| Revision as of 04:46, 18 March 2021 editSNUGGUMS (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers121,224 edits fix← Previous edit |
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| quote = As Adrianne LaFrance noted in the Atlantic, there is no self-evident unifying theory about why certain Misplaced Pages pages are higher quality than others. But with its combination of primary sources, motivated contributors, and shared vision, St. Patrick’s entry could be hinting at the magic formula. |
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| quote = As Adrianne LaFrance noted in the Atlantic, there is no self-evident unifying theory about why certain Misplaced Pages pages are higher quality than others. But with its combination of primary sources, motivated contributors, and shared vision, St. Patrick’s entry could be hinting at the magic formula. |
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{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1={{WikiProject Biography|living=no|class=B|listas=Patrick, Saint}} |
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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|living=no|listas=Patrick, Saint|1= |
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{{WikiProject Biography}} |
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{{WikiProject Christianity|class=B|importance=Top|catholicism=yes|catholicism-importance=Top|anglicanism=yes|anglicanism-importance=Mid|saints=yes|saints-importance=Top|eastern-orthodoxy=yes|eastern orthodoxy-importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Christianity|importance=Top|catholicism=yes|catholicism-importance=Top|anglicanism=yes|anglicanism-importance=Mid|saints=yes|saints-importance=Top|eastern-orthodoxy=yes|eastern-orthodoxy-importance=High}} |
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{{WikiProject Ireland|class=B|importance=top|peer-review=|old-peer-review=}} |
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{{afd-merged-from|Battle for the Body of Saint Patrick|Battle for the Body of Saint Patrick|19 November 2017}} |
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{{afd-merged-from|Battle for the Body of Saint Patrick|Battle for the Body of Saint Patrick|19 November 2017}} |
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== Lutheran saint? == |
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== St. Patrick's Birthplace, Place of Burial and Shrines == |
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The text asserts that Patric is "venerated as a saint in the ... Lutheran church...". Lutheran churches do not recognize "saints" or venerate them, even though Lutheran church buildings may be named after disciples, evangelists or archangels venerated by Catholics as "saints". ] (]) 14:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC) |
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There is absolutely no definitive, provable birthplace or place of burial for Patrick. Surely it makes sense to use the term "possibly" along with suggestions of various, debated places of origin? E.g. "Possibly Roman Britain", "Possibly Roman France". On the subject of major shrines, surely major Irish shrines should be listed? (Croagh Patrick, for example?) Thanks. |
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== Quality of Content == |
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== Questionable "Abduction Reinterpreted" Section == |
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This is a truly dreadful article, mostly obsessed with Catholic trivia about shamrocks, bells, and visions. Patrick was actually a most important person in establishing and propagating literacy - a fundamental tool for propagating religious philosophy. Catholicism, for example. By ignoring the literacy part of Patrick's existence, this article becomes an astonishing and execrable waste of time! Is nobody here aware of this other side of Patrick's life, not to mention being able to include some relevant history? ] (]) 01:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC) |
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This section rests on the assertions of one scholar, whose argument on this subject has not been accepted in mainstream scholarship on Late Antiquity or St. Patrick. See the review by Diarmaid MacCulloch. |
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:We don't really know any of this. You seem to want to replace one style of hagiographical myth-making with another. ] (]) 15:44, 17 March 2024 (UTC) |
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https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n15/diarmaid-macculloch/who-kicked-them-out |
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::I'm again astonished that a would-be Patrick scholar would be so completely in the dark about Patrick's work as to suggest that it's simply more "hagiographical myth-making"! Here is just '''one''' example of an academic analysis of Patrick's substantial, even monumental, works from 807 A.D.: https://www.confessio.ie/manuscripts/dublin#1 <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:47, 18 March 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:::I'm well aware of the ''Confessio'', but I don't think Patrick actually mentions teaching reading, let alone writing, anywhere in it, though he may well have done some of that. ] (]) 02:23, 18 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:I wholehearedly concur. There is a load of deliberate obfuscation here. What is the point of quoting an idiot from 130 years ago who was so arrogant as to assert that Patrick could not spell at all. You quote him as referring to "Bonaven Taburnia" when it is, of course, ''Bannavem Taburniae''. Yes... this does refer to the Roman Fort Banna on Hadrian's Wall (now usually called Birdoswald). |
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:The Bannaventa near Coventry is matched by another, now Banwen, in Wales and means "pig market". On the other hand Bannavem Taburniae means "The Boars' Inns" because when the legionaries left it became a hunting lodge complex. ] (]) 15:41, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Myth? == |
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I would propose eliminating the section outright, or, at least, adding a clear disclaimer that the opinion is not generally accepted. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:02, 13 December 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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So, is St. Patrick a myth? ] (]) 14:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC) |
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Checking the section itself it should either be made clearer that it only has a single source. One of the links is also now dead, I'm unsure how to show that on the citation itself. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:14, 13 December 2020 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Err..... no, but the Catholic Church did so mess with eg his dates (for their own political reasons) as to make their story as worthless as a myth. There was a real person born c420 at Gretna who died in 493. ] (]) 15:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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I agree. The reinterpretation is pure speculation, unless credible sources are provided. I could just as well speculate that both stories are true - that Patrick fled his legal responsibility and in route was abducted by raiders, enslaved, escaped, returned home to England where he was imprisoned to pay his debt for fleeing his Roman legal responsibility at 16. But, merging fact with fiction is still fiction. ] (]) 20:44, 14 March 2021 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2021 == |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2024 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Saint Patrick|answered=yes}} |
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{{edit semi-protected|Saint Patrick|answered=yes}} |
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Add a hyperlink to 'Ireland' in the patronage that leads to the Ireland Misplaced Pages page. ] (]) 21:25, 24 December 2024 (UTC) |
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It says that St Patrick was born in Great Britain but this is incorrect as Great Britain did not officially exist until 1707. It would be accurate and proper to state the British Isles which refers to the geographical area rather than to any particular country seeing as the country is contested however he was definitely not born in Great Britain unless he had a time machine! |
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Great Britain is widely understood to mean England, Wales and Scotland hence the British passport says the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Many today perceive Great Britain as a country. |
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Whilst it is said Great Britain was used colloquially to refer to the mainland of the British Isles, confusion can still arise when using the term today as it is also a politically loaded term which may be used to assert a particular identity rather than to assert a geographical area, particularly with regards to Unionist and Nationalist debates relating to national identity. For these reasons it would be more prudent to use British Isles. ] (]) 13:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC) |
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] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> |
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Saint Patrick's would still have been born in Great Britian in that case. It isn't used in a nopolitics context here so I don't think that is a worry either for this article. I don't think a change is needed. ] (]) 19:35, 4 March 2021 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2021 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Saint Patrick|answered=yes}} |
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I request that we change the spelling of Patrick to patryk thanks ] (]) 13:44, 17 March 2021 (UTC) |
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:] ''']:''' page move requests should be made at ].<!-- Template:ESp --> —<span style="color:#808080">]</span><sup><span style="color:#008080">]</span></sup> 14:06, 17 March 2021 (UTC) |
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== Romano-British? == |
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:{{not done}}:<!-- Template:ESp --> already linked under died and should not be relinked as per ] ] (]) 13:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC) |
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This may be a bit picky, but surely its better to say "Romano-Briton" or something along those lines, as the Britons was the celtic peoples of wales, while the British is a later term for people from the UK of Great Britain? ] (]) 16:03, 17 March 2021 (UTC) |
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:] is the established term. Grammar apart, "the Britons was the celtic peoples of wales " is not true - see ] and ] - and we don't know he came from Wales. ] (]) 17:17, 17 March 2021 (UTC) |
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The text asserts that Patric is "venerated as a saint in the ... Lutheran church...". Lutheran churches do not recognize "saints" or venerate them, even though Lutheran church buildings may be named after disciples, evangelists or archangels venerated by Catholics as "saints". Jarmo K. (talk) 14:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
This is a truly dreadful article, mostly obsessed with Catholic trivia about shamrocks, bells, and visions. Patrick was actually a most important person in establishing and propagating literacy - a fundamental tool for propagating religious philosophy. Catholicism, for example. By ignoring the literacy part of Patrick's existence, this article becomes an astonishing and execrable waste of time! Is nobody here aware of this other side of Patrick's life, not to mention being able to include some relevant history? Henrilebec (talk) 01:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Not done: already linked under died and should not be relinked as per MOS:REPEATLINK Ultraodan (talk) 13:54, 27 December 2024 (UTC)