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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Waiting for "Superman" article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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Cornel West quote

Nightscream just removed an unsourced quote from Princeton academic per WP:NOR and WP:V. I don't disagree with that. I found the quote here so there is now a reference if we decide to put this back in. I'm not opposed to it, but since all I found is Professor West's note on his facebook page, I'm torn as to whether this quote is actually notable. I will leave it to others to decide.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

For what it's worth, West's description of the Finnish school system is mostly wrong.--Victor Chmara (talk) 22:34, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Can you elaborate, Victor? What are the facts? We would like to know. --seberle (talk) 23:54, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

West is correct about 90+ percent of Finnish teachers being unionized and about the lack of standardized tests, but he's wrong about class size, teacher-student ratio, and teacher salaries. The average class size in Finnish schools is about 20 (this includes small elective classes; the class size is probably >20 in most cases). There are certainly not two teachers per class (although some classes may have teaching assistants who are not qualified teachers). There are experimental classes in some schools where special ed. students are "integrated" to regular classes, with two teachers, but this is not typical. West's claim that Finnish teachers "receive the salaries of many of our businesspeople" is a bit vague, but in 2008 the average monthly salary for Finnish primary school teachers was about 3600 euros, whereas for those with an MBA degree it was about 5600 euros . It is generally thought that primary school teacher salaries in Finland are on the low side considering that you need a Master's degree for the job.--Victor Chmara (talk) 03:11, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

thesis

What is the thesis of the film? What is the superman? who is waiting for him? Should we wait for superman? It appears from the criticism that this film advocates some action on education, but what? 71.194.44.209 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:33, 9 May 2011 (UTC).

This is not the first time this question has come up. Someone should really write a summary of the film for this article. --seberle (talk) 16:50, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I also came here for a summary. Blue Rasberry (talk) 18:50, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Inaccuracies?

There are three paragraphs (two substantial) about inaccuracies in the film. Yet there is only one actual inaccuracy cited. (and even this is debatable. It is common to use proficiency as a measure of how many students are reading at grade level. I've seen numerous public school teachers do the same).

We should replace these paragraphs with a catalog of the inaccuracies, and a statement that "supporters of public education and unions have lambasted the movie". (we already have plenty of cites, but we need more inaccuracies. In general, we should avoid calling anything inaccurate unless we can make a statement: Movie said X, but this is contradicted by Y. That is also much more useful to readers of the article, who are probably reading the section about inaccuracies specifically looking for statements in this format.)

If these paragraphs are also supposed to be about "educational reception", then we are missing the (easily located) quotes from educators who have praised the movie. I'll leave this here for comments before doing anything. 72.69.159.191 (talk) 23:23, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Graph located under "Educational reception and allegations of inaccuracy"

The graph is horrific and very misleading. It makes it look as thought the schools with no significant difference far outnumber the other two categories, when in fact each of the 3 "Average" scores should be located at the same level. Also the scaling numbers on the side of the graph do not correspond AT ALL to the percentages displayed above each of the columns.

If someone wants to try to change this, please do. I don't currently have time for another week and a half, by which time I'll have probably forgotten I was going to do it.

Also, I'm not entirely sure I know how to edit image files on Misplaced Pages. Is it done the same way as the text? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmpatison (talk • contribs) 02:12, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Liberal Bias

The enormous amount of text devoted to criticism in this article is one of the most egregious examples of liberal bias in Misplaced Pages. Compare with the article Race to Nowhere, which has very minimal text devoted to criticism. --Westwind273 (talk) 19:59, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

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