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Revision as of 21:31, 10 August 2018 editTide rolls (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled219,196 edits →Result concerning Noto-Ichinose: wow← Previous edit Revision as of 21:39, 10 August 2018 edit undoBishonen (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators80,335 edits →Result concerning Noto-Ichinose: 48 hoursNext edit →
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* Clear case of go-ahead-block-me-see-what-I-care. --] 20:51, 10 August 2018 (UTC) * Clear case of go-ahead-block-me-see-what-I-care. --] 20:51, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
*Concur. I'm convinced they don't care. ]] 21:31, 10 August 2018 (UTC) *Concur. I'm convinced they don't care. ]] 21:31, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
*I disagree with my honourable friends Sarek and Tide rolls; I think it's a case of I-have-no-idea-what-topic-ban-means-and-I-don't-want-to-find-out. It's surprisingly common, and therefore I generally give topic banned editors one vio for free, with a mere warning. This, though, isn't one vio, it's nine, and there was obviously no time to warn. I recommend a 48-hour block. ] &#124; ] 21:39, 10 August 2018 (UTC).

Revision as of 21:39, 10 August 2018

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    פֿינצטערניש

    User blocked and topic-banned. Sandstein 08:39, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning פֿינצטערניש

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Icewhiz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:45, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    פֿינצטערניש (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBPIA3#500/30 + incivility
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 12:50, 4 August 2018 Conflict related edit to conflict related page.
    2. 18:38, 4 August 2018 user apprised of general prohibition and its applicability to their edits, which they acknowledged - 19:22, 4 August 2018.
    3. 19:26, 4 August 2018 Conflict related edit to conflict related page.
    4. 22:20, 4 August 2018 Personal attack
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    08:08, 3 August 2018 notified.
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Note that the user changed their username from Finsternish to פֿינצטערניש on 11:47, 3 August 2018 - the DS alert was issued to Finsternish prior to this.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    notified


    Discussion concerning פֿינצטערניש

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by פֿינצטערניש

    If you look on the edit history of the page about Dareen Tatour you will see that my edits were removing several clear attempts to push the reporting user's POV, which the user was blatantly re-adding. They were even working to make the article conform more to their POV by removing statements that were previously in the lead, such as the condemnation of Tatour's arrest, imprisonment, and conviction at the hands of the Israeli police and justice system, despite this international condemnation being the sole reason for her notability (after all, not all of the thousands of people convicted of terrorism charges in Israel for social media posts has a Misplaced Pages page).

    The user responded by threatening to report me for editing an article despite having less than 500 edits. I responded by insulting them, because it was clear to me that they had no concern whatsoever for the quality of Misplaced Pages and were only there to make Israel look good. In their eyes, Misplaced Pages should toe the Israeli government's party line and make excuses for it, rather than reporting on all the facts. And they are willing to go to any means necessary - including abuse of systems such as this one - to ensure that their POV is represented.

    See also the discussion on the talk page for Human Rights on Israel - a page that, unlike the one on Dareen Tatour, is protected against me editing it, which is the reasonable way to enforce such an arbitration decision - where I ask that something be added to the article and the user responds by parroting the Israeli government's party line instead of agreeing to edit the article to point out the controversy over Israel's suppression of poets, and its condemnation at the hands of one of the oldest free speech advocacy organizations in the world with a long history of condemning injustice everywhere, not just Israel.

    I stand by all of this. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 07:43, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    I'd also like to add that if Israel wants Misplaced Pages to make them look good, it should stop doing things that are indefensible instead of getting other people to control the facts that end up in encyclopedias about it. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 07:46, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    On the point about protecting the article being the reasonable method of enforcement: The reporting user could have simply asked an administrator to protect the page, so why did they instead leave a message on my talk page telling me that I'm not allowed to edit it? The former method is a fool-proof way of making sure that contributors with less than 500 edits to the English Misplaced Pages can't edit; the latter only informs one user. So what was the reason? Because they are a bumbler with no conception of how Misplaced Pages works? Or was there some ulterior motive? It doesn't look like it's the former. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 08:30, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning פֿינצטערניש

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • @פֿינצטערניש: The problem is not with what you write, but that you are prohibited from editing pages that are related to the Arab-Israeli conflict until you meet the criteria in WP:ARBPIA3#500/30. You have disregarded a notification to that effect. In enforcement of the restriction, you are therefore blocked for a week. In addition, you are treating Misplaced Pages as an ideological battleground, with statements such as "it's entirely possible you're being paid for this, because I know not every IDF soldier is physically fit enough to go toe-to-toe with Palestinian babies" and "I don't think you have Misplaced Pages in mind; I think you have Israel in mind". This is prohibited, see WP:AGF, WP:BATTLEGROUND. We cannot let people with such an attitude edit high-tension, controversial topics. Consequently, you are topic-banned from anything related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. I will lift this ban after you have had six months of experience of editing Misplaced Pages productively and without conflict in other topic areas. Sandstein 08:38, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    Philip Cross

    No action. Sandstein 19:30, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    On 26 July 2018, ArbCom indefinitely topic banned User:Philip Cross from edits relating to post-1978 British politics, broadly construed.

    On 3 August 2018, Cross made a series of five consecutive edits to the BLP of British journalist Decca Aitkenhead. According to our BLP, Aitkenhead in 2009 won Interviewer of the Year at the British Press Awards, having "particularly impressed the judges with her remarkable encounter" with Alistair Darling, a Labour Party politician who served as Chancellor of the Exchequer from 2007–2010. Before moving this month to The Sunday Times, Decca Aitkenhead wrote for The Guardian, where she most recently (27 Jul 2018) interviewed Salisbury MP John Glen, an incumbent British Conservative Party politician. Such professional activity puts Aitkenhead squarely within the scope of Philip Cross's topic ban relating to post-1978 British politics.

    On 5 August 2018, Cross made a series of fifteen consecutive edits to the BLP of British actor and politician Andrew Faulds. According to our BLP, Faulds entered British politics in 1963. His obituary in The Telegraph, cited in our BLP, reports that as a Labour MP, Faulds twice served as front-bench arts spokesman in the British House of Commons. He held that post until sacked in May 1982. Such professional activity puts Faulds squarely within the scope of Philip Cross's topic ban relating to post-1978 British politics.

    This ANI discussion request for enforcement is not about the content of Cross's edits but solely about his flouting of ArbCom's indefinite topic ban just nine days after it was imposed. KalHolmann (talk) 22:00, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    • Update as of 7 August 2018. At another page, one of the drafting arbitrators of ArbCom's sanctions against Philip Cross has clarified this issue. "We definitely did not intend the topic ban to be construed to not apply to some edits to pages about the topic area," writes User:BU Rob13. "All topic bans apply to such edits. We chose the wording of 'all edits' rather than 'all pages' to emphasize that even edits that cover the topic on pages that do not typically cover the topic are covered, which is the standard meaning of a topic ban. If we intended to place a restriction other than a topic ban, we would not have called it such. I think even the admins at AE occasionally need a reminder not to wikilawyer - a topic ban is a topic ban. If it helps, we can strike 'all edits about' and just say Philip Cross is topic banned from the topic area." (Emphasis added.) I urge the closing administrator of this request for enforcement to give BU Rob13's clarification the full weight it deserves and to not be misled by the uninvolved administrators' unanimity below—which happens to be unanimously wrong. This infraction by Philip Cross is fully actionable. KalHolmann (talk) 17:02, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by Philip Cross

    Decca Aitkenhead is a journalist specialising in interviews of prominent people rather than a political journalist except for occasionally interviewing politicians. The changes to this article are here and do not contain any mention of politics. The edits to the article about Andrew Faulds I made earlier today are here. It can be seen that I made no edit about Faulds post-1978 career. The topic ban does not include post-1978 sources, unless "broadly construed" includes post-1978 journalism about pre-1978 events too. Philip Cross (talk) 22:10, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
    Reverted my recent edits to the Aitkenhead, Faulds and Colin Jordan articles. Philip Cross (talk) 22:28, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by JzG

    What doing is called Wikilawyering. It never works. Your topic ban scope is unambiguous, and the Faulds article is unambiguously within that scope. We can do without KalHolmann's creative interpretations of scope, which are unnecessary here. Guy (Help!) 22:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    • Recommendation: Close as no action base don the self-revert, and counsel KalHolmann not to engage in creative interpretations of scope as part of his ongoing campaign against PC. That only weakens his case and reduces the chances of decisive action when an unambiguous breach does happen. Guy (Help!) 12:14, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by Huldra

    Well, since Philip Cross has self reverted, my 2 cents is that he should be let of the hook, for now...BUT with a stern warning that any new infractions will be sternly dealt with. Huldra (talk) 23:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by RebeccaSaid

    Cross is a highly experienced, long term editor. He is, beyond any shadow of doubt, fully aware of the boundaries of his Topic Ban; post 1978 British Politics broadly construed. Both Andrew Faulds and Colin Jordan fall within that scope. The content of the edits themselves are irrelevant. He is pushing the boundaries.

    Broadly construed "Broadly construed means that one shouldn't attempt to "nibble around the edges", so to speak.... If there's doubt, don't do it, and get clarification first". Don't be fooled by claims of misconstrual, he is too well versed in the system for that. --RebeccaSaid (talk) 09:40, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

    Please see clarification from the case drafting Arbitrator. Clarification: BLP issues on British politics articles
    A Topic Ban is a Topic Ban, irrespective of the mental gymnastics used to turn it into a Topic Ban Lite. Cross' edits, self-reverted after the fact, fall within that reach and should be recognised for what they are. --RebeccaSaid (talk) 17:25, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    Actually I have a question around self-reverting. The implication here appears to be that Cross can edit wherever and, as long as he self-reverts when his edits are flagged up as potentially problematic, that's fine? Yes or na? --RebeccaSaid (talk) 18:37, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by 2017 Complainant

    In the light of the authoritative statement below specifying the scope of the topic ban, much of the earlier discussion here, including my censored contributions, is no longer relevant. The edits themselves have been reverted and were in any case innocuous, problematic only in that they violated the ban.

    I suggest that this enforcement request should therefore be closed forthwith, because there is nothing that needs to be done. The ban violation, which must now be recognised as a fact, can be appropriately taken into account later, when and if any appeal by Philip Cross is received and considered. 121.72.182.89 (talk) 14:20, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by Govindaharihari

    If that passes it will be a good clarificaion and one that I'm sure Phillip will take on board from now on, there won't be any need for admin actions on this report.Govindaharihari (talk) 17:23, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Philip Cross

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I would close this as not actionable. The wording of the remedy is in relevant part: "Philip Cross is indefinitely topic banned from edits relating to post-1978 British politics". This is more restrictive than a usual topic ban per WP:TBAN: while a usual topic ban covers both pages related to the topic and edits related to the topic, the unusual wording of the remedy ("banned from edits relating to ...") indicates that this ban is intended to cover only edits related to the topic. The normal wording would have been something like "banned from anything related to ...". In this case, the edits as such were not related to politics, and the remedy was therefore not violated. Sandstein 06:54, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
      • ”Anything related to” is not the standard wording. A topic ban is defined in the wikilink included in the remedy. Any edit to a page relating to post-1978 British politics is covered. This is a standard topic ban. ~ Rob13 13:18, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    • @BU Rob13: Thanks for the feedback, but the remedy as written appears to contradict itself. While it links to WP:TBAN, which defines a standard topic ban that includes both topic-related edits and other edits to topic-related pages, the clause "edits relating to" has, as I read it, a limiting effect such that only topic-related edits are prohibited, not other edits to topic-related pages. To avoid such uncertainty, I recommend that future remedies are worded to only make reference to WP:TBAN without additional clauses, e.g., "... is topic-banned (WP:TBAN) from British politics". Based on the current wording, I myself would take no action here, although of course other admins are free to interpret the remedy differently and take action. Sandstein 13:28, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    • Agree with Sandstein, the TBAN specifies edits relating to post-1978 politics, not a ban from editing pages containing content relating to post-1978 politics. And so no action should be taken. That being said, 99.9% of Misplaced Pages articles contain no link whatsoever to post-1978 British politics, and it would probably be sensible for Mr Cross to stick to those, as eventually this testing of the waters will result in a collective cessation of patience. Fish+Karate 13:07, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
    • I suggest closing as no action based on the self-revert. Given Sandstein’s reading I would also suggest interested parties take this to ARCA because I have a suspicion that the committee intended a standard TBAN. (@JzG: you may be the best to do it, since you’re familiar with both the case and how ArbCom works.) TonyBallioni (talk) 00:15, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    WP:TENFOOTPOLE, mate. The partisans (other than PC, who seems quite sanguine about the whole thing) don't accept me as an honest broker. Guy (Help!) 18:57, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    • I, too, would close this as not actionable. While this diff gave me pause, reading through it carefully shows that Philip Cross followed the his restriction as written. Were that not enough, he self-reverted, suggesting an abundance of caution. Now had the restriction been worded the normal way this would have been a violation, so I, too, recommend ARCA if this is in doubt. Since there is no support for a sanction here, I will close this as "not actionable" shortly if no further comments come in. Vanamonde (talk) 10:48, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    • No admins seem to be interested in taking action at this time, particularly in view of the self-reverts. I'm therefore closing this. The scope of the topic ban is likely to be clarified in the WP:ARCA thread. Sandstein 19:30, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by פֿינצטערניש

    Appeal declined. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:42, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
    Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

    To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

    Appealing user
    פֿינצטערניש (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – פֿינצטערניש (talk) 09:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
    Sanction being appealed
    Topic ban from the Israel-Palestinian conflict
    Administrator imposing the sanction
    Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Notification of that administrator
    The only possible notification I can give is this: @Sandstein:. I am not able to edit their talk page. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 09:24, 5 August 2018 (UTC) Here is the diff of the notification I just gave. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 09:25, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
    I have also sent the following email to Sandstein, and am including the whole thing for transparency's sake.
    If you copy this to your talk page, please do not include my email address.
    First, I wanted to inform you, if you weren't aware, that I have appealed my ban from the topic of the Arab-Israeli conflict, and that I was unable to edit your talk page in order to notify you of this, so the best I could do was ping you and send this email.
    Secondly, it's obviously not true that the issue isn't with what I am writing, for a few reasons:
    1. Icewhiz has demonstrated a clear problem with what I am writing or requesting be written, as shown on the discussion page for "Human rights in Israel", where my request that information about a controversy be added was immediately met with a purely political, purely opinionated response.
    2. Icewhiz chose this route specifically instead of simply asking you to protect the page.
    3. Icewhiz has shown no good-faith interest in keeping any of the edits that were made to the article that would benefit the reader in getting a full picture of the controversy surrounding Dareen Tatour. Good faith means that if something would help an article, you keep it while also protecting the page. Bad faith means that you use policy to keep it out of the page, without addressing the content. This is obviously an attempt to use policy to control what facts end up in an article. Otherwise, the edits would not be reverted; the articles would be protected and the edits would be considered on their merits.
    So obviously the issue is with what I am writing.
    פֿינצטערניש (talk) 10:16, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by פֿינצטערניש

    I was not treating Misplaced Pages as a battleground, nor was I arbitrarily assuming bad faith. In fact I had first begun to interact with User:Icewhiz through a straightforward request that a controversy over Dareen Tatour, one condemned by PEN International, be added to the page on human rights in Israel, which was protected against my editing it. On the other hand, their responses, seen at Talk:Human rights in Israel#Dareen Tatour, make it clear that they were there, from the start, to make the discussion political rather than about whether condemnation from international human rights organizations should be added to the article.

    Subsequently I edited an article on Dareen Tatour to remove loaded language and add condemnation from other groups (PEN International in addition to PEN America). This article was not protected. But instead of asking an administrator to protect the page, they chose to inform me specifically about it, which makes me wonder what they would have done if someone who agreed with them had made edits to the page. They then proceeded to remove from the lead of the article all information (existing prior to my edit) about the fact that Tatour's conviction and sentencing was widely condemned by human rights activists, an omission (or erasure) of facts that they have shown no interest, even now, in correcting. The lead, as it stands right now as of this edit to my statement, still omits the primary reason for her notability, which makes it obvious that this had nothing to do with informing me that I wasn't allowed to edit the article; the intent was specifically to omit facts. Thus my conclusion of bad faith was the only reasonable one. I considered their warning a blatant abuse of the discretionary sanctions, because it was. Anyone who genuinely wanted to help the project would have seen the problem as the page's lack of protection, not the fact that I specifically was editing it. As I stated in my original defense, the user is either a bumbler who doesn't understand Misplaced Pages or they have an ulterior motive, and the former is obviously untrue. They obviously know Misplaced Pages in and out.

    My assumption of bad faith on the part of Icewhiz, and subsequent response, was only after interacting with the individual and observing their behavior. I do not see Misplaced Pages as a battleground; I simply find it important that all the facts be added to articles, whereas despite Icewhiz's thorough knowledge of Misplaced Pages policies and awareness of how to use them against anyone who brings up facts that make Israel look bad, they are clearly using the site as a battleground. This is evident from the actions they take and the general theme of their responses to the discussion on Dareen Tatour - which, unlike my initial comment, were specifically political from the very start. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 09:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC) additions and redaction of a misspelling in italics פֿינצטערניש (talk) 09:20, 5 August 2018 (UTC) bolded the word arbitrarily which had already been italicized in my first edit פֿינצטערניש (talk) 09:21, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by Sandstein

    I'm copying what I wrote on the user's talk page in response to this appeal: "I have read your appeal below and will not be lifting the ban. In your appeal, you are mostly blaming the other user for what you consider their inappropriate conduct. This is inappropriate in an appeal; see, by analogy, WP:NOTTHEM. You do not address your own conduct by which you accuse the other user, multiple times and without evidence, of being a paid agent of the state of Israel and of spreading propaganda for that state. Wikipedians are expected to assume good faith towards one another, and to resolve disagreements about article content by discussing the merits of the content, not by attacking one another personally and casting aspersions against the other and their motives. See, generally, WP:AGF, WP:BATTLEGROUND, WP:ASPERSIONS. Because you do not understand and abide by these basic conduct requirements, I believe that you should not be editing controversial topics for the time being." Sandstein 06:25, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by Onceinawhile

    I edited alongside this editor at Dareen Tatour.

    Their behavior at that page was constructive and source-based, in contrast to that of the editor who brought this case to AE.

    This editor’s English wikipedia contributions are limited, but they have made 3,300 edits globally. @Sandstein: could there have been a process mistake here? ARBPIA3 does not specify that the 500 edits need to be made to English wikipedia...

    If the editor would take it upon themselves to apologize for the personal attacks against Icewhiz, and the failure to WP:AGF, I would be supportive of them being given a second chance. Their edits so far show the potential to be additive to this project, and I think we might have been guilty of WP:DONTBITE a little too soon. Onceinawhile (talk) 15:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    I am willing to apologize for the personal attacks against @Icewhiz:, and for the assumption that they were deliberately spreading propaganda, as well as the implication that they might be doing so for money. I'm aware that such behavior on my part can be toxic and make collaboration difficult. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 19:33, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
    And I am also willing to commit, for the sake of the project as a whole and for the sake of an atmosphere conducive to collaboration between all editors, to no longer making such accusations against anyone without direct smoking-gun evidence, no matter how strongly I believe them. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 19:36, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by Icewhiz

    I politely informed the user of the DS regime and the general prohibition. To which they responded with this, this, and this - calling into question my physical fitness as well as my editing. I will note I chose to report this not only after fully notifying the user of the DS sanctions, but also a a further specific exploratory note on the general prohibition and its applicability to their edits.

    As for the "additive potential" and DONTBITE - the user has an on-off record on en-wiki dating back to 2015 - including such BLP questionable edits such as this on 5 January 2017 which categorized a BLP as a Nazi, and edits on other Wiki projects. I will note the following edit performed on 21 July 2018 across a number of Wiki projects - an.wiki, el.wiki, simple.wiki tr.wiki - in which Israel was modified to a theocracy. A similar edit was also performed on the same date on this this project - en.wiki. This change was reverted as un-constructive across all the wiki projects I looked at.Icewhiz (talk) 06:02, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by Shrike

    Though the user was topic banned he still use his talk page to violate his ban.@Sandstein:,@Fish and karate: could someone revoke his talk page access thanks --Shrike (talk) 05:45, 7 August 2018 (UTC) @Dweller:You misread the ARBCOM decision "All IP editors, accounts with fewer than 500 edits" As the user was account with fewer then 500 edits this sanction is apply to him --Shrike (talk) 12:33, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by E. M. Gregory

    • My error. I had taxed the editor with holding a discussion on a persoanl talk page that ought have been at the article's talk page, and when s/he asked me to move it, I thought, well, I complained, so I'm morally obligated to comply with the request. Although I can see that I wought to have wondered why s/he was blocked form that a page, i never had that thought. What I felt was that I had been rude to an editor I had no previous relationship with, and that it was only polite to help her/him out by making the move. This sort of imbroglio is why I mostly stick to adding content. And to the more black-and-white judgments at AfD. I see now that I ought to wonder why the editor was not allowed to join the discussion.E.M.Gregory (talk) 09:30, 7 August 2018 (UTC) This comment was made in response to Fish&Karate below: moved here by Vanamonde (talk) 10:41, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

    Statement by (involved editor 5)

    Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by פֿינצטערניש

    • Any discussion about the contents of פֿינצטערניש's edits, or of the general value of the editor to Misplaced Pages, appear to be completely irrelevant, since Sandstein writes explicitly that the block was not based on the content of the edits, but was because the editor didn't qualify to edit in that subject area at all due to WP:ARBPIA3#500/30, and had been told so before they continued to make edits there. Unless it can be shown that these facts are wrong, that the editor was qualified to edit in the ARBPIA area, or that they were actually never informed of that restriction, then the block should stand as legitimate. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:21, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
    • I'm a bit puzzled by the initial warning: this account was not an IP, so not subject to edit count, and had edits much older than 30 days, so why did this even start, Icewhiz? That said, my advice to פֿינצטערניש is to withdraw this request and reflect and return with a less adversarial attitude and a different approach before asking for the sanction/block to be lifted. Your first responses to Icewhiz screams out that your personality is not suited to collaborative editing here. Demonstrate to us that that wasn't so. Because at the moment, you're reinforcing the perception, not overcoming it. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:28, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    Ah. There's an embiguity in the ruling caused by an Oxford comma. "All IP editors, accounts with fewer than 500 edits, and accounts with less than 30 days tenure". The comma before the "and" implied to me that the words preceding it apply only to IPs. So it read to me that IP editors are welcome if they have more than 500 edits and 30 days and registered accounts just need 30 days. If that is not the case, this is poor drafting and should be fixed. Bump that up to Arbcom. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:32, 7 August 2018 (UTC) Shrike see this addition. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:34, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    Suggested revision: "All IP editors are prohibited from editing ... Registered accounts with fewer than 500 edits and with less than 30 days tenure are also prohibited." Sparse language that's unclear is a bad idea. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:37, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    No, must be "fewer than 500 edits OR with less than 30 days tenure". (Not commenting on case, since involved.) Zero 12:55, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    Making my point about poor drafting even more strongly. We need to bounce this up. Any Arbs watching this? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 13:01, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    Yes, I've passed the issue on to our mailing list. I had no idea it was being interpreted in such different ways. So far as I've understood it it's "and", not or, and at times the clock has been reset on editors gaming the system - the edit clock, that is, we can't reset the actual time. Otherwise all an editor would have to do is register an account and wait 30 days, which was never the intent. Doug Weller talk 13:19, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    Thanks Doug. (For those who are confused, I am not Doug and, to the best of my knowledge, Doug is not me. See the banner at the top of my user page). --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:04, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    Dweller, it means the equivalent of extended confirmed, which is both. The reasons 30/500 blocks have become more common this year is because all of the main ARBIPA3 articles have been protected, meaning that users who are committed to editing in the area (and are usually POV-pushers) have started as a trend to seek out obscure articles related to the conflict to edit to the point where blocks have unfortunately been necessary rather than ECPing every possible article in relevant category trees by hand. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    Thanks Tony. Whatever we mean, we ought to say it, and say it clearly. Especially if it's going to be thrown (gently or not) in the faces of newbies. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:04, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

    Result of the appeal by פֿינצטערניש

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Recommend not removing the block, and allowing it to stand. The entirety of פֿינצטערניש's appeal is focused on pointing out what Icewhiz has done wrong, rather than taking responsibility for their own actions, which were a clear breach of ARBPIA3, and which is just reinforcing the fact that פֿינצטערניש has issues with BATTLEGROUND. Fish+Karate 13:12, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
      • I think it's also worth warning פֿינצטערניש that one further instance of using their talk page to create content in breach of the topic ban (as they did here: ) will see a lengthier block imposed, with talk page access removed. And I'm going to politely remind E.M.Gregory (talk · contribs) that proxying for a topic-banned and/or blocked user as they did here is not ok, as they may not be aware of this. Fish+Karate 09:14, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
        • Note: comment by E. M. Gregory moved to separate section above: it can be bureaucratic, I know, but the sections are there for a reason.
        • Is cool. Fish+Karate 09:40, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
          • I have removed פֿינצטערניש's talk page access for the duration of the block, as they are again using their talk page to produce edits about a topic from which they are now banned (). They can appeal this via UTRS. If this means I am now 'involved' (I'm never quite sure what constitutes involvement, it's nebulous) then please feel free to move my comments appropriately. If the removal of talk page access is inappropriate then any admin may feel free undo that tweak to the block without prior consultation with me. My suggestion is to concurrently extend the block duration, but I'll leave that as a matter for discussion here. Fish+Karate 12:56, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
            • I edit-conflicted with you while attempting to revert their addition and leave a warning saying that talk page access would be pulled the next time, but I think pulling immediately was also within discretion. This does not make you involved, as as far as I am aware, you have only interacted with them in an administrative capacity. Vanamonde (talk) 13:20, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    • Reading through this mess, I see two legitimate questions we need to address; 1) whether edits outside en.wiki contribute towards the 500/30 requirement (it's not made explicit at WP:ARBPIA3, but common sense would suggest "no") and 2) whether the 500/30 requirement should be enforced via t-bans or page protections, other things being equal. That said; the language used by the appealing user is appalling, and their appeal addresses none of their own behavior, so I would deny the appeal at this time. Vanamonde (talk) 10:37, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
      Agree that only edits on en.wiki should count towards the 500/30 requirement. Edits on other wikimedia projects will/may have different requirements, policies, etc, and are not analogous. Fish+Karate 10:49, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
      The intent was that this would cover only en.wiki actions. We can't anticipate every page where 500/30 will be relevant, so I'd say T-bans. Doug Weller talk 13:26, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
    • Per my comments above, the block is certainly good: the user isn’t extended confirmed and never has been, which from a functional level is what the restriction means and how it has traditionally been interpreted (namely, the conditions for extended confirmed were designed to match this restriction.)To Vanamonde93’s point re TBAN’s: see my response to Dweller above. We’re quickly reaching the point of diminishing returns on further ECP (it should still be done, but we can’t reasonably be expected to protect every article in the topic area, and those who want to be disruptive have proven this year that they will find the unprotected articles.) I personally prefer enforcement through blocks to TBANs in these cases, but I think Sandstein was within discretion, so I’m endorsing both the block and the TBAN. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:10, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

    Noto-Ichinose

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Noto-Ichinose

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    GorillaWarfare (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:43, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Noto-Ichinose (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons#Final decision :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    Rapid additions of the AfD template to BLP articles. No AfDs have actually been created so far, only the templates were added. These are the first edits after the user came off a 72 hour block a few days ago, and after the BLP topic ban was imposed.

    1. 18:41, 10 August 2018 UTC
    2. 18:42, 10 August 2018 UTC
    3. 18:43, 10 August 2018 UTC
    4. 18:43, 10 August 2018 UTC
    5. 18:43, 10 August 2018 UTC
    6. 18:45, 10 August 2018 UTC
    7. 18:45, 10 August 2018 UTC
    8. 18:45, 10 August 2018 UTC
    9. 18:45, 10 August 2018 UTC
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 16:38, 6 August 2018 72-hour block for "Disruptive editing--POV editing, edit warring, unwarranted warnings, and finally an ANI boomerang (thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=853728167)"
    2. 17:21, 6 August 2018‎ Topic ban from BLP edits
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The diffs pretty much speak for themselves. GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:43, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Noto-Ichinose

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Noto-Ichinose

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Noto-Ichinose

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.