Talk:United States Marine Corps: Difference between revisions

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	== Marine Corps casualties section ==

	I’m unclear on this, but what are we gaining from this section? ] (]) 01:34, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

	:I don't know either. Given that the same user added similar information to History of the ], it's redundant here anyway. User had been warned for 3RR, but reverted anyway. ] (]) 04:05, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

	== Correct 0-3 USMC (& USN, USCG) Rank insignia ==

	I added a correct image for the USMC/ USN/ USCG 0-3 rank insignia and it keep being reverted by those who just use the excuse that the previous one (the US Army & US Air Force) has always been in use. If anyone besides myself, can help me make my point to those who are -not- knowledgeable to the US military rank insignias,(but keep reverting it back because they can), that the one I updated is the correct one. Even the shoulder boards that is in the article page shows the correct one.

	]
	USMC / USN/ USCG

	]
	USA / USAF/ USSP

	:The image you keep trying to swap-in you uploaded yourself, and you've added no ] to support you changes, while engaging in a ]. Here is an . Please have a look at it, specifically the images of USMC Captains bars and Army Captains bars. Thank you - ] 06:57, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

	::Ok since youre clearly not in the military and wouldnt know that the DoD typically uses Army rank insignia since they are the senior most branch, here are examples. Please have a look at ACTUAL Marines in uniform, specifically their rank insignias. Thank you. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 07:06, 10 February 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:::Whoa, you need to cool your jets son. Whether I am, or was, in the military in none of your business. That said, I have already shared with previously that I did in fact serve. But this isn't the military, this is Misplaced Pages, where sourcing and consensus determine content, not ranting and personal opinions.<p>Those two links you just added are likely of little use. You need to provide images, that themselves are reliably supported, and fit in with the other rank images already in use. ''Then'' you need to establish a consensus to support your proposed changes. And you need to do without the ''ad hominem'' ]. You could be a full Admiral, it still gives you no more weight here than anyone else. (In fact, being military could even be a ]). Anyways, do not make anymore comments about people's personal business. Focus on ]. - ] 08:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

	::::Ok, well since you want to be the end all for this page, what 'image' that can reliably supported besides the ones already shown to support that fact that I provided? (An actual service members wearing said insignia). The military rank insignias, though similar in appearance, are not universal in the DoD, and to try to say otherwise is disingenuous. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 04:23, 11 February 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	::::: ''{{tq\|Ok, well since you want to be the end all for this page}}''". That's what I'm talking about ''right there'', that kind of needless, personal jab. I Haven't made any personal comments about you, why don't you try to do the same. As for the pics you added, anyone can get some ACUs from a surplus shop, stick on insignia they got from eBay and take a photo of themselves. I'm not saying that you did that, but it's the reason WP has a sourcing policy. You need to familiarize yourself with that. You also need to understand how consensus works and why we have that guideline as well. Otherwise, continuing with this is just a waste of time. - ] 16:47, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

	::::::Based on this on page 21, the insignia they provide matches the USA and USAF insignia. --] (]) 09:29, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

	:::::::Isn't it ultimately down to the machinery used by whichever uniform contractor manufactures the badges? I remember seeing both styles in my time in both the Navy and Army. Seems like a pretty petty thing to go to war over. ] (]) 21:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

	==Extremism in the ranks==
	Recent edits regarding including some history of white supremacy in the traditions and culture section. Source is questionable per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Guide_to_addressing_bias

	Citing some incidence in the past of certain beliefs and actions hardly makes it tradition or part of the culture of the organization especially when the organization itself has repeatedly stated that is not the case.

	https://www.npr.org/2020/03/31/824370942/marine-corps-aims-to-tackle-evolving-face-of-white-supremacy

	https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marines-corps-root-out-racism/

	https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2020/0303/U.S.-Marines-lead-charge-in-rooting-out-racism-in-military-ranks <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 17:59, 7 July 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:All three of those sources seem to be supporting the fact that historically the Marine Corps has had a major issue with this, did you read them? Your argument that because the Marine Corps has taken action on these issues the issues never existed in the first place is most peculiar, can you expand on it? ] (]) 18:07, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
	::I agree with the IP editor that the content about extremism/white supremacy doesn't belong under "7.2 Unofficial traditions and customs". But I do think there's been sufficient coverage of the problem for it to be included in the article. I'd suggest its own subsection under "Culture". ] ] 18:44, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
	::: I was trying to fit it into the framework we already had and I didn’t want to make it seem like an officially endorsed part of the corps, a separate subsection is definitely doable. ] (]) 23:10, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
	::::Some re-wording is needed so as not to appear to be painting the entire Corps with the same brush. Would also suggest moving to a new "'''Controversies'''" subsection under culture. (imho) - '']'' 05:46, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

	==Semper Fidelis==

	The article states that this was adopted as the Marine motto in 1883, at the suggestion of the then-Commandant. But why? What led up to this, why then, and why that motto? Some detail would improve the article.

	The article does state that about a third of the Corps left in 1861 and fought against the United States. Was there any contemporary discussion of this when the Corps’ new motto was announced? Again, more detail needed. ] (]) 04:43, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
	:Feel free to ], then. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 09:08, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

	== Mass image removal ==		== Mass image removal ==

	See comments below gallery;		See comments below gallery;
	<center>		<gallery class="center">
	<gallery>
	File:Marine band.jpg\|The Marine Band, dubbed "The President's Own"		File:Marine band.jpg\|The Marine Band, dubbed "The President's Own"

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	File:USMC FA-18 Hornet (alternate).jpg\|McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet of ] over the ]		File:USMC FA-18 Hornet (alternate).jpg\|McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet of ] over the ]
	</gallery>		</gallery>
	</center>

	], fight off Iraqi units on 26 March 2003]]		], fight off Iraqi units on 26 March 2003]]
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	: See the MOS for images, we aren't supposed to have text which is sandwiched between two images... What we had before I edited it down was a comical amount of pictures which made this page look like a drunk teenager had done the layout. ] (]) 15:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC)		: See the MOS for images, we aren't supposed to have text which is sandwiched between two images... What we had before I edited it down was a comical amount of pictures which made this page look like a drunk teenager had done the layout. ] (]) 15:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
	::I'm familiar with mos:img, and I've fixed ''numerous'' pages becuase of that very reason, but I didn't have to remove images to so, there are other options. Perhaps there were too many images and perhaps they were placed poorly, but I didn't contest any of that. I simply posted them here so there is a record, which is commonly done with mass-removals of content, as some people may disagree with which images were removed. - '']'' 00:53, 9 March 2022 (UTC)		::I'm familiar with mos:img, and I've fixed ''numerous'' pages becuase of that very reason, but I didn't have to remove images to so, there are other options. Perhaps there were too many images and perhaps they were placed poorly, but I didn't contest any of that. I simply posted them here so there is a record, which is commonly done with mass-removals of content, as some people may disagree with which images were removed. - '']'' 00:53, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
	:::I considered other options, but there were just too many pictures for anything but either a deep cut or a completely separate gallery. No judgement on ~~image~~ ~~content~~. ] (]) 01:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)		::: As far as I understand images are not content. I considered other options, but there were just too many pictures for anything but either a deep cut or a completely separate gallery. No judgement was made on which to preserve or remove beyond layout. ] (]) 01:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
			::::"''{{tq\|As far as I understand images are not content.}}''" - If you take a look at ], ], ] & ], I believe you'll find images are considered content.
			::::"''{{tq\|No judgement was made on which to preserve or remove beyond layout.}}''" - then all the better to have the images listed here. The article might be better off with some of them included rathed than excluded. - '']'' 03:36, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
			:::::You seem to be conflating two separate uses of content, still not sure what the point of this thread is. The talk page is not the place to create a "visual" record so you should either say your piece or get going. ] (]) 15:52, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
			{{od}} (Seems I missed this.) Here is my "piece": These 12 images, along with this video clip, were removed on 8 March 2022 (by another editor), . Only edit summaries were repeated comments about "sandwiches". I'm posting them all here to have a visual record, as well as a possible starting point for a discussion should anyone wish to talk about this. Anyone not wishing to take part in this thread, needn't post ''at all''. - ] 20:59, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

			== "Crayon Eaters" nickname ==

			There seem to be some contention on whether or not to include "crayon eaters" in the nicknames. Anecdotally, from my own personal experience the term does seem to have a great deal of with one Marine vet even starting a business and the marine corps itself in 2018. The main opposition to its inclusion that I see is that the "crayon eater" nickname is a joke and therefore fundamentally unserious, however i would contend that nicknames suck as "devil dogs" and "leathernecks" that are already included without controversy are similarly unserious. - ] (]) 22:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

			:I removed it because it was unsourced in the article. It seems to be a relatively recent thing, and the other nicknames listed have been around for.decades. None of the sources you cited are adequate to establish noteworthiness, and we'd need several high quality sources for that. ] (]) 00:27, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
			::Fair enough. - ] (]) 00:31, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

			== Capitalization of "Marine" – RFC at ] ==

			Active discussion at ''']''', please join. – ] <small>]</small> 21:25, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

			== So what color berets do they wear? ==

			Beret or hat color is an important way of distinguishing the unit of a soldier. But it is not mentioned in this article. Can this be added to the Uniforms section? ] (]) 13:21, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
			:US Marines don't wear berets. Never have, afaik. - ] 21:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
			::I was there all of 1968. George ducott 805 425 8300 ] (]) 04:19, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

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Mass image removal

See comments below gallery;

The Marine Band, dubbed "The President's Own"
Continental Marines landing at New Providence in March 1776 during the Battle of Nassau, the first amphibious landing of the Marine Corps, during the American Revolutionary War
U.S. Marines leading Arab mercenaries to victory under U.S. Navy Lieutenant William Eaton and U.S. Marine Corps First Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon during the Battle of Derna
U.S. Marines storming Chapultepec castle under a large American flag, paving the way for the fall of Mexico City
The flag of the United States Marine Corps from 1914 to 1939
U.S. Marines from 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines during the Desert Storm deployment in 1990–1991
U.S. Marines conducting a dawn patrol in Afghanistan's Nawa District, Helmand Province, 2010
Two Marines of 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines engaging the enemy during Operation Moshtarak in Afghanistan's Helmand Province
3rd Battalion, 4th Marines loading 120mm mortar rounds during Operation Inherent Resolve in Syria, 2018
Marine recruits on a Squad Rush course
A Marine AH-1Z Viper landing on USS Makin Island in 2010
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet of Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 212 (VMFA-212) over the South China Sea

Bravo Battery, 1st Battalion, 11th Marines, fight off Iraqi units on 26 March 2003

These 12 images, along with this video clip, were removed today (by another editor), with seven consecutive edits over the course of about 30 minutes. Only edit summaries were repeated comments about "sandwiches". I'm posting them all here to have a visual record, as well as a possible starting point for a discussion should anyone wish to talk about this. - wolf 08:04, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

See the MOS for images, we aren't supposed to have text which is sandwiched between two images... What we had before I edited it down was a comical amount of pictures which made this page look like a drunk teenager had done the layout. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm familiar with mos:img, and I've fixed numerous pages becuase of that very reason, but I didn't have to remove images to so, there are other options. Perhaps there were too many images and perhaps they were placed poorly, but I didn't contest any of that. I simply posted them here so there is a record, which is commonly done with mass-removals of content, as some people may disagree with which images were removed. - wolf 00:53, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

As far as I understand images are not content. I considered other options, but there were just too many pictures for anything but either a deep cut or a completely separate gallery. No judgement was made on which to preserve or remove beyond layout. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 01:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

"As far as I understand images are not content." - If you take a look at MOS:IMG, WP:F, WP:NFCC & WP:IUP, I believe you'll find images are considered content.

"No judgement was made on which to preserve or remove beyond layout." - then all the better to have the images listed here. The article might be better off with some of them included rathed than excluded. - wolf 03:36, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

You seem to be conflating two separate uses of content, still not sure what the point of this thread is. The talk page is not the place to create a "visual" record so you should either say your piece or get going. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:52, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

(Seems I missed this.) Here is my "piece": These 12 images, along with this video clip, were removed on 8 March 2022 (by another editor), with seven consecutive edits over the course of about 30 minutes. Only edit summaries were repeated comments about "sandwiches". I'm posting them all here to have a visual record, as well as a possible starting point for a discussion should anyone wish to talk about this. Anyone not wishing to take part in this thread, needn't post at all. - wolf 20:59, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

"Crayon Eaters" nickname

There seem to be some contention on whether or not to include "crayon eaters" in the nicknames. Anecdotally, from my own personal experience the term does seem to have a great deal of cultural significance with one Marine vet even starting a business creating edible crayons and the marine corps itself once referenced the joke in 2018. The main opposition to its inclusion that I see is that the "crayon eater" nickname is a joke and therefore fundamentally unserious, however i would contend that nicknames suck as "devil dogs" and "leathernecks" that are already included without controversy are similarly unserious. - FenrisAureus ▼ (talk) 22:23, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

I removed it because it was unsourced in the article. It seems to be a relatively recent thing, and the other nicknames listed have been around for.decades. None of the sources you cited are adequate to establish noteworthiness, and we'd need several high quality sources for that. BilCat (talk) 00:27, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough. - FenrisAureus ▼ (talk) 00:31, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Capitalization of "Marine" – RFC at WT:MOSCAPS

Active discussion at WT:MOSCAPS#Capitalization of "Marine", please join. – .Raven .talk 21:25, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

So what color berets do they wear?

Beret or hat color is an important way of distinguishing the unit of a soldier. But it is not mentioned in this article. Can this be added to the Uniforms section? FreeFlow99 (talk) 13:21, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

US Marines don't wear berets. Never have, afaik. - wolf 21:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I was there all of 1968. George ducott 805 425 8300 2600:8802:5509:C400:31EA:A22B:BC3D:A3A (talk) 04:19, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

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