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Is it an island? I thought it was a continent instead.Dmn 15:59, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It is an island-continent and a country that is made up of numerous islands, the Australian mainland being the largest. It can be circumnavigated, therefore it is an island. Antarctica would qualify on similar grounds if it was a country.--Gene_poole 23:36, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The island article says otherwise. On every list of the worlds largest islands I've seen Greenland comes top Dmn 00:09, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Please explain how it can possibly not be an island if it can be circumnavigated.--Gene_poole 13:03, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've never heard circumnavigation ever mentioned as a criterion for being an island. It is possible to go down the Atlantic, around the Cape of Good Hope, through the Indian Ocean, up the Pacific and across the Arctic ocean. But this does not make the combined landmass of Asia, Africa and Europe an island - it is too large. As is Australia and Antarctica. Dmn 14:22, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

None of the continents listed are single landmasses so your point is moot. I suggest you revisit your definition of what constitutes an island. The Concise Oxford defines it as "A piece of land surrounded by water" - note a piece - meaning one contiguous landmass - which mainland Australia obviously is.--Gene_poole 21:57, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Is there a term used to describe "mainland Australia" (Australia minus Tasmania, Kangaroo Is, Melville Is, Bribie Is, etc). I guess the same could be also be asked of "mainland Tasmania" (Tasmania minus Flinders Is, Bruny Is, King Is, etc). For reference I've lived in Tasmania all my life and have never heard of a term for either of them! -- Chuq 23:28, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well if you're a New Zealander I think it's called "West Island", and I've heard that Taswegians refer to it as "North Island". :-) Seriously though, I've never heard of anyone coming to Australia via the overland route - at least not since the last Ice Age - so unless someone can prove otherwise I'm going to keep calling it an island. --Gene_poole 00:04, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Definition revisited: Three different sources on dictionary.com specifically exclude continents from being islands. There are no definitions that support Australia being an island. Lets just compromise and put a suitable note on the article indicating that there are different views as to whether Australia is an island or not. Dmn 00:56, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You can argue this semantic point till the cows come home, but the reality is that the nation-state of Australia has NO land borders with any other state, and CANNOT be reached via overland routes. This is a list of island countries, and Australia obviously IS one by all rational definitions of the term - irrespective of whether it is also a continent (which it is). The article should certainly state that Australia is an island-continent - but that Australia is an island-country is simply not a negotiable point.--Gene_poole 01:54, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The geographers' purely arbitrary definition of a continent is any object as large or larger than Australia than can be circumnavigated. The accepted definition of an island is an object smaller than Australia that can be circumnavigated. - SimonP 22:57, Sep 18, 2004 (UTC)

Australia

Australia is obviously an island, as it is a "landmass surrounded by water" as per the Concise Oxford Dictionary definition. It is also obviously a continent. It is commonly referred to as an "island continent". This usage is widespread and international. A Google search for "island continent" Australia returns 26,000 results.--Gene_poole 23:05, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

North America is also an island by the OED definition. Is Canada thus an island country? - SimonP 03:16, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

Can you still drive there from the US?--Gene_poole 03:20, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

You can drive from Ireland to the UK. - SimonP 05:31, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

Ireland is rightly noted as a disputed list inclusion, as it currently consists of 2 political entities sharing a single island. Australia is a single political entity occupying multiple islands. As the article introduction states: This is a list of countries which are made up of just islands. This means that they are either a single island or a group of islands. Canada obviously fulfills neither criteria. --Gene_poole 06:20, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

If "landmass surrounded by water" is the definition of island, that covers every landmass on Earth. If an island is something capable of being circumnavigated, that also covers every landmass-- provided you have a powerful enough icebreaker. These definitions are, therefore, pretty useless, as it has been decided that some landmasses are islands, but continents. Gene Poole, can you explain why what has been established on island, list of islands by area, and list of islands by population--specifically, that Australia is a continent--must be rehashed here? --Yath 08:31, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The current unambiguous intent of this article is to list political entities that are the sole or primary occupiers of detatched, circumnavigable landmasses. Australia is one such, and as the only example of an island that is also a continent as well as a state it belongs here. --Gene_poole 08:43, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The trouble remains, that Australia is not an island. Or were you referring to the fact that Australia occupies all of Tasmania, and is therefore an island nation? That would make Greece, Italy, France, and any number of additional nations eligible for the list. Looks like the article needs an Also attached to a continent section. --Yath 09:05, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Australia the state comprises multiple islands, the biggest of which is a continental landmass, and I see no justification for excluding it from this list on the basis of that this represents a unique conjunction of taxonomic criteria - namely that it is an "island continent", a fact of which all Australian schoolchildren have been aprised for over a century.--Gene_poole 09:30, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Google

There are two current arguments over this page. The first is if Australia is an island country. The second is if an "island country" is any country on an island, or only those that are completely surrounded by water. Both of these are debates of English usage. What does island mean? What is an "island country"? Fortunately questions of language usage can be resolved by Google.

Explnation:The first column contains the name of the country. The second is how many Google hits each country gets. The third is how many hits the name + "island nation" gets. The next column is the percentage of hits for the country that contains "island nation" times 100. i.e. 1000(Column2/Column3). The fourth column is the number of Google hits containing the name of each country and "island country". The second last column is similar to column four, but looks at the percentage of "island country" compared to the whole.

The final column groups countries based on theri geography: Group A: countries that are surrounded by water (Grenada, Jamaica, Cuba, New Zealnd) Group B: countries that are on islands, but shared with another country (Haiti, Dominican Republic, Papua New Guinea Group C: countries that are neither (Honduras, Malaysia, Canada) Group D: Australia

Conclusions:

• The first thing that is readily apparent is that "island nation" is a far more common term that "island country" I shall thus rename this page.
• Australia gets results similar to states that are clearly notisland nations and thus should be excluded from our list.
• There is no appreciable difference between Group A, states that are the sole inhabitants of islands, and Group B, states that are on islands but share them. Thus both should be on our list of island nations. - SimonP 06:41, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

Leaving aside flawed methodologies and dubious conclusions, there is not a single part of Australia that shares a a land border with any other country. This by definition makes it an island country/nation/political entity/state. No manner of Googling will alter that.--Gene_poole 06:58, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Not if anything as large as Australia is by defintion not an island. "Island of Australia" gets a grand total of 950 Google hits. - SimonP 07:04, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

And as I've already pointed out above, "island continent+Australia" returns 26,000 results. What's your point? If Australia is not an island country, please show evidence of its land borders with other states.--Gene_poole 07:12, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

You keep bringing up the strawman that anything that is surrounded by water is unquestionably an island. This is not true, most people consider continents not to be islands. - SimonP 07:14, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

It is not a "straw man" argument to state an incontrovertible fact. You assert that an entity that has no land borders whatsoever is, somehow, not an island country. The burden of proof lies on you to show how this is possible.--Gene_poole 07:20, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It is, however, a straw man to put words in the opponent's mouth. SimonP is not arguing that Austrailia doesn't border on other countries. He is arguing that people do not call Austrailia an island. He has argued this very convincingly. And, oh, "Gene Poole" is undergoing arbitration right now. Samboy 00:48, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have repeatedly. Anything as large as Australia is a continent and not an island, ergo it is not an island nation. - SimonP 07:24, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

And I have repeatedly shown that in thousands of instances of cited common usage Australia is referred to as an "island continent". Ergo, it belongs on this list.--Gene_poole 07:27, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Should we also put Canada on the list of islands, since there are thousands of instances of usage (I don't know how a hit on Google becomes an example of "cited common usage") of it being called an "island continent"? Samboy 02:41, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

From the official Australian government website :Australia is the only nation to govern an entire continent and its outlying islands. The mainland is the largest island and the smallest, flattest continent on Earth. --Gene_poole 03:14, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

This is a good argument as to why we should list Austrailia as an island; "Gene Poole" was able to argue a point without making any logical fallacies, and, more importantly, without engaging in any direct or implied personal insults. That said, the people at Denmark are quite proud to be the owner of the "World's Largest Island", namely, Greenland: . See also about.com, where it states " is large enough to be considered its own continent". And the Guiness Book of World Records, where it says " is usually regarded as a continental landmass". Samboy 21:57, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have altered the opening sentence such that it includes "circumnavigable landmasses". I trust this will prove a resolution to the point of disputation.--Gene_poole 07:34, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Santo Domingo

The island shared by Haiti and the Dominican Republic was named "Hispaniola" by Columbus in 1492, and renamed "Santo Domingo" in 1508 - as per and . I have now noted both versions.--Gene_poole 05:53, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Further research reveals that the names "Hispaniola", "Santo Domingo" and "Haiti" have all at various times been applied to the island - often, it appears, simultaneously (depending on which government was doing the applying). "Santo Domingo" appears to have been in common usage from the 16-19th centuries. The most common contemporary usage appears to be "Hispaniola", but this appears to be a result of the association with Columbus, and it is unclear from official government websites whether Haiti and the Dominican Republic have ever agreed to an "official" joint name. I have therefore noted the various alternatives.--Gene_poole 10:56, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have inserted the phrase "commonly known as Hispaniola" as a compromise statement. It is obviously in common usage, however many modern maps do not ascribe any name to the island as a whole, and no evidence has come to hand to suggest that the Dominican and Haitian governments have ever formally agreed to "Hispaniola". If it is in fact not the formally agreed name, then other alternate appelations should be noted.--Gene_poole 03:46, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What the two governments call it is very much irrelevant, we use common English forms here, and any English map which ascribes a name to it uses Hispaniola (obviously there are political maps which don't label islands that are not political units). Gzornenplatz 04:11, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the research on the subject! Samboy 21:52, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Citations that Australia is/is not an island

Please provide citations of either Austrailia being called an island, or not being called an island here. So far (see above) there have been four citations of Austrailia not being considered an island:

• Denmark web page
• about.com
• the Guiness Book of World Records
• an on-line dictionary

And one reference where Australia is called an island:

• an official Australian government web page

So far, we have four citations of Australia not being called and island and one of it being called an island. Other citations are welcome here. Samboy 00:01, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Australia is an island

The following is a small list of citations that refer to Australia as an "island", "island nation" or "island continent":

Government references

• Federal Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade
• Federal Dept of the Environment & Heritage 1
• Federal Dept of the Environment & Heritage 2
• Australian Defense Force site
• Royal Australian Navy site 1
• Royal Australian Navy site 2
• Australian Broadcasting Corporation - Australia's government-owned national broadcaster.
• National Australia Day Council - note comments by 2002 Young Australian of the Year, who is assistant curator of Palaeontology & Geology at the Queensland Museum.

University, scientific, school and specialist references

• Australian Academy of Science
• University of Miami
• Curtin University
• Lighthouses Australia
• Volunteering Australia
• Australian Survivalist
• Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology
• YMCA Australia
• Murdoch University

Commercial references

• QANTAS - Australia's national airline.
• Australian Arab Chamber of Commerce

General references

--Gene_poole 01:15, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think this pretty strongly demonstrates that Australia being called an island. I have reverted the page to Gene Poole's last edit where Australia is considered an island. Samboy 19:42, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hong Kong

Quote from history

Huaiwei: Hong Kong is not an "Island Nation"

An anonymous reader: Crown Colony of Hong Kong was founded with 1 main island (HK Island) with other areas added afterwards, Taiwan is still using ROC as official title, ...

Huaiwei: Please refer to all other examples in this page to better understand what an "island nation" really is. Hong Kong is simply not one now.

Endquote

I don't see any reason why from 1841 to 1860 Hong Kong wasn't an island nation. In those time the Crown Colony of Hong Kong comprised of Hong Kong Island, Ap Lei Chau, and numerous islands close by. Among all Hong Kong Island is the biggest, and made up the majority of the crown colony. And Hong Kong does fit into the category "former colonies, possessions, protectorates and territories". Vancouver Island, Newfoundland and Tasmania are all listed as a island nations which were former colonies, possessions, protectorates and territories. If you insist "Hong Kong is simply not one (an island nation) now", could you please kindly let me know why, and if I have made reference to the wrong examples. Thank you.

Republic of China (Taiwan)

Quote from history

Taiwan is still using ROC as official title, Taiwan in brackets is to avoid confusions

Endquote

In many pages across Misplaced Pages Taiwan or the ROC is listed with both "Republic of China" (or in short "ROC") and "Taiwan" shown, with either one in bracket, for the convenience of users and accurate description of the state. Why the edits were kept reverted? Thank you.