Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 11:50, 23 December 2020

Azerbaijan Stub‑class Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Azerbaijan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Azerbaijan-related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AzerbaijanWikipedia:WikiProject AzerbaijanTemplate:WikiProject AzerbaijanAzerbaijan Stub This article has been rated as Stub-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Control

@AntonSamuel: The village seems to be under Armenian control, but everything around it is under Azeri control, including the main road leading to the village which is in the Lachin District (due to be returned by 1 December). Do you think this village will become an exclave of Armenian control or be given up (Russian MoD maps show this village as Azeri-controlled)? — CuriousGolden (T·C) 19:58, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: It's a good question, since the villages are in the former NKAO and per the ceasefire agreement, the lines of control would be maintained within the NKAO borders. Perhaps it's best to wait and see, but I'll see if I can find more information online. AntonSamuel (talk) 13:29, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree that it's best to wait and see. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 15:02, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: Chaylaqqala is under control of Azerbaijani military forces. We must remove (de-facto: Artsakh) from this page. (EljanM talk) 10:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Me and Anton have discussed this at https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:K%C3%B6hn%C9%99_Ta%C4%9Flar#Control . For now, we were able to come to conclusion about control of Kohne Taghlar and not Chaylaggala. Once things are clearer, we can edit this article too. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 10:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

@AntonSamuel: @Solavirum: @CuriousGolden: Çaylaqqala village is controlled by Azerbaijani Military Forces. We may remove artsakh from this page. Thanks! EljanM (TALK) 07:17, 21 December 2020

Yeah, it's pretty certain that it's under Azeri control now. I'll change it after Anton replies. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 07:21, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Anyone have any sources about Azerbaijani troops entering the village and the Russian peacekeepers leaving? I've looked a bit online and can't find much with regard to updates. AntonSamuel (talk) 08:58, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Several WP:RS such as Kommersant and BBC (Azeri service) have confirmed it. Source 1 & Source 2. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 09:02, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I've seen these before - these talk only about the Russian MoD map right, and not about reports from the ground? AntonSamuel (talk) 09:06, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Kommersant cites several incidents confirming Azeri control, like a video of Armenian soldiers leaving the area. Also, the fact that several Armenian captives have emerged from the area indicates Azeri control. I don't see any source that contradicts Azeri control in the current state. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 09:10, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

I've seen the video of Armenian soldiers retreating as well, I've linked it before. But yeah, Azerbaijani nominal control is likely so it may be appropriate to change the article - but perhaps the article can also reflect the current lack of clarity/the unknown status of the Russian peacekeepers, similar to the Shosh article. AntonSamuel (talk) 09:12, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

It's not really similar to Shushakend article since there are contradicting evidence of control and government claims about that village, yet I don't think Armenian government claims they still control this village. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 09:15, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Since Artsakh control is doubtful based on the sources available so far - the article can reflect that. However, I still think it's appropriate to mention that the situation remains somewhat unclear. AntonSamuel (talk) 09:41, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

I've updated it and included a sentence regarding its somewhat unclear control in the History section. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 09:50, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 21 December 2020

It has been proposed in this section that Çaylaqqala be renamed and moved to Khtsaberd. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Çaylaqqala → Khtsaberd – Move to "Khtsaberd" per WP:AT/WP:COMMONNAME:

Results from Google: Khtsaberd: 88,300 Çaylaqqala: 9,380 Chaylaggala: 355

Results from Google Scholar: Khtsaberd: 2 Çaylaqqala: 0 Chaylaggala: 0

AntonSamuel (talk) 09:05, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose - this village is controlled by Azerbaijani forces and this village is a part of Azerbaijan (de-facto|de-jure) EljanM (TALK) 11:38, 21 December 2020
• Support. Original and most common name. The page seem to have been moved to Çaylaqqala without discussion. Addictedtohistory (talk) 13:47, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

The page was created as Çaylaqqala, it wasn't moved. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 15:03, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

@CuriousGolden: Qardaş oppose yaz səndə. Qoy öz doğma dilimizdə qalsın. EljanM (TALK) 16:25, 21 December 2020

EljanM WP:ENGLISHPLEASE on english WP Addictedtohistory (talk) 07:50, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose De-facto and de-jure Azerbaijani. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.156.71.30 (talk) 11:01, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support, per WP:COMMONNAME. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk) 15:47, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

And also used by reliable sources including New York Times, Eurasianet, La Libre Belgique and etc. Sincerely, Գարիկ Ավագյան (talk) 09:11, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Thing you linked as New York Times is NYT's blog sections, not WP:RS per WP:BLOG. The Eurasia article you linked has no mention of Khtsaberd except in image captions which are written by photographers, not Eurasianet and the La Libre Belgique uses "Khtsaberd" once and that it's in a quote by Armenian authorities, so not an independent use. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 11:50, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose De-Facto and de-jure part of Azerbaijan just like Hin Tagher it must have an Azerbaijani name for it Carthago814 (talk) 21:25, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose Çaylaqqala is controlled by Azerbaijani forces since 14 December 2020. Thus, this village is de-facto and de-jure part of Azerbaijan.Cemsentin1 (talk) 02:26, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose Google isn't an indicator of WP:COMMONNAME and without a proper common name indicator, using Armenian name for a village fully under Azeri control is wrong. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 11:50, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

1. https://www.bbc.com/azeri/azerbaijan-55253513

• Stub-Class Azerbaijan articles
• Low-importance Azerbaijan articles
• WikiProject Azerbaijan articles
• Requested moves