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Revision as of 16:06, 18 July 2019 editSlugger O'Toole (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users34,133 edits →Roscelese← Previous edit Revision as of 15:14, 21 July 2019 edit undoNorthBySouthBaranof (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers33,477 edits →Wumbolo: new sectionNext edit →
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<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> <!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*Just noting that PeterTheFourth is correct. One edit that reverts 3 edits counts as one revert. As for Roscelese taking things personally...I begin to wonder if she might have a reason for that. This is the 4th AE report Slugger O'Toole has initiated against Roscelese in as many months. . Also it's pretty obvious when looking at the whole picture, when Roscelese reverted her self-revert with the edit summary "as previous edit wasn't a revert..." she was referencing edit, which as far as I can see is indeed not a revert. <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 15:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC) *Just noting that PeterTheFourth is correct. One edit that reverts 3 edits counts as one revert. As for Roscelese taking things personally...I begin to wonder if she might have a reason for that. This is the 4th AE report Slugger O'Toole has initiated against Roscelese in as many months. . Also it's pretty obvious when looking at the whole picture, when Roscelese reverted her self-revert with the edit summary "as previous edit wasn't a revert..." she was referencing edit, which as far as I can see is indeed not a revert. <span style="font-family:times; text-shadow: 0 0 .2em #7af">~] <small>(])</small></span> 15:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

== Wumbolo ==

==Wumbolo==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>

===Request concerning Wumbolo===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NorthBySouthBaranof}} 15:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Wumbolo}}<p>{{ds/log|Wumbolo}}
<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] :
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Makes undiscussed revert to ] (a page clearly related to ]) declaring a nonexistent consensus, when a cursory examination of the talk page shows a clear consensus for the prior version
# Adds claim that the article subject is a hypocrite and supports violence, based upon an article published by the Russian propaganda outlet '']''

; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
# Topic-banned from ] and related pages, and warned that further disruption in the American Politics area will likely result in further sanctions.

;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|Tony Ballioni}}.

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
Both of these edits are to ], a biography of a person in conflict with ] — the edits themselves are objectionable, and they also appear to be a clear-cut violation of Wumbolo's topic ban from Andy Ngo-related pages. ] (]) 15:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request, and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Discussion concerning USERNAME===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by USERNAME====

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->

===Result concerning USERNAME===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*

Revision as of 15:14, 21 July 2019

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    Buffs

    Clear consensus that Order of the Arrow does not fall under the scope of ARBAP2. The ban is therefore overturned. GoldenRing (talk) 09:21, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Buffs

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Buffs (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:41, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Buffs (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2 :

    I think, but this is an appeal, so I'm asking for UNenforcement.

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    N/A; an appeal

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

    N/A; an appeal

    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above. Not me
    • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above. Nope
    • Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on Date by Username (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). Nope
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Nothing in my log, nothing in my talk page history ,Nothing in the Arbitration enforcement log at the time
    • Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date. I've never given an alert to anyone; didn’t know I could
    • Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date. Nope
    • Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date. Nope

    Part of the problem is that none of these apply...I think...

    On the Order of the Arrow talk page I saw and asked how it fell under these sanctions and was told "On the earth side of the United States and around that aforementioned timeline." This interpretation basically means anything that has existed in the US since 1932 or involves discussion since 1932. I don't think that was the intent of the original sanctions. Given that the locus of the primary dispute is regarding language used in 1915 (and earlier), I don't think it should apply. Even if it did, the length of ban is highly disproportionate.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Admin El C put Order of the Arrow under discretionary sanctions without logging it. He put also put me under a TBAN as a discretionary sanction without logging it either. He then blocked me without checking to see if I'd had the required notification. I’m asking for the ban/block to be vacated. Details and diffs below as needed. Side note: I'm not familiar with this process, so if I missed something or I've filed it incorrectly, please...be gentle, but you are free to correct any problems

    Details/links

    An admin warned me not to use a collapse field on a talk page (It’s worth noting El C endorsed such actions just a few days prior, had been done to my remarks in the past with no complaint, and it was already undone/moved with no additional discussion/problems...i felt it'd been resolved). Another admin posted a warning to my talk page, but before I even saw the warning, under AE, El_C decided to increase that warning to a 6-month ban on the article for "underhanded conduct". And before I'd even had a chance to see the ban, El_C blocked me for a week for evading the ban (he later reverted it as he realized I hadn't seen it).

    These sanctions were not logged until after I was banned and blocked, as required. As such, actions taken under them should be invalidated.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Well, it's about me...so, yes, as the filer, I'm aware. Buffs (talk) 16:41, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

    Discussion concerning Buffs

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Buffs

    See above. Buffs (talk) 16:42, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

    @Sandstein: There's a lot of instructions and I guess I missed that one. It was not my intention to skip any required notifications. #Suggestion Update the requirements in this edit box to include "Ensure all sanctioning Admin(s) are notified"? Thanks to NewYorkBrad for notifying (sent message on talk page too)! Buffs (talk) 20:29, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Sandstein: The fact that the AE block even occurred is a related matter, even if undone; the fact that it isn't logged is also an issue. Buffs (talk) 20:29, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
    I am unaware of any ArbCom issues; not sure how that pertains to my ban. Buffs (talk) 21:55, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by El_C

    The matter is now before the Arbitration Committee (privately). Due to issues pertaining to privacy, I am unable to comment further at this time. Sorry.

    But briefly, in regards to the discretionary sanctions encompassing the article: most of the dispute seem to revolve around modern claims of "cultural appropriation," which is why I felt AP2 applied. I continue to stand by that evaluation.

    Again, sorry for taking up the board's time, but I was only pinged (which currently just happens to be not good enough). A notice on my user talk page was due. El_C 20:10, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

    Sorry, if I wasn't clear. I advise against lifting restrictions at this time. It's probably better for the Committee to be done with this first before that should happen. El_C 21:39, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Buffs

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • At first glance, issues of awareness aside, the page ban of 10 July 2019 appears invalid because Order of the Arrow, the article at issue, has nothing to do with US politics. It's about scouting. Perhaps El_C can explain why they think it is in scope of the sanctions, in addition to how the awareness criteria were met. As to the (unlogged) AE block of 01:47, 10 July 2019, it's been lifted, so technically we can't review it. Sandstein 18:53, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
    • I would lift the ban as out of scope. Cultural appropriation is an issue of American culture and society, not politics. I have not examined whether the conduct at issue would even merit sanction if it were not out of scope. I encourage El_C to be more careful in taking account of the procedural requirements of discretionary sanctions. Sandstein 06:08, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    • I'm inclined to say that "Order of the Arrow" is a step too far from American Politics to fall under AP2. (I don't think cultural appropriation is uniquely American either.) I would vacate the ban on those grounds as well as for failing to meet the awareness criteria. I don't think we can do anything about the block/unblock, though like El_C I can also take Buff's explanation at face value (starting a post before the ban, eating dinner, then finishing the post and hitting Publish before visiting their talk page). I looked at Buffs's user talk page and there seemed to be some "talking past each other" going on there. Hopefully resetting this won't interfere with whatever private Arbcom dealings El_C alluded to above. ~Awilley (talk) 20:52, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
    @El C: Thanks for the clarification, I didn't realize that was what you were saying earlier...it struck me as a bit cryptic. ~Awilley (talk) 22:40, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
    • I don't think the Order of the Arrow article falls under the post-1932 politics of the United States, the controversy surrounding the claims of cultural appropriation doesn't seem to be particularly political. I suggest lifting the ban on those grounds. Hut 8.5 10:18, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
    • Agreeing with Awilley and Hut 8.5's take here. Don't think this falls under the post-1932 scope. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 00:13, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    • Agree. Obviously out of scope. El_C's response to the user's inquiry as to how it could be construed as being in scope is extremely dismissive and disingenuous. His attempt to argue that the AP sanctions extend to the topic of cultural appropriation is seriously unconvincing. Additionally, that the awareness criteria were not satisfied, and the actions not logged, are all cause for serious concern. De-tag the page and lift the ban. ~Swarm~ 03:14, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

    Roscelese

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Roscelese

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Slugger O'Toole (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 01:20, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Roscelese (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Christianity_and_Sexuality#Motion:_Roscelese_restricted_.28September_2015.29 :


    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    As far as I know, Roscelese has three restrictions placed upon her, including only making one revert per page per day. She is also prohibited from engaging in conduct which, in the opinion of any uninvolved administrator, casts aspersions, or personalises disputes.

    Only July 16th she made one large edit that contained three reverts. For the record, some of these changes I agreed with and others I did not. For this edit she started a new section on the talk page entitled "Reverts" and includes three bullet points. I leave it up to the judgement of administrators as to whether one edit with three reverts counts as one revert or three. However, just three minutes later, she made another edit in which she reverted another contribution. This, I submit, is clearly a violation of the one revert per page per day restriction.

    Roughly 23 hours later, after her initial edit was reverted, she made a similar edit. I don't know if "per day" in this context means calendar day or 24 hour period but, judging by WP:3RR, I assume it is the later. About 90 minutes later, she made another revert to the same article. To her credit, she self reverted this but gave as an explanation that she "didn't notice intervening edit," and not that she wasn't allowed to make two reverts page per day. Lest she claim that this was just an edit, and not a reversion, please note her edit summary and her comments on the talk page where she discusses (the five week old addition) as an " extremely recent" addition and suggests I employ BRD if I want to keep the material. She clearly considered it a reversion.

    To her credit, she did discuss these edits on the talk page. However, in so doing, I suggest she ran afoul of her prohibition on personalizing disputes. See said that I was "intentionally" misrepresenting a source, then again said I was "aware that addition misrepresents the source, but wish to add it anyway." This was despite my good faith efforts to show her why I thought my interpretation was correct and hers was mistaken. She then accused me of "intentionally keeping in the wrong section." Her next comment again impugned my motives by asking "Is there some sort of opposite-day game going on that no one tipped me off about?... You are not a new user and I shouldn't need to explain this to you." If giving the benefit of the doubt, one could read these more charitably and say that these are not personalizing disputes. However, when her edit summaries simply and continually read "sigh," I don't think this more charitable reading is warranted.

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. June 10, 2019 Roscelese was recently blocked for one month for violating the same restrictions.
    2. April 26, 2019 Two week block
    3. April 4, 2019 One week block
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Since filing this complaint, Roscelese has unreverted her self revert by claiming that the initial "edit wasn't a revert." That is to say, some material which she initially removed with an edit summary that said "reverts", and which she described on talk as being a "Revert," she is now claiming in her most recent edit summary is not a revert. As explained on talk I disagree with this removal, but don't plan to take any other action until this is resolved. This is, I note, her second revert in three hours. --Slugger O'Toole (talk) 03:51, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

    Roselese, I don't intend to get into a back in forth with you but the record is clear. I added material. You removed it. You described it as a revert. Twice. If that isn't a revert, I don't know what is. This wasn't just a run of the mill edit. --Slugger O'Toole (talk) 14:51, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

    To make things clear, my understanding of the restrictions placed against Rosclese are based, in part, upon the discussions in previous AE incidents. When she appealed her most recent block she made that argument that "As I explained at AE, I complied with my restriction in ... making only one revert per day, since consecutive edits are universally understood to constitute one edit." Her appeal was not successful. I took from this that consecutive edits were not to be considered a single edit. If I am mistaken then I apologize and would ask for clarification from @Sandstein:, the original admin who imposed the block, and @RegentsPark:, the admin who rejected the appeal. Regardless, there are still other instances of multiple reverts in a 24 hour period. --Slugger O'Toole (talk) 16:05, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    here


    Discussion concerning Roscelese

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    Statement by Roscelese

    Obviously this is not in violation of my restriction; I didn't violate my RR, and I think it's clear that I'm extending extremely good faith to Slugger (click the diffs rather than accepting his inaccurate paraphrases). AE is not a block dispenser for "winning" BRD by forfeit, and Slugger seems to be reading malice in my comments where I certainly intend none; I'm sure that this misunderstanding of the situation and of Misplaced Pages policy will be resolved with a quickness. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 01:36, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

    Slugger, I'm going to gently remind you again that not every edit is a revert. An edit that removes text is the opposite of an edit that keeps that text word-for-word and integrates it more fully into its appropriate section. The person who's making multiple reverts in the space of less than an hour here is you. If you believe that my restriction should bar me from making more than one edit to an article per day, I strongly recommend that you propose this as a change, instead of trying to enforce it before it exists. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 07:26, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by PeterTheFourth

    WP:3RR says "A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert.", which would mean that 'one large edit that contained three reverts' is just one revert, and the subsequent edit is contained within this revert. PeterTheFourth (talk) 01:25, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Roscelese

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Just noting that PeterTheFourth is correct. One edit that reverts 3 edits counts as one revert. As for Roscelese taking things personally...I begin to wonder if she might have a reason for that. This is the 4th AE report Slugger O'Toole has initiated against Roscelese in as many months. . Also it's pretty obvious when looking at the whole picture, when Roscelese reverted her self-revert with the edit summary "as previous edit wasn't a revert..." she was referencing this edit, which as far as I can see is indeed not a revert. ~Awilley (talk) 15:37, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

    Wumbolo

    Wumbolo

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Wumbolo

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NorthBySouthBaranof (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Wumbolo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBAPDS :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 21 July Makes undiscussed revert to Carlos Maza (a page clearly related to Andy Ngo) declaring a nonexistent consensus, when a cursory examination of the talk page shows a clear consensus for the prior version
    2. 21 July Adds claim that the article subject is a hypocrite and supports violence, based upon an article published by the Russian propaganda outlet Russia Today
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 11 July Topic-banned from Andy Ngo and related pages, and warned that further disruption in the American Politics area will likely result in further sanctions.
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Both of these edits are to Carlos Maza, a biography of a person in conflict with Andy Ngo — the edits themselves are objectionable, and they also appear to be a clear-cut violation of Wumbolo's topic ban from Andy Ngo-related pages. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 15:14, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning USERNAME

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by USERNAME

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning USERNAME

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.