Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 22:24, 20 July 2017

Earthquakes Template‑class

This template is within the scope of WikiProject Earthquakes, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of earthquakes, seismology, plate tectonics, and related subjects on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EarthquakesWikipedia:WikiProject EarthquakesTemplate:WikiProject EarthquakesWikiProject Earthquakes Template This template does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Map

I really don't see the reason to have an image description for a MAP. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

some extra bits

What about a couple of extra sections to the infobox. How bout the Coordinate details and the depth that the earthquake struck at? Both of these are already listed on any USGS earthquake report page. Nomadtales 00:51, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

done, you read my thoughts :) --TheFEARgod (Ч) 22:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Columns

How the heck do I make the right column wider than the left one? I want to do this so country names don't get wrapped. Lexicon (talk) 21:45, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Caption problem

Is there a way to make the caption of this template more center? When being used it seems to shift right of some reason and makes the infobox longer. Black Tusk (talk) 04:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Microformat and bot request

I have added the hCalendar [[microformat}} to this template and submitted this bot request:

For pages using {{Earthquake}}, convert dates (if after 1750AD) to use {{Start date}}, and change coordinates display parameters to |display=inline,title as in this edit. The former will make the date appear in the template's hCalendar microformat; the latter will make the articles appear in Google Earth/ Maps mashups.

Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 23:52, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Map2

Hello all. I added "map2" to allow for map templates to be used instead of images. Cheers - Gobeirne (talk) 18:25, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

1848 Marlborough New Zealand

1848 Marlborough earthquake
UTC time	??
Magnitude	Mw 7.5
Depth	shallow
Epicenter	Marlborough, South Island
Areas affected	New Zealand
Casualties	3 deaths

Damage to template

Beginning on Jan 20, User:Thumperward made a series of changes to this template that made all the bullseye maps disappear from all articles using the template. I reverted these changes given the high profiles of articles using these maps. The bulleye maps are still missing from many dozens of articles unless the code in each article is manually changed from Earthquake to Infobox earthquake. Abductive (reasoning) 16:39, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Category:Earthquake articles needing a picture

Can the template be altered so that it doesn't automatically put earthquake articles into this category? There are many such articles, most of them with pictures in the body of the page, so it really is unnecessary. See for instance discussion at Talk:2010 Haiti earthquake. Thanks, Mikenorton (talk) 08:41, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

 Done --Pontificalibus (talk) 10:02, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Mikenorton (talk) 11:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Foreshocks

This template needs a field for foreshocks. 184.144.160.156 (talk) 06:20, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

AmE vs BrE, AuE, CanE spelling

The current location parameter defaults to the American spelling "Epicenter", which causes style inconsistencies for earthquake articles written in other variants of English ("Epicentre"). Any way to change this so that the user can choose between the spelling?

 Done. |engvar=en-UK will show "Epicentre". Same effect with |engvar=en-AU, en-CA. Intention: template should follow article WP:engvar spelling. -DePiep (talk) 16:50, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

ISO region, long and lat

The German template de:Vorlage:Infobox Erdbeben uses ISO region codes and long and lat in order to automatically provide a locator map. e.g. de:Erdbeben vor Sumatra 2012 is |Breitengrad = 2.348 |Region-ISO = XI |Längengrad = 93.072 XI brings in the locator map defined at de:Vorlage:Info ISO-3166-2:XI. Is "XI" in the region code spec? I tihnk this would useful to add to our template..? John Vandenberg 22:52, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

PGA parameter

Should be wikilinked in the infobox like this: ]. Wikilinking of g is not right per WP:EGG. GregorB (talk) 12:38, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Regularly occurring earthquakes

Tōkai earthquakes is using this template, but it seems to me that it's not semantically correct—it's a series of regularly occurring earthquakes, which makes the "date" field seem a little strange—shouldn't it be "frequency" or something? Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:13, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Magnitude notation

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

closed as DePiep is under a one-year topic ban. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 22:23, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

I propose an improvement on noting the magnitude(s). Background is that the magnitude is a well-defined physical quantity (SI even), and we could use that. At the moment, the notation is incorrect very often. First, I'll talk about Moment magnitude scale, or M_w, as this is the modern value used. Later it can be expanded to Rich. ter and other magnitudes.

Physical quantity notation

A physical quantity is that something we try to measure, and is noted in this pattern:

physical quantity = number × unit

Instead of words, we can use symbols:

v = 10 km/h

Main takeaway: recognise the math pattern ("lefthand = righthand").

Some notes. It is a true mathematical formula, especially when using symbols. We are very familiar with seeing a 'unit symbol' "km/h", but the 'quantity symbol' "v" is more rare, because in reading we use "speed=..." and "the speed is ...". That is all fine and OK. The dimension of the quantity and of the unit are the same: "length/time". (we can convert the righthand value into another unit with the same dimension, like m/s).

Magnitude scale notation

First: Its quantity symbol is: M_w (capital M in italics, lowercase upright w subscripted). Therefor both name and this symbol belong in the lefthand side of the equasion. Second: it has no unit (the value is "dimensionless"). Or, mathematically: the unit is "1". (caveat: actually it has a unit with an energy-related dimension, a very complicated one, but by convention it is omitted). So we can write:

moment magnitude scale = number × 1

moment magnitude scale = number

We may replace the name with its symbol:

M_w = number

(wrong is: "moment magnitude scale = number × M_w": N: M_w is not the unit)

Infobox improvement

Instead of writing today's "Magnitude 8.3 M_w" in the infobox, we better write:

"Magnitude (M_w) 8.3".

Because this follows the main pattern: "Magnitude = number × unit".

Implementation

1. Add new parameter |magnitude Mw= to template.

2. Edit article to refine the input: change |magnitude=6.3 Mw into |magnitude Mw=6.3

3. In the infobox, show:

Note: As a style choice, I've linked the text, and unbolded the M_w.

4. To consider: extra automated checks on their usage (not used together).

5. Additional advantage: the editor does not need to enter the "M_w" (link) right. The infobox already has.

Other magnitude scales

For Richter magnitude scale and its quantity symbol M_L, similar. |magnitude Richter= or |magnitude ML= (todo: choose one). Similar for |max magnitude=.

Once the parameter(s) are added, each article should be revisited and the parameter edited, taking a good look.

Summary

1. Add |magnitude Mw= next to existing |magnitude=

Showing in infobox like:

Magnitude (M_w)    6.3

1. Edit articles (change parameter name and input when appropriate).
2. Add |magnitude ML=, similar (for Richter scale)

Comments? -DePiep (talk) 15:54, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

That's largely a recapitulation of comments DePiep made at Talk:Seismic scale#On formatting M, which bears on the {{M}} template I have been developing. The purpose of the template is provide an easy yet flexible way of presenting earthquake magnitudes in a consistent manner (with additional tracking features). Currently we are looking at some subtle variations of formatting (such as mb_Lg, mb_Lg, and m_{b_Lg}, etc.)

I think additional scale-specific parameters in this infobox are unnecessary, and even undesirable. The various scales that might be encountered (even in the popular media) and the details of the proper labels, their formatting, and explanations of proper usage, are rather more than conveniently handled in this and similar templates. I suggest that the infobox remain with the generic |magnitude= parameter, and rely on the {{M}} template to handle the details.

What might be considered here is whether the presentation should be in the form of:

1. Magnitude        6.3 M_w 

2. Magnitude        M_w 6.3

3. Magnitude (M_w )        6.3

(These will probably use an italicized M; that's a detail handled in {M}.)

~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 22:46, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Nonsense. For starters, M_w is not an abbreviation, it is a symbol. (abuse of {{abbr}}). -DePiep (talk) 22:52, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Really, why are you talking about mb_Lg? I don't mind what template you are developing. I mind what we show. And that is: correct magnitude value formatting. That's for M_w and M_L. SI is clear and does not leave much leeway (good). -DePiep (talk) 22:58, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

1. Magnitude        6.3 M_w  N Mw is a lefthand symbol, not a unit!

2. Magnitude        M_w 6.3 N Mw is a lefthand symbol

3. Magnitude (M_w)        6.3 Y ~as I proposed: goes with the wording, and so LH side. BTW, add link to be Magnitude. No abbr. -DePiep (talk) 23:05, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

• re The various scales that might be encountered (even in the popular media) and the details of the proper labels, their formatting, and explanations of proper usage, are rather more than conveniently handled in this and similar templates.

-- No they are not. Right now, it is up to the article editor to enter this right, and they failed easily (also the template /doc did not help). While using like |magnitude Mw= solves this. You seem to think that there are no mistakes in current formatting? -DePiep (talk) 23:11, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

Don't go flying off about transitory, trivial details. The use of {abbr} was something I tried, and am replacing with optional wikilinks. The template documentation is, AS IT SAYS (and in a box, no less) "NOT complete", so you're rather premature to be complaining about it.

I am talking about mb_Lg because it is one of about a score of commonly used magnitude scales, and my intention is to make all these scales easily accessible to all editors, expert or not, as well as adding tracking categories and optional wikilinks. You deny that is more conveniently done with a template, and seem to be saying that it is the responsibility of each article editor to get all these details right. So why is it that you used the template when you replicated my three examples? Okay, yes, I know, you just copied it, But it would be instructive if you would rebuild that entirely without using the template, and see if that is more or less convenient. I suspect you really don't know, on account having extremely little practice with these labels.

Your rhetorical question ("You seem to think that there are no mistakes in current formatting?") is rhetorical bullfart. Of course there are problems in current formatting. Don't be trying to stick that on me; I'm trying to fix it. The current state is that until now there has been no guidance on the use of earthquake magnitudes, no standard or style, and no templates. So each individual editor, many of them knowing nothing more about magnitudes than what they see in their local newspapers, has had full and complete freedom (and responsibility) to do it however they want, but usually little to zilch knowledge on the standard ways of doing so. And little interest in coordinating with anyone else. So now that I am producing a multi-faceted and easy-to-use template you are complaining that it is – not convenient to use? What gall. And that coming from someone who seems to think that only two scales are sufficient for all future uses. That you are sooooo hung up on "correct magnitude value formatting", and then so careless about the scale of those values, is no improvement. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 09:18, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

Struck my unhelpful comment above, not in place.

In general: I'm not about your developing template {{M}}, I am writing about how to write the (two main) magnitudes correctly as a physical quantity. That's with or without any template for starters. That could be solved at Talk:seismic scale centrally, while this talkpage can continue with that result. It might take a careful second reading to shift main issues from details & distractions, indeed. -DePiep (talk) 11:21, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm still a bit rankled by some of your comments, but I'll accept that as expression of good faith.

I wonder if what you want needs to be clarified. It seems to me you have raised at least three issues:

1) details of formatting (e.g., italicization and subscripting);

2) general "left-hand or right-hand" usage (right?);

3) particular changes to this infobox.

I think the formating is best done in the template, but at any rate this is more properly an isssue for Talk:Seismic scale#On formatting M. The second issue seems to be your principal concern, which merits consideration, but again, I think not here. My objections to what you propose are actually independent of the second issue. So while I am open to discussion of "left-hand/right-hand", I think that should not be entangled with the changes you propose. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:17, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

• Template-Class WikiProject Earthquakes pages
• NA-importance WikiProject Earthquakes pages
• WikiProject Earthquakes articles