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{{tmbox|text='''<u>Note on the article title</u>: Before proposing to change it, please see ], ] and ].'''}} |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 20 July 2024 == |
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== Expansion of Maratha Empire after Shivaji == |
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I am moving the section after the military as it disrupts the flow of the article. Also, it isn't really about Shivaji but the Maratha empire and we have a separate page for the Maratha empire. |
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==James laine== |
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Those idiots write here james laine was academician , they dont know this so called great scholar citing his colleagues's joke as a historical truth , is it worth of a historical facts? is he scholar ? Dare to speak truth if you say you are a scholar. |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2022 please add Maharaj after shivaji it's my request to you. Calling him shivaji is disrespecting him! I hope you understand he was the most beloved king of maharashtra == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Shivaji|answered=yes}} |
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{{edit semi-protected|Shivaji|answered=yes}} |
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] (]) 01:23, 17 February 2022 (UTC) |
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Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj ] (]) 10:42, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 03:23, 17 February 2022 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 10:56, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
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== Lead == |
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Keep "Shivaji". Actually his name was "Shiva" named after Goddess Shivai. "Ji" is already a honorific to him. Calling Pitaji and Mataji (Father and Mother) is not disrespecting them. Calling Gandhiji is not disrespecting ]. ] (]) 09:20, 8 March 2022 (UTC) |
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@] I am one of the principle author of the page. The lead has been written after a lot of discussion and it is more or less same for a few years. You need to look into the achieves. Also, the lead is summary of the article and should include only important events according to the significance and weightage of the event. An enemy calling him 'rat' has no place in lead unless it has any significant relevance and importance. His has been called by dozen of names by different people, should we add them all to the lead? The onus is on you to prove the singificance of it and why it should be included in the lead. ] (]) 15:13, 22 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Please we request you to change our kings name to chatrapati shivaji maharaj on wikipedia == |
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:You seem to be a bit mistaken here. I don't see any mention of a rat or any other title in the portion you removed. ] (]) 15:49, 22 August 2024 (UTC) |
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Please change the name from shivaji to Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj.Because he is people's king and thats why he is chatrapati. ] (]) 16:07, 18 February 2022 (UTC) |
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::@] I am sorry about the rat thing. I mixed it with something else. I checked the source and was going to reply you but I see you have edited your reply removing your unsourced claims. Anyways, the source mentions that he accepted vessel for a period of somewhere from Nov1965 to May 1666 and he was exempted from personal service. Effectively, he was just paying tribute for a few months. I don't find it significant enough to be included in the lead, notwithstanding that it is mentioned out of nowhere in the lead, without explaining the Battle of Purandhar. As Vanamonde93 asked below, we need to assign weightage according to significance of the event and the weightage in the body of the article and the article barely mention this. ] (]) 16:37, 22 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{notdone}} Neither Chatrapati, nor Maharaj, appear to be a part of his name. ], according to our article on the term, is a title. ], is also a title and both apparently mean "great king". --] <small>(])</small> 17:31, 18 February 2022 (UTC) |
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:::I doubt we are on the same page here. Vanamonde agrees with me; he clearly says below that the content is supported by sourcing in the article. A significant part of Shivaji's military career was composed of service to the Mughal Empire, with periods of gaps until his crowning in 1674. You seem to have conveniently ignored all of his other terms. ] (]) 17:12, 22 August 2024 (UTC) |
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::::@] Not everything in the body goes in lead. The ] guidelines says- |
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::::<u>'The The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article.'</u> |
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::::And I don't see why this should be included in lead. We have more important matters like the '<nowiki/>'''Combat with Afhazal Khan'''', which has really high weightage in the article and still couldn't make it to the lead, while the content you wanted to add is barely mentioned in the body. The onus is on you to prove the significance of this over the the topics which have more coverage in article. ] (]) 08:26, 23 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::Shivaji's service (as well as rebellion) to both Bijapur and the Mughals were the most important parts of his military career, not mentioning them would be not giving them due weight in the lead. The current lead is not a good lead at all, and seems to focus too much on his administration, even though Shivaji was a king for only six years; while the rest of his military career for twenty-eight years, i.e., almost three decades, is completely ignored in the first paragraph, which only seems to completely ignore almost all of Shivaji's career except the last six years. ] (]) 11:59, 23 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:I came here to say the same: appears only to refer to vassalage, which is at least supported by sourcing in the body. ] (]) 15:56, 22 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2024 == |
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]) - Pope is a title and there are pages referring to the respective Pope with a title before their first name. A similar rationale in this case can be applied to have the name Chhatrapati Shivaji as the page title. ] (]) 07:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Shivaji|answered=yes}} |
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], ] and ], Keep "Shivaji". Actually his name was "Shiva" named after Goddess Shivai. "Ji" is already a honorific to him. Many rulers-related articles are simply-named such as ], ], ] etc. Even Hindu gods have simply-named articles, see ], ], ], ] etc. Pope is a "religious" title though, can not be compared with "royal" case here, see ], ] etc. |
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In the article there should have title which is 'Chhatrapati' with the name of Shivaji Maharaj. Also you should have written Maharaj after Shivaji as it shows respect towards the man who is people's true king not the King of any piece of land. So my humble request towards you to make this correction in your article as this not about any other king or emperor but about the man who faught for the justice for the people. Thank you. ] (]) 07:46, 29 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> see FAQ ] (]) 08:53, 29 August 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2024 == |
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Having said this I will strongly bat for uniformity across all rulers-related articles and religious figures-related articles. For eg, ] should be changed to simply ] and ] should be changed to ] as in ], ]. ] (]) 09:05, 8 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Vatsmaxed|Amitized}} I think there is some sort of exception for popes and saints (not sure why that is the case and someone should probably petition for that exception to be dropped). Queen Victoria is an exception for royalty (see ], ], and (closer to home) ]). Compared to, say ] or ], Shivaji is probably of lesser importance and it is hard to see how we can make an exception for him. I agree with Vatsmaxed that ] should be renamed to something like ] but that's not a battle I'm willing to take up. --] <small>(])</small> 12:52, 8 March 2022 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Shivaji|answered=yes}} |
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:] <small>(])</small>, Even the University in ] where Shivaji's descendants ruled until 1947 was named ] in 1962, without the prefix and the suffix. The use of prefix and suffix is a recent phenomenon, and probably coincides with the rise of the Shiv sena party.Thanks.] (]) 16:26, 8 March 2022 (UTC) |
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In the "commemorations" section, in "The headquarters in Mumbai of the Western Railway zone, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, was renamed Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus in 1996.", the headquarters is of Central Railways, not Western Railways. <ref>https://cr.indianrailways.gov.in/view_section.jsp?lang=0&id=0,6,1974</ref> |
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Also, it has been furthur renamed to "Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Terminus" in 2017. |
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:] and ], Agree with you completely. Even popes and saints should have honorific removed from their names. When it can be simply ] (and not Jesus Christ) or ] (and not Prophet Muhammad) or ], ], ], ] etc who definitely hold higher position in their respective religions THAN popes, saints, kings and any other, no pope, saint and king should have honorifics to their names. Which makes me to think that a Misplaced Pages-wide discussion needs to be started to remove the honorifics. I will try to propose the same after finding about process. But it also makes me wonder whether (Since Shiva is actual name and not Shivaji, ji being a honorific), should ] be renamed to ] (not ]) in contrast to ]. ] (]) 05:12, 11 March 2022 (UTC) |
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<ref>https://www.hindustantimes.com/mumbai-news/mumbai-travellers-cst-is-now-chhatrapati-shivaji-maharaj-terminus/story-ZZbzAnvvu1leBPZCRQwmtM.html</ref> |
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:: As far as I can tell, that was his name and the ji is not a mere honorofic. Regardless, Shivaji is the name used consistently by historians so that's what we should use. --] <small>(])</small> 03:08, 13 March 2022 (UTC) |
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<ref>https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/mumbai-railway-station-renamed-to-chhatrapati-shivaji-maharaj-terminus/articleshow/59390999.cms</ref> ] (]) 13:11, 17 November 2024 (UTC) |
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: {{re|RegentsPark}} the name is 'SHIVAJI' as mentioned in , BUT the mentions on page 30 that the 'ji' is an HONORIFIC Syllable usually added to the name as it is considered auspicious - being derived from the root either "jiv"- to live OR "ji"- to conquer. <span style="font-family:Cursive">''']''' ]</span> 16:26, 13 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:Done. ] (]) 06:40, 18 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::It doesn't really matter. I roughly scanned the sources and couldn't find a single one that doesn't refer to him as Shivaji. No one, apparently, uses Shiva. So, Shivaji it is! --] <small>(])</small> 02:58, 14 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:::correct. <span style="font-family:Cursive">''']''' ]</span> 11:21, 14 March 2022 (UTC) |
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== History == |
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Shivaji had 8 wife's ] (]) 14:57, 19 February 2022 (UTC) |
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: Can you cite a realible source? ] (]) 15:54, 19 February 2022 (UTC) |
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== Shivaji maharaj == |
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Shivaji maharaj ] (]) 06:11, 27 February 2022 (UTC) |
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== King's surname == |
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Bhosle |
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Not a bhonsle ] (]) 11:54, 2 March 2022 (UTC) |
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== request you to rectify the mistake regarding the name of a Historical personality mentioned in the Title and Description/informational paragraphs == |
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Dear Misplaced Pages Team and Users of Misplaced Pages, |
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First, I declare that I do not have any intentions to hurt sentiments to any community, I would like you to understand the point, in order to enable you to take actions to change your article so that your articles will become truely unbiased, more sensible, more adhered to the Same common rule, more logically accurate, and will show the same amount of respects towards all these great personalities, irrespective of the name of thes personalities people generally use. I will put my point with the help of facts and Logic and also would like to have an answer reciprocated the same way. |
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I would like to draw your kind attention to the details behind which I couldn't understand the reason and/or Logic. |
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There are some personalities about whome people have high regards, and wikipedia serves as the source of information of almost all of them for people wanting to know about them. So, I also sense that, its Misplaced Pages's responsibility to display the information for all these Personalities, with same logic/rule/reason. and if it is not being done, then as a User of Misplaced Pages, its our responsibility to show Misplaced Pages the mistakes, by having discussion with all you people. |
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Having said all of these, considering the logic/rule/reason that applies to the title (Name) of the article of many of these powerful and influential historical personalities, I would like to request you to rectify the Title of article called "Shivaji", by replacing it with "Chhatrapati Shivaji" ,as well as replacing all "Shivaji" by "Chhatrapati Shivaji" wherever it is mentioned, in the whole article, the links etc. as it is not as per your Rule/Logic/Reason set to mention the names of these Personalities. |
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There are many example of the titles of the wikipedia Articles that I can share with you to prove my point, but I will share 2 here. |
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1. the article titled "Maharana Pratap" - In the whole article, "Maharana Pratap" was mentioned respectfully as "Maharana Pratap" and as per the information stated in the article, "Maharana Pratap" was honored as "Maharana" when he was coronated and announced as a King of Mewad region. So, "Maharana" was an honorary term, respectfully used for him, and I think, nothing is wrong in usinh it. Similarly "Chhatrapati Shivaji" was coronated as a "Chhatrapati" in 1674, and here "Chhatrapati" was also an honorary term for him, still, all over in his article, he was referred as "Shivaji" and not "Chhatrapati Shivaji", and this is clearly a contradictory. |
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2. the article titled "Mahatma Gandhi" - "Mahatma" here in this article, hold same importance as an honorary term for "Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi" and "Mahatma Gandhi" is respectfully used all over in this article. |
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so according to these example and the articles, The article "Shivaji" must be published with the corrections stated above, to rectify this descripency. |
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I would like to here your opinions about this. ] (]) 03:33, 11 March 2022 (UTC) |
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== Such deeply mention of affiliation with ANY political party should be removed Suggestion == |
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"Shivaji is upheld as an example by the Hindu nationalist ], and also of the Maratha caste dominated Congress parties in Maharashtra, such as the ] and the ]." |
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] (]) 04:23, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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: I don't see any problem here. It is sourced from a relible source. The 'an exmple' seems un-encylcopedic. I am changing it. ] (]) 11:41, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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== Too much hagiography content, can be trimmed as mentioned below : See ], ] ] tagging == |
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"In modern times, Shivaji is considered as a national hero in India, especially in the state of Maharashtra, where he remains arguably the greatest figure in the state's history. Stories of his life form an integral part of the upbringing and identity of the ]. Further, he is also recognised as a warrior legend, who sowed the seeds of Indian independence." |
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'''Above line can be replaced with a one-liner:''' "In modern times, Shivaji is considered as a national hero in the state of Maharashtra."] (]) 07:31, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:{{U|RegentsPark}}, please look into it.] (]) 07:31, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:: We have a whole book for the influnce Shivaji carries in life of Marathi and maharashtrian people - James W. Laine's- Shivaji, Hindu King in Islamic India. So it is due in the article. Also his importance in Indian independence movement is also well documented. |
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:: PS: I have removed the last sentence as it is covered elsewhere in the article. ] (]) 12:14, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:::1886 was when the first war of Indian independence was fought, whereas shivaji died in the year 1680; it's a difference of 200 years! Wars he fought were to expand his "maratha kingdom", It has got '''nothing to do with the indian independence''' for godsakes! ] (]) 08:06, 22 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:::: I was expecting better from you. ] (]) 11:13, 22 March 2022 (UTC) |
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== Change in name == |
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It's not Shivaji it's *chatrapati shivaji maharaj* ] (]) 11:38, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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: Please see ]. According to the policy the use of honorifics along with a name is discouraged. ] (]) 11:45, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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== james laine and his coterie== |
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Idiots , james laine was criticised for his non sense jokes and not his scholarship , are you people afraid of truth <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:02, 21 March 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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''' |
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'''if any one of you dare to speak of history then edit this para''' |
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''' |
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In 2003, American academic James W. Laine published his book Shivaji: Hindu King in Islamic India, which was followed by heavy criticism, including threats of arrest. As a result of this publication, the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute in Pune where Laine had researched was attacked by a group of Maratha activists calling itself the Sambhaji Brigade. The book was banned in Maharashtra in January 2004, but the ban was lifted by the Bombay High Court in 2007, and in July 2010 the Supreme Court of India upheld the lifting of the ban. This lifting was followed by public demonstrations against the author and the decision of the Supreme Court. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:05, 21 March 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:I am aware of it. It needs a bit expansion with details. Will do once I get some free time. Need to find reliable sources. ] (]) 18:54, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:] applies for Laine, a gentle reminder. ] (]) 19:20, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:: ], I didn't understand. I am aware of BLP but... Can you elaborate a little more? ] (]) 05:11, 22 March 2022 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2022 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Shivaji|answered=yes}} |
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Change name from Shivaji to Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj ] (]) 20:26, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> See explanation of honorifics above. ] (]) 20:32, 21 March 2022 (UTC) |
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== Change the name == |
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== Legecy - Inspiration : political party ? == |
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Change the name to "chhatrapati shavaji maharaj" it shows respect towards the king. ] (]) 19:46, 2 January 2025 (UTC) |
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Why this political info or misinformation on this article in legecy section ? Most of these parties use The Great Chatrapati Shivaji Maharaj's name for gain vote and for political mileage, I suggest to remove that propoganda info immediately from this biography article. This info can be written on ], ] and NCP's article but it's not appropriate to include here. Or make a seperate article and describe, how when a political party used Shivaji I name for their gain.] (]) 11:07, 23 March 2022 (UTC) |
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: {{notdone}}. Please see ]. ] (]) 20:29, 2 January 2025 (UTC) |
In the article there should have title which is 'Chhatrapati' with the name of Shivaji Maharaj. Also you should have written Maharaj after Shivaji as it shows respect towards the man who is people's true king not the King of any piece of land. So my humble request towards you to make this correction in your article as this not about any other king or emperor but about the man who faught for the justice for the people. Thank you. 2409:4081:1206:E43A:1E1:671:7337:ACDD (talk) 07:46, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
In the "commemorations" section, in "The headquarters in Mumbai of the Western Railway zone, a UNESCO World Heritage Site, was renamed Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus in 1996.", the headquarters is of Central Railways, not Western Railways.
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