Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 00:21, 12 April 2020

John from Idegon is suffering from physical health issues. This may affect their ability to work on Misplaced Pages. Consequently, they may not be able to respond to talk-page messages or e-mails in a timely manner. Your patience is greatly appreciated.

Please sign your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end. Thanks! Unless otherwise requested, I will respond on this page. Please include links to pertinent page(s). If you came here to complain about my removal of your unsourced edit, don't waste either of our time. Just provide sources for your edits. Click New section to start a new topic. Unsigned and/or misplaced comments may be removed unread.

My talk page may be protected from editing by non-confirmed editors from time to time. If that's the case and you cannot post here, please leave me a message here. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk)

Beware! This user's talk page is monitored by talk page watchers. Some of them even talk back.

Undone edit on Kimono

Could you please explain to me what part of the section I re-added to the Kimono article was unsourced or in some way in violation of WP:BLP? The only thing you referenced in the undo was the entirety of the manual of style - not exactly specific feedback that I can use to improve the article. Please assist me by giving feedback on exactly what you found at issue with in the section you removed. Thank you --Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) 21:08, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Sorry for the slow reply. I've noted above my health issues, and it's been a bad week. Here's the thing: the article in question (at least at one time) was considered one of the better articles on Misplaced Pages. Unquestionably it's an important subject. Cultural appropriation isn't. Cultural appropriation by someone whose only fame is being famous definitely isn't a good way to introduce an ultramodern contemporary concept into an article on an ancient subject. I have no idea what part of the world you are from or your age, but from your edits it's easy to maybe conclude that you are from the US and under 40. Cultural appropriation of the kimono happened in the US long before the age of celebrity. Every Pacific Theater WWII vet brought home kimonos and Japanese art as spoils of war. Pretty sure the same could be said for Canadians, Australians, Russians and Brits that served in that area too. That's how culture spread prior to the electronic revolution. If you are the editor that wrote that section, you're missing the point of WP:NPOV. As one entry in a list of items in a "In popular culture" section, a very truncated version of this section might be appropriate. The question is: Is an "In popular culture" section appropriate? That will require a consensus, one I would oppose. If this was a serious attempt to introduce the concept of "Cultural appropriation" into the article, it fails NPOV completely. Ironically, the best way IMO to describe this introduction of cultural appropriation into this article is cultural appropriation. What would you call the discussion of a modern meaningless celebrity in an article about an ancient cultural tradition? John from Idegon (talk) 18:10, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi - I'm not the author who included that section.

The Kimono article is a mess, has been for a long time, and honestly, I'm just trying to fix it up bit by bit whenever I can.

To be honest, most of the articles surrounding traditional Japanese arts and culture are a mess, and need a careful hand, a lot of good citations, and some not too little time to reshape into good quality.

There are many articles that fall into NPOV territory, might have either too few or literally no citations, or need to be retitled and reshaped. This can't be rushed. The detail necessary is too fine, and so are the distinctions - I spent a while rewriting Mizuage recently as an example of this, and it's not even a long article. It's a very wide-ranging topic, and there's always, always more work to be done.

I would've appreciated if you'd gone back to see I didn't add that in the first place - some stuff is just shit, but has to stay shit for a while whilst I fix up other sections first. As it stands, I didn't add it, so I have to find some of your points a bit moot.

As for cultural appropriation, I think it could probably be better renamed as 'Impact of kimono in Western culture', as this is something that has got a very long history. You can draw a clear line from things like the trends of Japonisme in the 19th century, to the impact of American GIs in post-WW2 Japan, all the way to things like the story about Kim Kardashian. I can't really put value on the concept of Kim Kardashian as a person - she certainly means something to someone, somewhere, and at the very least, meets notability criteria for Misplaced Pages, even if some might disagree.

I'd also say that the terms "ancient cultural tradition" are definitely more woolly than this sheep at times, as it was just the clothes people wore, and still is. Check out The Social Life of Kimono by Sheila Cliffe for contrary to the belief that the kimono is nothing but ceremonial, as an aside - it's still worn as fashion and everyday clothes, so I don't see the inclusion of Kim Kardashian as irrelevant to the article whatsoever. The section in question needs fleshing ot, but I dont agree with section blanking as a way to achieve this. Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) 17:02, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Corrections to articles

So, for my updates to both State Prison of Southern Michigan and Jackson MI I should have just deleted the paragraphs or added in my updates at the end of each paragraph? My thought process was to leave something that informs Misplaced Pages viewer if they were looking for information about Cell Block 7. Thanks, John.3415TTG (talk) 17:35, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

3415TTG, our messages crossed. Ive already replied on your talk, prior to your question here. Generally, you should respond to messages where you got them. You can use either Template:u or Template:tb to notify the other editor, but it's not necessary to notify experienced editors of a reply. Generally experienced editors will "watch" (via their Watchlist) any talk page they edit for a reply. If you have any further questions, please reply at your talk. Thanks. (Misplaced Pages is fun and educational, but not really intuitive). John from Idegon (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Derry NH edit

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This content shouldn't have been deleted, and references a town park, "the splash pad", including a link to the town ".org" webpage regarding the place of interest. Andywho56 (talk) 03:28, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

{(talk page stalker)See your talk page, the edit summary on the article, and the article's talk page. Meters (talk) 03:32, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Andywho56, Talking about this on John's talk page probably isn't the best of outlets, as pointed out in his edit summary, a discussion about the addition of that link is already taking place onthe subject's talk page. You should consider continuing your discussion there, particularly since the issue has drawn the attention of multiple parties. Cheers Sulfurboy (talk) 03:35, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Apologies, I'm still getting used to how wikipedia communications are structured as this is the first (and probably last after this experience) time I've added content. Andywho56 (talk) 03:45, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Pocahontas County, WV, revert

Hello. You reverted my recent edit on Pocahontas County, WV. This is not a matter for consensus, as the references I provided in the edit are the actual history of the county, it is not an opinion. Pocahontas never voted to be in the new state, Pocahontas voted in favor of secession from the United States on May 24, 1861. It was one of 8 counties of WV who never voted to leave Virginia in any way. I will revert your revert unless you can state some good reason that referenced material can be reverted willy nilly. Dubyavee (talk) 00:19, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

You are introducing an entirely new concept into the article. Requesting discussion on a new point that diametrically opposes the concept it replaced is certainly not controversial. Show me where your claim that I have no right to revert you is ensconsed in policy. You can't, because it isn't. Surely you are not claiming that verifiability somehow guarantees inclusion? It doesn't. Article content disputes are settler via consensus, not rules per se. The WP:ONUS is on you to gsin consensus. Please take it to the article talk page. John from Idegon (talk) 02:52, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Hyde alumni revisions

Hello, John from Idegon! I see you reverted my cited inclusion of Elijah Blue Allman on the list of Hyde School (Maine) alumni. His inclusion had two citations -- one from the school headmaster saying he's an alumnus, and another interview with Allman himself in which he and Renn Hawkey confirmed their attendance.

It also looks like you removed the source for Robert King (photojournalist)'s inclusion. This was again from an official school publication, and the source material was an interview with King in which he spoke about his attendance. When both the student and the school confirm someone attended, that seems pretty definitive to me.

I'm not sure what other type of sources you'd prefer, but I really don't see any reason to remove these names or sources. Please help me understand. Thanks in advance for your response. Beginning (talk) 17:12, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Sorry you don't understand what an encyclopedia article is. Not my problem. Your changes fail a core policy. There are numerous help assistance available. If you have policy based reasons to dispute my change, bring it up on the article talk page. Nothing whatsoever you've mentioned here is in any way relative to the question at hand. John from Idegon (talk) 17:44, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Please add my tendentious editing to the ANI discussion

I'd be glad to see a WP:BOOMERANG Do you know what you're edit warring over or are you just reacting? I took it to the talk page to explain. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:11, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Explain all you want, you still need a fucking consensus. Until you change your attitude, I'll not be replying to you any further. Status of your edit has not changed. I will not waste my time discussing with you whether that's necessary or not. The fact that you think you have a FUCKING RIGHT to change things is the entire problem. I'll not discuss the ground rules with you. You agreed to follow them when you registered an account and with every single edit you ever made. John from Idegon (talk) 00:21, 12 April 2020 (UTC)