Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:30, 28 April 2019

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the September 11 attacks article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64Auto-archiving period: 30 days

Error: The code letter 9/11 for the topic area in this contentious topics talk notice is not recognised or declared. Please check the documentation.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about September 11 attacks. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about September 11 attacks at the Reference desk.

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

Template:Vital article

There is a request, submitted by Lionsdude148, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Misplaced Pages. The rationale behind the request is: "Based on the importance of the subject.".

view · edit Frequently asked questions Many of these questions arise frequently on the talk page concerning the September 11 attacks. To view an explanation to the answer, click the link to the right of the question. Q1: Is the article biased against conspiracy theories? A1: Misplaced Pages is a mainstream encyclopedia so this article presents the accepted version of the events according to reliable sources. Although reliable sources have repeatedly reported on conspiracy theories, reporting on conspiracy theories is not the same thing as advocating conspiracy theories or accepting them as fact. The most recent discussion that resulted in the current consensus took place on this talk page in December 2011. If you disagree with the current status, you are welcome to bring your concerns to the article talk page. Please read the previous discussions on this talk page and try to explain how your viewpoint provides new arguments or information that may lead to a change in consensus. Please be sure to be polite and support your views with citations from reliable sources. Q2: Should the article use the word "terrorist" (and related words)? A2: Misplaced Pages:Words to watch states that "there are no forbidden words or expressions on Misplaced Pages". That being said, "terrorism" is a word that requires extra attention when used in Misplaced Pages. The consensus, after several lengthy discussions, is that it is appropriate to use the term in a limited fashion to describe the attacks and the executors of these attacks. The contributors have arrived at this conclusion after looking at the overwhelming majority of reliable sources that use this term as well as the United Nations' own condemnation of the attacks.

	September 11 attacks is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
	September 11 attacks has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 19, 2004 Refreshing brilliant prose Kept February 26, 2004 Featured article review Demoted January 10, 2005 Featured article candidate Not promoted December 29, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted January 27, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed February 14, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed October 16, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed May 19, 2008 Good article nominee Listed May 29, 2008 Peer review Reviewed July 10, 2008 Featured article candidate Not promoted August 20, 2008 Good article reassessment Kept June 19, 2010 Good article reassessment Delisted July 5, 2011 Good article nominee Not listed July 25, 2011 Good article nominee Listed August 23, 2011 Peer review Reviewed August 30, 2011 Featured article candidate Not promoted September 25, 2011 Good article reassessment Delisted May 24, 2013 Good article nominee Not listed July 13, 2015 Good article nominee Listed October 27, 2018 Featured article candidate Not promoted Current status: Former featured article, current good article

A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on September 11, 2004, September 11, 2005, September 11, 2006, September 11, 2009, September 11, 2012, September 11, 2013, September 11, 2017, and September 11, 2018.

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Aviation: Accidents This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.AviationWikipedia:WikiProject AviationTemplate:WikiProject Aviationaviation This article is supported by the Aviation accident project. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. United States: September 11 / History Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject September 11, 2001 (assessed as Top-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. history. Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Top-importance). Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Disaster management Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Disaster managementWikipedia:WikiProject Disaster managementTemplate:WikiProject Disaster managementDisaster management Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. New York (state) Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York (state), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York (state)Misplaced Pages:WikiProject New York (state)Template:WikiProject New York (state)New York (state) Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Virginia: Northern Virginia Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Virginia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Virginia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.VirginiaWikipedia:WikiProject VirginiaTemplate:WikiProject VirginiaVirginia Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is within the scope of the Northern Virginia Task Force, a task force which is currently considered to be inactive. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. New York City Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Skyscrapers High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skyscrapers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that relate to skyscrapers on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkyscrapersWikipedia:WikiProject SkyscrapersTemplate:WikiProject SkyscrapersSkyscraper High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Pennsylvania Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pennsylvania on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PennsylvaniaWikipedia:WikiProject PennsylvaniaTemplate:WikiProject PennsylvaniaPennsylvania Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Military history: North America / United States This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history Associated task forces: /  North American military history task force United States military history task force Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Crime and Criminal Biography This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Crime and Criminal Biography This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. Template:WP1.0

This article has been mentioned by a media organization: Noam Cohen (11 September 2011). "On Misplaced Pages, Echoes of 9/11 'Edit Wars'". The New York Times.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination. Discussions: RM, September 11, 2001 attacks → September 11 attacks, Moved, 20 August 2008, Talk:September 11 attacks/Archive 44#RFC on page title and comma RM, September 11 attacks → September 11, 2001 attacks, Not moved, 13 October 2010, Talk:September 11 attacks/Archive 54#Requested move RM, September 11 attacks → 9/11, Not moved, 31 March 2014, Talk:September 11 attacks/Archive 60#Requested move 2 (or more)

The contents of the Slogans and terms derived from the September 11 attacks page were merged into September 11 attacks. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the September 11 attacks article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64Auto-archiving period: 30 days

Really? What happened to wikipedia

I've lost any trust in Misplaced Pages as a source for knowledge after reading this page. I thought Misplaced Pages attempts to provide "pure information" not propaganda or misinformation.

A few examples: 1.) In the first sentence why mention the alleged (I see no source) religious affiliations of those accused of these crimes.

2.) One cannot use the word "terrorism" to describe criminal activities and expect to be taken seriously.

3.) Misleading statements such as "The FBI concluded that there was "clear and irrefutable" evidence linking al-Qaeda and bin Laden to the attacks." Which is followed by a footnote which lacks any evidence and is simple a unsubstantiated statement by the FBI.

4.) Why include creative writing section on motive?

One could continue to find holes in much of this extremely biased piece of "free information" but most people will simple read it as the truth.

Shame on Misplaced Pages

I realize that the funding for those who influence what ends up on this page far outways that of people who would like to free knowledge, but I would hope Misplaced Pages would make a better attempt to stop money from infulencing what it claims to be truth NateDyer (talk) 06:56, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

NateDyer, I am confused. Most of your points don't make a lot of sense.

1) That sentence has 3 sources. Did you read the sources and do they not verify the religious affiliations of Al Qaeda?

2) Misplaced Pages uses what reliable sources say about the event. In this case reliable sources called this a terrorism event.

3) The evidence isn't in that document but it does verify that the FBI concluded that there was clear and irrefutable evidence that linked al-Qaeda and bin Laden to the attacks. The article is not looking at the evidence and making the conclusion the FBI did that. The article is just stating what the FBI concluded and that is sourced.

4) Can you be a little more specific on the creative writing you found in the section on the motive that isn't supported by the reliable sources in the section?

Do you have evidence that anyone has influenced the article or is that just your supposition from reading it? ~ GB fan 11:37, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

1. Why mention the religious affiliations at all? 2. Define terrorism. Good luck 3. So unsubstantiated second hand sources are acceptable on Misplaced Pages? Why? 4. You assume the guilt of Osama bin Laden with a ANY evidence of his guilt.

If wikipedia intends to be a outlet for US propaganda than this article is fine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NateDyer (talk • contribs) 20:40, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is a summary of professionally published mainstream academic or journalistic sources, with a bias towards reality-based sources. For this reason, Misplaced Pages does not treat 9/11 conspiracy theories as anything more than that -- conspiracy theories. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:24, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 December 2018

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Osamabin laden was killed by Siel Nelson 156.1.40.41 (talk) 18:21, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Source please?Slatersteven (talk) 18:22, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sam Sailor 19:09, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Please clarify

"By late June, senior counter-terrorism official..." – June of what year? 1999/2000/2001? Please clarify. 82.140.128.223 (talk) 12:27, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

If you read the preceding paragraph, it's talking about events in 2000. — The Hand That Feeds You: 14:34, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

firefighters that risked their lifes

Semi-protected edit request on 4 February 2019

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

anonymos 192.95.165.17 (talk) 18:01, 4 February 2019 (UTC) al-queada is arabic for "Leaders"

Not Done - There's no specific request here. — The Hand That Feeds You: 18:17, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Malformed request

United states 9-11-2001 wold trade canter terrcesstop atakings researchs farhan shaikh farhan mustaq ahmed shaikh 2016passportf7177858 nack farhan datebith1 10 1988. Farhan mustaq ahamed shaikh (talk) 04:58, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

What?Slatersteven (talk) 09:46, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

COI, or, Iranian subversion of Misplaced Pages?

Currently, in the introduction there is a large paragraph promoting fringe claims of involvement from the Saudi Arabian government in the attacks.

"Although not confirmed, there is evidence of alleged Saudi Arabian involvement in the attacks. Given as main evidence in these charges are the contents of the 28 redacted pages of the December 2002 Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 conducted by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. These 28 pages contain information regarding the material and financial assistance given to the hijackers and their affiliates leading up to the attacks by the Saudi Arabian government."

There are a few problems with this;

(1) the introduction is supposed to be a summary of the article itself. Claims of Saudi government involvement are not presented as heavily in the prose and are a fringe theory.

(2) the nature of the fringe claims itself is that individual corrupt actors within Saudi politics may have assisted the terrorists. Nobody claims the Saudi Arabian government as some sort of official policy endorsed this. There are fringe claims that Israeli intelligence had knowledge of the attacks before they happened, yet we don't have a paragraph of that in the article. A group of Shia (probably Iranian connected) subversives such as Ahmed Chalabi fed the US government disinfo to launch the Iraq War, even though this is undisputed, it isn't mentioned in the intro for that article.

(3) the actual Misplaced Pages article on this topic, called Alleged Saudi role in September 11 attacks, was created by and is largely the work of User:Mhhossein, who carefully guards the content as the article history shows. Mr. Hossein describes himself on his own userpage as "proud to be Iranian" and a "proud member of the Shi'a Islam task force". While of course, we must assume good faith, for such a controversial topic of major international significance, it does not bode well that somebody with such a strong natural conflict of interest would be currating the content information on it. Ishbiliyya (talk) 17:30, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages controversial topics
• Spoken Misplaced Pages requests
• Misplaced Pages former featured articles
• Misplaced Pages good articles
• History good articles
• Former good article nominees
• Old requests for peer review
• Selected anniversaries (September 2004)
• Selected anniversaries (September 2005)
• Selected anniversaries (September 2006)
• Selected anniversaries (September 2009)
• Selected anniversaries (September 2012)
• Selected anniversaries (September 2013)
• Selected anniversaries (September 2017)
• Selected anniversaries (September 2018)
• All unassessed articles
• Pages using WikiProject banner shell with duplicate banner templates
• GA-Class aviation articles
• GA-Class Aviation accident articles
• Aviation accident task force articles
• WikiProject Aviation articles
• GA-Class United States articles
• Top-importance United States articles
• GA-Class United States articles of Top-importance
• GA-Class September 11, 2001 articles
• Top-importance September 11, 2001 articles
• WikiProject September 11, 2001 articles
• GA-Class United States History articles
• Unknown-importance United States History articles
• WikiProject United States History articles
• United States History articles with to-do lists
• WikiProject United States articles
• Unassessed Crime-related articles
• Unknown-importance Crime-related articles
• Unassessed Terrorism articles
• Top-importance Terrorism articles
• Terrorism task force articles
• WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles
• GA-Class Disaster management articles
• Top-importance Disaster management articles
• GA-Class New York (state) articles
• Mid-importance New York (state) articles
• GA-Class Virginia articles
• Mid-importance Virginia articles
• WikiProject Virginia articles
• GA-Class New York City articles
• Top-importance New York City articles
• WikiProject New York City articles
• GA-Class Skyscraper articles
• High-importance Skyscraper articles
• WikiProject Skyscrapers articles and lists
• GA-Class Pennsylvania articles
• Mid-importance Pennsylvania articles
• GA-Class military history articles
• GA-Class North American military history articles
• North American military history task force articles
• GA-Class United States military history articles
• United States military history task force articles
• GA-Class Crime-related articles
• Misplaced Pages pages referenced by the press