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Little context in The Edge of Love (soundtrack)

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Unreferenced BLPs

Hello Carliertwo! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 2 of the articles that you created are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring these articles up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 7 article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the list:

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Siouxsie and the Banshees

I'm not sure why you're referring to your changes as 'chronological', The Creatures formed in 1981, there shouldn't be any reason to put the band as a "collaboration", or in the 1993 time frame.

Glad someone agrees with my proposal. Let's leave it a week to see whether anyone else comments, then if nobody raises any objections, I'll do all the necessary changes, redirects and so on. Regards, ~dom Kaos~ (talk)

Curious as to why you deleted an edition to this page regarding a cover by the song which has been used in a recent upcoming game trailer, (and the reason for many to start searching out this song in general). The old revision was merely a mention and a link. Or was the link source not good enough? ~Neos Dionsysos~ (talk)

I think you're another Hipster with a very wrong opinion about Goth bands Carliertwo, first off AllTalk is not a "prestigious source" (you used plural, in actuality I only deleted the Alltalk source) when the opinion formed by the source was not even around when the album was created (Alltalk company was created in 1991, Juju was released in 1981) making their information second hand and opinions instead of facts. I used the Guardian newspaper articles (even used direct reference as from an article asserting that Siouxsie and the Banshees is a Goth band, since that newspaper has been in existence since the 1800s, they had reporters back then directly talking to Siouxsie Sioux and band mates. To me there is no such thing as "post-punk", it is a made up term by a lazy mainstream magazine writer who couldn't really define the divergence from punk going into darker, more introverted lyrics with heavy bass lines, so instead of asking the artists or their managers what he was listening to he just decided to go with "post-punk", but really anything after punk chronologically could be called "post-punk" like gangster rap, grunge, new wave, shoegaze, etc. To me Siouxsie and the Banshees were a Punk and Goth band, "post-punk" to me is just a "safe" term people like you (most likely Hipster) use to put around music you like but don't like using the "bad/evil" Goth name to describe them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.143.151 (talk) 06:44, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Sex Pistols

Part of the problem is that your edit summary offered the claim that the "Paris gig was not interrupted due to Siouxsie." But that particular claim is made neither by the article--which says her swastika armband "caused a stir"--nor by Gimarc--who more specifically states that "she was punched by an outraged Arab man". Neither our article nor Gimarc specifies whether the incident took place at the gig, or before or after it, and in any case there is absolutely no claim that the gig was "interrupted" (there were frequently physical altercations at Sex Pistols gigs--they did not always necessitate interruptions). Does Blum--who does seem to be a strong source--actually say that the specific story of Siouxsie being punched is false? DocKino (talk) 19:21, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

The source I referenced--Gimarc--along with others mentions the incident and, on multiple occasions, Siouxsie's armband, so no, it did not strike me as trivial. However, if, as you say, Blum indicates that the incident took place when the Sex Pistols were not even present, it may not be appropriate to include. I'll take it to the article's Talk page for discussion.

Why don't you raise your concern about coverage of Rotten's penchant for wearing clothing with swastikas on the article's Talk page, as well, so others have the opportunity to weigh in. Questions to consider: Where in the article do you think discussion of the matter should be added? Do you happen to have read any high-quality sources that deal with the matter?

November 2011

Please do not add or change content without verifying it by citing reliable sources, as you did to Siouxsie and the Banshees. Please review the guidelines at Misplaced Pages:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you.

In addition to inserting a personal attack in your edit summary, you have failed (once again) to adequately cite your reference sources. If the material is actually "online on thetimes.co.uk" as you claim, provide a direct link. Don't make readers wade through an entire web site in the hopes that they may stumble upon the exact resource you supposedly had right on your screen.

I hope that you will fix the insufficient link (which you not only added once, but reverted back into the article) so that this particular instance is resolved. I also hope you will begin taking seriously the requirements of WP:Verifiability, providing full citations (URLs for online resources, page numbers for paper publications, etc.) in general. And I hope you will keep the insults to yourself in future. Thanks. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 16:38, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

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March 2013: Message to the ADMINISTRATORS

An user who constantly changes of IPs, keeps on contacting you to block me where as he looks like a clone of BEATWEAKer, an user that has been blocked indefinitely a few months ago for genre warring to Siouxsie and the Banshees-related articles articles.

Here's his ips,

2601:A:4100:5A:642E:1EB6:B88:2B18 on 12 February 2013,

2600:1003:B027:953D:F0B9:BBB3:BF02:AFC3 on 24 February at 20:00,

2601:A:4100:5A:DD7D:3A15:F73:68FD on 24 February at 22:00.

This brand new user, who constantly creates new ips, has been vandalising several pages related to Siouxsie and the Banshees for two months with genre warring.

BEATWEAKer edited the same kind of things, like at this article for instance on 01:10, 9 September 2012‎ as 2601:A:4100:5A:642E:1EB6:B88:2B18 at this date, what a coincidence. Beatwalker was quickly corrected 15 minutes later by IllaZilla here on 9 September 2012 . Carliertwo (talk) 18:16, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

• update:Carnifex11 (his new name) is a sockpuppet as it was explained by Elockid who blocked him with an expiry time of indefinite at this date, here. 19:06, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

July 2013

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Discussion

I noted your edits effectively taking a GA nom away from Avario87 for yourself. Isn't this a violation of WP:OWN? Chris Troutman (talk) 19:39, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Chris troutman, wp:Good article nominations/Instructions#Step 1:Prepare the article says : Nominators who are not significant contributors to the article should consult regular editors of the article prior to a nomination. I'm the main contributor of this article, so I should have been contacted. User Avario87 has only made cosmetic changes on this article as one can check . In fact, it was only changes of "titles". I presume, an administrator knows what is the difference between the term "ownership" and the term "stewardship". WP:Ownership and stewardship says: Do not confuse stewardship with ownership. Stewardship of an article (or group of related articles) may be the result of a sincere personal interest in the subject matter, or the editor could actually be an expert in the subject matter and provide credible insights for locating reliable sources. I'm a kind of expert as I've been searching sources and content for this article for 7 years now. It seems to me pretty rich that a contributor is gonna pass this article GA, and gets all the benefit later, by probably putting this on his/her page. I understand very well that I shouldn't have made these changes without consulting an administrator first. Though, you shouldn't have put the word "Ownership" on my talk, even with a question mark. Carliertwo (talk) 16:46, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

You must have missed the lede for those instructions where it says "Articles can be nominated by anyone" (emphasis original) "though it is highly preferable that they have contributed significantly and are familiar with the subject".

Certainly Avario87 had no business nominating that article for GA. I completely agree with you on those points.

That said, no one has to ask your permission to edit or nominate an article. To my mind, hijacking someone's GA nom is ownership, not stewardship. If you feel offended, well, you should be. Shouldn't you have assumed good faith and brought the issue up on a talk page before your hijack? Chris Troutman (talk) 19:25, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Carlie, just to add, having looked at the situation I can understand your frustration. However Chris is correct, you can't just unilaterally decide you're the editor of record. The good news is there's nothing stopping you from chiming in on the GA review when and if it happens. Providing you do so in a neutral, non-combative way, you'll still be able to have a significant role in helping improve the article. Cheers, Shoebox2 talk 02:55, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for these kind words and support, Shoebox2. It's very appreciated. I'm still speechless to see the term "ownership" appearing on my page! In the next days, I'm gonna spend time to improve this article: I've still tons of material to add. greetings. Carliertwo (talk) 16:46, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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Number vs No.

Just a heads up that either is acceptable per MOS:NUMERO. So if they've been a particular way in an article for a long time, it's probably fine to leave them as they are. —Torchiest _edits 20:42, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback Torchiest.

Per wp:CITEVAR : if you are the first contributor to add citations to an article, you may choose whichever style you think best for the article", It is the case here, I choose "number" instead of "N°" as I don't like seeing abbreviations in a text. Carliertwo (talk) 18:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

That's fine; I also had CITEVAR in mind when I left my initial comment. But I noticed you were writing in your edit summaries that no GAs or FAs use the abbreviation, which is untrue. Cheers. —Torchiest _edits 19:23, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Dreamshow

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A tag has been placed on Dreamshow requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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Talkback notice

Kevin12xd (contribs) 16:05, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Here too → De728631 (talk) 19:01, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Siouxsie and the Banshees

STOP with your careless, nonsensical reversions of my productive changes to Siouxsie and the Banshees-related articles that took a great deal of my time to make, and WP:CITEVAR does not excuse your disruptive and counter-productive behaviour. You are also wasting your time on these reversions that are just going to be re-instated anyway and which could lead to a more formal warning on my behalf. Lachlan Foley (talk) 00:01, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Infoboxes and references

Per WP:INFOBOXREF references are acceptable in infoboxes. Looking at your editing history, you have gone through countless pages reverting edits based on the erroneous idea that infoboxes cannot contain references. I will paste the information here for you in its entirety: "References are not needed in infoboxes if the content is repeated (and cited) elsewhere or if the information is obvious. If the material requires a reference (see WP:MINREF for guidelines) and the information doesn't also appear in the body of the article, the reference should be included in the infobox. However, editors should first consider including the fact in the body of the article." Bolding is mine. Re-adding unsourced text in so many articles is WP:POINTy and disruptive. freshacconci talk to me 15:06, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

And need I remind you that Twinkle has a specific warning for adding genres to music articles without references: "...I have noticed that some of your recent genre changes have conflicted with our neutral point of view and verifiability policies. While we invite all users to contribute constructively to Misplaced Pages, we urge all editors to provide reliable sources for edits made. When others disagree, we recommend you seek consensus for certain edits by discussing the matter on the article's talk page." Your reverts back to unsourced genres is actually a violation of guidelines. freshacconci talk to me 15:10, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Who is and who is not Lachlan Foley

I acknowledge that Lachlan Foley contributes as 203.52.130.149 from Hobart in Tasmania. Darkwind stated as much while blocking the IP. You are correct to be alert about changes at Siouxsie and the Banshees and other places where Lachlan has been active.

However, with regard to this edit of yours, GentleCollapse16 is not Lachlan Foley's clone. GentleCollapse16 is instead halfway around the globe. GentleCollapse16 used to contribute as Kbrito162 and from IP addresses in New York and New Jersey. See Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Kbrito162/Archive. Since I put together the sockpuppet case, Kbrito162 changed usernames and has been a very useful contributor as GentleCollapse16. Binksternet (talk) 21:58, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Your reversions to the Siouxsie page are partial and unconstructive. The AllMusic source overtly suggests they were among the first groups to become categorized as "gothic":

the true birth of goth rock was "Bela Lugosi's Dead," the 1979 debut single by Bauhaus. Already chilly post-punk outfits like the Cure and Siouxsie & the Banshees became full-on goth bands around the same time, and their heavy, menacing makeup and dark clothes became an important part of their fans' expression.

If this is not enough, here Pitchfork refers to them as among the "goth's godfathers" and page 167 of The Music of the Goth Subculture: Postmodernism and Aesthetics clearly delineates the Banshees' defining of goth and influence on later goth culture.

Furthermore, art punk is both listed by wikipedia as a genre and clearly listed by the AllMusic article, so I'm not entirely sure how you've decided to dismiss its existence as a valid tag.

And to conclude, the genres you've reinstated by reverting the page (new wave and alternative rock) are not clearly sourced anywhere on the page. Additionally, a sentence like "Their music combined elements of pop and avant-garde" is (both stylistically and in content) simplistic, one-dimensional, and banal to be the first sentence in a paragraph of the lead.

Please help better the page rather than continuing to revert it to your preferences.

User:GentleCollapse16 (talk) 22:38, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

References

1. AllMusic
2. http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/9814-a-life-less-lived-the-gothic-box/ Pitchfork
3. https://books.google.com/books?id=fiQv0mPQnj8C&pg=PA167&lpg=PA167&dq=siouxsie+banshees+gothic+rock&source=bl&ots=jO8cAICKLA&sig=-NCCaT_9s22RDNkWA41alGgB29M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCEQ6AEwATgUahUKEwjujqaP1K7HAhWGrD4KHZopC1M#v=onepage&q=siouxsie%20banshees%20gothic%20rock&f=false

August 2015

Your recent editing history at Siouxsie and the Banshees shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
You will want to revert your latest reversion so that you are not in violation of the 3RR rule. Binksternet (talk) 00:42, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

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Sioux

Hi there... I've added links to Love Crime (song) to both the Siouxsie article and the Siouxsie template, as the song has been officially released digitally. I figured this may be an article you'd be interested in creating. - eo (talk) 14:27, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

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SIOUXSIE

HEY PAL, mind getting on the talk page to actually engage with the COMPLETELY VALID sources I'm including? Or are you going to continue hiding behind irrelevant WP banners in the edit summary box? Otherwise, you're getting reported for vandalism and POV warring. GentleCollapse16 (talk) 21:13, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Wait, wait—is the problem here that you're incapable of understanding that the group were simultaneously a post-punk band and one of the early progenitors of the goth style? You realize they don't have to be ONE THING, right? Gothic rock is a damn subgenre of post-punk.... Dear me.... GentleCollapse16 (talk) 21:17, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Here is another case of a wp:genre warrior. Carliertwo (talk) 21:27, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

If you revert (again) I will immediately open an RfC and for the next 30 days you will get a dozen people or more telling you that you are wrong. Then the RfC will close and your little WP:OWN games ("I am the first contributor, I can choose") will take a precipitous serotonin drop. -- GreenC 23:57, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Green Cardamom, I suggest you calm down and stop your threat. You have never contributed to this siouxsie's article, haven't you. Your sudden message with a aggressive tone, is a reaction to the post I put on Cyberpower678's talk page, isn't it. You apparently like to use tools. Sorry but this article is not GA, even less FA. The style issue should really not be an issue in this case, but if you have time to waste... Carliertwo (talk) 00:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

My reaction is to your severe case of WP:OWN ("You have never contributed to this siouxsie's article, haven't you" and "I am the first contributor, I can choose"). We'll see who gets to choose. It won't be me, it won't be you. -- GreenC 02:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

The Scream article issue

Hi there! This recent group of sentences you added do not make clear grammatical or thematic sense:

"Steven Severin stated that the two lyrical references were J. G. Ballard and William Burroughs. The band spoke about suburbia in "Suburban Relapse". "That's why J.G. Ballard resonated so much with us, because all his near-future tales were set in this bizarre suburban wasteland. Suburbia is a place where you can imagine any kind of possibility, because there's space, not urban clutter".

First, with the Severin part, are you talking about the song mentioned in the prior sentence ("Switch"), or the album as a whole? It's not clear at all.

And are the two authors referenced (i.e., mentioned in the song), or did you mean to say "influences"??? The final quote from Mojo needs to be attributed; you cannot place a quote by itself without a subject like Severin said, "That's why... Who said the quote?

And was the quote about "Suburban Relapse" or the entire album? Again, no offense, but very sloppy writing and unclear.

Before I fix any of this, I need to know what you are referring to with the lyrical references and the final quote. Thanks! Greg Fasolino (talk) 16:00, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

I changed it a bit following your remarks. In the interview online on the BBC website, Severin cited both Ballard and Burroughs as key references for The Scream.

Siouxsie often stated that their first records were about suburbia but I don't remember the source.

Anyway in Mojo, Paytress mentioned the track "Suburban Relapse" saying it "offered a clue to the band's wolf tendency". Then there is Severin's quote that I included on the Scream article. In the Mojo article, Siouxsie lengthly speaks about suburbia, what she called the "get born, get married then die' culture, a life sentence of drudgery". Carliertwo (talk) 16:03, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Join Hands

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Join Hands you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of J Milburn -- J Milburn (talk) 16:20, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

J Milburn, Thanks, I will read your comments this weekend. Carliertwo (talk) 15:07, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

J Milburn, I have made most of the changes. I wrote remarks, like for the photograph. I will bring new material to give more substance to the article. There are several points that I'll fix later like the lead, once I will have finished to include everything in the body of the article. Carliertwo (talk) 00:39, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

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Siouxsie and the Banshees songs

Yes, the songwriters are referenced at ASCAP and the information taken from there. Unlike the record sleeve this is not a primary source. It is not possible to link to precise song at ASCAP, otherwise I would do so. I did state where the information came from in my initial edit.
Bands do not write songs, anymore than bands play bass guitar, and without naming names, there is one "singer-songwriter" who doesn't actually write their songs - although you would never believe this from reading their publicity. Further more, "Siouxsie and the Banshees" is a marketing name used by various people (band members change, don't they?), so saying a song was written by S&theB is completely meaningless. Is this clear? --Richhoncho (talk) 03:56, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

No, it isn't. They composed together and decided to put the credit as SATB on their records from 1981. What matters is what is written on sleeve. Carliertwo (talk) 12:59, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Please see this discussion. I am happy to see S&theB with the members at the time of writing noted. If there is any difference between the two sources then it is our job to point out, NOT assume we know which is correct. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:28, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Don't bring arguments between 2 users from another discussion. There is not any wp:consensus to make those changes. Carliertwo (talk) 13:53, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Join Hands

The article Join Hands you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Join Hands for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of J Milburn -- J Milburn (talk) 15:21, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Question

Hey, I can't quite figure out how to upload promotional photos for artists' picture to Wiki within Wiki guidelines, as you seem to have done here, including the 'non-free promotional image' license. Can I get some help? GentleCollapse16 (talk) 19:45, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

GentleCollapse16, copy & paste this File:name of the band plus name of the musicians.jpg (don't forget to put the ) in the body of the article, and click on "show preview" at the bottom of the page. You'll then see File:name of the band plus name of the musicians.jpg appearing in red. Click on it. Then follow the instructions, click on the file button, find the picture in your archives, and transfer it from your computer to the site. Once it is registered.

Copy & paste the text that is written at this link https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=File:Siouxsie_and_the_banshees_79.jpg&action=edit while changing the names of the musicians, etc... That should work without any problem. If it doesn't, tell me which picture you want to include, the name of the article, etc... Carliertwo (talk) 00:10, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

It's much appreciated! Not at my computer rn but I'll check back if I have any problems. Thanks again!GentleCollapse16 (talk) 03:33, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

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ANI

I have opened a discussion at WP:ANI regarding your editing. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 21:50, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

March 2017

JzG What are my disruptive edits ? Carliertwo (talk) 06:34, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

JzG as an administrator, you have to explain your decisions when you receive a demand. It is a rule. Carliertwo (talk) 06:45, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

There is no requirement to respond within any specified time, your comments are only twelve minutes apart. You were WP:CANVASSing. Guy (Help!) 06:49, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

JzG I am a newbie at ANI. I didn't know well what canvassing meant, Now I read it neatly. I erased all the non neutral notices and replaced them by neutral notes; That is allowed isn't it. Have you not seen that I have changed all my edits at those talks ?. Carliertwo (talk) 06:54, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Scream

Greg Fasolino, Burchill is a SATB denigrator, a person full of hatred, unable to be objective, pictured like this in Entranced by SATB biographer Brian Johns aka Mark Paytress (who is a journalist at Mojo (magazine)). Do you need a scan of the whole John Peel comment, so far it is the one time he used a paper Sounds to react towards the bad faith of Burchill. 19 year she was brainless, didn't even have a degree at school. who on earth can be a journalist at this age ? : John Peel is considered to be the highest authority specialist, how can his point of view not be relevant ?

The Face (magazine) wrote in 1980 that The Scream received 5 star reviews by everyone bar one person Julie Burchill.

Finally, PalecloudedWhite has got an agenda: I would believe he is good faith had he not decided to include the words "sound of a suet pudding". Do you believe that this is necessary? Do you think it will be more than good to track every review that Burchill wrote about all the punk and post-punk bands and neatly selected her most venomemous comments for an inclusion on wikipedia ? She pissed on Radio Ethiopia if my memory serves.

Again, sorry you have to compromise, I would accept the inclusion of the quote of Burchill, even accepting to not include the Peel's criticism, etc if you agree to withdraw the words "suet pudding". Carliertwo (talk) 18:49, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I note that you didn't even write at ANI that I have added all the worthwhile material on these articles, and as the users who take part in this kind of trial, don't ever take time to check history of the edits. I mean read the answers of certain users. So, they don't know the value of an user like myself and my ability to make good research and adding interesting content and not trivial things. Anyway it is over, the people who don't even know the difference between a SPA and a stewardship are going to win. In the first rfc, Paleclouded presented me as a SPA, if you still think this person is of good faith, I don't. He wants to get rid of me and then withdraw my material, slightly changing my quotes, slowly but surely and finally once in while adding the most horrible quote he will find like "suet pudding". But be aware of one thing, if by a miracle my head is saved, I'm going to edit well on wikipedia. No one could ever tagged me as a SPA and I will act like certain people I know. Carliertwo (talk) 19:15, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Look, I tried to help you. You are not seeing the problem. The problem is that you are being emotional and trying to defend the band, which is unnecessary and against Wiki goals. Why do you care whether a journalist in 1979 criticized an album by calling it "suet pudding?" Why does this bother you so much? You are NOT being neutral and that's going to lead to issues with other editors. I will try to respond to some of your specific comments: For one, "19 year she was brainless, didn't even have a degree at school. who on earth can be a journalist at this age?" I was a music journalist starting at 19 and my reviews were quoted. Was I brainless? I know many other music journos who started as older teens or college-age people. It's not your place, or mine, to decide whether her review meets your standard. It's in a reputable newspaper. That's all that matters. John Peel is relevant in terms of his OWN opinions on bands and who he played on his show. His opinion on other journalists is not really relevant to our article here. We don't judge sources by other sources. "The Scream received 5 star reviews by everyone bar one person Julie Burchill." All the more reason to include a different view! Lastly, "I would accept the inclusion of the quote of Burchill, even accepting to not include the Peel's criticism, etc if you agree to withdraw the words "suet pudding"" Please be reminded, you do not own this article and it's not up to you. Greg Fasolino (talk) 19:19, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

sorry but editors have to try to compromise when it is possible. I don't think my demand of reverting "suet pudding" is against wp:NPOV. Including this "However, in her review of the album, NME's Julie Burchill was unimpressed, stating that the Banshees sound was "a self-important threshing machine thrashing all stringed instruments down onto the same low level alongside that draggy sub-voice as it attempts futile eagle and dove swoops around the mono-beat. Their sound is certainly different from the normal guitar-bass-drums-voice consequence. But it’s radically stodgy loud, heavy and levelling" would be a sign of good will and will prove that Paleclouded doesn't have an agenda as it looks to me he may have now. Greg Fasolino -- Carliertwo (talk) 19:41, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I understand your point of view, I would have thought that one needs at least a master in English which means 5 years of studying to be a journalist. It is the case everywhere but in the 70s the situation was apparently completely different. I guess you are right, she did not write on a blog, she published this in a paper which means that her work was read before publishing and accepting by an editor in chief. I note that mentioning her young age is not relevant even if I supported it by a source. ok. John Peel's view is not seen as relevant, too. That said, I still can't understand why the last words of the long quote included in the article with "suet pudding", follows of our rules of wp:neutrality and no bashing towards a work or a person. Why do you want to include "suet pudding" ? Her review is negative, citing one even two sentences but such a long quote is wp:undue. I mean I even have a 5 star review of Sounds and I didn't even include a quote from it ! If all the reviews were 5 stars bar Burchill's, including only a quote from her should be enough. Once again, letting many sentences from her is wp:undue. Greg Fasolino -- Carliertwo (talk) 19:31, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

"I would have thought that one needs at least a master in English which means 5 years of studying to be a journalist. It is the case everywhere but in the 70s the situation was apparently completely different." There is a difference between having a journalism degree (I do, it normally is four years), and being a journalist. It's not a licensed job like a doctor or attorney, it's a job description. Many music journalists have other degrees or no degrees at all. Many started as fanzine writers. OK, enough about journalists. "rules of wp:neutrality and no bashing towards a work or a person". This is a profound misunderstanding of Wiki rules. Neutrality applies to EDITORS, not SOURCES. Look at any article on a record or film or book that is regarded poorly by critics, and you will see many very negative quotes. There is absolutely nothing "bashing" about quoting a negative critique by a valid source. Greg Fasolino (talk) 19:44, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

So to conclude, will you support the inclusion of "suet pudding" ? If an user expert like you on music articles thinks these 2 words are relevant, I ask you to clearly announce me now. There is no need for me to keep on writing at the talk of the scream if you tell me now you support this suet pudding. I'm not gonna argue anymore, I don't have a consensus and no one ever posted anything at these talks. Greg Fasolino Carliertwo (talk) 19:53, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Look, I *personally* love The Scream, since the day I bought it in 1982. I do not personally agree with Burchill's description of "suet pudding." But my personal assessment of The Scream is irrelevant. Why should I care what Burchill said? We are just reporting it. The mistake you keep making is feeling like it is your job, or any Wiki editor's job, to evaluate the sources we use and decide if they are right or not. Look, if I was writing an article for a music magazine on The Scream, then it might be relevant to note and critique Burchill's bad review. But that's not what we are trying to do here on Wiki. "Suet pudding" is just a British way of saying any other dismissive colorful term; it could be "steaming pile of garbage," or "dumpster fire" or "feeble dog turd" or whatever. The point is, she hated the album and that term gets it across pretty well, actually. The question is, why do you feel the need to try to argue with Burchill? You're not supposed to be "defending" the album or displaying any non-neutral viewpoint on the album when you edit the article. As I said, I think that's the problem you ran into with other editors here. You don't seem to understand that it's bad form to try to make sure the article promotes how good the album is. Greg Fasolino (talk) 22:51, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

TheGracefulSlick

Can you stop attacking me constantly, please? Thanks! You shot me many times in the topic. You got what you wanted, you have far more than the majority. I'm going to be banned. Your behaviour is arrogance, you even have the dare to write that my discussion with Greg here is another sign of "bias" but look, Greg had already posted his comment on the ANI before we both started talking here. The discussion I have with him now is to know his pov for the Scream (article). Where is the bias whereas this is my talk? He posted his comment at ANI, full stop. Then, he pinged at the talk of the Scream (album) article but as I am blocked, I couldn't post anything there. I am polite, so I pinged him to discuss here. Grace, I don't thank you for acting like a super judge whereas you are not an administrator, if you were I would have been sent in Siberia and beheaded, I think. You have just accused me of "bias" but what about you, your accusation of SPA, your behaviour close of harassment. As you said before, any discussion between the both of us is not productive, it is a fact. so I finish here. I do prefer talking with people who talk to me without putting a tag on my face without even knowing the history of my edits. See that Greg gave an excellent appreciation of my work at the scream talk. Don't write anything on my talk. I write you this to let you know my pov. I know yours already. Carliertwo (talk) 20:18, 28 March 2017 (UTC)