Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 21:18, 29 November 2006

Chinese template changes

Hi Yao Ziyuan. I noticed your change to {{zh-ts}} and {{zh-st}} and wanted to point out the {{zh-c}} template. This one is meant for the exact case you're attempting to cover with the conditional logic you added to the two templates. I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I think it would be better to encourage the use of {{zh-c}} when the traditional and simplified characters are the same and keep the complex ParserFunctions code out of the other templates. Let me know what your think. Mike Dillon 05:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Many editors use {{zh-c}} give either traditional or simplified form, but this does not mean the traditional and simplified forms are the same. So it would be better have {{zh-ts}} and {{zh-st}} do this comparison automatically. And, for some characters, the traditional and simplified form look similar, not very easy for a human to recognize whether they are the same or not, so these two template would help in this case. Yao Ziyuan 13:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't quite see your point. If someone is using {{zh-c}}, then they either don't know the difference between traditional and simplified, or they think they are the same. These changes will not stop them from using {{zh-c}} in error. Your changes will only help the case where someone thinks the two are different and they are really the same, which seems to be a very small fraction of what you're trying to correct. If they don't know which one is traditional and which is simplified, they won't be able to use either {{zh-ts}} or {{zh-st}}, since they don't know which is "t" and which is "s".

Since you seem to think these changes make sense, I think we should at least make the text the same as for {{zh-c}} instead of "Both traditional and simplified". I've gone ahead and made this change to help the case when someone can't tell that "t" and "s" are indeed the same. Mike Dillon 03:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you that this doesn't help if someone use {{zh-c}} and don't know the difference between traditional and simplified. But it helps for those articles use {{zh-ts}} or {{zh-st}}. Many articles use these two templates but actually have traditional and simplified the same, So your opinion is to change "Both trad. and Simp." thing to "Chinese:". This is the first question. Second, why I use "both..." instead of only "Chinese:", in my own practice, I have some difficulty sometimes, to recognize if trad and simp the same or not, since for some (not rare) characters, trad and simp are looks very similar, it takes me some time to recognize if they are the same. So my modification to these templates would help in this case. Yao Ziyuan 03:26, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

In that case, perhaps {{zh-c}} should also say "Both...". However, since I personally don't know any Chinese at all, perhaps these issues should be discussed at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject China where there are people who have more background in this area. I mainly started watching these templates because another use asked me to fix a formatting problem that had been introduced by a misplaced <noinclude>. Mike Dillon 03:33, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think we should keep away from {{zh-c}}, and use {{zh-ts}} and {{zh-st}} instead. Yao Ziyuan 03:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: I agree with the above. Keep the complex code out of the templates. Those who input the templates into articles generally can figure out whether there are different simplified or traditional forms; in fact Wiktionary makes it quite easy. Badagnani 03:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I am among those who input the templates, but I feel annoying to figure out where they are different, so I added "#ifeq" to have Misplaced Pages figure them out automatically. OK, the current configuration is a good enough compromise. And the discussion could be settled here. Yao Ziyuan 03:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment: I was under the impression you were a fluent Chinese reader, so assumed you knew the various character forms. I suppose not everyone learns the other forms, though my friends at university in Beijing tells me that they know the traditional forms though they don't learn them in school. If you have an overriding need to keep the code in the template, please make your case but I am just worried the code may be too complex for future editors to figure out. Badagnani 03:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

What "code" you mean? The content of the template, or the use of the template? Yao Ziyuan 03:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I was referring to the code inside the template itself, as I think the other editor above was objecting to the use of complex "parser" code. I am having an impossible time figuring out the hanzi templates at Wiktionary and would prefer to keep the templates' code as simple as possible. Badagnani 03:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

You might not see many other more complex template. For example, this ones Template:JD, Template:Chinese calendar I created earlier are far more complex. Normal editors do not have to know how a template works, but only need to know how to use them. Well document it, and it is usable. Yao Ziyuan 04:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Surname categories

Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I've proposed that the surname categories you created be deleted, on the grounds that categorization by surname is not useful on WP. I'm sure you disagree with this, so please join the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion#Family name categories. Cheers, -- Visviva 11:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Article for deletion discussion notice

An article that you have been involved in editing, Lǐ (李) (surname), has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lǐ (李) (surname). Please look there to see why this is, if you are interested in whether it should be deleted. Thank you. --Kimchi.sg 15:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Your edits to the article Lǐ (李) (surname)

• I do not think that now is the time to be bold. I know you feel passionately about the issue, but please do not force the matter by starting edit wars. The issue is currently being debated at AfD. I am not convinced it is wise to continue to make unilateral changes of a structural nature in the subject page until the matter has been decided. As the outcome is not a foregone conclusion, and the debate may continue for a while, I have therefore reverted your edits for now. Ohconfucius 02:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Beijing

You're from Beijing? That's great! I'm so glad that Chinese Wikipedians are able to edit and read Misplaced Pages now. Thanks for all your contributions. Badagnani 19:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I am always here for 2.5 years. The direct connection to Misplaced Pages is not stable, the Firewall sometimes suddenly cuts the TCP connection to the site some minutes without any reason. And the secured proxies are slow. Thanks to my computer networking skills, I combined /etc/hosts, proxy.pac, Tor, and other technologies to bypass the Firewall effectively. The JS/CSS sometimes can't be loaded (the Firewall returns fake 404 error, don't know why, but must be worked around). The DNS server used to return fake IP to Chinese Misplaced Pages. And many other odd things... Yao Ziyuan 01:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I thought you were just now starting to edit in recent weeks. Do you listen to Chinese rock? Last year I was in Beijing and saw the band Happy Avenue, and wrote this article about them. Badagnani 01:29, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't listen to rocks. Yao Ziyuan 01:51, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry if I offended you with the "pompous" comment. Mike Dillon 19:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

That's all right. Yao Ziyuan 20:04, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Hurrah for Jinyong

Thanks for adding Jinyong to the List of fictional books -- we've been wanting to expand the list to include more nationalities and since we had no Japanese authors this is a great addition. Thanks too for including English translations for two of the titles, that's very helpful. If you have a chance, could you do English translations for the other titles as well? --Bookgrrl 04:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Oops -- Chinese. Sorry about that, thanks for the correction. --Bookgrrl 13:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

維基百科

Sorry if I annoy you with my references to 維基百科, but your recent outburst was a little bit out of character. If you want other editors to take you seriously, you have to respond to their arguments in a civil way and not just dismiss their remarks as irrelevant or tell them to shut up. It would also help your own cause if you quoted relevant Misplaced Pages policies in support of your position, rather than arguing that a special case be made for China related edits. Just some advice, for what it's worth.--Niohe 03:43, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice. Yao Ziyuan 03:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Strange edit

Hello! Today, you've made a few changes to Template:Year in other calendars and after that, it doesn't work in the year articles anymore. Could you please look into it and fix or, if you can't revert your changes? /Ludde23 13:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Could you please show me an example? I've checked article 2006 and no problems found. Yao Ziyuan 13:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at 476 for instance. It seems it works on the year articles from 1001 and forward, but there is something wrong on every year from 1 to 1000. Could you please check it? /Ludde23 18:21, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem has been solved. Yao Ziyuan 18:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Not a Bot

A web browser helper for the creation of Chinese calendar templates, source code at http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Yao_Ziyuan?oldid=90902633 Yao Ziyuan 14:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Andy Rooney hates you!

File:Andyrooneycool.JPG --BricksFromEurope 21:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)