| Revision as of 21:26, 8 November 2006 editDe Administrando Imperio (talk | contribs)15,522 edits →Title← Previous edit | Revision as of 23:22, 8 November 2006 edit undoAecis (talk | contribs)36,712 edits →Title: Tally updated again... Final warning. Users will be blocked if they move the article againNext edit → | ||
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| In its short existence, this article has already been moved <s>twice</s> three times. The issue seems to be whether what happened was an incident or a massacre. Before we descend into a revert/move war, please discuss the article's title here. ]] <sup>] to electro-pop ] from 1984.</sup> 16:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | In its short existence, this article has already been moved <s>twice</s> <s>three</s> a staggering eight times. The issue seems to be whether what happened was an incident or a massacre. Before we descend into a revert/move war, please discuss the article's title here. ]] <sup>] to electro-pop ] from 1984.</sup> 16:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | ||
| :I prefer massacre. Since it was apparently deliberate, killing many civilians, and widely called so--''']'''<sub>]</sub> 16:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | :I prefer massacre. Since it was apparently deliberate, killing many civilians, and widely called so--''']'''<sub>]</sub> 16:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | ||
| :: It wasn't deliberate. If you'll check the facts you see that only one shell, out of 12 shot, hit the Palestinians. A straying shell is an accident, and since there was no intention killing civilians - it is not a massacre. ] 16:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | :: It wasn't deliberate. If you'll check the facts you see that only one shell, out of 12 shot, hit the Palestinians. A straying shell is an accident, and since there was no intention killing civilians - it is not a massacre. ] 16:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | ||
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| :: Massacre must be deliberate. Accident is no massacre. ] 21:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | :: Massacre must be deliberate. Accident is no massacre. ] 21:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | ||
| yes the grenades were exploded by accident --] (]) 21:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | yes the grenades were exploded by accident --] (]) 21:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | ||
| ==Final warning== | |||
| Ok, I've had enough of it. This article has been moved eight times in the eleven hours that it exists. The last three moves occurred in the space of twenty minutes. Whoever moves the page again before consensus has been reached, will be blocked for 24 hours. Anyone. Even if you move it back to the current title. ]] <sup>] to electro-pop ] from 1984.</sup> 23:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 23:22, 8 November 2006
Title
In its short existence, this article has already been moved twice three a staggering eight times. The issue seems to be whether what happened was an incident or a massacre. Before we descend into a revert/move war, please discuss the article's title here. Aecis 16:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- I prefer massacre. Since it was apparently deliberate, killing many civilians, and widely called so--Nielswik(talk) 16:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- It wasn't deliberate. If you'll check the facts you see that only one shell, out of 12 shot, hit the Palestinians. A straying shell is an accident, and since there was no intention killing civilians - it is not a massacre. MathKnight 16:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- According to the IDF none of the massacres it has commited throughout history was deliberate. You are mistaking fact for PR and taking one side's statements at face value. I vote for massacre since it involves the shelling of a mosque in which the IDF knew there were women and children protecting militants.--Burgas00 18:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- IDF knew there were women and children protecting militants - well, you admit the IDF targeted militants who used civilians as human shield. Hence, not a massacre. MathKnight 21:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- Hahaha, according to IDF? Do you honestly believe they would explicity state they're murdering civilians deliberately? It's like saying, "According to Hitler, Jews are quite evil."
To MathKnight please read some articles... This is take from the Guardian:
"At least 19 Palestinians were killed and 40 wounded when FIVE ISRAELI SHELLS hit a row of houses in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun this morning."
"A further FIVE OR SIX landed in the same vicinity over a period of 15 minutes, witnesses said."
It was definately at least 5-6 shells that landed in the same neighborhood district of Beit Hanoun, why on Earth and how on Earth the Israeli's targeted a village which is right on the Israeli border and has nothing to do with the Hamas rocket attacks is a mystery to me. They definately cannot hide behind their usual excuse of "Civilians caught in crossfire...etc..." for justifying civilian deaths anymore. As clearly there was no reason to even fire at this town. They were no militant activity at all in this town, in fact it again says on the Guardian the alleged "target", the IDF Artillery was supposed to fire at was at least 1 mile away from Beit Hanoun. I'd definately label it a massacre, it's the same as what happened in Qana, Shiyyah, Shatila, or the tons of other "incidents" of "accidental" civlian casualties. Israel's policy coudln't be anymore blatantly obvious; of targetting civlians deliberately to inflame and incite an uprising or counterattacks by Hamas or Hezbollah just so they can then justify even more extensive military operations.
Call it what it is, killing an innocennt family in their home with artillery? This is a massacre, better yet war-crime...
P.S. Oh SUPRISE, SUPRISE, MathKnight is an Israeli as well... please we don't need your pro-Zionist agenda in another Israel-related article, it is a massacre, like it or not the IDF has committed another massacre, please face the truth... 203.134.146.126 19:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)Amir
- "Witnesses said" and we know how reliable Palestinian witnesses are (they blame the IDF with radioactive candy bars and "500 massacred in Jenin". The Guardian claim it was by "tank fire" which is absurd since no tank was around miles away. According to Haaretz: "The IDF confirmed that an artillery battery containing 12 shells had aimed at a site from where Qassam rockets were fired at the southern city Ashkelon on Tuesday. The artillery fire had been intended for a location about half a kilometer from the Beit Hanun houses. At this stage it is unclear whether the incident was caused by a technical or human error." There was no intention of massacre, and the incident was a mistake as the article indicates. Further more, Israel vowed regret over the incident (unlike Palestinian terrorists who declare publicly that their intention is to kill as many civilians as possible) Since you are seeking Zionist conspiracy in every corener ("Israel's policy coudln't be anymore blatantly obvious; of targetting civlians deliberately to inflame and incite an uprising or counterattacks by Hamas or Hezbollah just so they can then justify even more extensive military operations.") you won't be bothered by the truth. Your need of Ed Huminem show that you have nothing but hatred at your side. MathKnight 21:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Massacre - whether deliberate or not. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 21:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- Massacre must be deliberate. Accident is no massacre. MathKnight 21:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
yes the grenades were exploded by accident --TheFEARgod (Ч) 21:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Final warning
Ok, I've had enough of it. This article has been moved eight times in the eleven hours that it exists. The last three moves occurred in the space of twenty minutes. Whoever moves the page again before consensus has been reached, will be blocked for 24 hours. Anyone. Even if you move it back to the current title. Aecis 23:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)