| Revision as of 01:32, 5 October 2021 editDushan Jugum (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users12,651 edits →Rainbow Gathering picture: No luck finding refs, sad to see it go← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 12:48, 21 November 2024 edit undoLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,303,661 editsm Archiving 1 discussion(s) to Talk:New Age/Archive 10) (bot |
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== Where is Law of Attraction? == |
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==Modified the wording of a section to improve accuracy== |
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The position that new age science seeks to unite science and spirituality is non-neutral in favor of new age; "new age science" is a misnomer, as it is not science. It takes a sentence of reading through the ] article to see this. |
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This article is not mentioning a very relevant principle for the New Agers, which is the Law of Attraction — the more you work on yourself, the better are the things you attract to yourself (this happens because of divine forces), and therefore it's your fault if things in your life are not going well (I don't think they like to view it that way, since they're more optimistic by seeing it as an opportunity to thrive out from the unpleasant situation they're initially in). One reference could be the book/film The Secret, by Rhonda Byme, from which other references can be derived aligned with the proper historical contextualization. |
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] (]) 09:26, 6 July 2019 (UTC) |
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: - the article does not say "New Age science", it says "New Age approach to science" - ] (]) 14:57, 6 July 2019 (UTC) |
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I'm sorry, I don't really have a big repertoire of references with me, but it's really not THAT hard to find this kind of material. Whenever you look on YouTube for binaural sounds subconscious work mediation for attracting better things to your life, you can see all those New Age concepts mixed with each other, you see holistic medicine of Chakras (a relevant concept in New Age, Reiki...), and money attraction through electromagnetic, radioactive, light and quantum forces, you see everything! That's a reality you see everywhere when you watch those YouTube videos, and whenever you put the word "quantum" before any random thing you search on the internet. |
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::p.s. - this is not to say that there is not New Age ] (see ]), but the correspondence between real science and intuitive understanding of reality goes back at least as far as Fritjof Capra's 1975 book ] and Gary Zukav's 1979 book '']'' - pseudoscience is not limited to New Age, as in the cold fusion fiasco 1989 - ] (]) 20:39, 6 July 2019 (UTC) |
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::: You seem to have reverted my edit on the grounds of a wording error in my explanation, but it seems that my point still stands; "seek to unite science and spirituality" does not accurately describe the "New Age approach to science," because science relies on testable explanations, which are almost invariably absent on matters of spirituality. I can think of no compromise, as my initial edit was incredibly minor as to the change in meaning, anyway. Added "purportedly" back, in lieu of a better solution. (also I remembered to log in yay) |
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::: EDIT: also, am noob and not sure where the revert button is so I undid instead which I think might be wrong but it seems to have achieved the same thing - ] (]) 23:04, 9 July 2019 (UTC) |
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:::: - it doesn't "purportedly" seek to unite science and spirituality, it actually does seek to unite science and spirituality - whether or not it is successful or not is another question - the intent is to find correlations between our intuitive understanding of reality and the scientific model of the world, it doesn't mean replacing or influencing scientific experimentation or proving spiritual beliefs through science - ] (]) 23:31, 9 July 2019 (UTC) |
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::::: I had more reasons typed out, but this is going to become a fairly trivial series of reverts if I don't give up. ] (]) 00:33, 10 July 2019 (UTC) |
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:::::: - you would need to add a source that states that "New Age science purportedly seeks to unite science and spirituality" - otherwise it is your opinion - see ], ], ] - the ] section in the article is well researched and gives an overview of the different approaches and crticisms - ] (]) 00:45, 10 July 2019 (UTC) |
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Many entrepreneurship courses currently use Law of Attraction for validating their success using New Age terms such as "energy", "vibration" and "frequency" so they can justify that other people can thrive in life just as they did, because the work is not just done by means of action, but most importantly through inner work, and this is how the Law of Attraction provides a phenomenon called Manifestation (the moment in which reality manifest what we've been working through our thoughts and we've been exercising with our emotional projections). Examples: Afiliagram, Tam Kaur, Lavendaire, Manifestelle, etc. On the internet, some will say you just need to think and look inwards, so you will be able to manifest anything. Others will say you need to contribute to your progress by actively acting on it (this idea is more common among entrepreneurs educators online). These entrepreneurs claim that since the feeling of shame is the lowest vibration you can see according to easy-finding online emotional energy graphs (yes, they don't use scientific-based Information), then it's necessary to make the reverse process by feeling more prideful about yourself (the emotion opposite to shame is pride). What I've been seeing lately on the internet is that the relationship between entrepreneurs who work as entrepreneurship educators through online courses and the New Age movement, both have been getting closer with each other. |
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== Add sidebar? == |
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So my suggestion is that researchers on the topic should get a closer look into this, and really see how those environments within such courses really operate, and how these irrational-based New Age movements have been used as an emotional pushing for common people who get into those courses to become entrepreneurs, and then make more courses telling people the same thing — that they have been working in themselves to elevate their energy to attract better things to themselves —, so that's a cycle. It's common both in USA, but also in Brazil, the country I'm from. In short, the New Age movement is closely related to the capitalist/financial relations in our digital age society. ] (]) 03:24, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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Should we add the sidebar ] since New Age is an important and large religious category it is helpful to have a sidebar with links to further readings.] (]) 20:41, 12 September 2019 (UTC) |
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:{{u|AndregustavoSoyJo}}, here on Misplaced Pages, it is all about accurately summarizing what reliable sources say about the topic. ] is most definitely ''not'' a reliable source. It is a pack of pseudoscientific nonsense. So, witing four long paragraphs without identifying a single reliable source is a waste of your time and that of other editors. Reliable sources are like gold on Misplaced Pages. Everything else is like sand, straw and horsefeathers. ] (]) 03:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::@] New Age IS made of unreliable sources. Since I'm speaking about pseudoscience, of course, I'm bringing the source they use to justify their pseudoscientific beliefs, such as this book. ] (]) 09:37, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:::{{u|AndregustavoSoyJo}}, references to unreliable sources are forbidden everywhere on Misplaced Pages, except in very narrow circumstances. Coverage of fringe topics requires excellent references to indisputably reliable sources. Examples might be works by scholars who are experts in comparative religion, whose work has been published by university presses or respected peer-reviewed academic journals. ] (]) 09:46, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::::@] Everything I'm saying here is that this article is missing mention about the Law of Attraction. It's widely believed among New Agers that this is a real law. |
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::::I don't have all the answers, if I had all the research I would just edit the document, instead of entering a forum on Misplaced Pages. I'm just making a suggestion about the orientation of your research to make this information more complete to the readers. ] (]) 09:49, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::{{u|AndregustavoSoyJo}}, if you want the Law of Attraction to be mentioned in this article, then the burden is on you to find a truly reliable source that explicitly makes the connection between the Law of Attraction and New Age. It is that simple. As for this talk page being a "forum", no it isn't. Please read ]. Article talk pages are for discussing specific, actionable proposals to improve an article ''based on what reliable sources say". ] (]) 19:51, 28 November 2023 (UTC) |
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== Authenticity Of Article == |
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== Relation to postmodernism == |
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{{hat|reason=Trolling by now-blocked user}} |
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I'm afraid this article is biased as it is against the New Age and is referring to Adventism, the belief in a redemption of a select few at the end of the world. The New Age is not like that. Please be neutral and use neutral sources whenever possible. ] (]) 15:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:By the way, you're thinking backwards. The New Age does not go by the same paradigm of thought like many of your articles into which are more accurate (like your article on archae or "archaebacteria"). If you were to use neutral sources like Melody Baker's ''A New Consciousness'', then you have it made. ] (]) 15:34, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
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On first sight one (e.g. I) can be confused that New Age and postmodernism are synonymous. Nevertheless, the only relation is a link to Postmodernism in New Age's "Other influences" section. |
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:Oh, and your article is too much information. Shorten it as much as possible. ] (]) 15:37, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
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My quick search shows that the question has been discussed before ] and (based on Paul Heelas, 1996). |
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:The article on the New Age instates a concise definition is difficult. Yes, but one person has made a solid definition. I won't reveal his name, but someone else said the New Age is a "different religion." I apologize for any hard feelings depicted on my posts. ] (]) 16:14, 17 February 2024 (UTC) |
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Can someone more knowledgeable comment on the relation and/or edit this article and the Postmodernism article? |
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:We like to stay neutral at Misplaced Pages, meaning that we report only what reliable secondary sources say. That isn’t to say that this article might not be biased - in fact it might very well be, if indeed it refers to adventism instead of actual New Age thought at some points. If you could provide some sources and some specific points that you’d like to fix you can post those here and/or make the edit. ] (]) 17:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC) |
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] (]) 16:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC) |
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::Oh, don't worry about that. I am just making sure the sources are not biased. There is a book by counselor Melody Baker titled ''A New Consciousness: The True Spirit Of New Age'', describing a nationwide survey and results from New Age Unitarians with individual stories. It turns out that the article on ] is identical to the stereotype of New Age adherents. The Unitarians she dealt with were a stark contradiction to the popular stereotype Misplaced Pages describes. ] (]) 23:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::That's good fact checking, thank you for that. If it ends up not being the greatest source and we need another I can start the search for another if needed. ] (]) 02:59, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Thank you, and Godspeed. ] (]) 20:59, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:Even though the article is well-written and thoroughly comprehensive, I find the term ''New Age'' to be American slang for ] and the "New Age movement" of the 20th century the popularity of the Taoist faith. It died out in 2002 when Taoism became the third-largest religion on Earth at 1.1 billion. I know, because I watched it on a PBS news program on religion that announced its demise in early 2003. Now, it's 1.4 billion. |
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:This is what I call New Age in a nutshell. ] (]) 14:02, 4 May 2024 (UTC) |
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::Is there a specific change you’d like to make to the article? ] (]) 14:22, 4 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Just a brief summary that can be understood by everyone. Other than that, no specific change. Yes, the New Age is a religion ''in the general sense'', but due to its diversity, there's no telling who's who. I know, because I am one of them. ] (]) 18:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
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{{od}} |
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Where does the article refer to adventism? ] - ] 21:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:It doesn't. ] (]) 21:14, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::''A New Consciousness'' is from 1991, published by New Thought Pub, an obscure publisher, and written by Melodie Baker, an unknown author. With other words: totally fails ]. ] - ] 21:18, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Um, no, that's not in any way how we determine whether a source is reliable. The only concern here would be if it is self-published. Is the author the owner of the press? ] (]) 21:20, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::::If you discover what this publisher is, then you can tell me... ] - ] 21:23, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::: refer's to Baker's book. ] - ] 21:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::New Thought Publishing Co. was (is?) a Chicago publisher established around the beginning of the 20th century. It published many early New Thought authors. Not sure whether it still exists, but it still did in the 1990s. ] (]) 21:44, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Uh, Skyrise, that is referring to the older ''New Age'' magazine periodical founded in the early 20th century, but I don't think New Thought Publishing is still available. If you wish to make your articles more credible, I suggest you renew your sources once a year (after our annual pledge drive). ] (]) 23:33, 29 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::Self-published? ''Oh, no!'' 😭. In reference to Eckankar, a former leader by the name of Sri Darwin Gross self-published his book ''We Kids'' as a reaction to his excommunication from Eckankar and replaced by Sri Harold Klemp. See who's the new "Living ECK master" if something happened to Klemp. Just make sure the publisher is authentic. ] (]) 23:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::Ah, I thought you didn't make much sense. Now I see it's intentional. Muted. ] (]) 23:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Guys, I owe you and Misplaced Pages an apology. I thought the article on ] was about the religion of the same name. Instead, it described a millenarian movement of lay practitioners. I believe that the Unitarian "New Age" would be found under ]. Practitioners of this "New Age" are also called Unitarians due to their uniqueness. ] (]) 20:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC) |
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{{hab}} |
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== New Age Religion == |
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== On religious beliefs as private property == |
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{{hat|Trolling by now-blocked sockpuppet of the above user}} |
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Although the New Age is technically a religion with a different vantage, the sources of this article are obsolete and not always reliable. If possible, I propose an alternate subject being ''New Age (Religion)''. This is not to be a replacement for the article on the New Age movement but instead a separate article instating that a religion of the same name exists and sources by authors such as ] and ] are to be validated. Just thought I'd ask. ] (]) 22:38, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:@], what are the aspects of New Age religion that you don't think can be adequately covered in this article? What is missing, and what are the reliable sources not included? See ] for the concerns about branching the article. Also, academic sources and independent sources are preferred to those written by adherents. ] ] 22:46, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
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::Uh, no, that is not what I meant. I meant a separate article on the adherents of the New Age we call "Manx." It is not part of the article on the New Age movement -- into which in my honest opinion is just the popularity of the New Age religion and Eastern philosophy. The critics are just telling us ". . .not to fool around with the subject and focus on what we are most familiar with!". That means New Agers are just dabbling. You guys wrote quite an article, although I find it too lengthy to add more content in my opinion. ] (]) 21:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:::You'll need to provide some sources. My search on "new age manx" only returns articles about the cat. ] ] 22:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC) |
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::::That's not the point. Even though the article on New Age covers the religion thereof, there is too much slang and jargon written in the space of the article. Please use the appropriate grammar in the English Misplaced Pages. The German, Spanish and Japanese Wikipedias speak of it as a religion -- and their sources are accurate. See if you can make it a Misplaced Pages policy to use appropriate grammar. ] (]) 22:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::Could you point to some specific instances in the article? ] ] 22:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::When using the word '']'' or '']'' instead of '']''. The definition of ''milieu'' in a separate article contradicts the definition in the same article. Please correct the article by using correct grammar. Slang is often perceived as ] or ]. Some users cannot understand the words used, so I'll leave it up to you if a "no slang" policy is necessary. ] (]) 22:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::{{ping|Schazjmd}} this user appears to be trolling. Possibly a sockpuppet of {{user|Unitarian9999}} who was trolling in the immediately previous section. Their goal seems to be wasting other editor's time with apparently serious queries which are simply made up. There is no "New Age" "manx" - they are trolling you. ] (]) 23:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC) |
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{{hab}} |
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== Suggestion == |
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"Its belief that all traditions are free for anyone to use, rather than the private property of particular communities, has resulted in New Agers adopting and marketing the practices of other societies." |
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May I suggest something. See if you can add "literary genre consisting of" as in "'''New Age''' is a literary genre consisting of a range of religious and spiritual beliefs that emerged during the early 1970's." ] (]) 02:32, 4 November 2024 (UTC) |
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The only source for the idea that particular communities hold 'private property' of religious beliefs seems to come from the cited essay by Michael York. It's unclear if this framing should be presented by the article as fact or if 'New Agers' actually believe this. Possibly rephrase the article to emphasize that this is the opinion of scholars. |
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== Really, not a good article == |
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--] (]) 13:28, 7 November 2020 (UTC) |
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Firstly, the term "New Age" has been around since the late 19th century, and was "a movement" even back then, if largely a random collection of fads. |
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:I rewrote the section without the "private property" claims. Most religions recycle ideas from previous religions. --] (]) 16:33, 7 November 2020 (UTC) |
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Second: please CEASE referring to every random commercial writer as a "scholar." This is a trick of a poor writer who is attempting to manipulate the audience by pretending that every trashy pocket paperback is equivalent to scholarly texts. |
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== Rainbow Gathering picture == |
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And, the term "New Age" appears 500+ times, further highlighting intentional manipulation. |
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The Rainbow Gathering picture was removed and then restored - but there are some problems with the picture - it is a personal picture taken by a Misplaced Pages editor, it is not from a reliable source - there is no way to verify that it is a New Age gathering - there is no reference in the article to Rainbow Gathering, so there is no context for the photo, what is a Rainbow Gathering? - I agree that the photo should be removed from the article for lacking a verifiable source per ] - cheers - ] (]) 18:21, 4 October 2021 (UTC) |
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] (]) 08:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:There is a correlation between these two terms online, although I could not find a definitive reference that says "Rainbow Gatherings" are "New Age". Misplaced Pages says "New Age beliefs are prevalent" at ]s but does not provide a reference, typical, they should really do something. I am happy for the photo to stay but can not find a reason why, it's the vibe man. What really is New Age what really is a Rainbow, who can tell. ] (]) 01:32, 5 October 2021 (UTC) |
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This article is not mentioning a very relevant principle for the New Agers, which is the Law of Attraction — the more you work on yourself, the better are the things you attract to yourself (this happens because of divine forces), and therefore it's your fault if things in your life are not going well (I don't think they like to view it that way, since they're more optimistic by seeing it as an opportunity to thrive out from the unpleasant situation they're initially in). One reference could be the book/film The Secret, by Rhonda Byme, from which other references can be derived aligned with the proper historical contextualization.
I'm sorry, I don't really have a big repertoire of references with me, but it's really not THAT hard to find this kind of material. Whenever you look on YouTube for binaural sounds subconscious work mediation for attracting better things to your life, you can see all those New Age concepts mixed with each other, you see holistic medicine of Chakras (a relevant concept in New Age, Reiki...), and money attraction through electromagnetic, radioactive, light and quantum forces, you see everything! That's a reality you see everywhere when you watch those YouTube videos, and whenever you put the word "quantum" before any random thing you search on the internet.
Many entrepreneurship courses currently use Law of Attraction for validating their success using New Age terms such as "energy", "vibration" and "frequency" so they can justify that other people can thrive in life just as they did, because the work is not just done by means of action, but most importantly through inner work, and this is how the Law of Attraction provides a phenomenon called Manifestation (the moment in which reality manifest what we've been working through our thoughts and we've been exercising with our emotional projections). Examples: Afiliagram, Tam Kaur, Lavendaire, Manifestelle, etc. On the internet, some will say you just need to think and look inwards, so you will be able to manifest anything. Others will say you need to contribute to your progress by actively acting on it (this idea is more common among entrepreneurs educators online). These entrepreneurs claim that since the feeling of shame is the lowest vibration you can see according to easy-finding online emotional energy graphs (yes, they don't use scientific-based Information), then it's necessary to make the reverse process by feeling more prideful about yourself (the emotion opposite to shame is pride). What I've been seeing lately on the internet is that the relationship between entrepreneurs who work as entrepreneurship educators through online courses and the New Age movement, both have been getting closer with each other.
So my suggestion is that researchers on the topic should get a closer look into this, and really see how those environments within such courses really operate, and how these irrational-based New Age movements have been used as an emotional pushing for common people who get into those courses to become entrepreneurs, and then make more courses telling people the same thing — that they have been working in themselves to elevate their energy to attract better things to themselves —, so that's a cycle. It's common both in USA, but also in Brazil, the country I'm from. In short, the New Age movement is closely related to the capitalist/financial relations in our digital age society. AndregustavoSoyJo (talk) 03:24, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Firstly, the term "New Age" has been around since the late 19th century, and was "a movement" even back then, if largely a random collection of fads.
Second: please CEASE referring to every random commercial writer as a "scholar." This is a trick of a poor writer who is attempting to manipulate the audience by pretending that every trashy pocket paperback is equivalent to scholarly texts.
level-4 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
.png){kind=small}
