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Talk:Qur'an#Criticism of the Qur'an

salam alaikum

I need your help to complete this part and achieve consensus in this debate. Of course I write something on the basis of Shi'a viewpoint and it may different with Sunni one in some cases. So please participate in this debate.--Sa.vakilian 03:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting Article

Itaqallah, have a look at this . It is written by another scholar of Islam who respects(and even loves) Muhammad so much (like Watt) but explains why these Islamic scholars don't convert to Islam. --Aminz 10:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Please don't vandalize

I recognize you are probably doing so in good faith, but please do not restore POV vandalism at Little Green Footballs again. We have enough problems keeping the article neutral as it is.RunedChozo 22:18, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

could you please explain to me what "POV vandalism" is? thank you.ITAQALLAH 22:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

POV Vandalism is the deliberate insertion of commentary or writings into articles that are in violation of the official Misplaced Pages:Neutral_point_of_view policy. But since you are using Popups, you likely already know this, and you reverted the material anyways. I am stretching to assume good faith on your part and for now am doing so.

If necessary, I will file a Request For Comment in reference to these additions, but I hope that it need not come to that.RunedChozo 22:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I also offer a helpful suggestion that you change your username. It has been noted in the past that usernames containing "Allah" are offensive to many.

NPOV violations are not vandalism. i am glad you like my username. ITAQALLAH 22:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Let me rephrase what I said earlier: I do NOT like your username, and as friendly as possible, I would like to encourage you to change it. The names of pagan deities as a portion of usernames are offensive to me. RunedChozo 15:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

nah. but thanks for the offer. ITAQALLAH 16:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Criticism of the Quran

Do not remove Syed Kamran Mirza's name. You have no justification for doing so. Criticism of Islam is largely internet based and as such he is notable, trying using a search engine. Do not remove the refence to hadith. The wording is a matter of debate but the link itself must stay. I used pickthall's because you asked for "resting-place." Arrow740 22:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

there is justification which you are deliberately ignoring: Mr. Mirza is not notable. you are inserting original research: claims must be attributed to the critics, not the evidence they use. pickthall does not say resting place: you replaced the Y Ali translation to make it seem as if the argument was not a straw man. attribute the argument to the one who makes it. thank you. ITAQALLAH 22:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

your attempted revert-baiting through repetition of the same faulty argument (despite it being established that SKM is not a citable critic, and that you are inserting original research) is not an indication of any intention of collegial editing on your part, sadly. ITAQALLAH 22:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You have not shown that SKM is not notable. As far as criticism of Islam goes, he is. I didn't insert any original research. It is SKM (among others) who wrote that the sun has a resting place, and I no doubt used the correct phrase "critics claim." In any case the hadith makes it clear that there is such a place.

So now you've made the shift to "not citable." Well he is citable. The fact that your religion forces critics to use the internet as their medium does not mean that you can censor such criticism because it is only (as far as I know right now) to be found on the internet. Again I'll ask you not to remove the reference to the hadith. You have no justification for doing so as I am not the one making the connection (as the links make clear). If you wish to respond please use my talk page. Arrow740 05:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

i'll reply here for the sake of continuity. SKM is non-notable, per the ongoing afd where community consensus seems rather obvious. you are touting a virtually unknown individual, with seemingly no qualifications or expertise, who is non-notable as the ghits show, as someone who is an authority on wikipedia. your attempted straw man that i am shifting my position has no bearing on the fact that he is non-notable, which is something i have been consistent in maintaining. ITAQALLAH 15:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

One encounters his writings quickly and often when one goes in search of criticism of Islam. For that reason alone he is notable. It is not a straw man because notable and citable are not necessarily the same when it comes to this article, as you know. I don't believe he deserves a wikipedia article, but as Sefringle pointed out on the talk page for the article (which you should check out), that doesn't mean he can't be quoted in other articles. Arrow740 22:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Syed and Mirza

This is an interesting debate. I am amused. Syed family is descendant of Imam Hussain, hence of Arab blood lines. Mirza family is descendant of Mongols who later became muslims. Obviously this person is a fake. He could not even come up with a logical fake name. LOL. Maybe he should have named himself Mirza Cohen, Pundit Singh, or something like that. LOL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hassanfarooqi (talk • contribs)

.. and an amusing pseudonym it is indeed. ITAQALLAH 13:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

New article you may want to edit

Hello Itaqallah, I've started a new article about Saudi Arabia's first feature film: Keif al-hal?. I invite you to contribute to it if such an article might interest you. Thanks. :-) (→Netscott) 02:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Did the prophet order to chop 400 trees in the battle of Khyber: Talk:Muhammad#Kindness_to_the_Children_and_the_Happy_Animoos. TruthSpreader 03:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Question

Greetings Itaqallah, could you take a look at User:JustAnIdea's edits for similarities with User:Nodekeeper and User:Proabivouac? Thanks. (→Netscott) 15:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You helped choose Islam as this week's WP:AID winner

Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive. This week Islam was selected to be improved to featured article status. Hope you can help.

Hm

You seem frazzled. Why don't you take a short wikibreak? It might help you become more centered. Arrow740 00:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

They don't give you two weeks paid vacation a year? Arrow740 01:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Well if the So'audiyoon were to hire someone he would act like you. Arrow740 03:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. I feel refreshed. You guys probably missed me, though. Arrow740 10:09, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Prose

Salaam! Can you please re-write this in prose, as requested on talk page? Talk:Islam#Customs_and_behavioral_laws. TruthSpreader 01:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Itaqallah, my world view has changed. Now, I don't get angry at big lies as much as I used to. I'll probably post something on my user page. I feel comforted now. --Aminz 04:01, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Itaqallah,

What do you think of requesting a mediation on Criticism of the Quran? --Aminz 08:19, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

If you'd like to help end the edit warring you can respond to these proposed guidelines . Arrow740 10:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopedia of Islam Online is now available :) --Aminz 03:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Need some assistance regarding Ottoman Muslim Casulties.

I saw your name under the Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ottoman Muslim casualties. I was wondering if Ottoman Muslim casualties article can be an improvement drive article for the Islam or other related projects, or find people from different countries to feed information. I would like to integrate what happened during this period. Western (Christan) sources are really weak on this issue. And there is a big bias against it. Thanks. OttomanReference 15:57, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

User:DAde heading for a community ban

Hello Itaqallah, my advice is to formulate documentation demonstrating this user's pattern of behavior. Essentially this user is being repetitively disruptive and is beginning to "exhaust the community's patience" which is bannable. If this user's chronic disruption can be clearly demonstrated there will be stronger support for a ban on his editing on Misplaced Pages. (→Netscott) 20:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you do that for me please. I am not familiar with user:Dade. Cheers, --Aminz 18:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Itaqallah, you might want to endorse this call for a "community patience" ban if you agree with it. (→Netscott) 21:24, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Abusing the popups

Youre not supposed to use popups for reverting except for vandalism. Youre doing this for a long time now.Opiner 20:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

could you please explain what you are alluding to? ITAQALLAH 20:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Sealed

Your tone has changed but the edge remains. You are essentially correct about my manner of referring to the material in question. I and other people who approached Islam with an open mind and heart (in my case considering it for myself) are dumbfounded that people could follow a man who committed the atrocities Muhammad did, let alone believe that he was in direct communication with and had a mandate from the source of morality itself, God. I keep emphasizing the scientific contradictions because the internal contradictions can often be rationalized (though it is very hard to do so and maintain the belief that the Quran is perfect, doublethink is clearly not an exclusively Muslim phenomenon), and the moral and ethical problems can also be sublimated as personal morality is highly malleable, but when it comes to saying that semen comes out of the lower back, and mountains prevent earthquakes, there's not much you can do. If you care to know why a person with no religion spends so much effort doing the things I do, then I will tell you, but I assume you won't ask, and will delete this, though I would prefer it if you didn't. Arrow740 14:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll assume you believe what you're saying. If the external contradictions are easily explicable, could you explicate them for me, or tell me where I can read such an explication? Arrow740 23:15, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

All four "explications" of the semen from the lower back verse are utter nonsense. Only someone with an overriding desire to acknowledge no flaws in the Quran would be comforted by them. You would admit that, I hope. In any case if this is the kind of stuff you think about there is little point in a further exchange of ideas between us. Arrow740 06:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

CltFn

Salam Itaqallah. Since you have dealt with user CltFn in the past, I would appreciate your comment here. Thank you. BhaiSaab 20:05, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Indian caste system Mediation

Please take a look at Talk:Indian caste system/Mediation (December 2006) and begin populating the "issues to be mediated" regarding the Indian caste system article. Also, please sign below Parties' agreement to mediate stating that you "agree" to mediate or "recuse" yourself from the dispute resolution process. Thanks in advance. -- tariqabjotu 22:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

3RR at Muhammad as a diplomat

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages under the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. Arrow740 03:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I think you're a little confused here. I replaced "the" with "his" to make it clear whose objectives they were, that's it. Arrow740 03:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking of it as "his (objectives of prophethood)." Arrow740 03:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I had to try something. You were puppeting a lot of meat. In any case your command of English idioms is quite good for someone who grew up in Pakistan. Arrow740 05:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

FYI

Image talk:Qana massacre.jpg --Striver 04:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)