concern about inaccurate film casting at Associated Press
• 100 times a white actor played someone who wasn’t white at The Washington Post
• Controversial casting choices of moviemakers at CBC News
• From Emma Stone to Yul Brynner: 20 times Hollywood was guilty of white-washing movies at Metro
• John Oliver Slams Hollywood’s Whitewashing Practices at Variety
• How Hollywood Whitewashed the Old West at The Atlantic
• The Guardian view on whitewashing in the movies: a failure of imagination at The Guardian

References to use. Erik (talk | contrib) 13:10, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

"The BBC said..."

This quotation, and the paraphrase succeeding it, come from Guy Aoki, who was interviewed by the BBC. While I am sure many at the BBC agree with Aoki (I do), a concern arises with the use of the problematic term "Asian". In America, "Asian" as a racial term typically refers to someone of east or southeast Asian descent (the article describes Aoki himself, who is clearly of Japanese ancestry, as being part Hawaiian and part Asian), but in the UK "Asian" more typically refers to people from the Indian subcontinent. Aoki, an Asian-American himself, clearly uses the term in the former sense, but attributing his view to the BBC changes the meaning slightly, since our readers can only assume that the British national broadcaster would be using the standard British definition of the word. (I come from Ireland, where there were almost no people from outside Ireland until the 1990s, and so the majority of people I grew up with used the American terminology they heard in American media, but I don't know if the same is true of Americanized people in the UK, and even if people in the UK do use the American definition of "Asian", it seems unlikely that the BBC would follow this trend either way.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:56, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

I think you are misusing a geographic term. Southeast Asia includes Brunei, Cambodia, Christmas Island, East Timor, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam. It has nothing to do with Japan, which is categorized in East Asia. Dimadick (talk) 16:46, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Asian as used to describe race is not an 'american term' go to the parts of asian where the people are asian and they will call their race asian. indians, pakistanis, iranians ect may call themselves asian geographically but they do not describe their race as being asian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.151.143.9 (talk) 10:48, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Chile / The House of Spirits

Should the sources be reviewed for this entry? The Misplaced Pages article for Chile says that the population of the country is 52.7% white, with 59% or more identifying as white. Listing the film The House of Spirits here seems to contradict the Misplaced Pages article for Chile.

As including a film on this list amounts to, in a manner of speaking, an accusation against the film, should we err on the side of caution when determining whether to include a film? It seems to me that if there is reasonable doubt as to whether a film is truly an example of "whitewashing," it should not be included. Otherwise we should develop caveats for some cases (with appropriate sources, of course).

The line dividing "white" from "non-white" is inevitably somewhat arbitrary, and the standard applied in this article should be explained more thoroughly. The question of "whiteness" is quite ambiguous in Latin America and the Middle East and the article does not do much to acknowledge that. Instead, egregious and widely-recognized examples of whitewashing (such as Charlie Chan, Breakfast at Tiffany's, and The Conqueror) are grouped together with films depicting characters who may have identified as white in real life (House of Spirits, Not Without my Daughter, Argo, A Beautiful Mind, Scarface, Prince of Persia, etc).

By the standard the article appears to apply, we could include the film Steve Jobs, in which an Irish-German actor plays a Syrian character (Jobs), or When Boris Met Dave, in which an Anglo-English actor portrays a person of Turkish descent (Boris Johnson). Neither of these films, to the best of my knowledge, have ever been described as examples of whitewashing, nor would other depictions of the two figures.

We should find a way to clarify the standard applied to examples in this article, with some sources, and make sure it's available to readers on the main (non-talk) page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.50.19.62 (talk) 10:41, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Is Manuel Pellegrini a person of color? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.50.19.62 (talk) 11:29, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Yep. These are fictional people of the upper class in Chile, there is no reason to believe they shouldn't be white, given as two thirds of Chileans are. This also paints the actors as bigots like the minstrel shows of old. It is only silly Americans who think that all people who speak Spanish are non-white, the same idiots who post things on Tumblr saying that it is "cultural appropriation" when a white person (the majority of Spain, Chile, Argentina and Uruguay) speak their own language! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.18.9.247 (talk) 17:14, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Edge of Tomorrow

The list includes Edge of Tomorrow saying "white actor Tom Cruise plays William Cage, a whitewashed version of the novel's Japanese protagonist Keiji Kiriya". The novel was set mostly on an island off Japan, with Japanese and some American soldiers. The movie is set in the UK and Europe, with American and British soldiers. Very little of the original story is retained in the film. Cage is a different character entirely. You must include in your list then The Magnificent Seven as all the characters have been Americanised when it was adapted from The Seven Samurai. 202.81.248.219 (talk) 17:16, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

The list only reflects what has been stated in reliable sources, not the personal opinions of editors. So if you have a reliable source stating that The Magnificent Seven has been whitewashed then we will include it. If not, then it will remain off.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 17:20, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry if you thought I was advocating that. I was trying to point out the logical consequence of stating that characters in Edge of Tomorrow were whitewashed, not suggesting more films be included on the same grounds. I realise of course that logic has no place in any discussion in Misplaced Pages, any opinion published anywhere is a WP:RS and that's the end of it. 202.81.248.219 (talk) 17:52, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Here's a great quote in the article, from a "reliable source": "race-blind casting, as long as it works both ways. But in reality, it never has; one rarely sees, for example, an African American, Latino, or Asian actor cast as a white character." Simply ignoring examples like Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury; Will Smith as James West in Wild Wild West, on the recent DC TV series: Jimmy Olsen and Hank Henshaw in Supergirl, Iris West in The Flash; Deadshot in Suicide Squad; to score his point. But it's a reliable source, so none of those counter examples can exist. Misplaced Pages endorses truthiness over verifiable facts. 202.81.248.67 (talk) 03:49, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Several of the most "recent" examples may actually have been released following the publication of this source. The particular source quoted is a book from 2010. Even reliable sources can get dated and certain things do change. Do you think there has been sufficient changes over the last 6 years? Dimadick (talk) 07:44, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this seriously. I wouldn't claim that whitewashing doesn't exist, but the opposite, whatever you want to call it certainly takes place, and the statement I quoted above "one rarely sees..." is hard to take seriously. I found a long list of counterexamples here: Race Lift / Diversifying A Cast, with 75 or so film roles and about 100 TV show roles. Actually, quite a few predate the quote. I don't claim TVTropes is a reliable source, but the facts are easily verified. I guess the problem is to find a citeable source that says this. 202.81.248.67 (talk) 16:00, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

The Hunger Games: fanon is truth

In the description of The Hunger Games there is the justification "Readers perceived Katniss and her people to be nonwhite;". I deleted this because an unnamed person "perceiving" something is weasel words, a way to introduce an assertion without any justifaction (see e.g. statements by Donald Trump, for similar -- "I hear that", "people are saying", "I saw it on facebook"). And that was reverted because there is a source, and somehow printing weasel words makes them citeable. Since the source is a book I have no idea what it actually said, there is no quote of the source text. So because an unnamed reader of The Hunger Games imagined that a character was nonwhite, despite it never being in the text of the book, the producers of the film are deemed to have whitewashed the role because they didn't follow this "perception" of some fans. How absurd is this? So fanon is now encyclopedic? 202.81.248.43 (talk) 03:54, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Reader perceptions are an encyclopedic matter, particularly when noted by sources. And in this case, we probably already know why the readers thought so. Per the article on the character Katniss Everdeen, she and her people are described in the novel as having "straight black hair, olive skin, and grey eyes".

Olive skin is "light or moderate brown, brownish, or tannish". Which is not actually mutually exclusive with being "white", as it is quite common in areas surrounding the Mediterranean Sea (in other words Southern Europe, North Africa, and Western Asia). It is also common in the entire Middle East, the Indian subcontinent, Latin America, and various parts of Asia and Africa. Dimadick (talk) 18:27, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

The Great Wall

how is this whitewashing? it's a chinese movie not a hollywood movie if anything its diversity seeing as china is practically 100% asian, is every black actor in a medieval movies now blackwashing? its also a fantasy movie where they fight monsters not a historical documentary on the wall's construction — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.151.143.9 (talk) 01:59, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

China does have native "white" people after all. What's to say that the white actor isn't playing a Tajik or an Ugyhur?50.82.251.31 (talk) 17:00, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

It isn't Whitewashing, the character is a Western trader who gets caught up in the events of the film, not a native Chinese. The criticism surrounding it has been for the White Savior narrative, so it should be added to that list if it's not already.

Multiple sources cited in the article call the criticism "whitewashing". Neither mention "white savior", stating otherwise is WP:Original research. Remember WP:Verifiability, not truth.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 19:08, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Multiple sources use term in ways that run counter to Misplaced Pages's definition of Whitewashing. None of the people quoted in the sources use the term, article authors are simply aggregating information, and not the sources themselves. The controversy surrounding it simply does not meet the definition of Whitewashing as laid out on this very page, and the fact that some blogger at IndieWire doesn't know the different terms and reaches for the closest available thing she can think of is not a valid reason to perpetuate confusion. I don't believe any of the authors (though I'd have to go back to check) even use the term whitewashing in specific reference to The Great Wall, but simply talking about the general controversy of whitewashing that's going on of late. If it's only being used contextually and not specifically, even if you count the article authors as "sources" (which in this case is a specious argument to begin with) it doesn't fit the bill. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.4.201.125 (talk) 20:42, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Thats not the way verification works. The author's opinion counts just as much anyone he/she maybe quoting. The only opinion that doesn't count is our own. We take sources at face value as to keep a neutral point of view, free of our own interpretation, biases, or beliefs of what may or may not be true. In fact here's another source from The Guardian that states, "Now, the forthcoming blockbuster The Great Wall finds itself embroiled in the same type of whitewashing controversy, for casting Matt Damon in a film depicting an epic battle on the titular Chinese structure." The fact is the film is being criticized for whitewashing. Whether or not the criticism is valid is not the argument that is being made here. Also I kindly ask you to return the article to the WP:STATUSQUO (before your initial removal) while discussion is ongoing. I already referred you to the WP:BRD cycle in my edit summary. Re-reverting can be considered edit warring. Thank you.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 21:17, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

• It doesn't seem to meet the criteria set forth in the lede of this wiki article, since the character is not non-white. It seems to have more in common with a film like The Last Samurai. Moreover, the film is a fantasy, and is also unreleased (we don't even know the details of the plot). For all of those several reasons I advise at least waiting until the film is released, viewed by critics, and properly reviewed. Softlavender (talk) 21:04, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

• I believe this article was written based on whether a film was perceived by sources/expert opinions to be whitewashing, even if that claim can be countered by reliable facts. The key example of this is Taylor's Cleopatra (when this came up before), where it has been pointed out by natural histories that it would have been entirely possible for Egyptians of that time period to have European-like features. So while it may be obvious that there is actuall yno actual whitewashing here, the fact that the film is considered to have some by some experts should be sufficient to include that, alongside the factual evidence that they may be wrong. --MASEM (t) 21:12, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

RE: Star Trek into Darkness

Would it be possible to add a notation to the Khan item explaining that the comics illustrate that he was subjected to surgical and cosmetic alteration (in addition to a mind wipe) to hide his true identity, thus allowing Admiral Marcus to exploit his mental ability? I feel this would at least mitigate the intent of the 'white-washing' claim.

I would add this notation myself but I am not comfortable doing so.

Reference - http://memory-beta.wikia.com/Khan_Noonien_Singh_%28alternate_reality%29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.170.146.146 (talk) 23:37, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Cleopatra

Cleopatra was from the Ptolemaic Dynasty, a heavily inbred Greek (EUROPEAN) family. Any third-rate book will tell you that. Real Egyptians laugh at the claims of African Americans that somehow Cleopatra would have looked like Whoopi Goldberg, often backed up with such arguments as "Egypt is in Africa".

The sources for including this film are not academic, they are four American tabloids making clickbait lists.

First: Huffington Post using evidence cited from the Daily Mail, a notorious British tabloid http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1095043/Sorry-Liz-THIS-real-face-Cleopatra.html

Second: Complex calls Cleopatra a "woman of color", a phrase which didn't exist 100 years ago never mind 2,000 years ago. Probable echoing of Afrocentric meme http://uk.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/04/25-minority-characters-that-hollywood-whitewashed/cleopatra

Third: US News: "The British-American actress (she had dual citizenship) doesn't look even remotely Egyptian or North African. " Not an argument, Cleopatra was Greek. http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/06/12/white-actors-portraying-people-of-color-in-hollywood

Fourth: Madame Noire. An ethnocentric website claiming that both the Egyptians and Hebrews were black, both of which are discredited fringe theories. http://madamenoire.com/496138/cast-non-blacks-in-black-roles/

If you actually had some reliable sources, preferably academic studies, this could pass muster. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.18.9.247 (talk) 17:09, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

I've reported this to Fringe Theories and Reliable Sources list. It's ridiculous to call these reliable sources for your Afrocentrist fantasy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.18.9.247 (talk) 17:11, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

• I have to agree that Cleopatra is not appropriate for this list. It is very well established in academic sources that the historical Cleopatra was almost entirely of Greek ancestry. The casting of Liz Taylor in the movie was not a case of "whitewashing". Blueboar (talk) 18:16, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Please remember this only a list of films that have been subject of criticism due to whitewashing. That much is undeniable. Wether or not the film was actually whitewashed is debatable. Feel free to list any counter arguments from reliable sources.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 22:31, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

@Blueboar: please be careful to avoid original synthesis. Sources about the ethnicity of the Ptolemies would only be usable if they mention the film; and if found then that means that their viewpoint should be included in the article, not that the section should be eliminated. VQuakr (talk) 18:21, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

From my brief survey of this topic, the film is a good candidate for this list. SageRad (talk) 14:19, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

• Remove list - Focus on prose which describes the article topic. - Ryk72 06:21, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
• Comment: In any case, I have removed the claim that she had Egyptian ancestry - highly dubious and based only on unreliable sources. StAnselm (talk) 10:29, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Chile

The silly Americans are still believing that all people who speak Spanish are one big mixed race, even when I provide an academic source against it. Chile is a predominantly white country, especially the uppper class portrayed in that film. To say that Winona Ryder and Jeremy Irons are effectively doing the same thing as minstrel shows or Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's, is obscene. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.18.9.247 (talk) 17:21, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Your personal analysis isn't usable in an encyclopedia. What do sources have to say about the film and race? VQuakr (talk) 18:17, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

he's basically saying those articles are stereotyping hispanics into one homogeneous category. 'White'- washing has a racial element to it. White U.S. Hispanics and Latinos, Asian U.S. Hispanics and Latinos, and Black U.S. Hispanics and Latinos are often overlooked in the U.S. mass media and in general American social perceptions, where being "Hispanic or Latino" is often incorrectly given a racial value, usually mixed-race, such as Mestizo or Mulatto, BelAirRuse (talk) 17:13, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

References

1. Richard Rodriguez. "A CULTURAL IDENTITY".
2. "Separated by a common language: The case of the white Hispanic".
3. "Hispanics:A Culture, Not a Race". Campello.tripod.com. Retrieved December 2, 2011.

How this article can be improved.

I think that this article doesn't need too much improvement as it is pretty accurate on the topic of whitewashing. However, it mostly listed movies where whitewashing actors had occurred, rather than talking more about how whitewashing has affected Hollywood. I also think that maybe the page could have more detail on whitewashing in general. Aside from everything, it flows really well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8802:6503:5D00:9D04:717C:F8B4:CC29 (talk) 22:40, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

It would probably also benefit from inclusion of some international perspectives. - Ryk72 22:51, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Cleopatra entry should be removed or heavily expanded to add necessary nuance

@Erik: Could you explain this revert? Your edit summary appeared to contain at least two ungrammatical sentences and I can't figure out what you meant. If there is a lot of literature about Cleopatra's race, doesn't oversimplifying it as "she was not white, so this is an example of whitewashing" questionable? Alexander isn't on this list because everyone knows Alexander and his generals were Macedonian, but the vast majority of Cleo's ancestors would have looked the same as them. The reason people think this is whitewashing is because they hold a misconception that she was an Egyptian queen and so she must have been of the same ethnicity as Tutankhamun or Ramses (whitewashing of whom in popular culture is a legitimate cause of concern). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:27, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Alexander is not on this list because there are no reliable sources discussing whitewashing in that film. There are some other films with clear instances of whitewashing, but they have not been worth noting in reliable sources to warrant inclusion in this list. For Cleopatra, there are numerous sources about Cleopatra being portrayed as white. Why should we omit this entirely? There was criticism in the first place, and there can be counter-criticism stating that it is accurate that Cleopatra was white. Erik (talk | contrib) 15:06, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Let me see what detailed listing I can put together today or tomorrow to capture as much as possible what reliable sources say. Sort of busy IRL plus dealing with some box office territory (another dispute that I'm trying to address through researching and editing). Erik (talk | contrib) 15:18, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

I know that is why Alexander is not on the list. My question is whether a source that seems to be getting the relevant facts wrong can be considered reliable for that purpose. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 21:44, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Edit notice

There is a proposal at Template talk:Editnotices/Page/Whitewashing in film on whether or not an edit notice should be included in this article. All opinions are welcome.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:45, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

In the historical drama comedy epic romance film

Why are these genres listed for most of the entries in the table? They read awkwardly, and there doesn't seem to be any point other than baiting genre-warriors. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:23, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Are the genres listed in the cited sources? Dimadick (talk) 10:52, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Does that matter? Whether we continue to list peripheral information like the films' genres should probably not be based on whether external sources that aren't encyclopedia articles do so. And given how so many of the entries have several sources piled on top of each other, I can't imagine they are all uniform in the genres they describe to the films. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:57, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

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