Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 00:24, 31 May 2019 editMJL (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors42,356 edits →Statement by MJL: +← Previous edit		Revision as of 00:39, 31 May 2019 edit undoVolunteer Marek (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers94,133 edits →Statement by Volunteer Marek Next edit →
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	Can someone explain to me what "ANI thread" Sir Joseph is referring to and what the hey he is going on about? ] (]) 00:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC)		Can someone explain to me what "ANI thread" Sir Joseph is referring to and what the hey he is going on about? ] (]) 00:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

			] thanks. But I'm still at a loss as to what that has to do with this WP:AE report and why Sir Joseph is bringing it up here. He seems to be insinuating some kind of "bad" on my part in that ANI (come on man, if you think I did something wrong, have the guts to come out and say it) but there I made only one comment, in which I actually agreed with Jayjg. I guess if you want to be more precise, in that situation you got one WP:SPA tagging certain "controversial" Polish-Jewish individuals as "Jewish", while Icewhiz on the other hand is running around and trying to tag the same/similar Polish-Jewish individuals as "Polish". My point there was, that in both cases it's kind of ridiculous and WP:TEND, since both individuals ethnicity and citizenship can easily be inferred from the context. The WP:SPA got rightly blocked/banned for this. Why Icewhiz was allowed to get away with the same kind of behavior is a good question indeed.] (]) 00:39, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

	====Statement by Sir Joseph====		====Statement by Sir Joseph====

Revision as of 00:39, 31 May 2019

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BorchePetkovski

BorchePetkovski is topic banned from all areas pertaining to Macedonia, broadly construed, indefinitely. El_C 20:28, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning BorchePetkovski User who is submitting this request for enforcement MJL (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:37, 23 May 2019 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested BorchePetkovski (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Standard discretionary sanctions : Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 14 April 2019 In this edit, they try to replace Greek Macedonians with Macedonians in Greece. This is the first example is on the face of things not too bad, but they do receive a healthy warning for it from Dr.K.. Violation of MOS:MAC (disclaimer: I helped to write that guideline) 21 April 2019 User is reverted for adding unsourced content (WP:OR). 21 April 2019 User then changes the population numbers within the infobox and even breaks a source. They were then warned by Jingiby this was disruptive 29 April 2019 User seeks to change the name of the election within the infobox from 2019 North Macedonian presidential election to 2019 Macedonian presidential election. This is quickly reverted by Teratix with a note to discuss on talk. The user never takes up that offer. 1 May 2019 Same change as preceding diff of previous day. Clearly did not listen. 6 May 2019 BorchePetkovski violates WP:UNCIVIL by telling Number 57, "There is only Macedonian... What's wrong with you..." 23 May 2019 User creates a move request on a page that is currently a redirect for no clear reason. User had requested the page in question be renamed 2019 Macedonian presidential election. This was how I became aware of them. If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Additional comments by editor filing complaint 13 April 2019 User's first edit is to request 2019 North Macedonian presidential election be renamed to 2019 Macedonian presidential election. 20 April 2019 claims this is cultural GENOCIDE of Macedonians. 21 April 2019 also makes vague claims of propaganda. It is my personal opinion that the editor in question is simply WP:NOTHERE. They likely are simply an SPA used to push a POV. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 23:42, 23 May 2019 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Done. Discussion concerning BorchePetkovski Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by BorchePetkovski Statement by (username) Result concerning BorchePetkovski This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Looks fairly straight-forward. Support indefinite topic ban. El_C 23:50, 23 May 2019 (UTC) I'm tempted to close now. Was tempted to close yesterday. But I suppose we can give the editor time to respond, though that seems like more of a procedural gesture than anything. El_C 14:22, 24 May 2019 (UTC) Okay, I think we've indulged this for long enough. El_C 20:28, 24 May 2019 (UTC) I concur with El C, a topic ban from Macedonia and Macedonians, broadly interpreted would seem appropriate here. Thryduulf (talk) 10:00, 24 May 2019 (UTC) Concur with El C and Thryduulf. New editor should edit elsewhere. Jayjg 14:18, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

BorchePetkovski is topic banned from all areas pertaining to Macedonia, broadly construed, indefinitely. El_C 20:28, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning BorchePetkovski

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: MJL (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:37, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: BorchePetkovski (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Standard discretionary sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

14 April 2019 In this edit, they try to replace Greek Macedonians with Macedonians in Greece. This is the first example is on the face of things not too bad, but they do receive a healthy warning for it from Dr.K.. Violation of MOS:MAC (disclaimer: I helped to write that guideline)
21 April 2019 User is reverted for adding unsourced content (WP:OR).
21 April 2019 User then changes the population numbers within the infobox and even breaks a source. They were then warned by Jingiby this was disruptive
29 April 2019 User seeks to change the name of the election within the infobox from 2019 North Macedonian presidential election to 2019 Macedonian presidential election. This is quickly reverted by Teratix with a note to discuss on talk. The user never takes up that offer.
1 May 2019 Same change as preceding diff of previous day. Clearly did not listen.
6 May 2019 BorchePetkovski violates WP:UNCIVIL by telling Number 57, "There is only Macedonian... What's wrong with you..."
23 May 2019 User creates a move request on a page that is currently a redirect for no clear reason. User had requested the page in question be renamed 2019 Macedonian presidential election. This was how I became aware of them.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

13 April 2019 User's first edit is to request 2019 North Macedonian presidential election be renamed to 2019 Macedonian presidential election.
20 April 2019 claims this is cultural GENOCIDE of Macedonians.
21 April 2019 also makes vague claims of propaganda.

It is my personal opinion that the editor in question is simply WP:NOTHERE. They likely are simply an SPA used to push a POV. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 23:42, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Done.

Discussion concerning BorchePetkovski

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by BorchePetkovski

Statement by (username)

Result concerning BorchePetkovski

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Looks fairly straight-forward. Support indefinite topic ban. El_C 23:50, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm tempted to close now. Was tempted to close yesterday. But I suppose we can give the editor time to respond, though that seems like more of a procedural gesture than anything. El_C 14:22, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I think we've indulged this for long enough. El_C 20:28, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

I concur with El C, a topic ban from Macedonia and Macedonians, broadly interpreted would seem appropriate here. Thryduulf (talk) 10:00, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
Concur with El C and Thryduulf. New editor should edit elsewhere. Jayjg 14:18, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

SashiRolls

Awilley has applied a No personal comments restriction on SashiRolls for one year. El_C 00:24, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning SashiRolls User who is submitting this request for enforcement MrX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:11, 26 May 2019 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested SashiRolls (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced WP:ARBAPDS 1RR Misplaced Pages editors are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other editors; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct, such as personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, harassment, disruptive point-making, and gaming the system, is prohibited. Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 1RR violation 16:26, May 26, 2019 Revert 1 (Original edit) 19:38, May 26, 2019 Revert 2 (Original edit) 1RR violation 19:21, May 22, 2019 Revert 1 (Original edit) 22:13, May 22, 2019 Revert 2 (Original edit) - Request to self-revert Assumptions of bad faith, personal attacks, and WP:BATTLEGROUND editing May 26, 2019 "Of course, everyone knows that the inner cabal doesn't have to follow the rules and can bully folks around to their heart's desire. Are y'all donors? special ops? just lucky?" May 24, 2019 "Cf. wp:tag team 1) I am not your mate. 2) Cf. sources & methods Chapter 1 is gaslighting the opposition." May 25, 2019 "You are giving the appearance of doing everything you can to make Gabbard's biography look bad" ... "I personally hope it because you dislike her candidacy, rather than because you want to play psychological games with people on the internet: but neither is a good excuse for the POV editing." May 24, 2019 "I think I'll just leave AmPol2 to the trolls. Adding big blue-links to Russian media entries is obviously not standard practice, except for folks like Cirt (and others in his cabal). It is rhetoric. Ciao. " February 19, 2019 "I would remind Snoog & MrX that tag-teaming is a well-known strategy that is frowned upon." February 21, 2019 "By reverting me restoring information you removed from the lede, you are subverting the BRD process in your typical gaming style" February 25, 2019 Shortly after the content dispute referenced in the about two diffs, SashiRolls stalked me to a completely unrelated matter at ANI. Repeatedly refers to me as "Snoox" which is apparently intended to imply that Snooganssnoogans and I are tag team editing, or the same user. Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any September 3, 2016 Topic-banned from Jill Stein for six months December 16, 2016 Indefinitely prohibited from commenting on AE requests to which they are not a party. December 20, 2016 6-month block for disruptive editing and wiki-hounding. June 23, 2017 1-year indefinite block. If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above. Additional comments by editor filing complaint Full disclosure: I inadvertently violated 1RR myself on May 19 because I did not realize that the article was under 1RR and did not notice the page notice. Once I became aware, I acknowledged my error here. Most of my edits were undone by SashiRolls and I did a self-revert here. - Mr X 🖋 22:11, 26 May 2019 (UTC) The so called "consensus" was three people more than three months ago at Talk:Tulsi_Gabbard/Archive_1#Russian Propaganda and I was not even aware of it until after I posted this request. Since February, the issue underlying the content has resurfaced in the media. What is odd is that, if SashiRolls is relying on the three month old three person consensus, why he both removed and added material about the disputed content.. By my count, there are three people who currently support this material in the article, and it is being actively discussed on the talk page and at WP:NPOVN. In other words, consensus is currently being worked out. El_C I'm not exactly sure what it means to "further a content dispute", but if you are suggesting that I brought this here to win a content dispute, I guess that is a reasonable suspicion to have and I can only point to my contribution history. I am only asking that admins address the 1RR violations to make sure they don't continue occurring, and that SashiRolls stops berating anyone who disagrees with him. How you get there is your prerogative. And please tell SashiRolls to stop referring to me as Snoox. It's pure harassment.- Mr X 🖋 12:26, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning SashiRolls Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by SashiRolls This toxic bullying and false report to AE timed for the beginning of the work-week should result in MrX being blocked. There is a reason why MrX does not follow the AE instructions (explain HOW the diffs violate 1RR), because they do not. On 22 May, MrX boldly re-introduced an NBC News article which had been rejected by TP consensus back in February (not quite unanimously: the sockpuppet "Dan the Plumber" was the lone voice arguing for its inclusion on her BLP). Both edits MrX incriminates on 25 May 2019 are related to this prior TP consensus as I made clear in my edit summary and are exempt from 1RR: Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion. Looking more closely at MrX's claim about my editorial action on the 22 May 2019 it should be noted that the first was a straightforward removal of the undue material and the second was a rewrite adding 2 reactions directly relevant to the affair, but leaving the "info" in place. Even MrX had accepted on the TP that this should be first discussed on the campaign talk page before being added to the BLP. MrX: "I can live with it being in the campaign article for now." (source) The only other significant edit I've made to the page was to restore the mention of TG's membership on the House Foreign Affairs Committee that an IP had removed with a deceptive edit summary. Therefore, MrX's claim that I have reverted "most of his edits" (9RR) on the 19 May 2019 is patently false. MrX is assuming nobody will look into this pants-on-fire lie. The only edits made by MrX on 19 May 2019 that I touched in any way are related to the bad faith Daily Beast article implying that Gabbard is a Russian stooge. edit: this is not quite right, I also restored the long-standing section titles MrX wanted to change Snoox: this is a convenient abbreviation for the two people who have been consistently working together to POV-push on Gabbard's BLP since January. As Thucydides mentions below, MrX (and Awilley for that matter) are curiously silent about Snoog's clear violations of NPA Snooganssnoogans: "I think it's time that you stop filling talk pages with your bad faith accusations, feverish unsubstantiated smears and conspiracy theories." source. Where the problem originates is clear, but will AE do something about it and deal with the Snoox? I predict that much will be made of my abbreviating their names into a harmless portmanteau and the legitimately venomous comments will be ignored. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to proven wrong and see some signs of integrity, but I won't hold my breath based on my experience... MrX's claim that I "followed him to an unrelated ANI" discussion is false: he was prosecuting someone for reverting the "Dan the Plumber" sock who had been hyper-active on the Tulsi Gabbard talk page. Conclusion: MrX wants to make my life complicated by starting a groundless AE case timed to coincide with the beginning of the workweek, because he knows I work for a living. This sort of aggressive behavior is defined at WP:HARASSMENT: Harassment is a pattern of repeated offensive behavior that appears to a reasonable observer to intentionally target a specific person or persons. Usually (but not always), the purpose is to make the target feel threatened or intimidated, and the outcome may be to make editing Misplaced Pages unpleasant for the target, to undermine, frighten, or discourage them from editing. 🌿 SashiRolls 04:12, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Sandstein: Leave this open until Thursday and I will provide you with plenty of diffs to show you that the language I used is the most appropriate language to describe MrX's actions. However, during the workweek I do not have time to assemble the proof. Already, you can see that both 1RR claims are wrong and that there is a great deal that is disingenuous in this report. (MrX claims that he never saw the previous talk page consensus until after filing the report, even though it was linked to in the very diff he provided above and it was already alluded to on the talk page; he claims I reverted most of his 9RR on 19 May 2019, which is likewise demonstrably false.) I can dig up plenty... that's why the case was started on Monday: so I wouldn't have time to do so. Interesting how Objective3000 and myverybestwishes have piled onto this without saying a single word about the bogus complaint their friend MrX brought, or about me. Here's their old pal Calton getting blocked for helping out with the bullying: §§ 🌿 SashiRolls 19:26, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Thucydides411 Let's look at the first series of diffs that MrX gives, because they paint a different picture from the one MrX is presenting: There was consensus on the talk page that the accusation of Gabbard receiving Russian support should be removed: see this thread. This consensus was not immediately implemented, but SashiRolls subsequently removed the accusations, in accordance with the talk-page consensus (diff), and referenced the talk page consensus in the edit summary: "removed opinion piece following TP consensus". Snooganssnoogans reinserted the material (diff), without engaging on the talk page. This was a violation of consensus, which, given SashiRolls' edit summary, Snooganssnoogans should have been aware of. SashiRolls then edited the material (diff). MrX then added back in some of the material SashiRolls' edits had removed, with a somewhat deceptive edit summary calling the changes a "CE" (copy-edit): diff. This again goes against the previous consensus, which is that this material was not significant enough to be in the biography of Tulsi Gabbard. A new consensus should be established on the talk page, not edit-warred into the article. SashiRolls then removed this addition (diff), incorrectly attributing the last addition to "Snoox" (perhaps an oversight, but portrayed as intentional by MrX above). A couple of comments: The first clear violation of Misplaced Pages rules in this sequence was the reinsertion by Snooganssnoogans of material that there had been a consensus to remove. Snooganssnoogans should have gone to the talk page to seek consensus for reinstating that material. While on the one hand, SashiRolls reverted more than once, Snooganssnoogans and MrX were ignoring consensus. They should have gone to the talk page if they wished to establish a new consensus, rather than putting the material back in right away. The material in question is highly questionable, both from the perspective of WP:WEIGHT and WP:BLPBALANCE. MrX accuses SashiRolls of battleground mentality, but it is difficult to look at the content that MrX and Snooganssnoogans are trying to reinsert into the article and not see some sort of POV pushing going on. If this material is reinserted, fully half of the article's section on Tulsi Gabbard's campaign would be about accusations that she has received favorable coverage from Russian media. This is clearly disproportionate, and MrX and Snooganssnoogans should not be rushing to reinsert this material without first obtaining consensus. The principle of "clean hands" is at work here. The editor bringing this complaint, MrX, has themselves ignored the consensus at the article. The material that MrX was attempting to reinstate was problematic from both BLP and weight perspectives. Note that MrX did not decide to bring a case against Snooganssnoogans for violating WP:CONSENSUS, but instead brought a case against SashiRolls for supposedly violating WP:1RR - the obvious difference being that Snooganssnoogans and MrX agree on the content issue. That leaves me with the impression that AE is being used in service of a content dispute. A neutral complaint would at least have mentioned Snooganssnoogans' and MrX' violation of WP:CONSENSUS - or better yet, AE would have been entirely avoided. The admins evaluating this case should take a close look at MrX's edits at Tulsi Gabbard, and judge not only SashiRolls' behavior, but also that of MrX. -Thucydides411 (talk) 03:17, 27 May 2019 (UTC) @Awilley: I agree that there is a problem with editors dividing into two groups, but they're not strictly "left" vs. "right." In this case, the "left" group you identify is trying to insert material that is troubling from a BLP perspective into an article about a left-wing politician (Gabbard), and the "right" editors are trying to remove it. The "right" editors are trying to insert defenses of the left-wing politician by left-wing journalists (Greenwald and Taibbi), while the "left" editors are criticizing the inclusion of those defenses. In other fora, the "left" editors have argued strenuously against citing material by Greenwald and Taibbi. The actual dividing line appears to be one's views on Russiagate, with Gabbard, Greenwald and Taibbi falling on one side of the line, and their critics on the other side. The BLP issue here should really be addressed, with editors popping in to a BLP to insert critical material (about Russiagate, of course - what else would it be about?) which is very similar to material that was previously removed by consensus. With this material, half of the section on Tulsi Gabbard's Presidential campaign would be devoted to a few sources that allege she's supported by Russia. This sort of behavior - trying to push Russiagate into every article - is a real problem. It's also going on at other BLPs. To give you an example, Russiagate now makes up one quarter of the lede at Julian Assange. This is far more weight than is given to anything else Julian Assange has done - the founding of WikiLeaks, the US diplomatic cables, the Iraq and Afghanistan War logs, etc., and it clearly can't be in line with WP:BLPBALANCE. I'm sure that if you look more closely, you'll see this pattern repeated across other BLPs tangentially related to Russiagate. -Thucydides411 (talk) 15:21, 27 May 2019 (UTC) @Sandstein: Do you have a judgment on the issue of MrX and Snooganssnoogans ignoring consensus to reinsert material with problematic consequences for BLP? This sort of issue is a wider problem with the group of editors identified by Awilley, and can be seen, for example, at Julian Assange, where the lede has also been loaded up with Russiagate-related material, in a way that violates WP:BLPBALANCE. -Thucydides411 (talk) 18:03, 27 May 2019 (UTC) @Objective3000: WP:DUE is a question of weight. One sentence about Russiagate in the lede of Julian Assange might be due, but an entire paragraph, complete with details of exactly how many Russian intelligence officers were indicted by Mueller, is way out of proportion. All of WikiLeaks' many publications together receive less space in the lede than Russiagate. This is a serious BLP problem: see WP:BLPBALANCE. -Thucydides411 (talk) 19:13, 27 May 2019 (UTC) @Awilley: I provided diffs in my initial comment here, showing how MrX and Snooganssnoogans ignored the previous consensus, even after it had been pointed out to them by SashiRolls. The normal procedure when there exists a prior consensus to remove material - especially when that material raises BLP concerns - is to discuss first and edit later. That wasn't followed here. The approach was to add the material back in first, regardless of the previous consensus and the BLP concerns, and to discuss later. The principle of "clean hands" should be addressed here, since the editor raising this enforcement request themselves acted improperly. -Thucydides411 (talk) 19:18, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by My very best wishes I disagree with assessment by Thucydides411 that there is a group of contributors who are "trying to push Russiagate into every article" which "is a real problem". This is Misplaced Pages:Casting aspersions by Thucydides411. Per WP:NPOV, the coverage in WP must reflect the coverage in RS, and it does, at least on this subject. The "interference" is so significant because it "helped" to effectively disable the entire political system in the US, as a result of electing certain officials and their actions. My very best wishes (talk) 17:19, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Objective3000 @Thucydides411: I haven’t weighed in on the Assange lead, and don’t wish to start a content discussion here; but I don’t think you are using a good example to make your point that some editors are trying to push Russiagate into every article by claiming problematic BLP behavior related to the Assange article lead. The first sentence of the relevant DOJ announcement is: “A federal grand jury returned an 18-count superseding indictment today charging Julian P. Assange, 47, the founder of WikiLeaks, with offenses that relate to Assange’s alleged role in one of the largest compromises of classified information in the history of the United States.” Seems mighty due. We all know there exist problems in the AP area; but I don’t see editors trying to shove undue material about Russia into every article. O3000 (talk) 18:24, 27 May 2019 (UTC) @SashiRolls: Interesting how Objective3000 and myverybestwishes have piled onto this without saying a single word about the bogus complaint their friend MrX brought, or about me. How did I “pile on”? My comment was about Thucydides411’s general claim about political editors. I am otherwise uninvolved. O3000 (talk) 19:56, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning SashiRolls This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. I'm the last person to defend SashiRolles, and once again I am not impressed with their behaviour, but Thucydides411 also brings up some compelling arguments. I, too, am not sure I wish to see AE used to further a content dispute, which may be what is happening here. El_C 11:41, 27 May 2019 (UTC) That 1RR violation is a bit stale now — why was it not reported at the time? El_C 12:38, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Thank you, Awilley, for your eloquence. El_C 13:32, 27 May 2019 (UTC) I've had my eye on this dispute for a couple of months now, and despite seeing that SushiRolls is extremely annoying to collaborate with I have refrained from taking any action besides general warnings. My reason is this: It's common knowledge that the American Politics topic area has many editors whose editorial positions tend to consistently favor one political ideology or another. Close enough RfCs in the topic area and you'll notice that certain groups of editors almost always end up on the same side with each other. Ask all these people to individually rank all the other editors on a "right" vs. "left" spectrum and the results would be highly correlated with the same editors consistently showing up on the "right" and "left" sides, although with some disagreement about where the "center" is located. Calling these people "civil POV pushers" or "tendentious editors" may be a bit harsh, but for the sake of conciseness let's use the term "tendentious editors". Normally these tendentious editors roughly balance each other out, with content disputes and RfCs being largely settled by the positions and arguments of the "swing voters". However in this case it would seem that the article's subject (Tulsi Gabbard) occupies the unenviable position of being disliked by both Republicans and Democrats, and from what I've seen of the talk page, SashiRolls seems to be the only tendentious editor interested in pushing back against edits that portray Gabbard in a negative light. (I don't see TFD as a tendentious editor.) I know very little about Gabbard, mostly just what I've read in the snippets of various reverts, but somehow I doubt that the question of whether she received support from "Russian Interests" is the most notable aspect of her 2020 campaign (judging by the weight it is given in the 3-paragraph subsection in the edit warring diffs above). I don't want this to be misinterpreted as declining to sanction a disruptive editor because they're pushing the right POV. The POV pushing is still a negative, but for me in this particular instance the importance of POV is small compared to the issue of BLP. I'm unsure of the best outcome in this particular situation. SR has been annoying and disruptive, but I would weakly oppose a topic ban, for now. Perhaps a warning? I fear I'm going to regret making this comment at all when SashiRolls interprets it as a nod of encouragement, which it is not. ~Awilley (talk) 13:25, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Also note I'm not suggesting we turn this into a boomerang. MrX, from what I've seen, is a relative newcomer to this particular conflict, and I'm not surprised that he got fed up with the situation. ~Awilley (talk) 15:21, 27 May 2019 (UTC) @Sandstein: I'm happy to give User:Awilley/Discretionary sanctions#No personal comments a whirl and see if that has any effect. @MrX: I'll warn about "Snoox". Initially I overlooked it because I thought it was just short for Snoogansanoons, whose name I routinely misspell. @Thucydides411: I'm starting to regret my comment already. I don't think the focus should be on groups of editors, and I'm not willing to start throwing sideways boomerangs based on bare assertions. If you want to call for sanctions against Snoog- or MrX you can dig up diffs and start a new thread. ~Awilley (talk) 18:49, 27 May 2019 (UTC) I've gone ahead and applied the No Personal Comments sanction on my own. That at the very least was warranted. ~Awilley (talk) 00:18, 28 May 2019 (UTC) I'm not interested in the 1RR issue, but I would support a sanction for the general battleground attitude exhibited in the other diffs, reinforced with the response here: "This toxic bullying and false report to AE timed for the beginning of the work-week ...". We don't need editors with a temper like that in controversial topic areas. Sandstein 17:43, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Awilley has applied a No personal comments restriction on SashiRolls for one year. El_C 00:24, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning SashiRolls

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: MrX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:11, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: SashiRolls (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBAPDS; 1RR

Misplaced Pages editors are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other editors; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct, such as personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, harassment, disruptive point-making, and gaming the system, is prohibited.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
1RR violation

16:26, May 26, 2019 Revert 1 (Original edit)
19:38, May 26, 2019 Revert 2 (Original edit)

1RR violation

19:21, May 22, 2019 Revert 1 (Original edit)
22:13, May 22, 2019 Revert 2 (Original edit) - Request to self-revert

Assumptions of bad faith, personal attacks, and WP:BATTLEGROUND editing

May 26, 2019 "Of course, everyone knows that the inner cabal doesn't have to follow the rules and can bully folks around to their heart's desire. Are y'all donors? special ops? just lucky?"
May 24, 2019 "Cf. wp:tag team 1) I am not your mate. 2) Cf. sources & methods Chapter 1 is gaslighting the opposition."
May 25, 2019 "You are giving the appearance of doing everything you can to make Gabbard's biography look bad" ... "I personally hope it because you dislike her candidacy, rather than because you want to play psychological games with people on the internet: but neither is a good excuse for the POV editing."
May 24, 2019 "I think I'll just leave AmPol2 to the trolls. Adding big blue-links to Russian media entries is obviously not standard practice, except for folks like Cirt (and others in his cabal). It is rhetoric. Ciao. "
February 19, 2019 "I would remind Snoog & MrX that tag-teaming is a well-known strategy that is frowned upon."
February 21, 2019 "By reverting me restoring information you removed from the lede, you are subverting the BRD process in your typical gaming style"
February 25, 2019 Shortly after the content dispute referenced in the about two diffs, SashiRolls stalked me to a completely unrelated matter at ANI.
Repeatedly refers to me as "Snoox" which is apparently intended to imply that Snooganssnoogans and I are tag team editing, or the same user.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

September 3, 2016 Topic-banned from Jill Stein for six months
December 16, 2016 Indefinitely prohibited from commenting on AE requests to which they are not a party.
December 20, 2016 6-month block for disruptive editing and wiki-hounding.
June 23, 2017 1-year indefinite block.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Full disclosure: I inadvertently violated 1RR myself on May 19 because I did not realize that the article was under 1RR and did not notice the page notice. Once I became aware, I acknowledged my error here. Most of my edits were undone by SashiRolls and I did a self-revert here. - Mr X 🖋 22:11, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

The so called "consensus" was three people more than three months ago at Talk:Tulsi_Gabbard/Archive_1#Russian Propaganda and I was not even aware of it until after I posted this request. Since February, the issue underlying the content has resurfaced in the media. What is odd is that, if SashiRolls is relying on the three month old three person consensus, why he both removed and added material about the disputed content.. By my count, there are three people who currently support this material in the article, and it is being actively discussed on the talk page and at WP:NPOVN. In other words, consensus is currently being worked out.

El_C I'm not exactly sure what it means to "further a content dispute", but if you are suggesting that I brought this here to win a content dispute, I guess that is a reasonable suspicion to have and I can only point to my contribution history. I am only asking that admins address the 1RR violations to make sure they don't continue occurring, and that SashiRolls stops berating anyone who disagrees with him. How you get there is your prerogative.

And please tell SashiRolls to stop referring to me as Snoox. It's pure harassment.- Mr X 🖋 12:26, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning SashiRolls

Statement by SashiRolls

This toxic bullying and false report to AE timed for the beginning of the work-week should result in MrX being blocked. There is a reason why MrX does not follow the AE instructions (explain HOW the diffs violate 1RR), because they do not. On 22 May, MrX boldly re-introduced an NBC News article which had been rejected by TP consensus back in February (not quite unanimously: the sockpuppet "Dan the Plumber" was the lone voice arguing for its inclusion on her BLP). Both edits MrX incriminates on 25 May 2019 are related to this prior TP consensus as I made clear in my edit summary and are exempt from 1RR: Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion.

Looking more closely at MrX's claim about my editorial action on the 22 May 2019 it should be noted that the first was a straightforward removal of the undue material and the second was a rewrite adding 2 reactions directly relevant to the affair, but leaving the "info" in place. Even MrX had accepted on the TP that this should be first discussed on the campaign talk page before being added to the BLP. MrX: "I can live with it being in the campaign article for now." (source)

The only other significant edit I've made to the page was to restore the mention of TG's membership on the House Foreign Affairs Committee that an IP had removed with a deceptive edit summary. Therefore, MrX's claim that I have reverted "most of his edits" (9RR) on the 19 May 2019 is patently false. MrX is assuming nobody will look into this pants-on-fire lie. The only edits made by MrX on 19 May 2019 that I touched in any way are related to the bad faith Daily Beast article implying that Gabbard is a Russian stooge. edit: this is not quite right, I also restored the long-standing section titles MrX wanted to change

Snoox: this is a convenient abbreviation for the two people who have been consistently working together to POV-push on Gabbard's BLP since January. As Thucydides mentions below, MrX (and Awilley for that matter) are curiously silent about Snoog's clear violations of NPA Snooganssnoogans: "I think it's time that you stop filling talk pages with your bad faith accusations, feverish unsubstantiated smears and conspiracy theories." source.

Where the problem originates is clear, but will AE do something about it and deal with the Snoox? I predict that much will be made of my abbreviating their names into a harmless portmanteau and the legitimately venomous comments will be ignored. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to proven wrong and see some signs of integrity, but I won't hold my breath based on my experience... MrX's claim that I "followed him to an unrelated ANI" discussion is false: he was prosecuting someone for reverting the "Dan the Plumber" sock who had been hyper-active on the Tulsi Gabbard talk page. Conclusion: MrX wants to make my life complicated by starting a groundless AE case timed to coincide with the beginning of the workweek, because he knows I work for a living. This sort of aggressive behavior is defined at WP:HARASSMENT: Harassment is a pattern of repeated offensive behavior that appears to a reasonable observer to intentionally target a specific person or persons. Usually (but not always), the purpose is to make the target feel threatened or intimidated, and the outcome may be to make editing Misplaced Pages unpleasant for the target, to undermine, frighten, or discourage them from editing. 🌿 SashiRolls 04:12, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Sandstein: Leave this open until Thursday and I will provide you with plenty of diffs to show you that the language I used is the most appropriate language to describe MrX's actions. However, during the workweek I do not have time to assemble the proof. Already, you can see that both 1RR claims are wrong and that there is a great deal that is disingenuous in this report. (MrX claims that he never saw the previous talk page consensus until after filing the report, even though it was linked to in the very diff he provided above and it was already alluded to on the talk page; he claims I reverted most of his 9RR on 19 May 2019, which is likewise demonstrably false.) I can dig up plenty... that's why the case was started on Monday: so I wouldn't have time to do so. Interesting how Objective3000 and myverybestwishes have piled onto this without saying a single word about the bogus complaint their friend MrX brought, or about me. Here's their old pal Calton getting blocked for helping out with the bullying: §§ 🌿 SashiRolls 19:26, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Thucydides411

Let's look at the first series of diffs that MrX gives, because they paint a different picture from the one MrX is presenting:

There was consensus on the talk page that the accusation of Gabbard receiving Russian support should be removed: see this thread. This consensus was not immediately implemented, but SashiRolls subsequently removed the accusations, in accordance with the talk-page consensus (diff), and referenced the talk page consensus in the edit summary: "removed opinion piece following TP consensus". Snooganssnoogans reinserted the material (diff), without engaging on the talk page. This was a violation of consensus, which, given SashiRolls' edit summary, Snooganssnoogans should have been aware of. SashiRolls then edited the material (diff). MrX then added back in some of the material SashiRolls' edits had removed, with a somewhat deceptive edit summary calling the changes a "CE" (copy-edit): diff. This again goes against the previous consensus, which is that this material was not significant enough to be in the biography of Tulsi Gabbard. A new consensus should be established on the talk page, not edit-warred into the article. SashiRolls then removed this addition (diff), incorrectly attributing the last addition to "Snoox" (perhaps an oversight, but portrayed as intentional by MrX above).

A couple of comments:

The first clear violation of Misplaced Pages rules in this sequence was the reinsertion by Snooganssnoogans of material that there had been a consensus to remove. Snooganssnoogans should have gone to the talk page to seek consensus for reinstating that material.
While on the one hand, SashiRolls reverted more than once, Snooganssnoogans and MrX were ignoring consensus. They should have gone to the talk page if they wished to establish a new consensus, rather than putting the material back in right away.
The material in question is highly questionable, both from the perspective of WP:WEIGHT and WP:BLPBALANCE. MrX accuses SashiRolls of battleground mentality, but it is difficult to look at the content that MrX and Snooganssnoogans are trying to reinsert into the article and not see some sort of POV pushing going on. If this material is reinserted, fully half of the article's section on Tulsi Gabbard's campaign would be about accusations that she has received favorable coverage from Russian media. This is clearly disproportionate, and MrX and Snooganssnoogans should not be rushing to reinsert this material without first obtaining consensus.

The principle of "clean hands" is at work here. The editor bringing this complaint, MrX, has themselves ignored the consensus at the article. The material that MrX was attempting to reinstate was problematic from both BLP and weight perspectives. Note that MrX did not decide to bring a case against Snooganssnoogans for violating WP:CONSENSUS, but instead brought a case against SashiRolls for supposedly violating WP:1RR - the obvious difference being that Snooganssnoogans and MrX agree on the content issue. That leaves me with the impression that AE is being used in service of a content dispute. A neutral complaint would at least have mentioned Snooganssnoogans' and MrX' violation of WP:CONSENSUS - or better yet, AE would have been entirely avoided. The admins evaluating this case should take a close look at MrX's edits at Tulsi Gabbard, and judge not only SashiRolls' behavior, but also that of MrX. -Thucydides411 (talk) 03:17, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

@Awilley: I agree that there is a problem with editors dividing into two groups, but they're not strictly "left" vs. "right." In this case, the "left" group you identify is trying to insert material that is troubling from a BLP perspective into an article about a left-wing politician (Gabbard), and the "right" editors are trying to remove it. The "right" editors are trying to insert defenses of the left-wing politician by left-wing journalists (Greenwald and Taibbi), while the "left" editors are criticizing the inclusion of those defenses. In other fora, the "left" editors have argued strenuously against citing material by Greenwald and Taibbi. The actual dividing line appears to be one's views on Russiagate, with Gabbard, Greenwald and Taibbi falling on one side of the line, and their critics on the other side.

The BLP issue here should really be addressed, with editors popping in to a BLP to insert critical material (about Russiagate, of course - what else would it be about?) which is very similar to material that was previously removed by consensus. With this material, half of the section on Tulsi Gabbard's Presidential campaign would be devoted to a few sources that allege she's supported by Russia. This sort of behavior - trying to push Russiagate into every article - is a real problem. It's also going on at other BLPs. To give you an example, Russiagate now makes up one quarter of the lede at Julian Assange. This is far more weight than is given to anything else Julian Assange has done - the founding of WikiLeaks, the US diplomatic cables, the Iraq and Afghanistan War logs, etc., and it clearly can't be in line with WP:BLPBALANCE. I'm sure that if you look more closely, you'll see this pattern repeated across other BLPs tangentially related to Russiagate. -Thucydides411 (talk) 15:21, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

@Sandstein: Do you have a judgment on the issue of MrX and Snooganssnoogans ignoring consensus to reinsert material with problematic consequences for BLP? This sort of issue is a wider problem with the group of editors identified by Awilley, and can be seen, for example, at Julian Assange, where the lede has also been loaded up with Russiagate-related material, in a way that violates WP:BLPBALANCE. -Thucydides411 (talk) 18:03, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

@Objective3000: WP:DUE is a question of weight. One sentence about Russiagate in the lede of Julian Assange might be due, but an entire paragraph, complete with details of exactly how many Russian intelligence officers were indicted by Mueller, is way out of proportion. All of WikiLeaks' many publications together receive less space in the lede than Russiagate. This is a serious BLP problem: see WP:BLPBALANCE. -Thucydides411 (talk) 19:13, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

@Awilley: I provided diffs in my initial comment here, showing how MrX and Snooganssnoogans ignored the previous consensus, even after it had been pointed out to them by SashiRolls. The normal procedure when there exists a prior consensus to remove material - especially when that material raises BLP concerns - is to discuss first and edit later. That wasn't followed here. The approach was to add the material back in first, regardless of the previous consensus and the BLP concerns, and to discuss later. The principle of "clean hands" should be addressed here, since the editor raising this enforcement request themselves acted improperly. -Thucydides411 (talk) 19:18, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by My very best wishes

I disagree with assessment by Thucydides411 that there is a group of contributors who are "trying to push Russiagate into every article" which "is a real problem". This is Misplaced Pages:Casting aspersions by Thucydides411. Per WP:NPOV, the coverage in WP must reflect the coverage in RS, and it does, at least on this subject. The "interference" is so significant because it "helped" to effectively disable the entire political system in the US, as a result of electing certain officials and their actions. My very best wishes (talk) 17:19, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Objective3000

@Thucydides411: I haven’t weighed in on the Assange lead, and don’t wish to start a content discussion here; but I don’t think you are using a good example to make your point that some editors are trying to push Russiagate into every article by claiming problematic BLP behavior related to the Assange article lead. The first sentence of the relevant DOJ announcement is: “A federal grand jury returned an 18-count superseding indictment today charging Julian P. Assange, 47, the founder of WikiLeaks, with offenses that relate to Assange’s alleged role in one of the largest compromises of classified information in the history of the United States.” Seems mighty due. We all know there exist problems in the AP area; but I don’t see editors trying to shove undue material about Russia into every article. O3000 (talk) 18:24, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

@SashiRolls: Interesting how Objective3000 and myverybestwishes have piled onto this without saying a single word about the bogus complaint their friend MrX brought, or about me. How did I “pile on”? My comment was about Thucydides411’s general claim about political editors. I am otherwise uninvolved. O3000 (talk) 19:56, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning SashiRolls

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm the last person to defend SashiRolles, and once again I am not impressed with their behaviour, but Thucydides411 also brings up some compelling arguments. I, too, am not sure I wish to see AE used to further a content dispute, which may be what is happening here. El_C 11:41, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

That 1RR violation is a bit stale now — why was it not reported at the time? El_C 12:38, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Awilley, for your eloquence. El_C 13:32, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

I've had my eye on this dispute for a couple of months now, and despite seeing that SushiRolls is extremely annoying to collaborate with I have refrained from taking any action besides general warnings. My reason is this: It's common knowledge that the American Politics topic area has many editors whose editorial positions tend to consistently favor one political ideology or another. Close enough RfCs in the topic area and you'll notice that certain groups of editors almost always end up on the same side with each other. Ask all these people to individually rank all the other editors on a "right" vs. "left" spectrum and the results would be highly correlated with the same editors consistently showing up on the "right" and "left" sides, although with some disagreement about where the "center" is located. Calling these people "civil POV pushers" or "tendentious editors" may be a bit harsh, but for the sake of conciseness let's use the term "tendentious editors". Normally these tendentious editors roughly balance each other out, with content disputes and RfCs being largely settled by the positions and arguments of the "swing voters". However in this case it would seem that the article's subject (Tulsi Gabbard) occupies the unenviable position of being disliked by both Republicans and Democrats, and from what I've seen of the talk page, SashiRolls seems to be the only tendentious editor interested in pushing back against edits that portray Gabbard in a negative light. (I don't see TFD as a tendentious editor.) I know very little about Gabbard, mostly just what I've read in the snippets of various reverts, but somehow I doubt that the question of whether she received support from "Russian Interests" is the most notable aspect of her 2020 campaign (judging by the weight it is given in the 3-paragraph subsection in the edit warring diffs above). I don't want this to be misinterpreted as declining to sanction a disruptive editor because they're pushing the right POV. The POV pushing is still a negative, but for me in this particular instance the importance of POV is small compared to the issue of BLP. I'm unsure of the best outcome in this particular situation. SR has been annoying and disruptive, but I would weakly oppose a topic ban, for now. Perhaps a warning? I fear I'm going to regret making this comment at all when SashiRolls interprets it as a nod of encouragement, which it is not. ~Awilley (talk) 13:25, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Also note I'm not suggesting we turn this into a boomerang. MrX, from what I've seen, is a relative newcomer to this particular conflict, and I'm not surprised that he got fed up with the situation. ~Awilley (talk) 15:21, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

@Sandstein: I'm happy to give User:Awilley/Discretionary sanctions#No personal comments a whirl and see if that has any effect.

@MrX: I'll warn about "Snoox". Initially I overlooked it because I thought it was just short for Snoogansanoons, whose name I routinely misspell.

@Thucydides411: I'm starting to regret my comment already. I don't think the focus should be on groups of editors, and I'm not willing to start throwing sideways boomerangs based on bare assertions. If you want to call for sanctions against Snoog- or MrX you can dig up diffs and start a new thread. ~Awilley (talk) 18:49, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and applied the No Personal Comments sanction on my own. That at the very least was warranted. ~Awilley (talk) 00:18, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm not interested in the 1RR issue, but I would support a sanction for the general battleground attitude exhibited in the other diffs, reinforced with the response here: "This toxic bullying and false report to AE timed for the beginning of the work-week ...". We don't need editors with a temper like that in controversial topic areas. Sandstein 17:43, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Batvette

Batvette is indefinitely topic-banned from post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, broadly construed. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:21, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Batvette User who is submitting this request for enforcement Ahrtoodeetoo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:04, 27 May 2019 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Batvette (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced WP:ARBAPDS : Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it Batvette consistently battlegrounds, ignores AGF, and personalizes nearly every dispute. He often literally taunts the (unspecified) editors who disagree with him; in fact, for the last week his user page included a taunt of his political opponents. Specific edits include: describing another editor's comments as lame and not competant suggesting that another editor has not reached a level of education to differentiate adjectives from adverbs (also includes a taunt of Batvette's political opponents) You people will continue to cling to the most specious of arguments to preserve its existence with silly wiki lawyering behind facades of innocent faces. Willful ignorance is hardly a talking point I feel obligated to waste time on And the WaPo RS furnished directly supports this assertion nearly verbatim in its lede paragraphs suggests an intent to troll this discussion. I will not further respond to such nonsense. This discussion appears to be going nowhere but neither am I. These boorish tactics will not serve you well when recorded for posterity on this page. (to another editor:) Trump thanks you for assisting in his 2020 reelection. if your side finally brings around NPOV what have you won? Victory over cretinous dishonesty. We know that neither of you are oblivious to Trumps unpopularity with some in his party so I can only take his persistence in pushing it as an argument of intellectual dishonesty and you both projecting it to my ignorance after stating the fallacious nature of the point to be trolling this discussion. You must have a lot of free time on your hands to want to fill these pages with such unconstructive actions. If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months. Additional comments by editor filing complaint El_C, I don’t know if you’re American so perhaps you’re unaware that it’s a national holiday in the U.S. It seems fair to give Batvette until tomorrow (Tuesday) to respond. R2 (bleep) 00:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning Batvette Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Batvette I just saw this action so I will make my statement. Literally dozens of editors have made comments on the talk page in the last 2 months complaining of its NPOV nature. They have provided sound arguments with RS. A small handful of editors including the one filing the complaint have stonewalled opposing views. Complaintant stated falsely "a couple of editors" disagreed with consensus when I counted 28. ± Note that virtually all of the quotes he has provided, as colorful and admittedly heated as they are, are critical of other users COMMENTS and/or the tactics employed. Wiki policy is clear that youre supposed to comment about content, and users comments are content on a talk page. I apologize for perhaps being too wordy and posting some long rants, but do not mistake my criticism of other users arguments and tactics as attacks on their person. As for battleground that might be true if it were just myself arguing against their alleged consensus, however a review of that discussion does show 28 individual editors, the bulk of whom are experienced, having a problem with that page. Whatever the outcome of this its a point well taken and my comments probably should be shorter and less emotional. They would never have gotten that way had several editors been more open to compromise. Please see my history, Ive been here 13 years with no past disciplinary action. Perhaps this suggests the problem on that page isnt all me. Thank you. Batvette (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Objective3000 R2 provides a sampling of the barrage of incivility. But, it’s not just the number of edits exhibiting battleground behavior, it’s the percentage. If you look through Batvette’s contributions, you’ll see that most of the edits include divisive, belittling, accusatory language aimed at other editors. And as one would expect, none of this has resulted in any consensus. I’m also bothered by their insistence on pushing the debunked claim that thousands of Muslims celebrated on NJ rooftops after the WTC collapsed on 9/11. O3000 (talk) 11:26, 27 May 2019 (UTC) O3000 I have by intent limited criticism not toward your person as you allege but to what you posted in the discussion. Furthermore the issue about Muslims cheering on rooftops was NOT debunked, and a link was provided to you. Here is another. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-references-sept-11-celebrations-jersey-city-n-article-1.2452481?outputType=amp which leaves us with the semantics debate of "swarms" vs. "thousands". Its irrelevant on this page anyway, why would you bring this here?Batvette (talk) 16:43, 28 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Batvette This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. I'll wait to make up my mind once the user in question responds, but an AP topic ban is probably due. El_C 11:33, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Awilley, actually, as I've just been informed via email, the user first edit is from June 2006 . El_C 20:03, 27 May 2019 (UTC) I'll give them a few more hours, but that's likely an empty gesture and, unless there's any objections, am otherwise ready to close with an indefinite AP topic ban. El_C 00:27, 28 May 2019 (UTC) I've looked at the user's talkpage contributions at Spygate. the signal to noise ratio is pretty low with a high volume of unnhelpful and uncollaborative comments. I would support a topic ban. If I were placing it myself I'd do 3 months as kind of a "warning shot" since it's a newer user with few edits. ~Awilley (talk) 13:44, 27 May 2019 (UTC) I would suggest an indefinite AP2 topic ban: anyone who posts this is unlikely to ever be productive in the topic area and a time limited TBAN will only kick the can down the road. Also noting that I've given them the 9/11 DS alert on the off chance they go on to create disruption in that area. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:39, 27 May 2019 (UTC) I agree with the indefinite topic ban. Sandstein 17:39, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Batvette is indefinitely topic-banned from post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, broadly construed. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:21, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Batvette

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Ahrtoodeetoo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:04, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Batvette (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBAPDS :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Batvette consistently battlegrounds, ignores AGF, and personalizes nearly every dispute. He often literally taunts the (unspecified) editors who disagree with him; in fact, for the last week his user page included a taunt of his political opponents. Specific edits include:

describing another editor's comments as lame and not competant
suggesting that another editor has not reached a level of education to differentiate adjectives from adverbs (also includes a taunt of Batvette's political opponents)
You people will continue to cling to the most specious of arguments to preserve its existence with silly wiki lawyering behind facades of innocent faces.
Willful ignorance is hardly a talking point I feel obligated to waste time on
And the WaPo RS furnished directly supports this assertion nearly verbatim in its lede paragraphs suggests an intent to troll this discussion. I will not further respond to such nonsense. This discussion appears to be going nowhere but neither am I. These boorish tactics will not serve you well when recorded for posterity on this page.
(to another editor:) Trump thanks you for assisting in his 2020 reelection.
if your side finally brings around NPOV what have you won? Victory over cretinous dishonesty.
We know that neither of you are oblivious to Trumps unpopularity with some in his party so I can only take his persistence in pushing it as an argument of intellectual dishonesty and you both projecting it to my ignorance after stating the fallacious nature of the point to be trolling this discussion. You must have a lot of free time on your hands to want to fill these pages with such unconstructive actions.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

El_C, I don’t know if you’re American so perhaps you’re unaware that it’s a national holiday in the U.S. It seems fair to give Batvette until tomorrow (Tuesday) to respond. R2 (bleep) 00:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Batvette

Statement by Batvette

I just saw this action so I will make my statement. Literally dozens of editors have made comments on the talk page in the last 2 months complaining of its NPOV nature. They have provided sound arguments with RS. A small handful of editors including the one filing the complaint have stonewalled opposing views. Complaintant stated falsely "a couple of editors" disagreed with consensus when I counted 28. ± Note that virtually all of the quotes he has provided, as colorful and admittedly heated as they are, are critical of other users COMMENTS and/or the tactics employed. Wiki policy is clear that youre supposed to comment about content, and users comments are content on a talk page. I apologize for perhaps being too wordy and posting some long rants, but do not mistake my criticism of other users arguments and tactics as attacks on their person. As for battleground that might be true if it were just myself arguing against their alleged consensus, however a review of that discussion does show 28 individual editors, the bulk of whom are experienced, having a problem with that page. Whatever the outcome of this its a point well taken and my comments probably should be shorter and less emotional. They would never have gotten that way had several editors been more open to compromise. Please see my history, Ive been here 13 years with no past disciplinary action. Perhaps this suggests the problem on that page isnt all me. Thank you. Batvette (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Objective3000

R2 provides a sampling of the barrage of incivility. But, it’s not just the number of edits exhibiting battleground behavior, it’s the percentage. If you look through Batvette’s contributions, you’ll see that most of the edits include divisive, belittling, accusatory language aimed at other editors. And as one would expect, none of this has resulted in any consensus. I’m also bothered by their insistence on pushing the debunked claim that thousands of Muslims celebrated on NJ rooftops after the WTC collapsed on 9/11. O3000 (talk) 11:26, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

O3000 I have by intent limited criticism not toward your person as you allege but to what you posted in the discussion. Furthermore the issue about Muslims cheering on rooftops was NOT debunked, and a link was provided to you. Here is another. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-references-sept-11-celebrations-jersey-city-n-article-1.2452481?outputType=amp which leaves us with the semantics debate of "swarms" vs. "thousands". Its irrelevant on this page anyway, why would you bring this here?Batvette (talk) 16:43, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Batvette

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'll wait to make up my mind once the user in question responds, but an AP topic ban is probably due. El_C 11:33, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Awilley, actually, as I've just been informed via email, the user first edit is from June 2006 . El_C 20:03, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

I'll give them a few more hours, but that's likely an empty gesture and, unless there's any objections, am otherwise ready to close with an indefinite AP topic ban. El_C 00:27, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

I've looked at the user's talkpage contributions at Spygate. the signal to noise ratio is pretty low with a high volume of unnhelpful and uncollaborative comments. I would support a topic ban. If I were placing it myself I'd do 3 months as kind of a "warning shot" since it's a newer user with few edits. ~Awilley (talk) 13:44, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
I would suggest an indefinite AP2 topic ban: anyone who posts this is unlikely to ever be productive in the topic area and a time limited TBAN will only kick the can down the road. Also noting that I've given them the 9/11 DS alert on the off chance they go on to create disruption in that area. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:39, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
I agree with the indefinite topic ban. Sandstein 17:39, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

User:Snooganssnoogans

Not actionable. Sandstein 17:37, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning User:Snooganssnoogans User who is submitting this request for enforcement SunCrow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:02, 27 May 2019 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Snooganssnoogans (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced The article Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is currently subject to discretionary sanctions authorized by active arbitration remedies (see WP:ARBAPDS). An administrator has applied the following restrictions to this article: Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period); see https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez. Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 05-27-2019 Partial revert of edit dated 05-27-2019; see . Date Partial revert of edit dated 05-27-2019; see . 05-27-2019 Partial revert of edit dated 05-27-2019; see . The three partial reverts violate the 1RR rule. If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in editing on post-1932 American politics; see . Additional comments by editor filing complaint User:Snooganssnoogans is an experienced editor who frequently edits on pages relating to American politics. has also been involved in several arbitration matters (see https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?search=snooganssnoogans&prefix=Misplaced Pages%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%7D&ns0=1). Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Snooganssnoogans&diff=899054425&oldid=899054338 Discussion concerning User:Snooganssnoogans Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by User:Snooganssnoogans This is a continuous series of edits (i.e. not a violation of 1RR). I could have done them in one large edit, but opted to do them in three uninterrupted edits to show clearly what I was removing and for what reasons (and also leave in recently added content that I didn't have a problem with). Snooganssnoogans (talk) 16:16, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by User:MelanieN Snoogans is correct; there was no violation here. According to WP:EW, A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert. It is understandable that the reporting party here did not realize that, since the 1RR statement posted at the article does not make it clear. IMO the wording of that statement should be clarified to "one edit or series of edits", or perhaps "one edit or uninterrupted series of edits". Statement by (username) Result concerning User:Snooganssnoogans This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Consecutive reverts count as one revert. The three partial reverts are consecutive and don't violate 1RR. ~Awilley (talk) 16:21, 27 May 2019 (UTC) @MelanieN: I don't think it's the job of a discretionary sanctions template to explain the definition of a revert. The "consecutive edits" thing applies to all reverts everywhere, including 3RR. Putting it in 1RR templates could educate some people, yes, but it would also be WP:CREEP-y and potentially misleading (some people might start thinking it's a special case when they see it in some 1RR templates but not others). ~Awilley (talk) 17:31, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Closing as not actionable per comments above. Sandstein 17:37, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Not actionable. Sandstein 17:37, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning User:Snooganssnoogans

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: SunCrow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:02, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Snooganssnoogans (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: The article Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is currently subject to discretionary sanctions authorized by active arbitration remedies (see WP:ARBAPDS). An administrator has applied the following restrictions to this article: Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period); see https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

05-27-2019 Partial revert of edit dated 05-27-2019; see .
Date Partial revert of edit dated 05-27-2019; see .
05-27-2019 Partial revert of edit dated 05-27-2019; see . The three partial reverts violate the 1RR rule.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in editing on post-1932 American politics; see .

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

User:Snooganssnoogans is an experienced editor who frequently edits on pages relating to American politics. has also been involved in several arbitration matters (see https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?search=snooganssnoogans&prefix=Misplaced Pages%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%7D&ns0=1).

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Snooganssnoogans&diff=899054425&oldid=899054338

Discussion concerning User:Snooganssnoogans

Statement by User:Snooganssnoogans

This is a continuous series of edits (i.e. not a violation of 1RR). I could have done them in one large edit, but opted to do them in three uninterrupted edits to show clearly what I was removing and for what reasons (and also leave in recently added content that I didn't have a problem with). Snooganssnoogans (talk) 16:16, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by User:MelanieN

Snoogans is correct; there was no violation here. According to WP:EW, A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert. It is understandable that the reporting party here did not realize that, since the 1RR statement posted at the article does not make it clear. IMO the wording of that statement should be clarified to "one edit or series of edits", or perhaps "one edit or uninterrupted series of edits".

Statement by (username)

Result concerning User:Snooganssnoogans

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Consecutive reverts count as one revert. The three partial reverts are consecutive and don't violate 1RR. ~Awilley (talk) 16:21, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
- @MelanieN: I don't think it's the job of a discretionary sanctions template to explain the definition of a revert. The "consecutive edits" thing applies to all reverts everywhere, including 3RR. Putting it in 1RR templates could educate some people, yes, but it would also be WP:CREEP-y and potentially misleading (some people might start thinking it's a special case when they see it in some 1RR templates but not others). ~Awilley (talk) 17:31, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
Closing as not actionable per comments above. Sandstein 17:37, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Grayfell

Not actionable. El_C 04:26, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Grayfell User who is submitting this request for enforcement Sinuthius (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:42, 29 May 2019 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Grayfell (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race_and_intelligence#Editors_reminded_and_discretionary_sanctions_(amended) and Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Editing_of_Biographies_of_Living_Persons#Biographies_of_living_persons Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 26 April, 29 April - Adding an out-of-place comment in the bibliography of the Michael A. Woodley of Menie, Yr. article, based on a false statement about the identity of the publisher of Woodley's monograph "The Rhythm of the West". Its actual publisher is given at WorldCat. 30 April - The same as the previous two edits, but with the correct publisher. However, there is another problem: the cited SPLC source does not mention Woodley, and no reliable sources have directly criticized Woodley for using a low-quality publisher for this monograph. Note that on a different BLP article, Grayfell had removed positive sources with the justification that the only sources that could be used are those that specifically mention the article's subject. 29 April - Original synthesis, implying that the author of this book used his position on the journal's editorial board to secure a positive review, although no sources make that argument. Grayfell's only source for this statement was the journal's editorial board page on the relevant date at archive.org. 6 March, 24 May, 25 May - Similar to the previous example, on the Heiner Rindermann article. 25 May, 26 May - These edits cite a reliable source, but misrepresent what the source says. Grayfell's edits say that Woodley "helped to organize the London Conference on Intelligence, a conference on eugenics secretly held at University College London", but what the source says is that Woodley attended the London Conference on Intelligence, and helped to organize conferences for the International Society for Intelligence Research. The International Society for Intelligence Research is a much more respectable conference than the London Conference on Intelligence, so claiming that Woodley helped to organize LCI rather than ISIR is a severe misrepresentation. 28 May - After his change to the Woodley article was reverted a second time, Grayfell changed "helped to organize" to "participated in", but it's still inappropriate to state in Misplaced Pages's voice that eugenics was a focus of the conference. Other sources have mentioned that only two of the conference's 75 presentations were about eugenics, and this was previously pointed out to Grayfell here. If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months: 4 January Additional comments by editor filing complaint I am making this report following the discussion here, at the suggestion of an editor who can't make a report because he doesn't have an account. Grayfell has a pattern of making edits that violate the strict sourcing requirements for statements about living people, particularly on articles about living people related to the race and intelligence controversy. Aside from the examples given above, a longer-term example of the problem is his pattern of edits to the Gerhard Meisenberg article: On 25 July, Grayfell heavily modified the article and added several negative statements. The following month, the article was tagged as an attack page. In response to the tag, two editors, user:GB_fan and User:Narssarssuaq, attempted to restore balance to the article. Both of these users' changes were subsequently undone by Grayfell, restoring the article to the version that had been tagged as an attack page. From August 2018 until the end of last year, Grayfell also reverted seven other edits by various users attempting to correct the same issues. On 6 May, the article was tagged as an attack page a second time. The second tagging led to the article being raised at the BLP noticeboard, and to an argument on the talk page between Grayfell and an IP editor. Based on the IP's analysis of the article's sources, a large portion of the negative material Grayfell had been restoring was cited to sources that do not mention Meisenberg, despite Grayfell's argument on the Seymour Itzkoff article that sources must mention the article's subject. This discussion led to the material in the Meisenberg article finally being removed without Grayfell restoring it, after having stayed in that article for almost a year. Misplaced Pages:Biographies_of_living_persons#Reliable_sources says, "contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced should be removed immediately and without discussion", but Grayfell is making that policy impossible to follow with his habit of repeatedly restoring this material when other users attempt to remove it. According to the IP's statements here and here, the material added by Grayfell has had real-life consequences for the subject of one of these articles. This situation seems to recur on a different article every few weeks, so I request that admins please find a long-term solution to the problem. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Grayfell&diff=899399167&oldid=899384616 Discussion concerning Grayfell Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Grayfell Line by line: For the first two: One book's own contributors also lists Scott-Townsend Publishers. According to Scott Townsend Publisher's website, it is the publishing division of the "Council for Social and Economic Studies", which is puts out the Journal of Social, Political, and Economic Studies. All of these are part of Roger Pearson's publishing outfit. I maintain that as an encyclopedia, we should indicate to researchers when they are dipping into the fringes. The SPLC documents Pearson's activity, if that was an issue. Other editors feel it's sufficient indicate this in links to the articles on these publishers. For the frequency of favorable reviews in Intelligence, the otherwise respectable outlet's reputation as a safe-harbor for this is well-documented by sources, specifically regarding Lynn and Meisenberg. I did make an error in saying that Woodley helped organize the London conference, which as mentioned, I corrected. As for the source which mentions that "only two" of the conference's presentations were about eugenics, this is the same letter, written by attendees, which is already mentioned in the article. This letter was organized by Woodley (again published in Intelligence) in response to the multiple reliable sources which discussed the conference's focus on race and intelligence. Calling this conference "controversial" seems confusing and euphemistic to me, and since many sources have discussed its connection to eugenics, or even just called it a "eugenics conference",(etc) I think it's appropriate to use plain language to explain the issue. As for Meisenberg, see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Gmeisenberg. Using the "additional comments" section as an expansion pack to the 500 char limit makes it tedious for me to respond to any specific issue without giving it more weight than is justified. If there are any questions, I will answer them. Grayfell (talk) 20:46, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Response to the IP: Your insistence that an account would be too much of a commitment is starting to ring hollow. At this point I think that by avoiding making an account, you are avoiding scrutiny and accountability. I do not know why Meisenberg stopped working at that school, or at Mankind. Provide sources on the article's talk page, please. The behavior you are describing from others falls under WP:COI and WP:MEAT. Regardless, reliable sources still overrule first-hand knowledge. While it may be convenient to make me a boogieman, several of the people you mention did not revert me, and were not reverted by me. You have also left-out many of the people who have supported these changes. Notifying sympathetic editors while ignoring unsympathetic ones seems to be part of a pattern, but it's WP:CANVASSing regardless. If you are satisfied with the current status of Meisenberg's article... what, exactly, is the problem here? I recognize that consensus has led to the current wording, even if I do not fully agree with it. I could go into why, but this isn't the place for that, is it? Regardless, Meisenberg placed his name on the letterheads of these controversial organizations. As an encyclopedia, we must what reflect what sources say about his actions, and the consequences of his actions. In this situation, ignoring sources and favoring euphemistic language would be a form of advocacy. That is no more appropriate than what you are accusing me of doing. Grayfell (talk) 23:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Pudeo: These unsupported aspersions are insulting to everyone here. Grayfell (talk) 23:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Ahrtoodeetoo I'm not familiar with all of the policy issues involved, but this request should be closed immediately because it seems inappropriate for one editor to proxy for another here. ~~Among the underlying issues is the fact that Awilley believes (or at least believed) that the IP editor Sinuthius is proxying for has been site banned.~~ No comment on the merits. R2 (bleep) 19:56, 29 May 2019 (UTC) I struck my comment about possible block evasion. The IP is correct, the one whom Awilley accused of block evasion was someone from Los Angeles, while this one is from the Knoxville, Tennessee area. Sorry for the mix-up. R2 (bleep) 23:29, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by IP editor I'm the IP editor who requested for this report to be made. (Note that the IP mentioned by R2, who was accused of being a banned editor, was a different IP editor located several hundred miles from me.) There is an important reason I think this issue goes beyond a content dispute. Even in cases where Grayfell's views about sourcing are opposed by almost everyone else (as they have been on the Woodley article), his practice of restoring his changes whenever they're undone makes it extremely difficult to undo them permanently. On the Gerhard Meisenberg article, Grayfell restored his material after it was removed by six different users: User:GB_fan, User:Narssarssuaq, user:WalterNeumann, user:Ermaneric, user:Yucahu, and user:Evangw29114. In his response above, Grayfell justified his actions by linking to an investigation where one of these users, Yucahu, was eventually blocked as a sockpuppet. None of the others appear to have been sockpuppets. Above Grayfell stated, "several of the people you mention did not revert me, and were not reverted by me", so here's a summary with diffs. Ermaneric removes material, Grayfell restores it. WalterNeumann removes material, Grayfell restores it. GB fan removes material, Grayfell restores it. Narssarssuaq removes material, Grayfell restores it. Yucahu removes material, Grayfell restores it, Yucahu removes material, Grayfell restores it, Yucahu removes material, Grayfell restores it. Evangw29114 removes material, Grayfell restores it, Evangw29114 removes material, Grayfell restores it. Based on my discussions about this article with Dr. Meisenberg, I think I know why so many new users showed up on the article during that period. After Meisenberg lost his job because of the material Grayfell added to that article, the effects that this article had on him in real life became widely-known among Meisenberg's colleagues and former students, and several of them made attempts at bringing the article into compliance with BLP policy. However, all of those attempts were foiled by Grayfell, until I finally accomplished it earlier this month. One of the arbitration rulings linked to by Sinuthius says: Misplaced Pages articles that present material about living people can affect their subjects' lives. Misplaced Pages editors who deal with these articles have a responsibility to consider the legal and ethical implications of their actions when doing so. In cases where the appropriateness of material regarding a living person is questioned, the rule of thumb should be "do no harm." This means, among other things, that such material should be removed until a decision to include it is reached, rather than being included until a decision to remove it is reached. What happened on the Meisenberg article seems to be exactly the situation that this ruling was designed to prevent. Grayfell has not acknowledged any problem with his actions on that article, and has continued to make similar edits to other BLP articles over the past month, so it's almost inevitable that another living person will eventually be harmed in a similar way. It will be a major failure on Misplaced Pages's part if nothing is done to prevent that. 2600:1004:B11D:8156:8834:1B10:BB88:F00E (talk) 00:48, 30 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Pudeo There are suspicions that the POV-pushing Grayfell is engaging in coordinated off-site. Check this WMF Labs editor interaction tool comparing Grayfell with a self-identified Gamergate SPA who wants to put other editors "to the wall". These articles are the same "cultural war" topics that the GamerGate ArbCom Case was about. --Pudeo (talk) 23:08, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Beyond My Ken Per the completely unusupported WP:ASPERSIONS in the above statement by Pudeo, obviously meant to muddy the waters and poison the well, Pudeo should be sanctioned, or, at the very least, warned. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:30, 30 May 2019 (UTC) Also, I note that in filing this report, the OP is essentially acting as a proxy for the IP user 2600:1004:B166:CA1D:B902:B86:4B74:256A, as can be seen in this thread on User talk:DGG. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:36, 30 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof Interesting that Pudeo refers to purported "suspicions" of off-site coordination as if they are some known quantity, without providing a link to any on-wiki discussions of these purported "suspicions." Is Pudeo's post itself an off-site-coordinated attempt to smear Grayfell? NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 03:31, 30 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Grayfell This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Report is a bit long for my liking, but at a glance, seems worth looking into. I await other respondents. El_C 20:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Beyond My Ken is right. Pudeo, please refrain from casting aspersions. That isn't gonna be tolerated. El_C 01:33, 30 May 2019 (UTC) "At the suggestion of" is not exactly acting as a proxy, but it is disconcerting. El_C 01:42, 30 May 2019 (UTC) ~~Swarm, this is the notification, is it not?~~ Oh an alert. El_C 03:22, 30 May 2019 (UTC) I've not read the "Additional comments" because they exceed the character limit. Based on the reported diffs, this looks primarily like a content dispute to me, which is not for AE to resolve. Sandstein 21:13, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Without reviewing the merits of the complaint, this is not a valid notification, and Grayfell was not issued a formal notification. Unless there's something else that satisfies the awareness criteria, this will not be actionable. ~Swarm~ 03:18, 30 May 2019 (UTC) Due to the lack of notice, I agree with closing this complaint with no action. This appears to be a dispute about race and intelligence. None of the participants have so far been notified of that case in the manner required by WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts. EdJohnston (talk) 04:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Not actionable. El_C 04:26, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Grayfell

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Sinuthius (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:42, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Grayfell (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race_and_intelligence#Editors_reminded_and_discretionary_sanctions_(amended) and Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Editing_of_Biographies_of_Living_Persons#Biographies_of_living_persons

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

26 April, 29 April - Adding an out-of-place comment in the bibliography of the Michael A. Woodley of Menie, Yr. article, based on a false statement about the identity of the publisher of Woodley's monograph "The Rhythm of the West". Its actual publisher is given at WorldCat.
30 April - The same as the previous two edits, but with the correct publisher. However, there is another problem: the cited SPLC source does not mention Woodley, and no reliable sources have directly criticized Woodley for using a low-quality publisher for this monograph. Note that on a different BLP article, Grayfell had removed positive sources with the justification that the only sources that could be used are those that specifically mention the article's subject.
29 April - Original synthesis, implying that the author of this book used his position on the journal's editorial board to secure a positive review, although no sources make that argument. Grayfell's only source for this statement was the journal's editorial board page on the relevant date at archive.org.
6 March, 24 May, 25 May - Similar to the previous example, on the Heiner Rindermann article.
25 May, 26 May - These edits cite a reliable source, but misrepresent what the source says. Grayfell's edits say that Woodley "helped to organize the London Conference on Intelligence, a conference on eugenics secretly held at University College London", but what the source says is that Woodley attended the London Conference on Intelligence, and helped to organize conferences for the International Society for Intelligence Research. The International Society for Intelligence Research is a much more respectable conference than the London Conference on Intelligence, so claiming that Woodley helped to organize LCI rather than ISIR is a severe misrepresentation.
28 May - After his change to the Woodley article was reverted a second time, Grayfell changed "helped to organize" to "participated in", but it's still inappropriate to state in Misplaced Pages's voice that eugenics was a focus of the conference. Other sources have mentioned that only two of the conference's 75 presentations were about eugenics, and this was previously pointed out to Grayfell here.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months: 4 January

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I am making this report following the discussion here, at the suggestion of an editor who can't make a report because he doesn't have an account. Grayfell has a pattern of making edits that violate the strict sourcing requirements for statements about living people, particularly on articles about living people related to the race and intelligence controversy. Aside from the examples given above, a longer-term example of the problem is his pattern of edits to the Gerhard Meisenberg article:

On 25 July, Grayfell heavily modified the article and added several negative statements. The following month, the article was tagged as an attack page. In response to the tag, two editors, user:GB_fan and User:Narssarssuaq, attempted to restore balance to the article. Both of these users' changes were subsequently undone by Grayfell, restoring the article to the version that had been tagged as an attack page. From August 2018 until the end of last year, Grayfell also reverted seven other edits by various users attempting to correct the same issues.

On 6 May, the article was tagged as an attack page a second time. The second tagging led to the article being raised at the BLP noticeboard, and to an argument on the talk page between Grayfell and an IP editor. Based on the IP's analysis of the article's sources, a large portion of the negative material Grayfell had been restoring was cited to sources that do not mention Meisenberg, despite Grayfell's argument on the Seymour Itzkoff article that sources must mention the article's subject. This discussion led to the material in the Meisenberg article finally being removed without Grayfell restoring it, after having stayed in that article for almost a year.

Misplaced Pages:Biographies_of_living_persons#Reliable_sources says, "contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced should be removed immediately and without discussion", but Grayfell is making that policy impossible to follow with his habit of repeatedly restoring this material when other users attempt to remove it. According to the IP's statements here and here, the material added by Grayfell has had real-life consequences for the subject of one of these articles. This situation seems to recur on a different article every few weeks, so I request that admins please find a long-term solution to the problem.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Grayfell&diff=899399167&oldid=899384616

Discussion concerning Grayfell

Statement by Grayfell

Line by line:

For the first two: One book's own contributors also lists Scott-Townsend Publishers. According to Scott Townsend Publisher's website, it is the publishing division of the "Council for Social and Economic Studies", which is puts out the Journal of Social, Political, and Economic Studies. All of these are part of Roger Pearson's publishing outfit. I maintain that as an encyclopedia, we should indicate to researchers when they are dipping into the fringes. The SPLC documents Pearson's activity, if that was an issue. Other editors feel it's sufficient indicate this in links to the articles on these publishers.
For the frequency of favorable reviews in Intelligence, the otherwise respectable outlet's reputation as a safe-harbor for this is well-documented by sources, specifically regarding Lynn and Meisenberg.
I did make an error in saying that Woodley helped organize the London conference, which as mentioned, I corrected. As for the source which mentions that "only two" of the conference's presentations were about eugenics, this is the same letter, written by attendees, which is already mentioned in the article. This letter was organized by Woodley (again published in Intelligence) in response to the multiple reliable sources which discussed the conference's focus on race and intelligence. Calling this conference "controversial" seems confusing and euphemistic to me, and since many sources have discussed its connection to eugenics, or even just called it a "eugenics conference",(etc) I think it's appropriate to use plain language to explain the issue.
As for Meisenberg, see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Gmeisenberg. Using the "additional comments" section as an expansion pack to the 500 char limit makes it tedious for me to respond to any specific issue without giving it more weight than is justified. If there are any questions, I will answer them.

Grayfell (talk) 20:46, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Response to the IP: Your insistence that an account would be too much of a commitment is starting to ring hollow. At this point I think that by avoiding making an account, you are avoiding scrutiny and accountability.

I do not know why Meisenberg stopped working at that school, or at Mankind. Provide sources on the article's talk page, please.

The behavior you are describing from others falls under WP:COI and WP:MEAT. Regardless, reliable sources still overrule first-hand knowledge.

While it may be convenient to make me a boogieman, several of the people you mention did not revert me, and were not reverted by me. You have also left-out many of the people who have supported these changes. Notifying sympathetic editors while ignoring unsympathetic ones seems to be part of a pattern, but it's WP:CANVASSing regardless.

If you are satisfied with the current status of Meisenberg's article... what, exactly, is the problem here? I recognize that consensus has led to the current wording, even if I do not fully agree with it. I could go into why, but this isn't the place for that, is it?

Regardless, Meisenberg placed his name on the letterheads of these controversial organizations. As an encyclopedia, we must what reflect what sources say about his actions, and the consequences of his actions. In this situation, ignoring sources and favoring euphemistic language would be a form of advocacy. That is no more appropriate than what you are accusing me of doing. Grayfell (talk) 23:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Pudeo: These unsupported aspersions are insulting to everyone here. Grayfell (talk) 23:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Ahrtoodeetoo

I'm not familiar with all of the policy issues involved, but this request should be closed immediately because it seems inappropriate for one editor to proxy for another here. ~~Among the underlying issues is the fact that Awilley believes (or at least believed) that the IP editor Sinuthius is proxying for has been site banned.~~ No comment on the merits. R2 (bleep) 19:56, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I struck my comment about possible block evasion. The IP is correct, the one whom Awilley accused of block evasion was someone from Los Angeles, while this one is from the Knoxville, Tennessee area. Sorry for the mix-up. R2 (bleep) 23:29, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by IP editor

I'm the IP editor who requested for this report to be made. (Note that the IP mentioned by R2, who was accused of being a banned editor, was a different IP editor located several hundred miles from me.) There is an important reason I think this issue goes beyond a content dispute. Even in cases where Grayfell's views about sourcing are opposed by almost everyone else (as they have been on the Woodley article), his practice of restoring his changes whenever they're undone makes it extremely difficult to undo them permanently.

On the Gerhard Meisenberg article, Grayfell restored his material after it was removed by six different users: User:GB_fan, User:Narssarssuaq, user:WalterNeumann, user:Ermaneric, user:Yucahu, and user:Evangw29114. In his response above, Grayfell justified his actions by linking to an investigation where one of these users, Yucahu, was eventually blocked as a sockpuppet. None of the others appear to have been sockpuppets.

Based on my discussions about this article with Dr. Meisenberg, I think I know why so many new users showed up on the article during that period. After Meisenberg lost his job because of the material Grayfell added to that article, the effects that this article had on him in real life became widely-known among Meisenberg's colleagues and former students, and several of them made attempts at bringing the article into compliance with BLP policy. However, all of those attempts were foiled by Grayfell, until I finally accomplished it earlier this month.

One of the arbitration rulings linked to by Sinuthius says: Misplaced Pages articles that present material about living people can affect their subjects' lives. Misplaced Pages editors who deal with these articles have a responsibility to consider the legal and ethical implications of their actions when doing so. In cases where the appropriateness of material regarding a living person is questioned, the rule of thumb should be "do no harm." This means, among other things, that such material should be removed until a decision to include it is reached, rather than being included until a decision to remove it is reached.

What happened on the Meisenberg article seems to be exactly the situation that this ruling was designed to prevent. Grayfell has not acknowledged any problem with his actions on that article, and has continued to make similar edits to other BLP articles over the past month, so it's almost inevitable that another living person will eventually be harmed in a similar way. It will be a major failure on Misplaced Pages's part if nothing is done to prevent that. 2600:1004:B11D:8156:8834:1B10:BB88:F00E (talk) 00:48, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Pudeo

There are suspicions that the POV-pushing Grayfell is engaging in coordinated off-site. Check this WMF Labs editor interaction tool comparing Grayfell with a self-identified Gamergate SPA who wants to put other editors "to the wall". These articles are the same "cultural war" topics that the GamerGate ArbCom Case was about. --Pudeo (talk) 23:08, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken

Per the completely unusupported WP:ASPERSIONS in the above statement by Pudeo, obviously meant to muddy the waters and poison the well, Pudeo should be sanctioned, or, at the very least, warned. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:30, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Also, I note that in filing this report, the OP is essentially acting as a proxy for the IP user 2600:1004:B166:CA1D:B902:B86:4B74:256A, as can be seen in this thread on User talk:DGG. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:36, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by NorthBySouthBaranof

Interesting that Pudeo refers to purported "suspicions" of off-site coordination as if they are some known quantity, without providing a link to any on-wiki discussions of these purported "suspicions." Is Pudeo's post itself an off-site-coordinated attempt to smear Grayfell? NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 03:31, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Grayfell

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Report is a bit long for my liking, but at a glance, seems worth looking into. I await other respondents. El_C 20:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Beyond My Ken is right. Pudeo, please refrain from casting aspersions. That isn't gonna be tolerated. El_C 01:33, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

"At the suggestion of" is not exactly acting as a proxy, but it is disconcerting. El_C 01:42, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

~~Swarm, this is the notification, is it not?~~ Oh an alert. El_C 03:22, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

I've not read the "Additional comments" because they exceed the character limit. Based on the reported diffs, this looks primarily like a content dispute to me, which is not for AE to resolve. Sandstein 21:13, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Without reviewing the merits of the complaint, this is not a valid notification, and Grayfell was not issued a formal notification. Unless there's something else that satisfies the awareness criteria, this will not be actionable. ~Swarm~ 03:18, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Due to the lack of notice, I agree with closing this complaint with no action. This appears to be a dispute about race and intelligence. None of the participants have so far been notified of that case in the manner required by WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts. EdJohnston (talk) 04:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Volunteer Marek

Request concerning Volunteer Marek

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Icewhiz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:01, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Standard discretionary sanctions, specific policy violations listed below

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Accusations of extremism

13:11, 28 May 2019 - "Translation: "the lede does not reflect my extremist POV so I'm gonna claim it's "unbalanced" and make WP:TENDENTIOUS edits". - WP:NPA,WP:ASPERSIONS
15:06, 18 May 2019 - "Not even gonna take that extremist nonsense form you seriously" - WP:V,WP:NPA

Accusations of racism

18:21, 20 May 2019 - "The source does NOT "tie two phenomena together". You do. It's a COATRACK for the whole disgusting and racist "Poles are anti-semities" POV into this article.". WP:NPA+ baseless accusation ( Haaretz does tie).
05:30, 30 May 2019 - "You have been asked REPEATEDLY to stop evaluating sources on the basis of racist ethnic criteria." - WP:NPA/WP:ASPERSIONS, misunderstanding WP:NPOV. Saying UK/US media have different POV than Polish media, and Polish government stmts/reports - is not "racist".
14:21, 20 May 2019 - "rmv POV, rmv gratuitous stereotyping and ethnic generalizations" - BLP (named) and/or NPA.

NPA/ASPERSIONS

06:14, 28 May 2019 - "another spurious WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT tag, WP:BATTLEGROUND tag. There's no "over reliance" on anything and your previous objection was addressed, so now you're just trying to make any ol' excuse up" - WP:ASPERSIONS,WP:NPA,WP:WNTRMT.
04:49, 28 May 2019 - "spurious tag, appears to be WP:STALK of another user and WP:BATTLEGROUND". False accusations, I tagged 3 March + opened Talk:Albert Forster#Poles and Jews extermination (no response when I reverted tag). WP:ASPERSIONS,WP:WNTRMT.
08:34, 28 May 2019 "Sure. When they stop making shit up and derailing discussions"" - WP:CIVIL,WP:NPA

OR/V

03:22, 25 May 2019 - tags clarify on "they are popular", edit summary - "what does "popular" mean? They're actually pretty rare". WP:V/WP:CIR vs. cited sources. Also diff, diff.

BLP

06:32, 26 May 2019 - restoring WP:BLPSPS. See Talk:Antony Polonsky#Alleged PDF by Stachura.
21:58, 26 May 2019 - "*you* are the one violating BLP.", 05:36, 28 May 2019 - "You created a whole section dedicated to attacking OTHER living people" - WP:ASPERSIONS - false, others added in 2012.

V/OR/BLP when reinstating content by sockpuppets

Per WP:PROXYING - "Editors who reinstate edits made by a banned or blocked editor take complete responsibility for the content.". Removal stated sock addition (Loosmark):

05:43, 30 May 2019. By Matalea. Material not in cited source. WP:V/WP:OR. 07:47, 30 May 2019 - "It's not "OR" it's just "knowing what the fuck one is talking about when trying to write an article rather than just making obnoxious POV edits". - WP:NPA after queried.
07:00, 30 May 2019 By Stawiski, multiple issues, glaring one: Jew marking in first lede sentence - "Roman Romkowski born Natan Grünspan-Kikiel, (May 22, 1907 – July 1, 1965) was a Polish communist official of Jewish background trained by Comintern..... MOS:ETHNICITY WP:NPOV.
06:43, 30 May 2019 By Matalea. Removal of anti-Jewish violence connection. Reinstated allegedly from ref: SYNTH (no CKZP), fails V. "created opportunities for ... special privileges for the immigrants" is contradicted by ref itself on page 72 (PM rejected proposal). WP:OR/WP:V.
05:24, 29 May 2019. By FoliesTrévise. Removal of academic sources addressing Belarus. Reinstating poor sources: blog, se.pl tabloid, naukowa.pl bookstore, etc. V issues. BLP issues - stating BLPs wrote something they hadn't. See Talk:Poles in Belarus#Ellman & Montefiore. WP:CIR / WP:V / WP:BLP

References

Devorah Hakohen, Immigrants in turmoil: mass immigration to Israel and its repercussions... Syracuse University Press, 2003 - 325 pages. Page 70. ISBN 0-8156-2969-9
Devorah Hakohen, Immigrants in turmoil: mass immigration to Israel and its repercussions... Syracuse University Press, 2003 - 325 pages. Page 72. ISBN 0-8156-2969-9

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

alerted 03:44, 23 May 2019 AE appeal 3 March 2019

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Trimmed.Icewhiz (talk) 20:56, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: notified

Discussion concerning Volunteer Marek

Statement by Volunteer Marek

It's going to take me some time to properly respond. There's a lot here and I can't respond to it without providing proper context, diffs and examples of Icewhiz's own behavior that my comments are responding too. This dispute has been ongoing for sometime now - it basically started when Icewhiz began editing the topic area. This has been at WP:AE before and Icewhiz recently made an effort at WP:ARBCOM which was soundly rejected. You'll have to give me a bit of time here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:04, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Really quick, even a cursory look at some diffs shows that it's nonsense and that Icewhiz is blatantly misrepresenting the situation. For example, second diff by Icewhiz , Icewhiz claims that my statement "Not even gonna take that extremist nonsense form you seriously" is directed at Dr. Jolanta Ambrosewicz-Jacobs. This is nonsense. The statement is directed at Icewhiz as the word "you" clearly indicates and his repeated derisive characterization of a professional historian and reliable source, P Gontarczyk, as a "radio historian" because... the guy gave an interview on radio (there are more examples of this). That's right, Icewhiz is trying to claim that because a historian gave a radio interview, that makes them unreliable. That itself is a BLP vio - denigrating living people, and Icewhiz has been repeatedly warned about using Misplaced Pages to attack scholars he disagrees with.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

@El C: - before I respond in detail, I would like to make a general note that at this point an ArbCom case might very well be necessary. I actually have a very large number of diffs which document extremely problematic behavior from Icewhiz, particularly in regard to BLPs, use of sources, and misleading invocations of policy that spans the last two years which show a clear pattern of conduct. The diffs themselves might go well beyond the word limit at WP:AE.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:17, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

@El C: - thanks. With regard to the word limit - There's fifteen diffs here. Icewhiz's request is itself almost 1000 words (about double the allowed limit). It takes a lot more words to respond to an accusation than to make an accusation. It's simple to say "VM accused me of extremism". To respond to that I have to explain WHY I made that accusation, provide supporting evidence, and diffs. There's no way that I can adequately respond with under 500 words. It's unrealistic to ask me to do that. This is part of the reason why I think this might very well belong at ArbCom where a sufficient detail can be provided.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:39, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Icewhiz: " *you* are the one violating BLP..", 05:36, 28 May 2019 - he was here (attacking a scholar he disagrees with) ditto

"You created a whole section dedicated to attacking OTHER living people" - WP:ASPERSIONS - false, created in 2012 by other editors. - the original section may have not been created by Icewhiz but its current shape (at the time of the diff) was constructed by Icewhiz in edits on May 8th (and subsequent) and given its BLP vio title by Icewhiz and here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:29, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Can someone explain to me what "ANI thread" Sir Joseph is referring to and what the hey he is going on about? Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

User:MJL thanks. But I'm still at a loss as to what that has to do with this WP:AE report and why Sir Joseph is bringing it up here. He seems to be insinuating some kind of "bad" on my part in that ANI (come on man, if you think I did something wrong, have the guts to come out and say it) but there I made only one comment, in which I actually agreed with Jayjg. I guess if you want to be more precise, in that situation you got one WP:SPA tagging certain "controversial" Polish-Jewish individuals as "Jewish", while Icewhiz on the other hand is running around and trying to tag the same/similar Polish-Jewish individuals as "Polish". My point there was, that in both cases it's kind of ridiculous and WP:TEND, since both individuals ethnicity and citizenship can easily be inferred from the context. The WP:SPA got rightly blocked/banned for this. Why Icewhiz was allowed to get away with the same kind of behavior is a good question indeed.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:39, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Sir Joseph

We see VM here often enough, in several different subject areas, but in this case we see several diffs that are clearly actionable that are either blockable or are at the very least worthy of a TBAN and I don't think we need to wait for a full on ARBCOM case to settle this. Sir Joseph 18:05, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

@El C:If you don't want to read the whole thing, you can start with the first couple of diffs, and they are clearly actionable, calling people extremist and personal attacks is not allowed and is typical of VM's behavior. It should not be allowed to continue, especially in this topic area. Sir Joseph 19:59, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

@El C:I understand that, but neither are allowed here, further, people have been blocked here for saying someone has a "nationalist POV." Further, that is just the tip of the iceberg with regards to VM's edits, and for some reason at AE he seems to always get away with things, so he continues with his ways.

As for the ANI thread, as it points out, there seems to be this disturbing fascination with a specific topic. Whether he is blocked or not, a TBAN is in order. And I do urge some admin to visit that ANI thread and start using a fishing net and throw out TBANs. While one person was oversight blocked, that is not enough. There is a resurgence of a POV that is making its way into Misplaced Pages that we need to stop fast. Sir Joseph 20:25, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

There is something about Zero's comment that just rubs me the wrong way. I just can't put my finger on it. It's also ironic I think considering the topic. Sir Joseph 22:55, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by François Robere

Question to admins: Is WP:NPA policy? If so, why is it consistently ignored?

"Very clearly someone went through the internet and tried to drudge up anything negative to add here" - no, I didn't. It was actually a fairly harsh criticism of the subject's theoretical approach, that I think went well with the (many) other criticisms of his ideological involvement. Instead of a proper criticism (eg. on relevance or clarity), VM went for a personal attack.
"f no. Enough of these BLP vios and using Misplaced Pages articles as smear pages. I've tried to keep all the legitimate and well sourced criticism in the article to the extent it was possible but the over the top nasty and gleeful attacks DO violate BLP" - about a completely RS and DUE criticism by Joanna Michlic, project director at Brandeis and a fellow at Harvard and UCL. Like most critiques in that article, this too was eventually accepted into the consensus.
"Stop making shit up" - an oft-repeated phrase. It may sounds like an off-hand comment, but it's actually a serious accusation: that an editor falsified information. I don't understand why admins take it so lightly.

François Robere (talk) 18:46, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

Instead of just looking at VM's statements to Icewhiz, one should consider whether VM's charges of bias have a solid basis. The fact is that VM is the only editor with the energy to counter Icewhiz's dedicated moulding of the entire Polish/Jewish area. Zero 22:23, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by MJL

@Volunteer Marek: For your convenience: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#MOS:ETHNICITY on articles about Polish Jews (permalink). –MJL ‐Talk‐ 00:24, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Volunteer Marek

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm not that familiar with the dispute/s, even though I'm the one who applied DS to History of the Jews in Poland (WP:AEL#2019#Eastern_Europe — yes, I realize it's in Central Europe!). There's a lot of evidence to review here, which is difficult to do (for me, at least) without additional context. At any rate, although, at a glance, this report seems worth looking into, it may actually be better suited for a separate Arbitration case. I'm a bit undecided about that. But in light of the ANI (which I have not had a chance to review) having been oversignted, that perhaps should be the course of action here. I await other respondents (including VM, himself, of course), who are perhaps better informed than myself, before I make up my mind. El_C 18:01, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

I'll await to hear what VM has to say first — hopefully, it will be expressed with more civility and good faith than the manner in which those diffs depict — but, if we are to take action, I am leaning toward a topic ban. And perhaps also something along the lines of the no personal comments sanction that Awilley applied to SashiRolls. El_C 18:40, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

VM, take your time. No one is going to close this report before you get a chance to respond in detail. As mentioned, I still haven't decided whether this should be brought before the Committee, or settled here. Please do try to observe the word/diff limit, though. Thanks. El_C 19:23, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

VM, the length of Icewhiz's request work to their detriment. I suggest they shorten it to the accepted limit, focusing on just the most egregious examples (and that would be my suggestion to you, also) — it's not unlikely that less lenient admins than myself would prefer taking no action on that basis alone. El_C 19:48, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

SirJoseph, it's one thing to call someone an extremist, and it's another to call someone's point of view extremist. Because a point of view can suffer from misconceptions, whereas extremist people tend to do extremist things. Calling someone an extremist would be straight out personal attack. Not that calling someone's point of view extremist is a particularly civil way to engage with another editor — I'm not saying that, either. El_C 20:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

VM, if this assistant professor is not considered notable (failing WP:PROF), and the source in question is, indeed, an open access journal, then I don't see a BLP issue that's preventing us from stating this is so (in an edit summary, as the basis for its removal). El_C 20:48, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

I would suggest this needs to go to ArbCom now, otherwise we will be back here again soon, and the environment of AE with its associated peanut gallery is probably not conducive to such a complicated issue. Black Kite (talk) 23:00, 30 May 2019 (UTC)