| Revision as of 00:05, 9 August 2020 editKtrimi991 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users12,596 edits →Use of summary interpretation: Cmt.← Previous edit | Revision as of 00:08, 9 August 2020 edit undoKhirurg (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers31,710 edits →Use of summary interpretationNext edit → | ||
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| ::::::Also, Khirurg/Dr.K./Sadko you're making the same sort of accusations that you were making a few days ago about another editor in AN3 in the talkpage of the closing admin of that report. At some point, attempts to turn every single thing into an issue over which warnings, sanctions etc are asked must really stop. Sadko, you have already been logged to AE and warned not to turn reports into a tool against other editors. It's ] behaviour and it drains the energy of editors who are actively engaged in content creating if they have to reply to accusations about the most miniscule of things.--] (]) 23:47, 8 August 2020 (UTC) | ::::::Also, Khirurg/Dr.K./Sadko you're making the same sort of accusations that you were making a few days ago about another editor in AN3 in the talkpage of the closing admin of that report. At some point, attempts to turn every single thing into an issue over which warnings, sanctions etc are asked must really stop. Sadko, you have already been logged to AE and warned not to turn reports into a tool against other editors. It's ] behaviour and it drains the energy of editors who are actively engaged in content creating if they have to reply to accusations about the most miniscule of things.--] (]) 23:47, 8 August 2020 (UTC) | ||
| :::::::That decision/opinion was not shared by all admins and editors. Do not spin. You can start with saying "sorry" rather than lawyering up. ''']''' ] 23:53, 8 August 2020 (UTC) | :::::::That decision/opinion was not shared by all admins and editors. Do not spin. You can start with saying "sorry" rather than lawyering up. ''']''' ] 23:53, 8 August 2020 (UTC) | ||
| ::::::::@Maleschreiber: What really needs to stop is your nasty habit of mocking users in edit summaries and on talkpages. ''That'' is what is ]. And if you find defending yourself "draining", then don't engage in this behavior. I was content to let the matter rest, but you came running here to get vindicated. Because it's not enough to let the matter rest, you have to ''win'', don't you? ] (]) 00:07, 9 August 2020 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Comment''' The process of editing Balkan topics has become virtually pointless and unproductive, as most of the time is spent on talk page conflicts. There is an ogoing effort to accuse other editors of real of unreal issues. For that matter, Dr.K., Khirurg and Sadko too have recently been accused by other editors of inappropriate comments etc. It has become a cycle of accusations and opposition, and all of this involves a very large number of editors. I am staying away from editing controversial articles of the Balkans for some time as the area has become so tense and toxic that even responding to another editor might be a total loss of time and energy. I am focused on writing new articles these days and I am preparing some, and I suggest that other editors too do that. An editor is supposed to write and maintain content, not to spend so much time with clarifications, disputes and accusations. It is pointless. ] (]) 00:05, 9 August 2020 (UTC) | *'''Comment''' The process of editing Balkan topics has become virtually pointless and unproductive, as most of the time is spent on talk page conflicts. There is an ogoing effort to accuse other editors of real of unreal issues. For that matter, Dr.K., Khirurg and Sadko too have recently been accused by other editors of inappropriate comments etc. It has become a cycle of accusations and opposition, and all of this involves a very large number of editors. I am staying away from editing controversial articles of the Balkans for some time as the area has become so tense and toxic that even responding to another editor might be a total loss of time and energy. I am focused on writing new articles these days and I am preparing some, and I suggest that other editors too do that. An editor is supposed to write and maintain content, not to spend so much time with clarifications, disputes and accusations. It is pointless. ] (]) 00:05, 9 August 2020 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 00:08, 9 August 2020
Submitting an appeal to my Topic Ban in the ARBPIA area
This notice comes to inform you that I have submitted an appeal to my Topic ban in the ARBPIA area, which you can see here. Be well.Davidbena (talk) 01:10, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
Liverpool
Afternoon Ed, I previously reported a user for edit warring with no action taken. They are still attempting to make the same unsupported changes while also leaving misleading edit summaries about prior discussions. The outcomes of the last discussion clearly supported existing language to which they barely contributed and he has been asked, along with another user, to support their claim with sourced information. I feel like this is such a silly thing, but it is utterly disruptive editing even if it is in good faith, and I don't want to get into an edit war over this crap again. What is the best solution? A full RFC? Do we leave the incorrect data up in the interim or is it okay to revert for the purpose of an RFC? Koncorde (talk) 21:44, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- The previous AN3 (never closed) was at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive400#User:Correctus2kX reported by User:Koncorde (Result: ). Looking over the current dispute, I don't think anything can be done without a new talk thread at Talk:Liverpool. The previous thread at Talk:Liverpool/Archive 5#Liverpool vs "Liverpool Authority" area, from December 2019, is worthy of reference but I'm unsure whether it reached any conclusion. Do you think it did? Consider making a specific proposal on Talk and try to get opinions. Not necessarily a full RfC unless you want to create one. EdJohnston (talk) 22:06, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- Two experienced users outlined our agreement with the reliable sources. We have asked for reliable sources to support their assertion because if they can demonstrate why they are right nobody is going to dispute it. However they don't take part / or ignore talk page and have provided no sources to support their edits. Koncorde (talk) 22:21, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- You don't need to convince *me* that you're right, you need to convince the other editors on the talk page. That usually requires some kind of a !vote. WP:DR lists some further options for attracting more people. Also, in the Liverpool case, it seems there could be a need for some wordsmithing to tell the reader what was in the various statistical areas that could be regarded as Liverpool. From a quick look, I couldn't tell what the actual dispute was about. If you need outsiders to weigh in and reach a verdict you need to explain it to them somehow. If you are one of the people who has a stake in the outcome, it could be worth your time to create a well-explained talk thread to state the issues. EdJohnston (talk) 00:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- Dispute is the attempt to differentiate between Liverpool the "city" and the "borough", which are one and the same thing by any measure of the ONS. There has been disruptive editing over the last 5 years with various people trying to gerrymander the numbers to suit their POV for any number of criteria. Whenever it gets back on an even keel, someone returns to restart the issue. Koncorde (talk) 02:12, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- Are you saying that no further discussion is needed? EdJohnston (talk) 02:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- I'm saying it's disruptive editing and always has been. They first tried to parse the "local authority" population as being something different to the "metropolitan borough" as something different to the "City". Except there is no measure of the city that is distinguishable from the borough (hence why it is called a "city and borough", and not a city in a borough, or the county seat or similar). If they wanted to say in the intro "the population of the city and borough was 498,000" then that would be correct. Stating only the "borough" has that population suggests that the City is either smaller, or larger. We have asked repeatedly for a source for that suggestion, as the only sources provided are official UK Government sources (Office for National Statistics, and the NOMIS) per List of English districts by population which is updated in the infobox "City" field by an automated script. This is why I am asking you for suggestions, because this edit summary "please desist from making these repeated edits - see talk page for prior discussion on this" does not reflect what was discussed and you previously attempted to get them to engage in some fashion. Koncorde (talk) 03:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- I have pinged you on a discussion over at the talk page. I have tried to include those that have contributed on the talk page at length or are involved in the reversion process. Koncorde (talk) 09:48, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- I'm saying it's disruptive editing and always has been. They first tried to parse the "local authority" population as being something different to the "metropolitan borough" as something different to the "City". Except there is no measure of the city that is distinguishable from the borough (hence why it is called a "city and borough", and not a city in a borough, or the county seat or similar). If they wanted to say in the intro "the population of the city and borough was 498,000" then that would be correct. Stating only the "borough" has that population suggests that the City is either smaller, or larger. We have asked repeatedly for a source for that suggestion, as the only sources provided are official UK Government sources (Office for National Statistics, and the NOMIS) per List of English districts by population which is updated in the infobox "City" field by an automated script. This is why I am asking you for suggestions, because this edit summary "please desist from making these repeated edits - see talk page for prior discussion on this" does not reflect what was discussed and you previously attempted to get them to engage in some fashion. Koncorde (talk) 03:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- Are you saying that no further discussion is needed? EdJohnston (talk) 02:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- Dispute is the attempt to differentiate between Liverpool the "city" and the "borough", which are one and the same thing by any measure of the ONS. There has been disruptive editing over the last 5 years with various people trying to gerrymander the numbers to suit their POV for any number of criteria. Whenever it gets back on an even keel, someone returns to restart the issue. Koncorde (talk) 02:12, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- You don't need to convince *me* that you're right, you need to convince the other editors on the talk page. That usually requires some kind of a !vote. WP:DR lists some further options for attracting more people. Also, in the Liverpool case, it seems there could be a need for some wordsmithing to tell the reader what was in the various statistical areas that could be regarded as Liverpool. From a quick look, I couldn't tell what the actual dispute was about. If you need outsiders to weigh in and reach a verdict you need to explain it to them somehow. If you are one of the people who has a stake in the outcome, it could be worth your time to create a well-explained talk thread to state the issues. EdJohnston (talk) 00:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- Two experienced users outlined our agreement with the reliable sources. We have asked for reliable sources to support their assertion because if they can demonstrate why they are right nobody is going to dispute it. However they don't take part / or ignore talk page and have provided no sources to support their edits. Koncorde (talk) 22:21, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
- So, we're back where we started. User stops contributing at the talk page when asked to support their changes. Then when reverted per the discussion at the talk page, they return to continue the edit war. Koncorde (talk) 23:27, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Question
- Abinuzvlog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
I was placing some welcome templates on newbies' talk pages, and I noticed that. Is it allowed to write on your Youtube channel that way on Wiki? Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:42, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- You could try tagging their user page with {{db-spam}}. EdJohnston (talk) 00:57, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- OK. I will. Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:59, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
Racist slur
'majoosi' Didn't know where else to take this and how serious this matter is. One could argue that I shouldn't have commented on it in my edit summary, but one could also argue we're living in 2020, and frankly slurs like this deserve to be condemned to show that they have absolutely no place in this day and age. It's basically a very discriminating term used against Iranians and Shia Muslims. EDIT: Looks like said user made a new account Majoosicorrector. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- I take it that majoosis are fire-worshippers. Or possibly, magicians. I have blocked User:Majoosicorrector indefinitely for naming an account with an anti-Iranian ethnic slur, 'majoosi'. EdJohnston (talk) 17:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- It kinda means infidel/inferior in present-day, used specifically against Shia Muslims and Iranians, but mostly the latter. Tbh I would assume that Majoosicorrector is a sock of Cuffthots - they did the same type of edit in the same area at the right same time and both use the slur 'majoosi', can't be a pure coincidence? --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:26, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- I have opened the SPI. Dr. K. 11:53, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- It kinda means infidel/inferior in present-day, used specifically against Shia Muslims and Iranians, but mostly the latter. Tbh I would assume that Majoosicorrector is a sock of Cuffthots - they did the same type of edit in the same area at the right same time and both use the slur 'majoosi', can't be a pure coincidence? --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:26, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
AN3 report derailment into personal attacks
Hi, you seem to be closing most AN3 reports. Sadko, who has been logged in April at AE for misusing a report he launched against Mikola22, now joined a report about Ktrimi991 (after Mikola22 did) and then launched a series of personal accusations about several editors (including Mikola22). He even went so far as to say that Ktrimi991 in RL would instantly get fired for Mobbing
. If someone wrote that in my talkpage, I would even go as far as to ask for it to be deleted as a personal attack, but to make such comments in an admin noticeboard of all places requires admin oversight in that discussion because it has been derailing to a WP:BATTLEGROUND. It's obvious that Sadko knew exactly what he was writing and that it is a personal attack against Ktrimi991 because in that same comment he also said that I expect that some of the mentioned editors will report me because of my comment and explain how I am “the bad one”, no problem with that.
I'll post the same notification on El C's talkpage who is the admin who logged the warning about the Sadko-Mikola22 case at AE.--Maleschreiber (talk) 17:08, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- I've closed the AN3 report with no action, since it appeared to be going downhill fast. It was no longer just an opportunity for opposing groups of editors to vent. EdJohnston (talk) 17:40, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
University of Toronto
Hello, Ed! Please look at Special:Contributions/International_Racialized_Student_in_Canada and the recent edits at List of universities in Canada, which I redid. Per W (talk) 20:04, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
- I've blocked this editor per Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Israeli Rabbi/Archive. It is adding a complaint against the University of Toronto by a person named Gregory Kogan, said to be an Israeli Ph.D. student. The issue is cited only to a legal filing and not to any reliable sources. This edit triggered 1007 set up for 'refspam detection'. EdJohnston (talk) 00:23, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
Judah P. Benjamin
Hi Ed, Thanks for the protection on the Judah P. Benjamin page. The IP has joined talk, accused three of us of socking and is now leaving comments such as “Hope you enjoy having autism”. I’ve removed the comment but he’s put it back in. - SchroCat (talk) 19:09, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- If he doesn't lose interest soon the talk page can be semiprotected. EdJohnston (talk) 19:13, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- I’ll leave it a while before removing the PA again, but I suspect he’ll be back. Is there nothing that can be done about removing that comment? Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 19:15, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- I blocked the /64 for 48 hours. A brief respite, anyway. EdJohnston (talk) 19:17, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- That’s great, thanks. Some kind soul has removed the sentence too. Cheers for your help. - SchroCat (talk) 19:19, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- I blocked the /64 for 48 hours. A brief respite, anyway. EdJohnston (talk) 19:17, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
- I’ll leave it a while before removing the PA again, but I suspect he’ll be back. Is there nothing that can be done about removing that comment? Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 19:15, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
Use of summary interpretation
- Illyrians (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- User talk:Maleschreiber#Don't mock users in edit summaries
Hey, I wanted to ask you about what would be a reasonable interpretation of WP:SUMMARYNO in the context of me writing the following summary: Appian (1st century AD) and Apollodorus are historians who present mythological constructions as many authors of their era do. Their works are not part of the corpus of "Greek mythology" which is a well-defined corpus of material of which Khirurg is probably not aware of in terms of definitions used in classical studies
which I wrote in the context of an edit I made as a synthesis between previously held positions in a miniscule "dispute". Khirurg claims that it was a mocking of him and came to my talkpage User_talk:Maleschreiber#Don't_mock_users_in_edit_summaries to "promise" that he would report me to AE if "did that again". I explained to him that I was definitely not mocking him. Nonetheless, he kept going that I'll have to defend myself in AE if I do it again and that I "shouldn't play dumb" about it. I again explained to him that in general there's no mocking in highlighting things that someone may not be aware of (the exact phrase I used) - when it's done in the context of information sharing. I'm not that fussed about the incident of him "promising" to report me, because as you remember from AN3 this sort of overblown behavior regularly happens the Balkans topic area, but for future reference I wanted to ask someone whose function in[REDACTED] is to interprete policies and guidelines if in the context of WP:SUMMARYNO my summary could be construed as a personal attack. Thanks.--Maleschreiber (talk) 18:30, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- This does not seem to be an issue worth taking to AE. EdJohnston (talk) 21:16, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- Isn't it clearly against the spirit of WP:SUMMARYNO? He is mocking and belittling in an edit summary, which cannot be redacted. He also has a pattern of such behavior . I find these edit summaries inflammatory, passive aggressive, and uncalled for. The Balkans are already tense enough, and this behavior only inflames things, instead of calming things down. It is not hard to come up with such edit summaries, anyone can do it. If everyone did it, the atmosphere in the Balkans would be even worse. At a minimum a warning is due. Khirurg (talk) 22:17, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- What pattern are you referring to? This is *one* summary in which I (someone whose field involves translation and interpretation of defters in his real life) am explaining to another editor what a defter is. As I've done with countless other editors in the Balkans who all believe the same misconception. There's nothing wrong with that and it's not insulting to clarify misconceptions people might believe in. You've filed one seriously overblown report a few days ago, so maybe you should calm down and not venture into yet another round of accusing other editors over literally nothing in this case.--Maleschreiber (talk) 22:47, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- I wasn't addressing myself to you. I am interested in what Ed thinks, not you. Why so defensive btw? Khirurg (talk) 23:22, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- What pattern are you referring to? This is *one* summary in which I (someone whose field involves translation and interpretation of defters in his real life) am explaining to another editor what a defter is. As I've done with countless other editors in the Balkans who all believe the same misconception. There's nothing wrong with that and it's not insulting to clarify misconceptions people might believe in. You've filed one seriously overblown report a few days ago, so maybe you should calm down and not venture into yet another round of accusing other editors over literally nothing in this case.--Maleschreiber (talk) 22:47, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- Isn't it clearly against the spirit of WP:SUMMARYNO? He is mocking and belittling in an edit summary, which cannot be redacted. He also has a pattern of such behavior . I find these edit summaries inflammatory, passive aggressive, and uncalled for. The Balkans are already tense enough, and this behavior only inflames things, instead of calming things down. It is not hard to come up with such edit summaries, anyone can do it. If everyone did it, the atmosphere in the Balkans would be even worse. At a minimum a warning is due. Khirurg (talk) 22:17, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- No. You were not
explaining to another editor what a defter is.
You wrote about Sadko:Editor Sadko probably hasn't read a defter...
which is a PA. You don't get to assume what other people have done and then advertise it as a probable fact. You are not a medium or magician, and even if you were, you cannot speculate about other people in edit-summaries. That's abuse of edit-summaries because people cannot reply to your inflammatory personal speculation when you do it in an edit-summary. It's an underhanded editing practice. That's guaranteed to upset other editors. Talking about speculating about other editors, you have speculated about my origins and location based on the pictures I have on my user page, an act that led to an admonishment to you by El C. Since then, I've been trying to avoid interacting with you as much as possible, but I can't let this type of behaviour pass without comment. Also read WP:CALMDOWN:Telling editors to "calm down" or "keep calm" gets them worked up, and is also rude and condescending.
. It is part of the same type of passive-aggressive, presumptuous behaviour on your part that you are continuing to engage in. Dr. K. 23:29, 8 August 2020 (UTC)- There's no need to be "defensive" over a non-incident but you (Khirurg) also can't just go around in admins' talkpages and ask around for "at least a warning" without expecting to get a reply to the extreme accusations you're putting forward about one edit summary in which I addressed a detail about classification in classical studies.--Maleschreiber (talk) 23:38, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- No. You were not
- Yeah, that was a rather weird and toxic diff, one out of several, which has gone under the radar so far. It even gets worse when you read the justification for such a behaviour. I was calm about it, as I do not like to be dragged into the mud.
and it's not insulting to clarify misconceptions people might believe in
is just teenage passive-aggressive arrogant bully style of conduct (in my mind) and needs to be properly adressed. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 23:40, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- (ec) For someone who's done "nothing wrong", you're sure being defensive. And it's not "one edit summary", you did the same thing in the talkpage and in the past. It's a pattern of behavior that needs to stop. Khirurg (talk) 23:42, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- Also, Khirurg/Dr.K./Sadko you're making the same sort of accusations that you were making a few days ago about another editor in AN3 in the talkpage of the closing admin of that report. At some point, attempts to turn every single thing into an issue over which warnings, sanctions etc are asked must really stop. Sadko, you have already been logged to AE and warned not to turn reports into a tool against other editors. It's WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour and it drains the energy of editors who are actively engaged in content creating if they have to reply to accusations about the most miniscule of things.--Maleschreiber (talk) 23:47, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- That decision/opinion was not shared by all admins and editors. Do not spin. You can start with saying "sorry" rather than lawyering up. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 23:53, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Maleschreiber: What really needs to stop is your nasty habit of mocking users in edit summaries and on talkpages. That is what is WP:BATTLE. And if you find defending yourself "draining", then don't engage in this behavior. I was content to let the matter rest, but you came running here to get vindicated. Because it's not enough to let the matter rest, you have to win, don't you? Khirurg (talk) 00:07, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- That decision/opinion was not shared by all admins and editors. Do not spin. You can start with saying "sorry" rather than lawyering up. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 23:53, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- Also, Khirurg/Dr.K./Sadko you're making the same sort of accusations that you were making a few days ago about another editor in AN3 in the talkpage of the closing admin of that report. At some point, attempts to turn every single thing into an issue over which warnings, sanctions etc are asked must really stop. Sadko, you have already been logged to AE and warned not to turn reports into a tool against other editors. It's WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour and it drains the energy of editors who are actively engaged in content creating if they have to reply to accusations about the most miniscule of things.--Maleschreiber (talk) 23:47, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- (ec) For someone who's done "nothing wrong", you're sure being defensive. And it's not "one edit summary", you did the same thing in the talkpage and in the past. It's a pattern of behavior that needs to stop. Khirurg (talk) 23:42, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment The process of editing Balkan topics has become virtually pointless and unproductive, as most of the time is spent on talk page conflicts. There is an ogoing effort to accuse other editors of real of unreal issues. For that matter, Dr.K., Khirurg and Sadko too have recently been accused by other editors of inappropriate comments etc. It has become a cycle of accusations and opposition, and all of this involves a very large number of editors. I am staying away from editing controversial articles of the Balkans for some time as the area has become so tense and toxic that even responding to another editor might be a total loss of time and energy. I am focused on writing new articles these days and I am preparing some, and I suggest that other editors too do that. An editor is supposed to write and maintain content, not to spend so much time with clarifications, disputes and accusations. It is pointless. Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:05, 9 August 2020 (UTC)