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	Charlie Chaplin is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Misplaced Pages community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
	This article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 2, 2014.
Article milestones Date Process Result February 22, 2010 Good article nominee Not listed November 12, 2013 Good article nominee Listed December 15, 2013 Peer review Reviewed January 14, 2014 Featured article candidate Promoted A fact from this article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 16, 2013.The text of the entry was: Did you know that in 1972, Charlie Chaplin received an Honorary Academy Award for "the incalculable effect he has had in making motion pictures the art form of this century"? Facts from this article were featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 4, 2004, March 4, 2005, February 7, 2009, February 7, 2013, and February 7, 2017. Current status: Featured article

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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Another nationality dispute

Responding to this repeated reversion, insisting that he should not be considered an American actor, filmmaker, or composer:

1. He was an unknown bit part silent actor in England;
2. He achieved his main, if not only, notability in the U.S.
3. He was not a British filmmaker per MOS purposes, nor was he a British composer, except for a few of his last films;
4. For the purposes of WP, his notability is therefore mainly from being an American actor, filmmaker and composer.

A similar discussion came up for Olivia de Havilland. And FWIW, the British film, Chaplin (1992), supports this. To therefore exclude his notability as an American filmmaker, and replace it with English filmmaker only, would be misleading in the extreme. In fact, he never moved back to the U.K even after he left the U.S. --Light show (talk) 09:02, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

The only dispute is your own. I didn't give a "rationale" in the edit summary as its self evident. Chaplin is an English actor because he's English. He is not an American. Does a Spaniard who stars in the NBA stop being Spanish? Regards his stage career, he was part of the Karno troupe that made him. Without that there is no Chaplin. As the Boulting Brothers stated regarding Peter Sellers, "he's the greatest comic genius this country has produced since Charles Chaplin".BT Curry (talk) 09:30, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

You are wrong in saying Chaplin was unknown in England, he was actually a popular stage performer long before he got in front of a camera.Nationality means country of citizenship. Chaplin was born a British citizen, and never took citizenship in the United States. Therefore it is misleading to say he was a American. The fact that he was a politically active foreigner was why the FBI was so determined to have him being Blacklisted. Mediatech492 (talk) 12:38, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Furthermore, while IMDb isn't something we should cite per WP:WikiProject Film/Resources#Questionable resources, the linked trailer actually never says anything about citizenships anyway, and the film itself (which is mainly based on Chaplin's autobiography and David Robinson's biography on him) clearly notes he wasn't a US citizen. The opening sentence should for the most part only include nations where one has citizenships. It therefore is misleading to call him American as others have noted. Snuggums (talk / edits) 13:15, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

When it comes to what nationality we list living people as, citizenship comes first and where they obtained notability comes second. Chaplain clearly is more notable for his American work then his British work. However, if he never obtained American citizenship, he should not be listed as American. If somebody shows reliable sources that he obtained American citizenship, he should be listed as British-American. JDDJS (talk) 17:08, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

As noted above, that's not the case here, so "American" doesn't belong in opening sentence as it would incorrectly imply he had citizenship there. Snuggums (talk / edits) 19:19, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

He retained his British citizenship throughout as evidenced by his substantive knighthood and style of "Sir". If he had have become and American it would have been an honorary knighthood only and he would not have been entitled to the style of "Sir". Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:16, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Citizenship focus

It seems that all of the replies rely on the fact that because he chose not to become a U.S. citizen, and by default remained a British citizen, then his notability statement should not mention America. The notability guideline states, On Misplaced Pages, notability is a test used by editors to decide whether a given topic warrants its own article. Add to that the MOS guideline, which makes details like citizenship often secondary:

The opening paragraph should usually provide context. In most modern-day cases this will mean the country ... where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable.

And of course, since he never, until late in his career, filmed anything in England, either as actor, director, composer, screenwriter, producer or editor, stating that he was "an English filmmaker" in the first sentence is erroneous context and misleading; it implies he lived in England as a filmmaker. We should not assume everyone will read or understand the subsequent facts, such as that 99% of his notability came from his films, not his early-career music hall vaudeville acts with Fred Karno's company. It wasn't until he began filming with Essany, an American film studio, that he became a star.

Chaplin saw himself as an American when he visited England after he became a film star. Michael North, in Reading 1922 (Oxford, 1999), writes: When Chaplin arrived in England, he felt sadly estranged, having become very much an American... Dan Kamin, in The Comedy of Charlie Chaplin (2008), referred to him as an "American artist."

So maybe Encyclopedia Britannica offers the best compromise, describing him in its lead sentence as a "British-born American actor and director, who won international fame ..." Although the guidelines also state that birth and death places, if known, should be mentioned in the body of the article, and can be in the lead if relevant to the person's notability... Since his music hall period had little to do with his notability as most people know it, it's questionable whether saying where he was born should be in the opening sentence.

In any case, since he was never an "English filmmaker," that statement should be rewritten to be up front and honest with readers. Had he become a U.S. citizen during his nearly 40 years as an American filmmaker, this citizenship issue would be moot. But just because he never did, is no excuse for redefining his career and misleading readers unfamiliar with him. --Light show (talk) 07:03, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

As to why this issue is important, IMO, it's because it may affect numerous other bios. Stan Laurel, for instance, is also wrongly described as an English actor, when he similarly only did some early music hall work in England. And Alfred Hitchcock, who did become a U.S. citizen, and made most of his films in the U.S., is also misdescribed as an "English film director and producer." --Light show (talk) 07:29, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Clearly it's important to you. Chaplin was English, or more precisely a Londoner. Hollywood is the location of all the major film studios. You seem to think that once you work in Hollywood you change nationality. In an alternate universe, if your point of view was indeed the case there wouldn't be any other nationality in film but American, there wouldn't be Meryl Streep's speech at the awards ceremony two months ago about most of the workers in the room being foreign. An Englishman in New York wouldn't apply either...using your point of view. BT Curry (talk) 08:37, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

How about "... was an English comic actor who found greater fame in Hollywood as an actor, filmmaker, and composer during the era of silent film"? BTW, let's avoid the term "American ..." unless you can show he was also active in either Canada or Mexico. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:43, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Martin, his career is already in the lede. As a featured article it's best to avoid duplication. Edward Highgate (talk) 09:04, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The above suggestion was to replace the contentious "... was an English comic actor, filmmaker, and composer who rose to fame during the era of silent film" not to duplicate it. The only duplicated word then is "actor". I intentionally removed the adjective from the Hollywood phase since he did so much more than just comic acting. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:17, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

It would be better to use something less repetitive (if mentioning Hollywood at all) like "who rose to fame during Hollywood's silent film era". I was about to say "rose to fame in Hollywood", but he did previously gain recognition for his stage work in London. Snuggums (talk / edits) 12:31, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

I think the body of the article already is more than sufficient to detail how and where Chaplin made his success. Lets not try to use the lede for purposes other than intended. Mediatech492 (talk) 12:35, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Citizenship/nationality is a legal concept that leaves no space for interpretation. Chaplin was a UK citizen for his entire life, and while he resided and worked in the US for four decades, he was still legally considered an alien by the US authorities; to claim that he was an American is simply false. As for whether he identified as an American, no, he stated publicly that he identified as English, and his films are thoroughly influenced by his British background (e.g. they take place in urban settings which mimic Kennington, where he grew up). His refusal to apply for US citizenship was one of the reasons why he got into such trouble in the US the 1940s and was eventually booted out of the country. Yes, he is an important figure in American film history, but that does not change his nationality — following your logic we could also state that he had no nationality given the importance of his films to film history in general. That it's even necessary to have this discussion is quite troubling, as is Light show's campaign to introduce wrong information to Misplaced Pages in order to satisfy his own peculiar and misguided patriotism. LS, you're not approaching an article by first doing the research and then editing based on what you've learned, but are instead attempting to shape the article according to your opinions, by only using source material that suits your particular ideas. This is not how Misplaced Pages is supposed to operate. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 13:45, 12 April 2017 (UTC)TrueHeartSusie3

Very well put, Susie. Snuggums (talk / edits) 14:19, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Very poorly put, Susie. There are two parts to your comment: one dealing with his legal status and citizenship, and the other a repeated violation of AGF guidelines by mind-reading and implying an agenda. And unfortunately, both parts are wrong and off-topic.

The guidelines are clear: The opening paragraph should usually provide context. In most modern-day cases this will mean the country ... where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable. In other words, this is not about how he would apply for a passport or run for office. It's a purely encyclopedic definition that WP uses for describing notability, which is the key requirement for any article. What he did growing up, or what settings he mimicked when producing films in America, or what his problems with the U.S. government were, which may have been related to the smear campaign against him, is off-topic. This man is interested in his citizenship; but when he and D. W. Griffith, Douglas Fairbanks and Mary Pickford founded United Artists, his legal citizenship was mostly irrelevant, as it should be in the lead. --Light show (talk) 17:21, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Wasn't intending to chime in on this (beyond responding to Martin) but when Susie states the user Light show is "attempting to shape the article according to your opinions", that's exactly the case. Besides that, congrats on getting this to featured article status Susie. Edward Highgate (talk) 19:30, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Not my opinion, Chaplin's. During a New York bond rally in 1918, Chaplin yelled out to the crowd: Although British-born, I am 144 percent American, and would be in the trenches if it were not for a physical disability. --Light show (talk) 19:57, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Other reliable sources describe him as a British-born filmmaker:

The Encyclopedia of British Film, Oxford (2013); The Routledge Companion to British Cinema History, Routledge (2017); The American Film Institute Desk Reference, Dorling Kindersley Publishing (2002); Encyclopedia Britannica, EB (1998). --Light show (talk) 20:07, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

And a multitude of sources state English. Roger Ebert states he was a British filmmaker, so English or British. There is no consensus for any change. BT Curry (talk) 21:13, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

If Chaplin never held American citizenship then he was technically an alien when within the USA which it would seem would preclude him from ever being regarded as an 'American'. Presumably if he were still alive then he would require a Green card in order to live and work in the US.

While Chaplin lived and worked in the US he had none of the legal rights a US citizen had. So he wasn't an 'American'.

" .. Chaplin saw himself as an American when he visited England after he became a film star. Michael North, in Reading 1922 (Oxford, 1999), writes: When Chaplin arrived in England, he felt sadly estranged, having become very much an American... Dan Kamin, in The Comedy of Charlie Chaplin (2008), referred to him as an "American artist." ... " these are all statements made by third parties, and are hearsay, as unless Chaplin himself said this, they are worthless as statements of his views. They are someone else's' opinions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.144.50.200 (talk) 15:59, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

RfC: on describing Chaplin's nationality as a filmmaker

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should Chaplin be described as (A), an English (or British) filmmaker, or (B), a British-born filmmaker? 20:27, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Survey

• B: His notability as an actor, director, composer, screenwriter, producer and editor, came in America. Stating that he was "an English filmmaker" could be is misleading since it implies he lived in England as a filmmaker. --Light show (talk) 20:27, 16 April 2017 (UTC)
• A: He was an English citizen his whole life regardless of where he resided during most of his life. As noted above, the fact that he refused to become a US citizen is one of the reasons he got into legal trouble with American authorities. Light show, you quite blatantly are disregarding what constitutes one's citizenship/nationality, and are trying way too hard to prove a faulty point. Please desist per WP:POINT and WP:IDHT. Snuggums (talk / edits) 21:01, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Please note guidelines: Keep the discussions focused upon the topic of the talk page, rather than on the personalities of the editors contributing to the talk page. --Light show (talk) 21:07, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Light show's comments are littered with original research and personal opinion. Chaplin was English, made his name with the Karno troupe in the British music hall, worked in Hollywood for much of his career, followed by making films in England, before being knighted for his work. As stated previously Light show seems to believe that once you work in Hollywood you lose your nationality. If this were the case, with most of the major film studios being in Hollywood, there wouldn't be any other nationality in film. Meryl Streep's recent comments about the variety of nationalities wouldn't apply. The location of the film studios is your nationality, according to Light show. You again put forward your own point of view by saying it implies he worked in England as a filmmaker. It doesn't imply anything of the sort. In terms of English or British, the film critic Roger Ebert called Chaplin a British filmmaker, but Chaplin is best known as a Londoner, born and bred in England, hence English is more specific. BT Curry (talk) 21:23, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

FWIW, the threaded discussion section below is for personal comments like this. And BTW, none of my earlier comments are opinions. If they are, and you point them out below, I'll strike them. --Light show (talk) 21:40, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

To use the most recent example, you stated it is misleading, that's your opinion. Your comments above are littered with them. Roger Ebert referred to Chaplin as a British filmmaker, you are saying Ebert is misleading, that would be your opinion. BT Curry (talk) 21:59, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Chaplin wasn't a "English citizen". There was, and is, no such thing.--Jack Upland (talk) 22:26, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Indeed, British nationality law refers to British citizens as opposed to the constituent countries. BT Curry (talk) 22:45 16 April 2017 (UTC)

A Light show, that is patent nonsense. He is English and British. A persons nationality doesn't change, unless they explicitly give it up, which he never did. scope_creep (talk) 12:48, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Since he was born in England in 1889 he would have been born a citizen of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", As a legal foreign national in the United States he would have had to carry a passport, and on that United Kingdom passport under the heading "Nationality" it would have said "British Citizen". Mediatech492 (talk) 13:24, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Actually, it would have said "British subject", I think.--Jack Upland (talk) 00:42, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

b British born, for that is what he is, I doubt most anyone even knew he was British (I did) or that he retained his citizenship. L3X1 (distant write) 14:13, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Its a silly survey. Chaplin is English and held British citizenship his whole life. As recent as 2014 foreigners from outside the UK named him among the best known British icons (just read it in Adele's page) in a poll conducted by the British council. I'm here for another reason (question below). AlanArkin55 (talk) 14:31, 17 April 2017 (UTC) sock coment L3X1 (distant write) 02:34, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

ANot just British born, but British for his entire life. The first sentence of a bio lead should first state a person's nationality (as per MOS), and that's what our readers expect us to do. To call him an American would be false and misleading. See also the above discussions. Light show isn't doing this to make Misplaced Pages more accurate, but it attempting to change content to reflect his opinions, which is very concerning. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 14:36, 17 April 2017 (UTC)TrueHeartSusie3

If you read the RfC more carefully, you'll discover that describing him as American is not part of it. --Light show (talk) 16:48, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Groundhog day with the same editor pov pushing. As far as I'm concerned Light show qualifies as a disruptive editor, evidenced by changing the nationality of non Americans to American actors (look at the users edit history). I reverted the users edit on here as Chaplin being English is not altered by the users pov. Edward Highgate (talk) 17:31, 17 April 2017 (UTC) sock vote L3X1 (distant write) 02:34, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

A - with a preference for English, seeing as he was born in London. It's not possible, as far as I know, to be born in "Britain". Cassianto 17:51, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Why not?--Jack Upland (talk) 00:43, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

You can only be born in either England, Scotland, Wales or Ireland. London is in England. Why use "Britain" to describe Chaplin's birthplace when we can be more accurate and say "English"? To say "I was born in Britain" is like saying "I was born in Europe". It's far too vague. Cassianto 08:28, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

It's not impossible to be born in Europe.--Jack Upland (talk) 12:37, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

I didn't say that it was. Cassianto 12:47, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

A, obviously. He has achieved a degree of success and renown in the UK and actively refused to take US citizenship.To suggest he was not British (or English) is misleading and damaging. (And to !vote B because of one's own ignorance that CC was English is bizzare. I suppose that's we should be grateful that this rather silly brouhaha has managed to educate one person, even if it has wasted the time of numerous others). All the best, The Bounder (talk) 00:30, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

B. Summoned by bot. Wording is preferable given long career in US, despite never having acquired citizenship. Coretheapple (talk) 12:58, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

A On further consideration I'm going with "A." I think that to make this "B" we would, as a matter of consistency, have to utilize similar terminology for other actors with similar backgrounds. Stan Laurel, whose career trajectory was similar, is described as "English." So I think that with Chaplin we have to go with "British." Coretheapple (talk) 14:00, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

A as being non-contestable. We might well append "known for his American films" as this is where his career primarily was. Collect (talk) 12:50, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

A, Charlie Chaplin was British. He took no measures to lose his British citizenship. The solution is simple. Simply have the lead sentence declare: “Sir Charles Spencer "Charlie" Chaplin, KBE (16 April 1889 – 25 December 1977) was an English comic actor, filmmaker, and composer who rose to fame in America during the era of silent film.” By specifying the place where he created his fame, Misplaced Pages will take into account that his notability as an actor, producer, director, screenwriter and editor, occurred in America. This will reflect that he refused to become a US citizen (which as noted by User: Snuggums is one of the reasons he got into legal trouble with American authorities) The cause of his legal problems is documented in the article via reliable sources and this should continued to be mentioned in the article of course, but not in the lead of the article. desmay (talk) 01:50, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

What concerns me about that phrasing is that it seems to imply that he was only or mainly famous in the US when he was in fact an international star. If the lead should be changed (and I think it should be noted that the majority of editors don't seem to think that Chaplin's career in the US is downplayed in the lead), I would propose this: "Chaplin was scouted for the film industry and began appearing in 1914 for Keystone Studios in California" (highlighted bit is the addition). TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 06:13, 28 April 2017 (UTC)TrueHeartSusie3

How about this: Charlie Chaplin was an world famous English film star who spent most of his career in America as an actor, filmmaker, director, composer, and producer. --Light show (talk) 08:21, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Do you think it's acceptable to introduce weasel words into a featured article? Cassianto 08:35, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Threaded discussion

• Comment: It seems that the RfC choices between A and B are still a bit complex and some of the replies drift off into other topics. A few observations: The RfC is not questioning whether Chaplin remained a British citizen (or subject.) It is not implying that he ever became an American citizen. It is not implying that for nationality purposes he should be described as an American, although he said he was relevant to his profession.

The issue is whether the lead introducing his notability as an actor, director, composer, screenwriter, producer and editor, which came during his 40 years in America, should say he was an "English actor ..." or a "British-born actor ..." As it is, the lead seems to intentionally downplay his relationship to America, with only a single mention: At 19, he was signed to the prestigious Fred Karno company, which took him to America. Took him to America? But that's not the only trivialized America-related detail in the lead. There's also this one: Chaplin was forced to leave the United States and settle in Switzerland. Not only was he never "forced" to leave, but he was never "forced" to "settle in Switzerland." He chose Switzerland over England for other reasons. In fact he did not like skiing, and disliked cold weather and snow. That was one of the reasons he said he loved California.

As for some of the survey comments, Snuggums states up front, "He was an English citizen his whole life ..." User:Scope creep similarly focused on his nationality. User: Mediatech492 the same: "British Citizen". User:THS, "Not just British born, but British for his entire life." And Cassianto, "English, seeing as he was born in London."

Although no one denies he was born in Britain, the "A" votes prefer not to include that fact in the lead. That has the effect, IMO, of misleading countless readers unfamiliar with Chaplin, making many who don't read the massive article assume he spent his career in England. --Light show (talk) 18:36, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

That is your POV and is not a factual based finding. Cassianto 18:49, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Light show, please stop wasting everyone's time and stop undermining whatever credibility this encyclopedia has by trying to bend it to suit your whims instead of facts. It's only you who believes that Chaplin's work in America is downplayed in the lead. As for your absolutely ridiculous claim about the US not booting him out – yeah sure, technically he could have tried to go back, but the cancelation of his return permit was a strong message from an American government already convinced Chaplin was an enemy, and had he returned it would have meant a thorough investigation and interrogation (possibly leading to a trial). I'm not going to bother with explaining anything more, because it's patently clear it's not that you don't know these things, it's that you just want Misplaced Pages to reflect your opinions, not facts. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 11:05, 19 April 2017 (UTC)TrueHeartSusie3

I agree, the demonstrated facts do not support the assertions of "User:Light show". It is time to end this conversation and move on. Mediatech492 (talk) 14:59, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Not my opinion. I'm going by the facts in the article only. Chaplin decided to hold the world premiere of "Limelight" in London, since it was the setting of the film...Maland has concluded... that the US government had no real evidence to prevent Chaplin's re-entry. It is likely that he would have gained entry if he had applied for it....The couple decided to settle in Switzerland.

Although it's still off-topic from the RfC, since you insist on arguing about it, the lead which you wrote is still obviously misleading: Chaplin was forced to leave the United States and settle in Switzerland. So if you want to continue arguing about it, argue with yourself, not me. --Light show (talk) 19:38, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

• There's no reason to rake Light show over the coals for this proposal, and the world wouldn't end if it was enacted. I object to the attacks on them for "wasting time." This is not a waste of time. My initial view was to go with B. However, I switched to A when I noticed that the general practice in these matters is to go with the citizenship of the actor, as with his friend and contemporary Laurel. Cary Grant, who became an American citizen, is correctly referred to in his article as "British-American." Ditto Elizabeth Taylor. I am not aware of "British born" being utilized to denote British performers who spent most of their careers in the U.S. but did not become U.S. citizens. Coretheapple (talk) 15:32, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "utilized." Very reliable sources describe him as a British-born filmmaker: The Encyclopedia of British Film, Oxford (2013); The Routledge Companion to British Cinema History, Routledge (2017); The American Film Institute Desk Reference, Dorling Kindersley Publishing (2002), and Encyclopedia Britannica, EB (1998), with its opening description: "British-born American actor and director, who won international fame ..."

There are some options for adding accuracy to the lead, with some suggestions beginning with, IMO, the most accurate to the least:

1. He was an actor, filmmaker, and composer.
2. He was an actor . . . who spent most of his career in America.
3. He was an American actor . . . who was born and raised in England.
4. He was an English-born actor . . . who spent most of career in America.
5. Current lead: He was an English actor . . . . (His minimal connection to America in the lead is from being part of a tour, and noting later that he "was forced to leave the United States and settle in Switzerland.")

According to the MOS guidelines, even mentioning his place of birth or citizenship in the lead sentence is debatable since it's typically in the infobox only. And then we have someone like Alfred Hitchcock, who did most of his films in America and even became a U.S. citizen, is still described as "an English film director and producer." --Light show (talk) 18:49, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

(Addendum) Is his place of birth any more significant than his choosing to spend the last 36 years of his life in Switzerland, where he is buried? Is it relevant that his public appreciation seems to have come mostly from outside the U.K., with his final one being a knighthood by Queen Elizabeth II, "though he was too weak to kneel and received the honour in his wheelchair"? --Light show (talk) 20:02, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Well like I said, the skies won't fall if B is utilized, If you can find that a preponderance of reliable sources describe him as something other than British, I'll flip-flop back to B. Coretheapple (talk) 18:57, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Light show, it's only you who thinks it's unclear from the lead that Chaplin spent the most important years of his career in the US. According to the MOS, we give official citizenship priority, as is logical. Chaplin wasn't just born in England, he was English/British for his whole life and his Britishness was important to his works and identity, as has been outlined above. You seem to be waging a campaign to change the nationality of several famous figures to American, regardless of whether they ever held citizenship —e.g. Claire Bloom, Omar Sharif and Maximilian Schell— but based on your weird interpretations and misguided patriotism. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 19:29, 24 April 2017 (UTC)TrueHeartSusie3

Unlike some, I prefer to just go by WP guidelines. --Light show (talk) 20:28, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Is that why you're not allowed to upload anymore images or take part in any discussion or edits at Stanley Kubrick? Cassianto 08:32, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

• Another way to keep the opening accurate and less political would be similar to Oliver Sacks's lead:

...was a British neurologist, naturalist and author. Born and educated mostly in Great Britain, he spent his career in the United States. Or that of Omar Sharif: He began his career in his native country in the 1950s, but is best known for his appearances in both British and American productions. Along with Elizabeth Taylor: She began as a child actress in the early 1940s, and was one of the most popular stars of classical Hollywood cinema in the 1950s.--Light show (talk) 18:00, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

But on the other hand, when someone was born in one country and spent their career in another, Encyclopedia Britannica's description of Chaplin is simpler: British-born American actor and director, who won international fame ... --Light show (talk) 18:07, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Exactly how is stating a person's legal nationality status a "political" statement? Mediatech492 (talk) 18:05, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Good question. But it was THS who wrote the entire RfC is based on weird interpretations and misguided patriotism. Ask her. --Light show (talk) 18:10, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

You didn't answer the question. Do you have an answer, or are you just going to continue wasting everyone's time? Mediatech492 (talk) 22:32, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

• Suggestion: The following phrasing was added in the survey section above, but to avoid cluttering up that area I'll just put it here for any comments. From that original phrasing above I removed some redundant words since the same detail is in the first paragraph: considered one of the most important figure in the history of the film industry. If anyone feels that I should also strike out in America as irrelevant, feel free to say so.

Charlie Chaplin was an English film star who spent most of his career in America as an actor, filmmaker, director, composer, and producer. Thoughts? --Light show (talk) 17:54, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

What concerns me about that phrasing is that it seems to imply that he was only or mainly famous in the US when he was in fact an international star. If the lead should be changed (and I think it should be noted that the majority of editors don't seem to think that Chaplin's career in the US is downplayed in the lead), I would propose this: "Chaplin was scouted for the film industry and began appearing in 1914 for Keystone Studios in California" (highlighted bit is the addition). TrueHeartSusie3

Your main concern is already dealt with in the second sentence of the current lead: Chaplin became a worldwide icon through his screen persona "the Tramp" and is considered one of the most important figures in the history of the film industry. I guess you could substitute "international star" for "worldwide icon," but the word "star" would then be repeated.--Light show (talk) 20:51, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Sir Charlie's knighthood

Sir Charlie was to be knighted by the Queen in the 1950s but his knighthood was delayed due to whispers over his communist links. I don't see this in the article. Isn't this notable? AlanArkin55 (talk) 14:41, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

They were a bit more than whispers, I mean he was booted out of the US in 1952. I don't recall hearing that any definite plans had been made, I might be wrong though. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 15:52, 17 April 2017 (UTC)TrueHeartSusie3

There were definite plans made and, as the information appears in the Dictionary of National Biography, it's probably notable enough for inclusion here. The DNB says:

"Anthony Eden's government wanted to honour the comedian with a knighthood in 1956 but refrained from doing so because of fear of retaliation from the United States. Chaplin's failure to become an American citizen, accusations by conservatives that he was either a communist or a communist sympathizer, and his problems with the IRS made the comedian unpopular with the United States government. Also, his marriages to two sixteen-year-old women and subsequent divorces and the Joan Barry paternity suit severely damaged Chaplin's reputation with the American public. When the Foreign Office's American department was asked about US reaction if Chaplin were to be knighted, its officials expressed objections. Relations between the United Kingdom and America were strained because of the Suez crisis, and these British officials were particularly sensitive about doing anything that would antagonize the United States. Consequently any thoughts about knighting the controversial comedian at this time were dropped."

I hope this helps. All the best, The Bounder (talk) 00:23, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2017

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He was a Jew Hesanangryelf (talk) 20:36, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. See footnote 14 in the article Cannolis (talk) 20:49, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

May 15 incident (1932)

There's an interesting bit of trivia involving Chaplin avoiding possible assassination while on a trip to Japan in 1932 on the May 15 Incident page. Do you think this should be mentioned on this page in some way? Unimaginable666 (talk) 03:18, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Well, a planned assassination isn't trivial. I think it should be mentioned here. Also, he was obviously interested in East Asia, but this isn't really explored in the text.--Jack Upland (talk) 18:00, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2017

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I am requesting that the reason for his marriage to Oona ending is changed. Most people assume that the d. at the end of their marriage means divorced. I am requesting it be changed to "his death" in the section under his name with his biography including his marriages. Abishop47 (talk) 11:42, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

"Div" means divorce, as the preceding entries in the list show; and "d" means death, and has the benefit of a tooltip explanation if you hover over it. But the better point is that "death" is ambiguous as to whether it means his or her death, so for clarity I have changed d to "his death". Bencherlite 12:00, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Ignoring reliable sources

The two most referenced sources in the bio are from the Robinson and Maland biographies. However, Maland's clearly stated description of Chaplin as having been an American filmmaker is disregarded, as noted in a recent edit which trimmed off that fact.

Per Maland's biography (p. 84):

As Chaplin's fame enabled him to make contacts there , his relationships with some of these intellectuals, as well as their friendships among themselves, evenetually led to frequent praise for Chaplin in their articles and books as the first and only important American screen artist. Public kudos from such circles gave Chaplin's star image a legitimacy among the intelligentsia rarely attained by an American filmmaker before the studio system broke up.

Chaplin is called a "British American filmmaker" in a college textbook on film art, Understanding Art, (p. 169), and he himself said to a large crowd in New York, "I am 144 percent American...". Another widely used reference in this bio is Dan Kamin's book, The Comedy of Charlie Chaplin: Artistry in Motion, in which he called Chaplin an "American artist."(p. 181).

As for WP guidelines, which cover how he should be described in the opening paragraph, do any sources claim that he was ever "an English...filmmaker and composer", (or director, or silent film actor)? However, the opening sentence in the bio makes that claim. It therefore disregards the guidelines with misleading context: As the guidelines state:

The opening paragraph should usually provide context. In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if the person is notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable.

Unless I'm misreading those guidelines, his citizenship in England, from where he moved to Hollywood at 19, and actually never lived there again, would mean the context of his notability is incorrect. To add the required context, he should be described as having been an "American filmmaker." --Light show (talk) 17:58, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

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