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| {{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/University_of_Chicago/Ancient_Mediterranean_World_I_(Autumn_2018) | assignments = ] | start_date = 2018-10-02 | end_date = 2018-12-15 }} | |||
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| == Picture == | |||
| ] This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2018-10-02">2 October 2018</span> and <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2018-12-15">15 December 2018</span>. Further details are available ]. Student editor(s): ]. | |||
| Does that Wellstone! man have anything to do with anything? <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]){{#if:11:05, 4 December 2006 (UTC)| 11:05, 4 December 2006 (UTC)|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> | |||
| {{small|Above undated message substituted from ] by ] (]) 08:58, 18 January 2022 (UTC)}} | |||
| :Uh, no. That was inserted by a long-term vandal. 16:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Juvenilia == | |||
| I've removed the following: | |||
| :*Hephaestus appears in the '']'' episode "Hawk and Dove"; he is voiced by ]. In the episode, Hephaestus builds the Annihilator, a heavy-armored ] which is fueled by rage. He sells it to Ares, who uses it to start a ] in a ] country. | |||
| :*Hephaestus is mentioned in the ] '']'' in the ] titled "Number 547: Mythology". | |||
| :*In the computer game '']'', there is a unique foe guarding the "Hellforge" located in the River of Flame, which the character must defeat in order to progress with a side-quest. The demon is named ], which has possible relevance to the God Hephaestus. | |||
| :*In the anime '']'' one of Zudomon's attacks was called Vulcan's Hammer. | |||
| It all seemed too trivial. Still, I'm aware that I'm less than averagely bewitched by the charms of ''anime'', etc. -- ] 22:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Aye, the point that seems to pass over many heads is that a little acquaintance with ''Hephaestus'' may explain some characters and details in these market-driven productions, and so a link is relevant there, but that the converse is not true. It depends partly in understanding ''converse'', I suppose. --] 10:00, 8 August 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::If BioShock is worth a mention I think the Soulcalibur games are deffinitly worth one.] 21:57, 1 September 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == CooL! == | |||
| I saw the epsoid of hawk and dove i must of missed it. | |||
| BUNNY! <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| That has nothing to do with the Hephaestus discussion. ]<font color="1E90FF">{♦}</font> <sup>]</sup> 19:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
| Yes it does <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 15:28, 2 September 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| == Concern regarding portrait == | |||
| While it is acknowledged that many forms of artwork regarding this period of history do not have the prohibition on nudity, there may be a reasoning for replacing the portrait due to potential issues regarding age appropriateness. I leave it up to the ] and ] groups to make the final call on this as I am a newly "born" wikipedian | |||
| ] 05:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| idc <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 17:37, 3 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| * Just came back to Misplaced Pages after a while and noticed this. No objections to the page now. ] (]) 00:16, 2 June 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == Article Flow == | |||
| Sorry if I'm stepping on toes, but I just wanted to point out that the paragraph about Hephaestus getting revenge against Hera is repeated, once in the introduction and once about his birth. I thought that to be unnecessary. | |||
| Also, the introduction section holds other unnecessary information, such as his attempted rape of Athena. A double spacing makes me assume that this may have been moved from another section of the article. | |||
| Whilst not confidant enough to alter these myself, I thought I would bring it to the attention of someone who is. Thank you. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 10:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| ==Unprotected!== | |||
| Unprotected! an invitation for vandalism to resume, no doubt.--] (]) 19:42, 24 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == God of what? == | |||
| Hephaestus is actually only the god of fire. The only evidence to prove he is also god of smithing and the forge is speculation from Homer's poems The Iliad and The Odyssey, which tell the story of Troy. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 11:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| Not exactly. In a book I've read, it does say Hephaestus '''is''' the God of Fire ''and'' Blacksmith. It really depends on what version of the myth you read or have heard. ]<font color="1E90FF">{♦}</font> <sup>]</sup> 19:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
| A better specific citation is needed than "in a book I read," but I agree that smiths and forging are an essential part of the perceived nature of Hephaestus. However, I disagree with several places that specifically say "blacksmithing." As noted elsewhere in the article, the Mycenaean worship of Hephaestus is suggested by both a reference in their Linear B script and his presence in the Homeric epics. Granted the latter could be anachronistic, but the point remains that the Mycenaeans were a Bronze Age society. There's no clear evidence that Hephaestus' association was specifically with blacksmithing iron and not metalworking in general. I think the evidence points toward the latter, but in any case, there's no reason for the article to imply a limited association with iron-working rather than a broad association with metal-working. ] (]) 22:29, 5 September 2020 (UTC) | |||
| ==Someone really likes the word "lame"...== | |||
| This is an excerpt from the article: | |||
| ''Hephaestus was reported in myth as cholōs, '''"lame"''', crippled, halting (ēpedanos) misshapen, and '''"lame"''' or sometimes '''"lame"'''.'' | |||
| Is it really necessary to repeat the word 3 times? And is it just a repetition, or did someone think it would be funny to replace other adjectives with "lame"?] (]) 21:43, 13 April 2009 (UTC) | |||
| lol. No, it isn't necessary. Two of them should be removed. ]<font color="1E90FF">{♦}</font> <sup>]</sup> 19:35, 15 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
| It's because lame is also meant crippled or injured. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:37, 7 November 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| Yeah, it's like people are being rude to the god like how the Greeks portrayed him as well, needs some clean-up. ] (]) 10:55, 18 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| =="Hephacules"== | |||
| "''He had a follower who named himself ] after him.''" This insertion, made 22:28, 21 February 2007 by an anonymous passer-by, lasted until today. I have eliminated it. Since this article is not given any protection, I shall probably make up for the half-hour I've just spent tracking down this joker by reverting all the anon. IP edits I notice at this article, without wasting my time checking them. --] (]) 18:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ==His name== | |||
| If he was Hēphaistos in Greek and Vulcan in Latin, mightn't it be better to retitle the article Hēphaistos or Hephaistos? -- ] (]) | |||
| Actually, he was Ēphaistios in Greek. I know that because: | |||
| *1) There's no letter "H" equivalent in the Greek alphabet. | |||
| *2) As for the 2nd "I", just look at the name "Athanásios" (which is a Greek name). | |||
| ] (]) 00:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :The English-language name is ''Hephaestus''. In English, excruciating attempts for "correctness" have a pretentious air to them, which may be hard to detect if you are Greek or German or Hungarian. French, Spanish and Italian all have their own equivalents of familiar Greek places and names: unfamiliar ones are sometimes transcribed more accurately. But Hephaestus is familiar to most adults.--] (]) 02:06, 26 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
| reckon it's the same... lol it's Hephaestus to me <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 08:55, 8 August 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| ==adulterer's fine== | |||
| What is this adulterer's fine that is mentioned in the article? | |||
| Yes I'm quit confused on this too, I'll try looking it up ] (]) 03:25, 14 November 2009 (UTC) | |||
| == "Siblings" indeed== | |||
| I deleted a clownish random list of "siblings" that are ''linked in no myth with Hephaestus'' but are simply other children of ]. Listmakers (a disinfobox is just a pretentious type of listing) are unaware of misleading runaway "listings". Aphrodite, as daughter of Cronus, might be "listed" as Hera's "aunt" and thus as Hephaestus' great aunt, which would make Eros his first cousin once removed: silliness knows no boundaries. Responsible editors stick, therefore, to texts—— in which no "siblings" of Hephaestus appear. --] (]) 10:36, 19 November 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :Though ''Hephaestus'' has been co-opted recently for a "smart" wheelchair system, I wish there were a reference to some Greek literary or pictorial source for: | |||
| ::''In some myths, Hephaestus built himself a "wheeled chair" or chariot with which to move around, thus helping him overcome his lameness while showing the other gods his skill.'' (reference given: Jay Dolmage, "'Breathe Upon Us an Even Flame': Hephaestus, History, and the Body of Rhetoric," ''Rhetoric Review'' Vol. 25, No. 2 (2006), 119-140. 120.). | |||
| :Has anyone seen an image of Hephaestus in a wheeled chair? --] (]) 01:05, 9 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ::The cited article in fact has such an image, captioned: "Figure 1: Hephaestus on a winged throne. Red figure cup by the Ambrosius Painter. Attic, ca. 510 BCE. Late Archaic. Inv. F. 2273. Destroyed in WWII. Antikensammlung, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin, Berlin, Germany." The article says of it: "In Figure 1, Hephaestus appears “able-bodied,” yet he rides a proto-wheelchair, a chariot with wings. ... In Figure 1, because he holds his tools and he rides a chariot that he has crafted, his abilities as an artisan are also depicted, and these skills are valued." Do we believe that this can reasonably be interpreted as a "proto-wheelchair" rather than, say, a "proto-ornithopter"? I don't know -- it would be nice to have confirmation from, say, a classical archaeologist or art historian rather than an . --] (]) 03:06, 9 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
| :::Good call! I can't get the image through JSTOR. A winged throne is not a wheeled chair unless it has wheels: a winged chariot. Were the wheels depicted on the Ambrosius Painter cup? Then I'd be satisfied: often vase-painters followed parallel traditions, not represented by poets.--] (]) 20:19, 10 March 2010 (UTC) | |||
| Interesting. | |||
| ] (]) 17:21, 19 May 2020 (UTC) | |||
| == the Lame Smith in Pop culture == | |||
| Should we make a section on that? especially since he was one of the main story driving characters in God of War 3-] (]) 05:36, 15 April 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == Question and comment == | |||
| I shuffled some sections for a better sequence (epithets, mythology, symbolism) and created a section out of another one (comparative mythology from symbolism). I add a question and a comment. | |||
| 1. "In one version of the myth, Prometheus stole the fire that he gave to man from Hephaestus's forge." | |||
| What's the source? | |||
| 2. "There is a Temple of Hephaestus in Athens, the Hephaesteum (miscalled the "Theseum"), located near the agora, or marketplace. An Athenian founding myth tells that the city's patron godess, Athena, refused a union with Hephaestus because of his unsightly appearance and crippled nature, and that when he became angry and forceful with her, she disappeared from the bed. His ejaculation landed on the earth, impregnating Gaia, who subsequently gave birth to Erichthonius of Athens" | |||
| This is not consistent with the article on Erechtheus. | |||
| ] (]) 07:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC) | |||
| == Etymology == | == Etymology == | ||
| The inscriptions in Linear B '' A-pa-i-ti-jo'' and ''Pa-i-to'' probably relate "Hephaistos" with "Phaistos". If someone has a reliable reference he can add it. (In Greek the relation is obvious). ] 15:37, 19 May 2022 (UTC) | |||
| In a ] inscription appears the name ''a-pa-i-ti-jo'' who is probably ] or "Haphaistios" <ref>Chadwick (1976), ''The Mycenaean world'' p.99 </ref> The name seems to be related with the Minoan city ] but I admit that it is unsourced. I took into account that in the well-known genealogical tree of Kinaithon ( Pausan. VIII 53,5) Malten interpreted rightly "Phaistos" instead of "Hephaistos". (Some other translators interpreted "Hephaistos"). | |||
| In ] the name for Phaistos is ''Pa-i-to''. <ref>F.Schachermeyer (1964). ''Die Minoische Kultur des alten Kreta'' p.304 </ref> Jestmoon jest 22:05, 19 July 2013 (UTC) | |||
| {{Reflist}} | |||
| : '''Ήφαιστος vs. Hephaestus'''. Compared with the original Greek spelling/sound, it seems the English/Latin version has an additional sound of ''h'' at the beginning. Could anyone explain this ''h'' sound? --] (]) 19:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == Creator god? == | |||
| ::The "classical" Greek alphabet doesn't have a letter "h" but ancient Greek had the consonant. The "h" in heuristic, Hellenic, Helen, hydration, hyperbole and many more has indeed come down to us from the Greek roots. Our article ] goes into detail. If these things interest you, you'll also find there that our pronounciation of the "ph" in Hephaestus as a sort of "f" is very different from the old Greek pronunciation. ] (]) 20:39, 22 January 2023 (UTC) | |||
| ::@ ]: Just to clarify, the the "h" sound is indicated by the ] at the beginning of the Greek word. ] (]) 14:32, 7 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ==Eros or Harmonia?== | |||
| Is he not the Creator god of the earth and all nature in ancient Greek religion? He was equated with ] so this only seems logical to include that in this article. ] (]) 09:33, 18 October 2014 (UTC) | |||
| I've read before, that although most Greek myths say that Aphrodite & Hephaestus' marriage produced no children, in a few versions either Eros (as noted in the article) or ] was the child of Hephaestus.--] (]) 03:55, 19 June 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == References to "Vulcan", particularly in captions == | |||
| Definitely not. Pretty sure the creator god/goddess is Gaia. Maybe Rhea, but I think it's Gaia. | |||
| ] (]) 17:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC) | |||
| These references seem confusing, Vulcan's relation to Hephaestus could use an explanation, maybe in a footnote? | |||
| The creator God is ] because he created ]/ existence. Before him the world was "timeless."--] (]) 01:08, 30 December 2020 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 14:36, 26 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == Parentage subsection == | |||
| :That's described in the second sentence of the article and in the infobox. ] (]) 14:39, 26 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
| I rewrote most of the subsection on the parentage so each available classical source I could find can be compared, avoiding confusion and contradictions. Sources and links for each are provided (Hesiod, Homer (2) and Pseudo-Apollodorus). | |||
| ::Found it, thanks. ] (]) 13:27, 16 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == New image == | |||
| ] (]) 08:35, 29 March 2018 (UTC) | |||
| Hi I think the infobox should have a new image. First of all, the current image isn't ancient. Second of all, I can barely see his face because of it's positioning. I think that ] would work better because it's positioned better and it's ancient. ] (]) 23:14, 28 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == A suggestion for improving this article == | |||
| :Why do you say Thorvaldsen's statue is ancient? ] (]) 00:29, 29 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
| This article is written and organized as though Hephaestus is an actual living-and-breathing character. It’s written like it’s an article on a person or on a zebra. In that way, it isn’t as much help as it could be to those who are interested in studying the myths and the literature. The important sources tend to be confined to footnotes, or sometimes fragmentary, or scattered about or jumbled together. I think the article would be improved if it had a section on Hephaestus in Hesiod, and another section on Hephaestus in The Iliad, etc. Another illustration of this same problem is that if a reader wants to find out about Hephaestus — as he plays an important role in Aeschylus — you have to read the entire article just to find out whether Aeschylus is included or not.] (]) 15:25, 16 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
| ::I thought it was. It's a mistake on my part. ] (]) 00:32, 29 July 2023 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 04:09, 20 October 2024
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 October 2018 and 15 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jack f t.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:58, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Etymology
The inscriptions in Linear B A-pa-i-ti-jo and Pa-i-to probably relate "Hephaistos" with "Phaistos". If someone has a reliable reference he can add it. (In Greek the relation is obvious). Jestmoon(talk) 15:37, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
- Ήφαιστος vs. Hephaestus. Compared with the original Greek spelling/sound, it seems the English/Latin version has an additional sound of h at the beginning. Could anyone explain this h sound? --Roland (talk) 19:53, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
- The "classical" Greek alphabet doesn't have a letter "h" but ancient Greek had the consonant. The "h" in heuristic, Hellenic, Helen, hydration, hyperbole and many more has indeed come down to us from the Greek roots. Our article Ancient Greek phonology goes into detail. If these things interest you, you'll also find there that our pronounciation of the "ph" in Hephaestus as a sort of "f" is very different from the old Greek pronunciation. NebY (talk) 20:39, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
- @ Roland: Just to clarify, the the "h" sound is indicated by the comma-like symbol at the beginning of the Greek word. Moonraker12 (talk) 14:32, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
Eros or Harmonia?
I've read before, that although most Greek myths say that Aphrodite & Hephaestus' marriage produced no children, in a few versions either Eros (as noted in the article) or Harmonia was the child of Hephaestus.--Splashen (talk) 03:55, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
References to "Vulcan", particularly in captions
These references seem confusing, Vulcan's relation to Hephaestus could use an explanation, maybe in a footnote?
22jcampb (talk) 14:36, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- That's described in the second sentence of the article and in the infobox. NebY (talk) 14:39, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
- Found it, thanks. 22jcampb (talk) 13:27, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
New image
Hi I think the infobox should have a new image. First of all, the current image isn't ancient. Second of all, I can barely see his face because of it's positioning. I think that File:Vulcan by Bertel Thorvaldsen.jpg would work better because it's positioned better and it's ancient. Ghost_Cacus (talk) 23:14, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- Why do you say Thorvaldsen's statue is ancient? NebY (talk) 00:29, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- I thought it was. It's a mistake on my part. Ghost_Cacus (talk) 00:32, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
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