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Biography: Royalty and Nobility C‑class

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Ancient Near East C‑class

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Judaism C‑class Mid‑importance

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Seleucids and the rebels

I'd like to know why it is stated in the section about the civil war, that "the rebels unbelievably asked for Seleucid assistance"? I think it needs substantiation. --Xact (talk) 18:33, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Numismatics

The coin shown here in this article is correctly stated as a coin minted under Alexander Jannaeus. However, Jannaeus minted two types of these coins, a smaller coin called a "lepton" and a larger coin called a "prutah". The larger prutah was much more attractive of a coin and thus ideal for an article such as this. The smaller lepton was crudely made and of a smaller value. Both coins had the anchor image on one side and star on the reverse. The prutah had writing around the anchor and the lepton just had a solid circle around the anchor. The IMPORTANCE in knowing this difference is that the Bible passage about the widow's mite coin specifically says "lepton" in the original GREEK, which makes sense thus emphasizing the poverty of the poor widow who gave all she had. Pictures of the different coins can be found at http://biblicalmites.com.

Caesarea's founding date

Caesarea Maritima was founded by Herod Antipas in the late 1st century BC, so how could it possibly be a conquest before this date, unless it is referring to Stratonospyrgos (Straton's Tower)? Either way, something is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.89.64.176 (talk) 20:50, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

6,000 people killed in the Temple courtyard?

Where does this number come from? Josephus?
Whoever counted the 6,000 dead? Even today police and military would be unable to evaluate such a high number of people. This number sounds very fanciful, as most numbers in Josephus. This should be mentioned. And this mass of people killed in the Temple courtyard? There are measurements of the Temple available. Could the courtyard contain such a crowd?
And where were the soldiers to kill so many people? With swords and spears? The whole account is fanciful. Killing 10 people is a big job, killing 100 a gigantic job, and killing 1,000 simply improbable. Josephus, writing in Rome, simply invents his figures. He had no military reports of numbers. He left for Rome with some personal documents and no archives. How on earth could he evaluate such numbers? They are simple feelings, to express a magnitude, not a report of objective quantities. --ROO BOOKAROO (talk) 22:26, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

800 Crucified?

Another legendary number cited by everybody.
Who counted them? That's a lot of crosses to assemble and set up, and a lot of soldiers to erect the crosses and set up the victims on their crosses?
Again, Josephus is writing in his comfortable rooms in Rome, and inventing whatever figures he wishes to employ to illustrate the magnitude of the repression. There was nobody around ever able to dispute his numbers.
These crucifixions are sometimes mentioned as being the inspiration for Paul's Jesus having been crucified. --ROO BOOKAROO (talk) 22:50, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Era-style change

A discussion to change the era-style of the article is ongoing at WikiProject_Judaism#Requesting_consensus_to_change_era-style. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 15:58, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Final campaigns and death

@Arminden: Which source states that Hippos was in Gaulana or Galaadits. You also changed in the section concerning Aretas III defeating Alexander from Aretas “had” defeated to “managed” as if Aretas struggled to defeat him, but I don’t recall any signs of struggle in the source. You added in brackets with a question mark “(Tell el-‘Ash’ari?)” next to Dium. If your source is uncertain of the location then it shouldn’t be added at all. It only creates unnecessary confusion. Jerm (talk) 01:18, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

@Jerm: Gaulana is a city. With Galaadits you probably mean Galaaditis, which is a region. Hippos was not in Galaaditis (Gilead). Hippos/Susita is in the Golan Heights, which during the Hellenistic period, more exactly under Seleucid rule, became known in Greek as Gaulanitis. The Decapolis was only established after Pompey's conquest in 63 BCE, so in 83-80 Hippos was still part of the Gaulanitis. If you want a source just for that, here it is (), but it is hardly needed - proving the obvious is absurd and leads to overburdening the articles.

Schäfer p75: "Aretas, king of the Nabateans, ... and who initially managed to defeat Alexander." So if anything, I'm guilty of repeating Schäfer's word "managed".

Dium (Tell el-'Ash'ari?): with the most rare exception of sites where they find inscriptions that contain the name of the city or of identifyable rulers (see Gezer, Ekron), hardly any identification of a tell with an ancient city is certain, even when the name is more or less preserved over centuries - because cities migrate, sometimes by several kilometres, along with their old names. So most identifications are contested, especially when they have been made only based on geographical location and maybe surveys (but many excavations don't help either, see et-Tell, which probably is neither Geshur, nor Bethsaida, after all). So writing "Dium (Tell el-'Ash'ari?)" with an according scientific source is more than legitimate. It is actually the norm. BUT, if you prefer, the 2001 Archaeological Encyclopedia of the Holy Land states that "The identification of Dium is still disputed, though most scholars place it at Tell Ashari, 9 miles northwest of Edrei." Voila. Same thing in other words. I see on p 136 it reads under Decapolis "Dium (uncertain, but possibly Tell Ashari)". The first apostrophe in Tell el-'Ash'ari was a mistake, the second apparently not a must. ()

OK now? Cheers and good night, Arminden (talk) 02:45, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

@Arminden: Concerning Gaulana, I read over the original source before you altered the section. After reading over it a few times, I can say it's a city. I guess when I added the section, I perceived the wording differently to more of a region rather than a city. And Aretas, the original source does state "managed". I didn't know he had used that term. The argument you presented for Dium is interesting. I checked to see if there was a Wiki article for Dium, and I found it as Dium (Coele-Syria). I think the argument for Dium being Tell el-"Ash'ari should be elaborated at Dium (Coele-Syria). The idea of adding Tel el-"Ash'ari next to Dium in brackets isn't really helpful since most people don't what that is or where. Jerm (talk) 19:34, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

@Arminden: I was just viewing the sources or trying concerning Dium. Emil's source doesn't mention Tell el-"Ash'ari and Negev's is not even accessible. Do you have another stating Dium is possibly being Tell el-'Ash'ari? Jerm (talk) 20:56, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Found it in Emil's source as footnote 334. The footnote states E.Schwartz started looking for Dium at Tell el-Ashari, but Emil suggests the stone with inscriptions might have just been displaced. Such information needs to be elaborated at Dium (Coele-Syria), not putting a location in brackets with a question mark. I am going to remove it because it is completely unhelpful. Jerm (talk) 19:49, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Time to stop reverting and start forming a consensus! I don't know much about this subject, but I have one little comment: it is anachronistic to use the title "Rabbi" for a period a couple of centuries before its earliest known use. Zero 08:17, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

1. Richardson, Peter (1996). Herod: King of the Jews and Friend of the Romans. Studies on personalities of the New Testament (illustrated ed.). University of South Carolina Press. p. 140. ISBN 9781570031366. Retrieved 13 December 2019.
2. Negev, Avraham; Gibson, Shimon (2001). Dium; Dion. New York and London: Continuum. p. 142. ISBN 0-8264-1316-1. {{cite book}}: |work= ignored (help)

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