Talk:Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna of Russia: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 23:42, 28 July 2017 editCeoil (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions, Pending changes reviewers171,993 edits →Assassin's Creed Chronicles: Russia Trivia?: r← Previous edit		Revision as of 00:04, 29 July 2017 edit undoSupermann (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users2,763 edits →Assassin's Creed Chronicles: Russia Trivia?Next edit →
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	:::::::::I saw the discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Grand_Duchess_Anastasia_Nikolaevna_of_Russia regarding the removal of a 2004 book. But I haven't seen discussion of games which could be far more engaging. On this particular talk page, it says, "Even so (that it's a featured article), if you can update or improve it, ]." Now, why don't {{ping\|Awadewit}} and {{ping\|Ceoil}} chime in here and take the initiative to move forward on their original suggestions?? Do we really have a lot of references of Anastasia across books, films, games, or song that should and could have been unearthed? ] (]) 18:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)		:::::::::I saw the discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Grand_Duchess_Anastasia_Nikolaevna_of_Russia regarding the removal of a 2004 book. But I haven't seen discussion of games which could be far more engaging. On this particular talk page, it says, "Even so (that it's a featured article), if you can update or improve it, ]." Now, why don't {{ping\|Awadewit}} and {{ping\|Ceoil}} chime in here and take the initiative to move forward on their original suggestions?? Do we really have a lot of references of Anastasia across books, films, games, or song that should and could have been unearthed? ] (]) 18:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
	:I dont think inclusion of the video game character is useful here, although it should definitely be mentioned in the Assassins Creed article. "In culture" sections are notoriously difficult to balance, to find the correct pitch and convey the extent to which the topic has permeated a wider culture is hard; then there is the matter of which examples to choose that are significant and appropriate to the topic. I get where you are coming from Supermann - it was with heavy heart that I voted exclusion of ] "]" album cover from the '']'', but in that context it fell under ]; there were better egs to use. The problem is that unless inclusion is not woven to a more general presentation of the influence left behind by a life or work, you are left with a disjointed "and x also" bulleted list. ] (]) 22:24, 28 July 2017 (UTC)		:I dont think inclusion of the video game character is useful here, although it should definitely be mentioned in the Assassins Creed article. "In culture" sections are notoriously difficult to balance, to find the correct pitch and convey the extent to which the topic has permeated a wider culture is hard; then there is the matter of which examples to choose that are significant and appropriate to the topic. I get where you are coming from Supermann - it was with heavy heart that I voted exclusion of ] "]" album cover from the '']'', but in that context it fell under ]; there were better egs to use. The problem is that unless inclusion is not woven to a more general presentation of the influence left behind by a life or work, you are left with a disjointed "and x also" bulleted list. ] (]) 22:24, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
			::{{ping\|Ceoil}} I appreciate the example you have given. I learn new things every day. But I don't know how to weave the game into the article without being original research and violating copyright. The tough economic reality facing journalists is real. That's why we have fewer sources to cite these days. If we don't house stuff on wikipedia, things will become more difficult to find for the ordinary folks. I don't want to go back and forth on this since my experience told me that people who cite policies, style guidelines here will be less inclined to IAR. But could you please guide me how to create a list for major Anastasia appearances so that the collection could exist somewhere? Many thanks. ] (]) 00:04, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

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Assassin's Creed Chronicles: Russia Trivia?

@Bookworm857158367:, @DrKay: How is she appearing at the 2016 game Assassin's Creed Chronicles: Russia a trivia? She is a playable character possessing assassin's ability. She was not only a damsel in distress.Supermann (talk) 00:20, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

This is not an article that should or does include every single reference to Anastasia Nikolaevna in books, film, video game or song. It's a featured article, not a list of pop culture references. Of course, you could start a separate article -- List of references to Grand Duchess Anastasia in pop culture -- if you are so inclined. But please do not keep adding the video game reference to this article. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 02:19, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Could she have a lot of references in films, video games though? I find that hard to believe. There is no sign of her influence in games at all. Adding mine shouldn't hurt. Movie wise, they are not award-winning and outdated. Despite its so-called feature status, the Influence on culture section was marked "needs additional citations for verification." It's time to come up with a way to remove that message and display the variety of her influence. Supermann (talk) 02:45, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

It's not appropriate in a featured article. It's one of dozens or hundreds of such references and they can't be listed. This has already been debated and the consensus is not to include them. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 03:14, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Could you pls point me to that archived discussion on consensus? Plus, consensus could change.Supermann (talk) 03:17, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

It was when the article was up for Featured Article status and was edited accordingly. Other people tried to include video game appearances and it was edited out by consensus. Look, this is trivia and just not important enough to include. There are lots of video games or pop songs or children's books with Anastasia mentions. I'd suggest that you start a separate article that does list pop culture references to the Romanovs. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 03:52, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Why don't you start if you have access to all that data? Pls find me the other folks who have tried and I could simply add in the 2016 one. They must know more than I know. Plus, are you suggesting a LIST article would be subject to less scrutiny? Many thanks.Supermann (talk) 03:58, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm not interested in compiling the information for that article and I don't think it's important. If you do, a separate article would be the way to go about it. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 04:50, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I saw the discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Grand_Duchess_Anastasia_Nikolaevna_of_Russia regarding the removal of a 2004 book. But I haven't seen discussion of games which could be far more engaging. On this particular talk page, it says, "Even so (that it's a featured article), if you can update or improve it, please do so." Now, why don't @Awadewit: and @Ceoil: chime in here and take the initiative to move forward on their original suggestions?? Do we really have a lot of references of Anastasia across books, films, games, or song that should and could have been unearthed? Supermann (talk) 18:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I dont think inclusion of the video game character is useful here, although it should definitely be mentioned in the Assassins Creed article. "In culture" sections are notoriously difficult to balance, to find the correct pitch and convey the extent to which the topic has permeated a wider culture is hard; then there is the matter of which examples to choose that are significant and appropriate to the topic. I get where you are coming from Supermann - it was with heavy heart that I voted exclusion of The Pogues "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash" album cover from the The Raft of the Medusa, but in that context it fell under WP:TRIVIA; there were better egs to use. The problem is that unless inclusion is not woven to a more general presentation of the influence left behind by a life or work, you are left with a disjointed "and x also" bulleted list. Ceoil (talk) 22:24, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

@Ceoil: I appreciate the example you have given. I learn new things every day. But I don't know how to weave the game into the article without being original research and violating copyright. The tough economic reality facing journalists is real. That's why we have fewer sources to cite these days. If we don't house stuff on wikipedia, things will become more difficult to find for the ordinary folks. I don't want to go back and forth on this since my experience told me that people who cite policies, style guidelines here will be less inclined to IAR. But could you please guide me how to create a list for major Anastasia appearances so that the collection could exist somewhere? Many thanks. Supermann (talk) 00:04, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

"Video Game / Assassin's Creed Chronicles". TVTropes.org. Retrieved 21 July 2017.
"ASSASSIN'S CREED CHRONICLES: RUSSIA PC". Ubisoft. Retrieved 26 July 2017.

Categories:

Revision as of 23:42, 28 July 2017 editCeoil (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions, Pending changes reviewers171,993 edits →Assassin's Creed Chronicles: Russia Trivia?: r← Previous edit		Revision as of 00:04, 29 July 2017 edit undoSupermann (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users2,763 edits →Assassin's Creed Chronicles: Russia Trivia?Next edit →
Line 67:		Line 67:
	:::::::::I saw the discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Grand_Duchess_Anastasia_Nikolaevna_of_Russia regarding the removal of a 2004 book. But I haven't seen discussion of games which could be far more engaging. On this particular talk page, it says, "Even so (that it's a featured article), if you can update or improve it, ]." Now, why don't {{ping\|Awadewit}} and {{ping\|Ceoil}} chime in here and take the initiative to move forward on their original suggestions?? Do we really have a lot of references of Anastasia across books, films, games, or song that should and could have been unearthed? ] (]) 18:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)		:::::::::I saw the discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Grand_Duchess_Anastasia_Nikolaevna_of_Russia regarding the removal of a 2004 book. But I haven't seen discussion of games which could be far more engaging. On this particular talk page, it says, "Even so (that it's a featured article), if you can update or improve it, ]." Now, why don't {{ping\|Awadewit}} and {{ping\|Ceoil}} chime in here and take the initiative to move forward on their original suggestions?? Do we really have a lot of references of Anastasia across books, films, games, or song that should and could have been unearthed? ] (]) 18:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
	:I dont think inclusion of the video game character is useful here, although it should definitely be mentioned in the Assassins Creed article. "In culture" sections are notoriously difficult to balance, to find the correct pitch and convey the extent to which the topic has permeated a wider culture is hard; then there is the matter of which examples to choose that are significant and appropriate to the topic. I get where you are coming from Supermann - it was with heavy heart that I voted exclusion of ] "]" album cover from the '']'', but in that context it fell under ]; there were better egs to use. The problem is that unless inclusion is not woven to a more general presentation of the influence left behind by a life or work, you are left with a disjointed "and x also" bulleted list. ] (]) 22:24, 28 July 2017 (UTC)		:I dont think inclusion of the video game character is useful here, although it should definitely be mentioned in the Assassins Creed article. "In culture" sections are notoriously difficult to balance, to find the correct pitch and convey the extent to which the topic has permeated a wider culture is hard; then there is the matter of which examples to choose that are significant and appropriate to the topic. I get where you are coming from Supermann - it was with heavy heart that I voted exclusion of ] "]" album cover from the '']'', but in that context it fell under ]; there were better egs to use. The problem is that unless inclusion is not woven to a more general presentation of the influence left behind by a life or work, you are left with a disjointed "and x also" bulleted list. ] (]) 22:24, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
			::{{ping\|Ceoil}} I appreciate the example you have given. I learn new things every day. But I don't know how to weave the game into the article without being original research and violating copyright. The tough economic reality facing journalists is real. That's why we have fewer sources to cite these days. If we don't house stuff on wikipedia, things will become more difficult to find for the ordinary folks. I don't want to go back and forth on this since my experience told me that people who cite policies, style guidelines here will be less inclined to IAR. But could you please guide me how to create a list for major Anastasia appearances so that the collection could exist somewhere? Many thanks. ] (]) 00:04, 29 July 2017 (UTC)